How to improve PvP

GW2 PvP has such a high potential !

Build diversity is high. Balancing is on a good way (all recent patches were reasonable). All maps, especially the classical ones, are great.Most veterans, after years of playing this game, still are passionate for PvP.But player population is low.What could be done to bring back GW2 PvP and make it great again?

1) We need yearly world championships again. Look how the upcoming "masters of the arena tournament" already boosted PvP. New strong teams have been formedand its going to be really intersting who will win. Anet lacks, or doesnt even even show up, any engagement in term of championships although this would be the bestpublic relation possible.2) The community needs more information. Dear balancing team, let us know that you have recognized overperforming specs/traits, let us know what you are looking at,and in the best case let us know when the next balance patch is coming up. Communicate please, everything´s better than silence.3) Hotfixes and small adjustments for obviously overperforming specs (example rev) last much too long.4) "Good players" should not blame "bad players". We need them and rising the player population starts from the bottom.

Its all about increasing player population. More players = better matchmaking = less q-time = more money for Anet = world championships = everythings better.

There could be other positive proposals. What does the community think ?(I´ld like to see more constructive thoughts instead of negative criticism in this thread)

We still need a "conquest versus AI".

@"Tayga.3192" said:We still need a "conquest versus AI".. . . leveled like the fractals 1-100 yeah that would be very nice, a good idea^^Although I doubt that AI is good enough to do smart tactics like snowballing or ambushing in stealth or other such things. It would need a whole newdev-team to create something like this. But similar to 2v2 or 3v3 mini-season I could imagine that this would be possible.Or even a totally new mode vs AI, fantasy has no limits.

@hotte in space.2158 said:Although I doubt that AI is good enough to do smart tactics like snowballing or ambushing in stealth or other such things. It would need a whole newdev-team to create something like this. But similar to 2v2 or 3v3 mini-season I could imagine that this would be possible.

Anet can easily partner with OpenAI or something, no?Even if that's impossible, a conquest guide + 2v2-3v3 matches vs AI would be great.

I personally think Ranked should be rebuilt from the ground up with more options for everyone to play their own way, and with more of an emphasis on rewarding actual effort and competitiveness rather than just showing up and getting rewarded for it.Right now everything about it is RNG. Matchmaking is practically RNG, Rating gain/loss is completely RNG, whether you get a Duo on your team or not; RNG.

It doesn't feel very skill-based at all. Especially with all the rampant metagaming that rewards gaming the matchmaker more than it does playing the actual gamemode. So long as you understand how it works, it can be easily exploited. That's how people whom used to win about 50-60% of their Ranked games are suddenly winning 80, 90, or even 100% of them.

Then there's freebie rewards and PvE grinds in Ranked for some odd reason. I could understand them being there if you actually had to win and compete to get them, but the fact that you can AFK for and bot these rewards efficiently is a total joke. It isn't right that someone who quits on their team after the first midfight is lost, and just AFKs the rest of the game still gets rewarded for it.

Unranked and Balance Patch shakeups are fun and all, but there isn't much reason to get invested into a solely casual game for very long. I already feel satisfied moving to something else after i've gotten dailies done personally. I don't think balance is nearly as important as everyone says it is either. Things change, the meta shifts, and somebody is not happy about it. I mean; go figure, welcome to every PvP game with more than one option ever.

I think the emphasis should be on what reasonably can be fixed, and on what could make players return and stay rather than just a week to see which class bit the metaphorical bullet and what options have been removed from play before putting PvP or the game entirely down for another 2-3 months.

@"hotte in space.2158" said:GW2 PvP has such a high potential !

Build diversity is high. Balancing is on a good way (all recent patches were reasonable). All maps, especially the classical ones, are great.Most veterans, after years of playing this game, still are passionate for PvP.But player population is low.What could be done to bring back GW2 PvP and make it great again?

1) We need yearly world championships again. Look how the upcoming "masters of the arena tournament" already boosted PvP. New strong teams have been formedand its going to be really intersting who will win. Anet lacks, or doesnt even even show up, any engagement in term of championships although this would be the bestpublic relation possible.2) The community needs more information. Dear balancing team, let us know that you have recognized overperforming specs/traits, let us know what you are looking at,and in the best case let us know when the next balance patch is coming up. Communicate please, everything´s better than silence.3) Hotfixes and small adjustments for obviously overperforming specs (example rev) last much too long.4) "Good players" should not blame "bad players". We need them and rising the player population starts from the bottom.

Its all about increasing player population. More players = better matchmaking = less q-time = more money for Anet = world championships = everythings better.

There could be other positive proposals. What does the community think ?(I´ld like to see more constructive thoughts instead of negative criticism in this thread)

"Build diversity is high. Balancing is on a good way"...

