Open Letter to ArenaNet regarding Server Latency - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

Open Letter to ArenaNet regarding Server Latency

135

Comments

  • Personally I have stopped playing WvW on reset because the skill lag ruins everything and I am no longer have fun. Running at other times is usually ok and only gets laggy once a bunch of people show up. You can usually feel the lag coming so you can get away from it if you don't want any fights aka fun. It feels mostly unavoidable on reset nights tho. I don't agree with a subscription to fix this, this is something that should be prevented in the first place.

  • Skro.2691Skro.2691 Member ✭✭

    Agree with OP.

    ANet plz fix.

  • TheSun.4321TheSun.4321 Member ✭✭

    OP here

    I understand y'all aren't fans of a subscription to pay model, and have suggested things like an option subscription. I understand that statement has rubbed a lot of you the wrong way and I apologize for that.

    Nonetheless we appreciate all the support for the main issue here, which is resolving the tremendous server lag we're all facing, not just in WvW.

    :3

    Ship Captain of the H.M.C.S Galatis.

  • I give full support to this, being a player who has left a few years back and recently came back into the guild wars 2 community I have noticed a bigger calamity of what I call the invulnerable lag boss. I believe arena net should put full interest in this before anything else.. whats the point on new in-game development when the lag boss destroys you...

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 12, 2020

    @Kharturr.2794 said:
    There has absolutely been a steady decline in server performance. You don't even have to have two groups engaging each other anymore to lag out everything server side. They simply have to exist on the map together near each other and the servers cannot operate. Week in week out it's the same story and it's unfortunate, sapping the fun out of the gamemode.

    Yeah in the past the only situation I knew where the servers got into its knees was when all 3 parties where in SN fighting and this was with quickness and alacrity. Then it started wherever 3 parties hit each other then without quickness and alacrity and now even 2 parties are enough to bring the server to its knees . Funny thing is eotm seems not effected by it ?

    I don't know what the reason is but it certainly one of those : (1)too small server , (2)bad coding or(3) bad routing
    to:
    1.) well since the game started the hardware got more advanced(and cheaper) so giving worse hardware is pretty bad decision.
    2.) I'm a software developer too . So there are ways to make the same software more efficient, switch cases instead of if clauses , hashtables instead of arrays(for more then 10-15 items) , making things load at the right time, using threads, and using all kinds of compiler optimization down to using CPU extensions. VS has also tools for finding some hints of problems in the code but honestly I would start to look into eotm if its really less bad and if so looking at the code for gliding, mounts and everything else what is different.
    3.) Well if it is inside the serverfarm this can be fixed but not on the backbone or provider side.

    EDIT: with tools in VS I meant codeanalyze but there are certainly some premium or custom tools which I don't know too . But what is new it hat the GCC also support this now in the newest version with gcc 10 and -fanalyzer which is still experimental but should show problems.

  • I approve this message.

  • Hugely agree with this. It needs to be fixed.

  • I agree with op.
    please Anet do something about this.

  • Blackarps.1974Blackarps.1974 Member ✭✭✭

    I actually moved to EU about a year ago and its been rough. On NA, I never logged out because of lag because it would often fix itself. Now I know distance and the speed of light are a thing but my ping spikes and the amount of lag on EU is unplayable. My 130 ping shoots up to 500+ and all of the sudden I can't move for seconds at a time. Now I can't even move back to NA because my server has been "full" since I left and I'm not about to drop hundreds of gold over relinks. That's not fair when I just want to play with my friends.

    In short, moved to EU, lag to death, can't go back to NA because server I want to play on is "full" for months at a time. Makes me not even want to login and play anymore.

  • Completely impossible to play to the full extent of the game mode lag is outrageous... when u have more numbers wiped the enemy 10 time and them bam! No skills go off and your wiped.

  • I support this!

  • Everyone here complaining about sub fees don't realize games like FF14 have $5 a month fees and perform lightyears better with better content too. Make it a WvW exclusive monthly reward box you have to buy that's available on the 1st of every month or something so people can PvE without a sub. I'd GLADLY pay for that if the revenue generated went towards improving the game mode.
    "I pay more than that each month for shinies" well why do you pay for shinies in a game that lets all of its best features go to waste on bad lag and anemic support team?

