If you want to gain/keep PvP players, stop absolutely demolishing builds every patch

Imagine you try GW2 PvP for the first time. You spend a few days finding a profession/build you like. Finally you find “the one” and you’re happy. You’re constantly on your toes trying to learn the game mode as well as your new found build.

Suddenly the PvP forum starts crying for nerfs and like clockwork the devs step in a decimate the build you were getting the hang out. Amulets deleted, cool downs on weapon abilities increased, trait cool downs increased to 5 minutes.

Well this sucks and feels terrible now. Let me learn something new. A month later, the hive mind on the forum has decided this build is also OP. Once again, the devs save the day by not slightly nerfing, but destroying another build.

It’s ridiculous to think that anyone wants to keep going through this cycle. I cannot even understand the patience Mesmers have to still log in.

You add incentives constantly to attract new players, but then turn around and make the game mode as unenjoyable as possible.

mesmer life in a nutshellpersonally I went from playing core power to chrono condi, to chrono power, to chrono bunker, to power mirage, to condi mirage, to core power and now im throwing with power mirage.

@Drennon.7190 said:Imagine you try GW2 PvP for the first time. You spend a few days finding a profession/build you like. Finally you find “the one” and you’re happy. You’re constantly on your toes trying to learn the game mode as well as your new found build.

Suddenly the PvP forum starts crying for nerfs and like clockwork the devs step in a decimate the build you were getting the hang out. Amulets deleted, cool downs on weapon abilities increased, trait cool downs increased to 5 minutes.

Well this sucks and feels terrible now. Let me learn something new. A month later, the hive mind on the forum has decided this build is also OP. Once again, the devs save the day by not slightly nerfing, but destroying another build.

It’s ridiculous to think that anyone wants to keep going through this cycle. I cannot even understand the patience Mesmers have to still log in.

You add incentives constantly to attract new players, but then turn around and make the game mode as unenjoyable as possible.

Sometimes we get builds that make the game unfun for everybody but those using them, the end result of losing players it's exactly the same

the game feels like codex arena from gw1 sometimes. if you're not familiar, its a mode where they choose a bunch of random skills you can use and it resets every so often.

it was the least played mode.

But you cannot ignore and let something to be severely broken because of this, I assure you broken builds make more people leave pvp. As our PvP community loves abusing these broken builds because they care more about virtual numbers rather than having fun, the big changes will and should continue. However, if ANet is faster with fixing those things, then maybe your part of discussion might be solved.

I am still amazed by the fact that ANet has not done a single thing about condi thief yet. That is why I do not enjoy pvp right now and decided to stop playing for a while. Also not forgetting explosive holos and core rangers(birds) but there are already enough threads about them.

People complaining about Anet destroying meta build are just enduring the trade off of herd behaviour: we abuse it together but we also lose it together. Anet don t nerf builds because they re broken/toxic but because there so many people playing that specific build that it creates a toxic atmosphere. We can make the same comparison with coronavirus vs smoking. They both kill people but one has a higher killing rate than the other. Therefore when most people don t give a f... about smoking, the whole world is focusing on how to cure coronavirus.All to say you can play a broken/toxic build as much as you want as long as there are only few people playing, nothing will be nerfed. On the other hand, if you start streaming your broken build, everybody will start playing it and it will get nerfed. Not because Anet wants to, but because you forced them to. If you re one of those who copy-paste build, then you re one of those who create a toxic atmosphere and forced Anet to nerf.

In other words, stop posting/streaming your builds, because all you re doing is indirectly asking Anet to nerf it.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the game feels like codex arena from gw1 sometimes. if you're not familiar, its a mode where they choose a bunch of random skills you can use and it resets every so often.

it was the least played mode.

I don't think people will understand just how bad codex arena was. This kitten was so bad dude.

I mean it took away player agency by just GIVING you a bunch of random abilities that you had no choice but to use. It was such an awful gamemode.

@Alyster.9470 said:But you cannot ignore and let something to be severely broken because of this, I assure you broken builds make more people leave pvp. As our PvP community loves abusing these broken builds because they care more about virtual numbers rather than having fun, the big changes will and should continue. However, if ANet is faster with fixing those things, then maybe your part of discussion might be solved.

I am still amazed by the fact that ANet has not done a single thing about condi thief yet. That is why I do not enjoy pvp right now and decided to stop playing for a while. Also not forgetting explosive holos and core rangers(birds) but there are already enough threads about them.

Except the posters on this forum don’t actually know what “broken” is.

You people cry “broken” every time a build comes around that requires you to think or adapt your play style.

The average GW2 PvP forum poster would rather play checkers than chess.

