PvP based Chronomancer change suggestions

Why this thread?

These change suggestions are made with the assumption IP and/or distortion won't come back to Chronomancer.The change suggestions also affect a lot of core specializations as well as core utilities. However, they shouldn't have a big affect on Core Mesmer and Mirage and the reason will quickly become clear after seeing the change suggestions.Reminder: Numbers are subjected to change, they are just there for showing the idea.

Trait changes

Escape Artist: Decoy, Mirror Images, Phantasmal Defender and Phantasmal Disenchanter gain 20% cooldown reduction. Clones gain 6 seconds of protection when shattered.

Protected Phantasms: There are two suggestions (choose-one) for this trait.1) (My recommendation) Summoned phantasms have 20% more health and spawn with 6 seconds of Retaliation.2) Summoned phantasms spawn with 5 seconds of Protection.

Mental Defense: After summoning a phantasm, 20% of the damage you take is transferred to your youngest phantasm for 3 seconds.

Phantasmal Force: Summoned phantasms spawn with 2 stacks of Might for 8 seconds. Phantasms deal 5% (3% in PvE) increased damage for every stack of Might they have.

Time Splitter: In addition to previous effects, this trait reduces recharge of Signet of Illusions by 25%.

All's Well That Ends Well: Wells heal (0.3) allies when placed and after they end (0.5). Wells gain 20% recharge reduction.

Lost Time: Interrupting an enemy slows (1.25 seconds) and damages (0.7) them. This attack cannot critically hit.

Seize the Moment: Gain the ability to use Tides of Time sideways and backwards. Shield skills gain 20% recharge reduction.

Illusionary Reversion: Split Second and Rewinder generate a clone when used. 3 seconds cooldown.

Delayed Reactions: Disabling a foe applies slow for 1 second. This skill affects foes with Defiance Bars once every 3 seconds (no interval in PvP and WvW).

Chronophantasma: The first time a phantasm would become a clone, it instead resummons itself and attacks again. Resummoned phantasms are dazed for 0.75 seconds and inflict 80% (in all game modes) of the original's damage. This trait increases all phantasm recharges by 15%.

Utility skill changes

Phantasmal Defender: 40 seconds cooldown. Taunt nearby enemies and block incoming attacks for 6 seconds. Grant nearby allies 3 seconds of aegis for every blocked attack, 2 seconds of interval per ally. Blocking an attack deals damage to the attacker (0.3 or 0.4 coefficient, basically lowish damage).

Well of Precognition: Break stun. Instant cast. 35 seconds cooldown. Create a well that makes allies take 50% reduced damage and condition damage.

Shatter changes

Continuum Split: Base cooldown is reduced to 35 seconds. This skill's recharge is increased by 33% of original recharges' of skills used during Time Anchored. Time Anchored now reduces Power and Condition Damage by 20%.

I hate having to bump my own thread up, but I want Anet to see this.

chronophantasma too strong.lost time is a joke version of LR, funnily it needs to be bad becouse we are mesmer, and mesmer cant have things that are OP :D, it would deal MORE damage, CAN crit, LONGER condition and on CC not interrupt, lol.whats the point of nerfing delayed reactions? entire point of this trait in pvp is to CC and burst to get the crit chance and dmg from other trait, it just makes the bad trait worse.Community wont agree on phantasms with retal, and frankly as do I, entire point of phantasms is to make them stronger then normal skills but in turn have more counterplay, too bad memer class got overnerfed and its kinda shitty version of other skills with more counterplay now :DI like the CS idea, but then again, its what I wanted done with it in the first place.Illusionary Reversion would make shattering possible, interesting change.I like most of them but I suspect chrono would still be shit due to no F4, any condi build and you have to go for cleansing mantra, half decent thief and you dont get to play the game...

