Power Weaver - Too much Ferocity?

I was messing around on gw2skills build editor yesterday and I noticed that as a power weaver you can push nearly 35% more crit damage from Furocity with their grandmaster trait "Elements of Rage". That's a 35% crit damage increase across all criticals. This seems too good to be true? It converts 14% of your power to ferocity meaing your crit damage is sitting near 270% self buffed vs 235% without weaver.

I'm assuming there's going to be some major changes when the expansion drops and I'm guessing this trait might be brought down from 14% to at least 7% or completely change it to give ferocity based on a different stat, such as Precision like Ferocious Winds.

Build LinkI didn't dive deep into this and these numbers are only based on the gw2skills.net build editor and it's math.

It only works when single-attuned, which isn't bad if you can camp an element. When you bring another element in, you lose the buff. Theorycrafting, you can get a lot of power damage built up if someone has perma-swiftness on you, perma-weakness on your target, and you can camp a single element.

@mygamingid.5816 said:It only works when single-attuned, which isn't bad if you can camp an element. When you bring another element in, you lose the buff. Theorycrafting, you can get a lot of power damage built up if someone has perma-swiftness on you, perma-weakness on your target, and you can camp a single element.

Are you sure, did you test this?The reason why I ask is because of the wording of the trait.

Gain a damage bonus for a period of time when attuned to a single element. Gain ferocity based on a percentage of your power.

The ferocity part is a sentence in it's own while the first sentence specifically states you gain a base damage bonus while fully attuned for eight seconds.Based on the wording of this trait it sounds like the ferocity gain is a permanent buff.

@DoM.8396 said:

@mygamingid.5816 said:It only works when single-attuned, which isn't bad if you can camp an element. When you bring another element in, you lose the buff. Theorycrafting, you can get a lot of power damage built up if someone has perma-swiftness on you, perma-weakness on your target, and you can camp a single element.

Gain a damage bonus for a period of time when attuned to a single element. Gain ferocity based on a percentage of your power.

i really like to know that too, but actually on gw2 skills the bonus is active even when we are not single attuned so it seems as a permanent buff

@DoM.8396 said:The ferocity part is a sentence in it's own while the first sentence specifically states you gain a base damage bonus while fully attuned for eight seconds.Based on the wording of this trait it sounds like the ferocity gain is a permanent buff.

It does appear that the Ferocity bonus is permanent, while the damage bonus is not.

If you're assuming raid meta boons, drop Air for Arcane (1-2-3) and camp Fire. You'll get a 2% damage bump per boon type on you, plus the 10% bump for single-element EoR (for 8s) and 150 Power for being in Fire. You'll be at 4200+ Might with full boons in Fire. On crit, both Burning Precision and Arcane Precision will have a 33% chance to proc burning, which will do decent damage with 25 stacks of Might and condi raid boons.

If you're assuming self-generated boons, then trait Fire 1-1-2 for extremely easy Might stacking. If you can guarantee 6+ boon types active, trait Arcane 1-2-3. If not, trait Air 3-1-1. You shouldn't be in Air much as a Staff Ele unless you need CCs.

Ferocity buff is permanent, the damage buff only applies itself after you go into a single attunement. Something like fresh air on that could be very powerful as you'd be able to attune to single elements (namely air) quite often.

"Elements of rage" does indeed increase ferocity by 14% permanently, the bonus dmg come with full attunement, the numbers are completely in line with what seen on other professions

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retributive_Armorhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_Strike_(trait)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ferocious_(Archetype)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twin_Fangshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blood_Reaction

Not at all, if we look at the traits above, they're all adept/master tier, would "Element of Rage" be nerfed, then it should be moved to adept or master tier also

The Ferocity buff is permanent. Tested in beta.

A minor trait in Air gives 7%. It's only fitting that a Grand Master trait gives 14%.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ferocious_Winds

In addition, the trait also works directly against the concept of Weaver itself. You lose your dual skills when singly attuned.

The bonus damage lasts for 8 seconds after single attunement swapping. Attunement swapping has a 4 sec cd it's a great damage mod overall.

@mygamingid.5816 said:It only works when single-attuned, which isn't bad if you can camp an element. When you bring another element in, you lose the buff. Theorycrafting, you can get a lot of power damage built up if someone has perma-swiftness on you, perma-weakness on your target, and you can camp a single element.

Elements of Rage has an 8 second duration, assuming GW2 Wiki's tooltip info is accurate. So you'll get the buff for 8 seconds upon attuning to one element (say, Fire/Fire) but if you camp that element it will wear off with no way to reapply. So I guess in a power/ferocity DPS build, you're encouraged to swap to single elements and then out again as quickly as the cooldown will allow.

FYI, stat conversion traits only count base+equipment stats. Temporary changes like Might won't increase Ferocity.

@Thiazi.1250 said:FYI, stat conversion traits only count base+equipment stats. Temporary changes like Might won't increase Ferocity.