@Drennon.7190 said:Imagine you try GW2 PvP for the first time. You spend a few days finding a profession/build you like. Finally you find “the one” and you’re happy. You’re constantly on your toes trying to learn the game mode as well as your new found build.

Suddenly the PvP forum starts crying for nerfs and like clockwork the devs step in a decimate the build you were getting the hang out. Amulets deleted, cool downs on weapon abilities increased, trait cool downs increased to 5 minutes.

Well this sucks and feels terrible now. Let me learn something new. A month later, the hive mind on the forum has decided this build is also OP. Once again, the devs save the day by not slightly nerfing, but destroying another build.

It’s ridiculous to think that anyone wants to keep going through this cycle. I cannot even understand the patience Mesmers have to still log in.

You add incentives constantly to attract new players, but then turn around and make the game mode as unenjoyable as possible.

The game had the biggest pvp balance patch update of its history not so long ago. Some things are still getting adjusted because they over/underperform. Expect another dose of chaos when all the passive traits get a rework to replace those placeholder versions they currently have with 300 seconds cd.This gamemode was dying anyway, they are trying to shake it up and make it into something more enjoyable. Peope complained for years after PoF release how nerfs changed next to nothing, mirage was still a brainless condi cancerspam, holo was an unstoppable juggernaut etc. After the next 2-3 patches this excuse won't have as much credibility as it has right now, but they are right now in the middle of reworking the entire pvp balance: expect instability. Try to use it as an opportunity to learn more builds/classes or just wait it out.

@Drennon.7190 said:

@Alyster.9470 said:But you cannot ignore and let something to be severely broken because of this, I assure you broken builds make more people leave pvp. As our PvP community loves abusing these broken builds because they care more about virtual numbers rather than having fun, the big changes will and should continue. However, if ANet is faster with fixing those things, then maybe your part of discussion might be solved.

I am still amazed by the fact that ANet has not done a single thing about condi thief yet. That is why I do not enjoy pvp right now and decided to stop playing for a while. Also not forgetting explosive holos and core rangers(birds) but there are already enough threads about them.

Can you list some of the builds that have been unjustly nerfed after the large tone down patch?

Delete pvp- ultimate balance suggestion

@"Bazsi.2734" its been almost 4 months, they have already ran out of time in my book, how long do we need to wait, 6 months? 8? a year?BIG joke patch failed to deliver, and follow up patches are too slow, communication does not exist, we still have no clue what they wanna do with the game.last "big" balance like this made me quit the game, and im not even sure if I play gw2 for anything other then to laugh on how fucking pathetic the balance of this game is, and what kind of next disaster will be dropped next.

@Drennon.7190 said:Think of all the fun buildsCore cele d/d eleSoulbeast is over nerfedMesmer is now a memeCele D/D in core was not fun to play as or play against. It was the most formulaic shit imaginable and made pre-nerf Core Signet Nec in this patch look like a skillful build.

Every iteration of Soulbeast from Sic 'Em snipers to the ridiculous bs that was the abomination of Boonbeast were truly awful. Boonbeast might very well hold the spot as the least balanced build the game has ever had.

There has been a single set of Mesmer builds that were not completely unfun to play against since the game launched, and that's the various shatter burst builds. But since core there were the apex cancer PU clone death builds, then the esports killing chronobunker, condi mirage pre-nerf and then the return of chronobunker.

I'll give you Warrior tho. The only times it's ever been out of line has been the condizerker skullcrack build we had a for a brief time in HoT and Rampage being too strong for a long time.

The solution to all of these has been nerfs. And it is the right choice. Because buffing things to try and bring other builds up to the level of the mentioned builds at a large scale is just downright stupid.

@Aktium.9506 said:

@"Drennon.7190" said:Think of all the fun buildsCore cele d/d eleSoulbeast is over nerfedMesmer is now a memeCele D/D in core was not fun to play as or play against. It was the most formulaic kitten imaginable and made pre-nerf Core Signet Nec in this patch look like a skillful build.

"Unfun" to fight against does not mean broken or overpowered. Anet needs to take off the baby gloves and force players to actually adapt.

@"Drennon.7190" said:"Unfun" to fight against does not mean broken or overpowered.Well, good thing chronobunker and condi mirage was both.

I honestly hope the pvp balance team goes MIA for a year and forces people to adapt.

Nah we unironically need at least two or three big sweeping whack-a-mole balance patches complete with a bunch of reworks each year.

That keeps things fresh and interesting.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:

@Alyster.9470 said:But you cannot ignore and let something to be severely broken because of this, I assure you broken builds make more people leave pvp. As our PvP community loves abusing these broken builds because they care more about virtual numbers rather than having fun, the big changes will and should continue. However, if ANet is faster with fixing those things, then maybe your part of discussion might be solved.