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:chronophantasma too strong.It's easily adjustable by changing numbers around imo.

lost time is a joke version of LR, funnily it needs to be bad becouse we are mesmer, and mesmer cant have things that are OP :D, it would deal MORE damage, CAN crit, LONGER condition and on CC not interrupt, lol.LR is the peak of "on-interrupt" traits even if it's not "on-interrupt" itself. Take a look at PB in mesmer and PI in thief.The reason it's meh is because mesmer gets both PB and LT, if they go the interrupt route.

whats the point of nerfing delayed reactions? entire point of this trait in pvp is to CC and burst to get the crit chance and dmg from other trait, it just makes the bad trait worse.It's actually buffed by removing the interval so it procs on every CC instead of being once per 3 seconds :p

Community wont agree on phantasms with retal, and frankly as do I, entire point of phantasms is to make them stronger then normal skills but in turn have more counterplay, too bad memer class got overnerfed and its kinda kitten version of other skills with more counterplay now :DI love how you type mesmer as memer lol. The reason to give phantasms retaliation is for Persistance of Memory, so you get the retal as well.Phantasms can be countered with AoE cc or dodging.

I like most of themThanks!

but I suspect chrono would still be kitten due to no F4, any condi build and you have to go for cleansing mantra, half decent thief and you dont get to play the game...It will still be bad, but at least you could go phantasm-boon stuff.

What does chrono need? answer is simple : Countless suggestions :)

! What is the most important imo:! Self-shatter returned while obviously tone down bonuses from shatters (like ~10% dmg to slowed enemies; -2s to recharge on clone being shatter for F2; F3 the same).! Rework LOST TIME to not being useless garbage trait.! Make alacrity that affect chrono to be 50% without penalty baseline (merge into minor trait)! Its hilarious to make chrono dependant on SLOW without SLOW access... What did they smoke idk! Edit: not allow elite to be recharged by split (so they finally can be buffed, 180s cd is an overkill and its only cuz of SPLIT) and reduce split recharge to ~60-70s.

@Odik.4587 said:What does chrono need? answer is simple : Countless suggestions :)

! What is the most important imo:! Self-shatter returned while obviously tone down bonuses from shatters (like ~10% dmg to slowed enemies; -2s to recharge on clone being shatter for F2; F3 the same).! Rework LOST TIME to not being useless garbage trait.! Make alacrity that affect chrono to be 50% without penalty baseline (merge into minor trait)! Its hilarious to make chrono dependant on SLOW without SLOW access... What did they smoke idk

Useless traits would still be useless. I don't think IP will be back so I tried to workaround it.

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Odik.4587 said:What does chrono need? answer is simple : Countless suggestions :)

! What is the most important imo:! Self-shatter returned while obviously tone down bonuses from shatters (like ~10% dmg to slowed enemies; -2s to recharge on clone being shatter for F2; F3 the same).! Rework LOST TIME to not being useless garbage trait.! Make alacrity that affect chrono to be 50% without penalty baseline (merge into minor trait)! Its hilarious to make chrono dependant on SLOW without SLOW access... What did they smoke idk

What Chrono needs is the removal of Chronophantasma and Continuum split then going back to ground zero and making into a support spec while giving Illusionary Persona back.

Then a lot of little tweaks across the trait lines. To put it bluntly it needs a lot of work to not be something stupidly strong or completely rubbish.

@apharma.3741 said:What Chrono needs is the removal of Chronophantasma and Continuum split

Those two are really problematic, yeah, but nothing unsolvable. My solution is in the original post if you haven't read it.

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:What Chrono needs is the removal of Chronophantasma and Continuum split

I read your suggestions but neither deal with doubling of effects. Example: Phantasmal Disenchanter, removes 5 boons from 3 foes, then it does it again and removes another 5, those enemies are now boonless and could have nullified a lot of skills by a single cast.

This is also the problem with Continuum Split, it's an interesting suggestion but the reality is you'd then use Continuum Split to double up on that 1 powerful ability that secures kills and deal with the 50-60s CD it puts CS on, like gravity well. I can see gravity well being "spammed" a lot because while it doesn't do damage it's still a lot of CC and a sure kill if the enemy doesn't have a stunbreak...or 2 because you can double up on it. That means bait 1-2 stunbreaks and the enemy is dead.