Nah, it really isn't. Those are the main problems this game has faced since launch.

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:I personally think Ranked should be rebuilt from the ground up with more options for everyone to play their own way, and with more of an emphasis on rewarding actual effort and competitiveness rather than just showing up and getting rewarded for it.Right now everything about it is RNG. Matchmaking is practically RNG, Rating gain/loss is completely RNG, whether you get a Duo on your team or not; RNG.

It doesn't feel very skill-based at all. Especially with all the rampant metagaming that rewards gaming the matchmaker more than it does playing the actual gamemode. So long as you understand how it works, it can be easily exploited. That's how people whom used to win about 50-60% of their Ranked games are suddenly winning 80, 90, or even 100% of them.

Then there's freebie rewards and PvE grinds in Ranked for some odd reason. I could understand them being there if you actually had to win and compete to get them, but the fact that you can AFK for and bot these rewards efficiently is a total joke. It isn't right that someone who quits on their team after the first midfight is lost, and just AFKs the rest of the game still gets rewarded for it.

Unranked and Balance Patch shakeups are fun and all, but there isn't much reason to get invested into a solely casual game for very long. I already feel satisfied moving to something else after i've gotten dailies done personally. I don't think balance is nearly as important as everyone says it is either. Things change, the meta shifts, and somebody is not happy about it. I mean; go figure, welcome to every PvP game with more than one option ever.

I think the emphasis should be on what reasonably can be fixed, and on what could make players return and stay rather than just a week to see which class bit the metaphorical bullet and what options have been removed from play before putting PvP or the game entirely down for another 2-3 months.

This. Exactly this.

Multi nailed it right on the head. Everything is RNG. Especially matchmaking. Matchmaking is the same sort of 50/50 RNG-based system used in all modern team pvp games and I'm SICK of it. All it does it encourage shenanigans, whether it's throwing games, going afk, exploiting it by smurfing, you name it. It PUNISHES people who actually play by the rules. I know the popular stance in these forums to blame ANet for everything, but this community does more to damage the game than it lets on.

Frankly, I'm not as enthusiastic about pvp about it as I was in the past. I could care less if it's "esports" worthy or "competitive"... I just want it to be fun and playable for all.

The only positive aspect about pvp really, is the recent balance updates. That alone is really why I still even play.

’Build diversity is high. Balancing is on a good way (all recent patches were reasonable). ’Tell me it's a joke

How to REALLY improve PvP:Nerf the hell out of CC and give back the damage they took from CC skills.

But that's not going to happen, since Arenanet thinks near-permanent stunlocks are fun, interactive and competitive gameplay.

The game has to have a certain depth to combat before it can be good. Build diversity may sometimes be high in GW2, but that doesn't mean that any build is all that unique from any other build. Manual movement is woefully underpowered in GW2, and that really hurts the skill ceiling. Hard CC is also rampant and incredibly easy to apply, such that the solution to its saturated presence was just "LET'S MAKE STABILITY A THING," rather than just toning it down or relying on GW1's already-established gameplay flow which turned CC into either hyper-short interruptions or long-running effects around which teams would build and play.

we had a huge patch, a quick hotfix to what was super OP

corona hits

we have a small patch when it should have been 2 big ones right now

considering all that i think we are in a good spot

@Khalisto.5780 said:i think we are in a good spot

How so?Conditions are as oppressive as beforeBunkers are too effectiveCC is even more out of controlAlready underperforming skills like Deflecting Shot and Surge of the Mists were broken and are almost completely useless now.

I don't think the big patch had a healthy effect on sPvP.It's closer to the opposite.

@"hotte in space.2158" said:GW2 PvP has such a high potential !

Build diversity is high. Balancing is on a good way (all recent patches were reasonable). All maps, especially the classical ones, are great.Most veterans, after years of playing this game, still are passionate for PvP.But player population is low.What could be done to bring back GW2 PvP and make it great again?

1) We need yearly world championships again. Look how the upcoming "masters of the arena tournament" already boosted PvP. New strong teams have been formedand its going to be really intersting who will win. Anet lacks, or doesnt even even show up, any engagement in term of championships although this would be the bestpublic relation possible.2) The community needs more information. Dear balancing team, let us know that you have recognized overperforming specs/traits, let us know what you are looking at,and in the best case let us know when the next balance patch is coming up. Communicate please, everything´s better than silence.3) Hotfixes and small adjustments for obviously overperforming specs (example rev) last much too long.4) "Good players" should not blame "bad players". We need them and rising the player population starts from the bottom.