I am still amazed by the fact that ANet has not done a single thing about condi thief yet. That is why I do not enjoy pvp right now and decided to stop playing for a while. Also not forgetting explosive holos and core rangers(birds) but there are already enough threads about them.

every mesmer builds

@Dantheman.3589 said:Delete pvp- ultimate balance suggestion

By the looks of it, I don’t think this is far off.

@"Drennon.7190" said:I honestly hope the pvp balance team goes MIA for a year and forces people to adapt.

And thats how you kill PvP. After the post-season balance patch, it will be obvious whats weak and whats strong in 2 weeks. There is some delay in the meta shifting, but less then a month after the balance patch, it settles. Some classes will still be too strong/weak in the roles they are supposed to fill, they will need further adjustments. Not to mention things like traits with 300 seconds of ICD are just placeholders. I wouldn't want to see them as an "option" for 1 more year. If the pvp balance stops I would be quitting the game(along with most PvP players I know), because enduring an ever-changeing unbalanced mess that's trying to fix itself is one thing, enduring a static unbalanced mess is another.

@Drennon.7190 said:

@Aktium.9506 said:

@Drennon.7190 said:Think of all the fun buildsCore cele d/d eleSoulbeast is over nerfedMesmer is now a memeCele D/D in core was not fun to play as or play against. It was the most formulaic kitten imaginable and made pre-nerf Core Signet Nec in this patch look like a skillful build.

Some builds deserves to not exist in PvP because of their sheer design. Symbol-based guardian specs, scourge, renegade, perma stealth thieves and various immortal bunkers to name a few.

I shake my head at this community...

This update has been the best thing that has happened to pvp in years. Isn't this what we asked for? It's what we and many other have asked for, a nerf to all the NONSENSE that plagued this thing and has made it not fun to play. Sure it's not everything we'd all like, but it's a step in the right direction. It's infinitely more fun now to play than in the post-HoT era of one-shot and two-shot builds.

It's funny really...the same people who say "adapt" are the same people who don't mind if their builds get buffed! Funny how that works!

This recent patch is also a step in the right direction. As time goes on, I find myself saying...Anet is not going to kill pvp in this game, the community is.

@"JTGuevara.9018" said:I shake my head at this community...

This update has been the best thing that has happened to pvp in years. Isn't this what we asked for? It's what we and many other have asked for, a nerf to all the NONSENSE that plagued this thing and has made it not fun to play. Sure it's not everything we'd all like, but it's a step in the right direction. It's infinitely more fun now to play than in the post-HoT era of one-shot and two-shot builds.

It's funny really...the same people who say "adapt" are the same people who don't mind if their builds get buffed! Funny how that works!

This recent patch is also a step in the right direction. As time goes on, I find myself saying...Anet is not going to kill pvp in this game, the community is.

No it is not the update we asked for. No one asked for hard reset on sPvP and completely changing damage and stats across the board. That is an Anet vanity project that no one fucking asked for. And it is terrible from both design goals and implementation. And also half-baked, from “to update later” traits to removing amulets. This is unquestionably the worst thing happened to sPvP.

I can not accurately measure the community’s reception. However, from reading the sPvP forums, it is lukewarm at best. What was the point of doing a hard reset if you didn’t spend the time ironing things out? And more importantly, why?! Was not this time wasted on this vanity project would have better spent, in let’s say, monthly patches from where we were before the patch to add more diversity?

This game is old. It did not have new sPvP content since PoF (beside one map). The goal of any patch has to be adding more builds. Removing diversity and reducing builds in the name of balance (which not only has not been achieved, but also seriously fucked up now) does not work. SPvP in this game is over, until the next expansion. And I usually try not to single out anyone, but Anet needs to remove the CMC guy ASAP from doing anything related to sPvP balance.

One last note, this is entertainment. I play GW2 to be entertaining. The devs job is to create entertaining content. If I am not entertained, as a player or community, it is not cuz I am not entertaining myself, it is cuz the devs failed to do so. “Community killing the game” is bull shit. It is not the “community” who are responsible for decrease in sPvP or game participation. Devs are. They are solely and absolutely responsible for reduction in player count and thus probably revenues.

What is killing sPVP is the abundance of people/bots that join with no intention of playing the game mode competitively, which in turn forces the players that are trying to have competitive games out because its impossible to make people/bots have the same intentions as them.

Mirage has been overpowered pretty much since PoF release, it is good to see it not being Meta anymore. It was the most unfun spec to play against. But yes I do understand that removing a dodge is lazy balancing, just like increasing the energy cost for revenant skills.

That being said, some things should not exist in PvP because they are just cancer and make many players avoid the gamemode. Current Renegade, pre-nerf Mirage, Condi thief, Ranger with bird..