1. Revert self-shatter (and the new shatter effects).
2. Remove chronophantasma.

Anything else is pointless, this is the only way to make chrono fun.

@"apharma.3741" said:This is also the problem with Continuum Split, it's an interesting suggestion but the reality is you'd then use Continuum Split to double up on that 1 powerful ability that secures kills and deal with the 50-60s CD it puts CS on, like gravity well. I can see gravity well being "spammed" a lot because while it doesn't do damage it's still a lot of CC and a sure kill if the enemy doesn't have a stunbreak...or 2 because you can double up on it. That means bait 1-2 stunbreaks and the enemy is dead.

As I said, numbers can change. Maybe CS takes 50% of recharge instead of 33%.

Phantasmal Disenchanter is the only phantasm that would be too strong with Chronophantasma. It is already strong without it.

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

It's more that because chrono can double up on anything then anything it can double up on has to be garbage to not make Chrono insanely strong. Remember Phantasm Chrono? All those phantasms were OK without Chrono but because of Chrono phantasma every phantasm it used is poo.

So yes, I'd rather Chrono be unusable if the rest of the class and other elite specs (we know another is coming) can actually have decent utility skills.

Edit: However my preferred choice is to remove the ability to double up and boost alacrity gains for Chrono. This provides CDR without running a foul of doubling up.Chrono Phantasma could give you alacrity for every phantasm you summon.Continuum Split could give you alacrity based on number of clones shattered.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

Turns Chrono from a "higher skill ceiling than core" spec into a simple lower cds- lower punishment for cd wastes- lower skill ceiling skill spam monster, gg. CS at least is active gameplay, gives more combos and adds for that skill cieling, makes a big difference between a good and a bad Chrono. Just some lower cds in a very passive way (ok you click one button to apply the boon or effect of alacrtity but that is not rly highering the skill ceiling remarkable, all other ways to get alacrity just happen as a side effect from spamming other skills for other purposes and are for that active-passive in a way not adding skill ceiling). Overall you just give Chrono lower cds without adding any skill ceiling. That is clearly worse than the CS mechanic.

My PoV still is, that stat penalty can do the job without turning Chrono into something completely different would need a rename, by keeping its interesting and higher skill ceiling main mechanic (CS) and without making it unplayable by contradicting basic mechanics of the class or elite spec itself. If Chrono has to give up dmg and sustain for some lower cds on utilities, like a strong double boon remove on the utility phantasm or double moa than this is a fair trade off and no balance issue anymore.

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

I think I have said it before but you simply overrate continuum split. It is not really much different from having a different form (shroud, rampage, CA), but instead of getting different skills you get to use your regular skills.

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

Also i totally agree, that apharma overrates CS and in general overrates problems caused by adding more skills to a skill ensemble but there is a little difference: When balancing core skills you always have to think about how strong they can be when Chrono can double them. When you get different skills like in Rampage you can just balance Rampage skills seperately. Means Chrono needs a trade off for the double of core traits if you want to avoid weaker core skills due to Chrono existence. Or we give Chrono differnt skills in CS, like a CS form of the core skill (means Anet needs to create a CS version of every core skill, and we know how much effort Anet is willing to put into good balance instead doing low effort nonsense kitten, in particular when it comes to Mesmer, a class they seems to not understand at all).

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

Yes, much skill giving an instant refresh button to every skill.

You messed up your skills? No problem you were in CS so get to use it all again while the enemy had to manage their cool downs, positioning and abilities to avoid your stuff. Rinse and repeat. This was exactly one of the problems with Phantasm Chrono, you summoned your stuff 2-4 times and it didn't actually matter if you used skills correctly you threw out so much stuff no-one could really deal with it.

Giving a free reset to skills doesn't increase the skill ceiling unless those skills are weaker than without the reset which is hard to balance because as I pointed out you can't simply reduce stats and say good enough as many skill effects will be left untouched which is a major aspect to mesmer, the effects. You could reduce the duration and effect in CS but then you're creating a lot of work for yourself back end as each one would have to be a separate skill (like lesser X) which also means adjustments any time you buff/nerf elsewhere.