This makes more sense and gw2skills confused me. Thank you!

Although, even without might we still gain ~28% more critical damage from this trait with berserker equipment w/ power infusions on top of the damage buffs that also come with other weaver traits.If you add banner of discipline and/or Assassin's presence ferocity to that we're still getting a huge increase in crit damage. Renegade is looking like it will have a spot in raiding meaning Assassin's presence will finally see some use.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out when they release PoF.

@Sunshine.5014 said:The Ferocity buff is permanent. Tested in beta.

A minor trait in Air gives 7%. It's only fitting that a Grand Master trait gives 14%.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ferocious_Winds

In addition, the trait also works directly against the concept of Weaver itself. You lose your dual skills when singly attuned.

yer, it is kind of wierd that it isn't bonus when double attuned instead of single attuned. as you say it kind of goes against the idea of the weaver.think more of the traits should heavily buff the dual cast aspect or attunement switching.

But dose the power from might effect the ferocity? The builder is very messed up for its numbers for the new classes effect so a lot of its numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt. Best to look at the builder atm for pure "look and see what you could build from the line" then max min your numbers.

@DoM.8396 said:

@Thiazi.1250 said:FYI, stat conversion traits only count base+equipment stats. Temporary changes like Might won't increase Ferocity.

If you equip berserker for 28% more critical damage and drop the griever in a condi boosting expansion, this 28% more critical damage will cost you a lot less overall DPS (not that 28% crit damage is a lot, considering the mechanic of the trait). You will notice very soon that these 28% means nothing if your damage output is lower. I understand that you may like power weaver a lot and you don't want to play anything else, but it just won't be as effective as a hybrid weaver. And I think that with berserker, even if it was 50% crit boost, it won't bring you anywhere close to a pve meta.

Now if you take griever, which is the one logical stats for a PVE weaver, you face even less critical damage boost.

The trait is completely normal and making it less will make it underpowered.

P.S The pve meta will be weaver+arcane+fire , with griever ;)

@bOTEB.1573 said:

@DoM.8396 said:

@Thiazi.1250 said:FYI, stat conversion traits only count base+equipment stats. Temporary changes like Might won't increase Ferocity.

You need context to make these comparisons. Sure, there are weapon sets where a hybrid weaver will outperform the power weaver on the same weapon. However that isn't really relevant when talking about meta. You need to compare it to the best possible power setup, which currently is staff. Hybrid staff weaver won't be a thing, that's for sure. You don't get enough condi applications on staff for that. So it's a question of "is sw/d, d/d or sc/d hybrid weaver going to beat a) power staff weaver, and b) power staff tempest"? We can't quite answer that yet. Compared to Tempest, the Weaver gets some pretty nice damage modifiers and stat boosts, both power and condi, but trades the very strong Overloads for a number of skills, most of them situational (especially in the context of PvE meta). It might end up a close call.

weather d/d or s/d

Here is the meta, no need to compare anything I saw enough with exotic gear on the dummy without infusions and food, self-buffed, 36k DPS average

mixing Condi, power, precision, and ferocity to come closer to griever

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYnMIClNg1MAmMAM5iFBArYT2EPDBBgCwD4eVHrv1A-jxhAQBQ7BAIV9AwY/Buq+DAOBArVJoZV+tOQA4dA8//38////LFgfKtA-e

@bOTEB.1573 said:weather d/d or s/d

Here is the meta, no need to compare anything I saw enough with exotic gear on the dummy without infusions and food, self-buffed, 36k DPS average

mixing Condi, power, precision, and ferocity to come closer to griever

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYnMIClNg1MAmMAM5iFBArYT2EPDBBgCwD4eVHrv1A-jxhAQBQ7BAIV9AwY/Buq+DAOBArVJoZV+tOQA4dA8//38////LFgfKtA-e

consider that you cant camp fire as in the current viper tempest, so you have to invest also in bleed duration to maximixe the condi damage

@Leggendalex.4659 said:

@bOTEB.1573 said:weather d/d or s/d

Here is the meta, no need to compare anything I saw enough with exotic gear on the dummy without infusions and food, self-buffed, 36k DPS average

mixing Condi, power, precision, and ferocity to come closer to griever

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYnMIClNg1MAmMAM5iFBArYT2EPDBBgCwD4eVHrv1A-jxhAQBQ7BAIV9AwY/Buq+DAOBArVJoZV+tOQA4dA8//38////LFgfKtA-e

Didn't have problems with it. Bleeding has longer duration compared to fire, but with Weaver's Prowess, it wasn't even stressful to keep it up. Considering that Grinding Stone has 6 bleed duration, the lowest of all, with the trait it's 7.2. The fire was more problematic.

Don't forget that for Elements of Rage, the damage buff you get for being in a single attunement lasts 8secs. So as long as you single attune once per 8secs you'll maintain the buff 100% of the time.

I've seen most of the theorycrafted rotations using rotations that fully attune every 2nd swap so this should be no problem with a 4sec(3.5 arcane) attunement CD.