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2020

    @thealbatross.6853 said:
    Everyone here complaining about sub fees don't realize games like FF14 have $5 a month fees and perform lightyears better with better content too. Make it a WvW exclusive monthly reward box you have to buy that's available on the 1st of every month or something so people can PvE without a sub. I'd GLADLY pay for that if the revenue generated went towards improving the game mode.
    "I pay more than that each month for shinies" well why do you pay for shinies in a game that lets all of its best features go to waste on bad lag and anemic support team?

    Since when is ff14 $5 a month sub? it's $12.99-14.99 a month, this also doesn't make the game immune to lag. If you start charging a sub fee to "eliminate lag" you're putting yourself into a very bad spot and I would expect customer service to blow up every time a lag spike happens, regardless if it originates with the game or not. I don't think any company is foolish enough to do this. Also gw2 is already known to have skill lag problems which doesn't look like it's fixable, in the 8 years it's been around.

    If a company wants to charge a sub, they better be pumping out better content because that's what they should be charging for, and alliances better be out the door the next day at this point. Not a cash grab for a game mode they let rot for so long.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd support whats best for the majority of players. Even if I will have to stop playing the game if its no longer in my favor ,if it subs.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • @Jayden Reese.9542 said:

    @Sapphic Savvy.8376 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    When you think if you get your entire zerg to come in here to comment and inflate your thread is going to make a diff over the 45 other same exact threads. This one will fix lag fo sure

    Maybe whatever group of employees monitors/examines the forums are not the most reliable for communicating function related issues to the appropriate parties. Perhaps we should send in support tickets instead. Employees who examine these forums are more than likely programmed to tune everything out because 95% + of the forums is comprised of complaints or suggestions.

    Think of how they ruined the leveling-up experience in the game because they had received too many support tickets from confused new players. Now you get one skill at a time, so it's not too hard. smh

    I'm sure many of us can provide the support staff with direct evidence of server-side skill lag. When my game is running stupid smoothly during these zerg fights, and the only things that are not working are any skills other than "1" ... not much else it can be. Not sure what the forum rules are on posting links but I'm willing to post links to youtube after uploading clips for reference/evidence.

    Tickets won't fix lag either. What do you think it's some ez fix? That they just need a certain amount of players to complain 100 times? Like they have a switch to decrease lag and just can't get a guy there to flip it because of covid. Every game with massive battles aion eso etc all have this issue when 100 plus converge. The obsession with having to be in ebg doesn't help because you converge way more often there. I never exp lag in NA and my guess is most these threads are EU but idk for sure. I also go to other maps so maybe if I just camped ebg at reset everytime I'd lag too idk. I also like the people that chime in w the "I support less lag too" like theres someone who supports more lag out there. Beating a dead horse with these threads just thinking anet can fix this overnight.

    If they are using AWS for hosting WvW and they are paying for a less than optimal subscription, then yes, it is just a matter of "a switch". AWS subscriptions are tiered and if you upgrade you get better performance but it costs more. Same as almost everything else in life.

  • ++1 to the OP. While you're at it, fix high pop world bosses that have similar hi pop issues too. Like Teq.

  • I agree with the OP. The server issue has been an issue for years but lately it’s become unplayable. When you can be in the middle of a fight and spam 1 and the other Zerg completely wipes because 1 is the only skill you can get off, there is a serious problem. We experienced this last week in SMC. All 30+ of us just stood still and watched the enemy melt. They clearly didn’t have lag on there side. This is not what WVW is suppose to be.. attrition by spamming 1. 😭

  • I agree with the OP. I used to WvW frequently and run with large groups, experiencing little to no issues with lag back in the day. As of maybe 4(?) months ago I dipped back into WvW after an extended break and was dismayed to learn that even going near large battles is hell now. The skill lag is so bad it is literally impossible to participate in fights of this scale. Heck, everything slows down if a zerg is just peacefully frolicking in in a nearby field.

    It comes to a point when you wonder if it's better for your server if you simply don't log in; might as well give your queue spot to someone whose skillbar is working.

  • eyestrain.3056eyestrain.3056 Member ✭✭✭

    Just agreeing with original post. Help us be able to play your game please!

  • Sandrox.9524Sandrox.9524 Member ✭✭

    Lag is hardly new thing. It was small issue most of the years. Started to be main issue about 2 years ago. There must be some explanation on why Anet just ignoring this issue. Why cant they share with us the struggle of dealing with the issue? if there is a problem I know for myself that I want to know about it.