Its all about increasing player population. More players = better matchmaking = less q-time = more money for Anet = world championships = everythings better.

There could be other positive proposals. What does the community think ?(I´ld like to see more constructive thoughts instead of negative criticism in this thread)

+1

everything you said i agree with except that you are being generous to Anet. With Guild Wars 2 released, it eliminated build diversity and threw Profession roles to the trash https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Profession https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide_to_Professions and allowed Professions to play each other roles to even excelling their dedicated roles at the maximum without no penalty whatsoever

Example: Elementalist Profession behaving like a healer Profession and outperforming Guardian Profession healingsRevenant, Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist and Engineer Profession behaving like condition base and outperforming Necromancer Profession conditionsElementalist Profession behaving like a Warrior/Guardian Profession and outperforming them in their defences and their offences all at the same timeMesmer/Thief Profession being the most Bad Design Broken Professions since Alpha-Beta are rulers of the MetaToxic Stealth Mechanic having absolutely No Place!! in Guild Wars franchise is praised for its continual Toxic influences

that's all

I agree on the information thing. But I guess it won't change. Communication policy always has been the same for this company. They like to think surprising the players is a good thing.

Also the thing about good players ... blaming bad ones: I guess it is a problem. Some really think they are great when in fact we don't know it during the match. Ratings are hidden. I don't know if visible ratings would change that. (Would probably only make it worse.)

I'd love to see the option to play my favorite map. I know it would divide players ... and again much longer queues. Especially for less favorite maps. A "map of the day" system would be nice. Either a different queue for that map (while all maps are still in random map queue). Then we would only have 1 additional queue rotating maps daily. Or even make that one a "guaranteed to appear in every vote". Then we would have no additional queue but one fixed map appearing always - each day. (Could still be voted against it.)

Also more game modes. Death match is boring. Conquest is nice - on some maps. Real capture the flag (like Spirit watch without nodes maybe) would be nice. And bigger team fights and bigger maps. (Also where you could capture locations to spawn from and destroying the enemy spawn/main camp.) But please: Don't try to copy other games and their modes. Stronghold failed. GW2 is not moba.

That idea of the map was nice. Would be interesting with a much bigger map and 10-15 vs. 10-15 players and sieges and capping forward spawn locations. And most importantly: NO NPC archers and doorbreakers.

I'd love to see tournaments better organized or more accessible. Not only every few hours and then having to look for a team in lfg. Maybe a queue that allows for players to queue and PvE (would have much bigger time than normal queues of course and need patience) that makes queues and tournaments with teams from a queue.

Rating ... tbh I'd prefer if it was invisible (used for matchmaking but not showing it). Would recude less annoying whining cause of loss in rated games. (Sadly not many people play for fun and lots of players want their rank and rating visible so they can see how they improve.)

Rated team matches might be fun. (Team queue.) I'd love to see it back. Currently the matchmaker tries already to make duo queues balanced: If possible then the same amount of duo queued people on both teams. I usually solo queue but I didn't dislike the option to solo queue and gettin grouped witha a premade team of 4 that queued. (Same could then happen on the enemy team for example.)

Team matches need team queues. And in the mini season 2 vs. 2 in ranked also the full team (here 2) was allowed to queue. instead of reducing it to 1 only. (Which still would be 50 percet more than 2 out of 5 ... 40 percent.)

Non-Conquest game modes is what's really lacking. With more variety of objectives, different classes will be able to shine.

King of the HillOne point to hold, get points for killing other players and holding the hill.Similar to conquest but with only 1 capture point.

Capture the FlagOne flag in the middle, to be brought back to your base to score some points.Killing the flag carrier reset the flag to the middle.Speed capped and Shadowstep disabled while carrying the flag.

SabotageBring a bomb from your camp to the opposite camp.Speed capped and Shadowstep disabled while carrying a bomb.Each bomb gives increasing points.

Double escortTwo roads, two dolyaks.A dolyak only move if there's an ally nearby.A dolyak will move back if there's only foes nearby.Get points while escorting your dolyak, killing players, or pushing their dolyak back.If you get the dolyak to your arrival base, it's an instant win.

EscortOne road, one dolyak.Earn points while the dolyak is on your side and for killing players.An unattended dolyak will go back to the center and neutral area.If you get the dolyak to your base, it's an instant win.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:i think we are in a good spot

I'm considering the whole corona thing, cuz of that we had a patch ta took twice the time to come out and it's more like a hotfix.