For condi, as an example it'll most likely be:F/F, F/E, E/E, E/F and back to F/F to start over.

@bOTEB.1573 said:weather d/d or s/d

Here is the meta, no need to compare anything I saw enough with exotic gear on the dummy without infusions and food, self-buffed, 36k DPS average

mixing Condi, power, precision, and ferocity to come closer to griever

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYnMIClNg1MAmMAM5iFBArYT2EPDBBgCwD4eVHrv1A-jxhAQBQ7BAIV9AwY/Buq+DAOBArVJoZV+tOQA4dA8//38////LFgfKtA-eHi ~ I appreciate your input.

37k DPS is what a Staff Tempest can push already on a large hitbox. The base damage buffs from Weaver minus Overloads from Tempest could push a Power Staff Weaver past that value. You use the word "meta" too lightly. There is no PoF meta yet simply because when the expansion is released there will be major balance changes to everything we have seen with the new elite specs rendering most speculation about what is and isn't meta useless.

We aren't here to discuss which stats will be better for Weaver; this is a discussion about how a Power Staff Tempest switched to a Power Staff Weaver could be overpowered with how powerful Elements of Rage currently is on top of the other base damage buffs that come with Weaver... but let me queue in while we're at it.

My only argument that supports Grieving stats is that we have seen Viper work in the meta meaning Grieving could defiantly be a meta stat choice but I have my doubts.

• Power builds rely on 3 stats to maximize its output; Power, Precision, Ferocity.
• Condi builds rely on 2 stats to maximize its output; Condition Damage, Expertise.

Because Grieving has major Power and Condition Damage and minor Precision and Ferocity I am hesitant to say it will be a meta choice for weaver. It is weak in Critical Chance and Critical Damage and Condition Duration. Time will tell how it works out and I hope we get to play with something new other than Berserker or Viper in the future meta.

The loss of overload going to cut back the dmg on weaver and ele in pve more then like i hope this ferocity makes up for it sadly power dmg is very lack luster these days. Wvw it may have a real use for staff and scpter ele and the very picked aimed sword/x.

@DoM.8396 said:

@bOTEB.1573 said:weather d/d or s/d

Here is the meta, no need to compare anything I saw enough with exotic gear on the dummy without infusions and food, self-buffed, 36k DPS average

mixing Condi, power, precision, and ferocity to come closer to griever

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYnMIClNg1MAmMAM5iFBArYT2EPDBBgCwD4eVHrv1A-jxhAQBQ7BAIV9AwY/Buq+DAOBArVJoZV+tOQA4dA8//38////LFgfKtA-e

Hi ~ I appreciate your input.

But not self-buffed. Though to be honest I'm taking this statement with a grain of salt. Even if weaver can do 36k self-buffed, that's most likely not intended and will be nerfed fast.

@Jski.6180 said:The loss of overload going to cut back the dmg on weaver and ele in pve more then like i hope this ferocity makes up for it sadly power dmg is very lack luster these days. Wvw it may have a real use for staff and scpter ele and the very picked aimed sword/x.

We hold the same hopes..like every other player who plays wvw/pvp and some pve, players who dislike raids basically. This class has been heavily nerfed already

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The loss of overload going to cut back the dmg on weaver and ele in pve more then like i hope this ferocity makes up for it sadly power dmg is very lack luster these days. Wvw it may have a real use for staff and scpter ele and the very picked aimed sword/x.

I think the loss of overloads will be hard at first but I'm confident we will fill the gap with other abilities or element switching more often like a base power elementalist would (not tempest) in order to keep the 8 second damage buff active. I am a Elementalist at heart and my biggest concern is if they add this trait and a Power Weaver blows off the charts for DPS, they will nerf us again. I'm fearful the nerfs will be done incorrectly as they have been in the past (in some areas) with Elementalist by nerfing or reworking abilities that didn't seem overpowered.

If Weaver causes us, as Elementalist, to do absurd Power DPS what else will they look to nerf? We won't have Air Overload anymore to "blame" and Lava Font already has it's awkward cooldown. If they go after our weapon abilities I will be very disappointed.

Why would they go after other abilities and traits instead of Elements of Rage? Well, because Elements of Rage is obviously designed with weaver in mind being some sort of either full condi or condi/power hybrid. I say obvious because you can see it in the design and weapon skills with Sword. This trait might be very valid if you're playing Weaver the way the developer hopes that we play it using this mixed stat ideology. The developer might want to keep from nerfing this trait so the exact idea of the Weaver continues to work and resort to bringing down the base abilities of Elementalist, or even other traits outside of Weaver. If this happens it makes it extremely difficult for other builds outside of Weaver to have a place in the meta across all game types.

Let's just finish this off with - I'm paranoid Elementalist will be nerfed/reworked past the point of where I enjoy playing it anymore. I took a hard hit when Scepter/Warhorn got drastically dropped down in its damage output.