Adding alacrity to those components does make it simpler to use but it also makes it less of a headache to balance and adjust, what would you rather have? A mangled corpse of a spec that can never be allowed to be good and will always have the potential to throw off balance in a massive way or a more streamlined spec that is actually useable and won't cause the rest of the class to be a mangled misshapen mess(mer) of a class?

I know what I would choose.

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@apharma.3741 said:Wait... because you think anything casted twice is beyond busted... chronomancer should be unplayble garbage? (Because they will never give up on it)You know how does it feel? Probably the same if holo forge would had 90s cd, thats how I see chronomancer since its release. Chronomancer always been a core mesmer with this omegastrong Cont.Spit (on a huge cd) without its own unique feature (stolen alacrity and alacrity itself is very week)

Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, wtf with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

F to pay respect

What if you ...

(1) Divided up 3x clone Chronomancer shatter effects across 4x clone effects and allowed the Chronomancer to shatter on self. This way the 'improved' shatter effects are still capped at the same threshold and just more responsive.

... and ...

(2) Settled on a way to handle Continuum Split:

(2A) Maybe self shatter only grants 1 sec of distortion and clones are required for the resets?

(2B) Maybe the health, endurance, and position resets are really all you need and you remove the recharge reset while removing so many of the existing drawbacks (lower the cool down, allow it to be reset by signet, etc.)?

(2C) Maybe convert the skill recharge effect to an improved Mimic buff, only resetting the single next activated skill rather than all of them? Combine with some parts from A and B as necessary to improve functionality while still capping skill reset.

During play, a good Continuum Split requires setup and awareness and feels good to execute well. Harassing the Chronomancer makes that difficult, particularly with low Distortion uptime. Just like stealth openers are a problem, I imagine Continuum Split openers are also a problem. Even with clone requirements, starting with a Continuum Split while all of your cooldowns are up is pretty trivial at the beginning of an engagent ... it's just that your opponent has a bigger window to see it coming. Having clone requirements on shatters lowers Time Anchored shatter impact as you rapidly run out of fuel without larger build investment, but then so do the suggestions above without completely gutting Chronomancer responsiveness.

Chronomancer, like all elite specs, needs a trade off, no question. The better solution is to build that into the shatters as described above rather than gut gameplay responsiveness or further invest in low skill input phantasm spam. Could you build a bunker Chrono again? Yeah, but keep in mind Distortion and many other skills and traits that allowed for unkillable Chronos to plague the game no longer exist. Now you'd just get a cc support spec little different from some other builds running around.

@Allarius.5670 said:(2) Settled on a way to handle Continuum Split:

(2A) Maybe self shatter only grants 1 sec of distortion and clones are required for the resets?I would 100% accidentally press it D:

(2B) Maybe the health, endurance, and position resets are really all you need and you remove the recharge reset while removing so many of the existing drawbacks (lower the cool down, allow it to be reset by signet, etc.)?That's also a good idea, though a weird one. It would definitely increase the juke potential as well as sustain.

(2C) Maybe convert the skill recharge effect to an improved Mimic buff, only resetting the single next activated skill rather than all of them? Combine with some parts from A and B as necessary to improve functionality while still capping skill reset.That would make it a 2nd elite skill, wouldn't it?

Chronomancer, like all elite specs, needs a trade off, no question. The better solution is to build that into the shatters as described above rather than gut gameplay responsiveness or further invest in low skill input phantasm spam. Could you build a bunker Chrono again? Yeah, but keep in mind Distortion and many other skills and traits that allowed for unkillable Chronos to plague the game no longer exist. Now you'd just get a cc support spec little different from some other builds running around.Thank you for your contribution!

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

Can I guess the mod that banned you again?It begins with 5 and ends with 7.

OT: don't like mental defense nor seize the moment, seize is fine the way it is.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lol, asked mods to remove my own post and got 3 infaction points, kitten with this moderation??? XDDDDDDDD

Ah so he likes you too? After I mentioned him I got a different personal moderator 3 something something xd