I just don't blame the devs cuz they prolly working from home and more ppl got fired and we don't know

my only complaint considering this actually the destruction of ranger gs and the birds left untouched, and I don't even play ranger

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Khalisto.5780 said:i think we are in a good spot

ranger gs is not destroyed lol

@Kulvar.1239 said:Non-Conquest game modes is what's really lacking. With more variety of objectives, different classes will be able to shine.

this. single mode pvp is the biggest thing killing itself since balance hinges around the objective. more modes, balancing becomes less of an issue since all the different specs can thrive in each mode.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Kulvar.1239" said:Non-Conquest game modes is what's really lacking. With more variety of objectives, different classes will be able to shine.

We had courtyard. We had stronghold. We had the 2v2 mini season. None of them lasted just the initial "new toy" period. 2v2 was the closest, but it seemed only popular with a minority.

@"Exedore.6320" said:We had courtyard. We had stronghold. We had the 2v2 mini season. None of them lasted just the initial "new toy" period. 2v2 was the closest, but it seemed only popular with a minority.

christ. the reasons they didn't last long have been talked about for ages and i'm not going to bring them up again. they can work, it is in the realm of possibility.

editalso clever use of the word minority. it really emphasizes the fact that you're right. obviously a minority are going to find a non functioning game mode fun.

@Burnfall.9573 said:threw Profession roles to the trashIts right what you say !But this is an issue that cant be turned back. There are more specs than profession roles right now and with the next expansion there even might be more.Can you imagine the threads here in the forum if no new specs had been established the last years ?

For ANet to get me invested into PvP. They'd have to do a few things.

• Stop or Punish match manipulators and AFKers in Ranked PvP.
• Make match maker actual completely random to compensate for the low population that a normal match maker completely botches.
• Make it so a duo que can't face off against a team of pure randoms.
• Make it so a team can't get two duos vs a team of randoms.
• Make it so a team can stack classes on it even by backing to character selection screen.

If ANet does those few things above. I'd be enticed to comeback to GW2's PvP.

@Luthan.5236 said:They like to think surprising the players is a good thing.I wouldnt mind as long as its positive surprises =) but when the surprise is, that nothing happens . . .Also the thing about good players ... blaming bad ones: I guess it is a problem. Some really think they are great when in fact we don't know it during the match. Ratings are >hidden. I don't know if visible ratings would change that. (Would probably only make it worse.)I think its a matter of social behavior. Blaming other players and then complaining about low player population is a contradiction, its just arrogance by certain individuals,and as there are even top players among them, I am pretty sure that visible ratings would make it much worse

@Kulvar.1239 said:Non-Conquest game modes is what's really lacking. With more variety of objectives, different classes will be able to shine.

King of the HillOne point to hold, get points for killing other players and holding the hill.Similar to conquest but with only 1 capture point.

Capture the FlagOne flag in the middle, to be brought back to your base to score some points.Killing the flag carrier reset the flag to the middle.Speed capped and Shadowstep disabled while carrying the flag.

SabotageBring a bomb from your camp to the opposite camp.Speed capped and Shadowstep disabled while carrying a bomb.Each bomb gives increasing points.

Double escortTwo roads, two dolyaks.A dolyak only move if there's an ally nearby.A dolyak will move back if there's only foes nearby.Get points while escorting your dolyak, killing players, or pushing their dolyak back.If you get the dolyak to your arrival base, it's an instant win.

EscortOne road, one dolyak.Earn points while the dolyak is on your side and for killing players.An unattended dolyak will go back to the center and neutral area.If you get the dolyak to your base, it's an instant win.

As there had been already many players proposing ideas like this here in the forum, I ld say that Anet should seriously think about that

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:threw Profession roles to the trashIts right what you say !But this is an issue that cant be turned back. There are more specs than profession roles right now and with the next expansion there even might be more.Can you imagine the threads here in the forum if no new specs had been established the last years ?

'where there's a will, there is a way'

Anet can remove what's broken, what's not being used and replace them with something entirely new...to keep the Professions new and healthy- like an internal upgrade without requiring a full replacement of a new specialization.

example; i strongly believe in this- one don't need to keep buying 'the next new thing', 'the next upgrade' just to feel new.

-At the end of the day, it is about the players experience which matters the most and addressing what is broken, unhealthy and replacing/resolving them at their core root with something new

Specializations is not the solution in resolving past un-resolved problems but only adds more increasing Toxic experience to the players experience, resulting in more declines to the population

(i am not against having new specializations, what i am against is, leaving past unresolved mess for them to put up with and having them being blame for it)

example: no one want to be hired by a job, whose culture are uncontrollably Toxic and than being told, 'it's the right fit for you to put up with the mess'? No Thank You!! Bye!!

Here is an article which explains it better than i..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2020/05/09/microsoft-just-showed-an-uncomfortable-truth-about-the-xbox-series-x-and-ps5/amp/

your thoughts?