  • Hey, on the plus side everyone now has the zerg radar, ie lag spike when an enemy zerg is nearby.

  • I play both NA and EU and lately there has been a marked increase in latency for the game overall. I believe one of the reasons was the damaged undersea cable which should have been repaired by now, but i can't find the current status, many sources say it is still pending repairs
    https://subtelforum.com/apcn2-submarine-cable-has-been-damaged/

    There are also other sources who have mentioned that currently the AWS (Amazon Web Services) servers are prioritizing speed and load and hence, pings have been given lower priority.

    This or any other reason, the point here is i wish this company had a # server health page to check where the issue lies with, if it was a local issues, i.e. AWS servers or and international, i.e. APCN2. Anet used to once give more priority to server health, but since the move to AWS it has always been treated second rate.

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    Last night there was lag, even while a small 20 or so group was poking at us, while two zergs clashed on the Borderlands, not on EB and inside SM.

    At the moment it's pretty much unplayable at times, although you can still move and dodge, unless it gets as bad as when everybody starts rubberbanding.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    skill lag in 3-ways has been in the game for years.
    anet will not acknowledge this.
    anet will not do anything to fix this.

    whether it them not caring enough to address this, or technical limitations (in 2020 lulw) the lag is here to stay until this game is no more.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Oxylus.7985 said:
    I assume this has been covered before at some time, but we know that condi heavy builds cause server lag. We are in a more condi-heavy meta ATM which means more lag. I don't think Anet can just get faster EC2 instances to make it better.

    See this from ancient history for some background on the problem.

    My (only slightly tonue-in-cheek) proposal : nerf all condis in WvW and make it a power meta. Problem solved. :)

    Just to highlight a part that was stated from ANet back in 2013...

    We’ll be going through almost every skill in the game over the coming months and optimizing them one-by-one. This in itself will make an extremely large difference, that when that patch note comes through, expect a very different WvW experience.

    I don't think they ever did this for HoT or PoF skills to fix the issue.

  • Nuxx.1025Nuxx.1025 Member

    Please Anet do something about the server lag, reset nights at WvW are unplayable..from the latin comunity here we have all the same problem. Its, just press the 1 key, if it even goes off , till the fights ends..

  • Blackelk.3784Blackelk.3784 Member ✭✭

    Server lag in WvW has only been getting steadily worse each patch or content update and has to be address, a sub method def is not the way though.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    No ones listening. Big wall of text for nothing. I didn’t even read it either.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    More from the ANet employee which points to code inefficiencies with skills:

    Interestingly, we switched to more powerful servers (easy to do at AWS!), not less powerful. But then we configured them in a way that told our load balancer they were more powerful than they actually were which led to this problem. Sorry.

    But we fixed that configuration a couple of days ago; so if this is a recent video we have another problem. Looking at our perf graphs shows there isn't any skill lag right now (and they definitely showed skill lag a couple of days ago).

    [Edit 2019 08 26: I went into Blackgate and watched the CPU and some fights; pretty sure this is a problem with too much CPU requirements and it only happens in big battles with lots of skills flying. Sometimes players, who are clever and amazing, figure out a new way to use a skill that is expensive so we'll be evaluating skill performance.]

  • Rym.1469Rym.1469 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure if this has been even brought up, but does the game need to dynamically update Conditions? I remember that tweaking conditions was the solution to lag in the past.

    What I mean is that in GW2 individual Bleeding tick damage, for example, (as I see it) checks character stats every time damage is supposed to occur. Guild Wars 2 combat mechanics, introduced so far, wouldn't be drastically affected if the calculations were done only on application (aka snapshot) and it would likely help reduce the strain on numbers of individual calculations game has to do in big fights drastically.

    Again, I don't have insight into what exactly is causing the problems, but suggestion above could be a factor and proposed change could help.

    Yeah, I stream once in a blue moon.

  • it would be great if could publish all guilds, commanders etc that stand behind this. Organize the wvw community by allowing wvw guilds to participate in this persuit.

  • hugeboss.5432hugeboss.5432 Member ✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    I have noted a few different types of server latency issues in recent times, and have a few leads (thanks for posting about this issue, so I didnt have to start a new thread :)

    I noticed that by standing at spawn I had normal latency (roughly 100ms for me), but when I stood close to an enemy zerg it increased to 3600ms and became pretty much unplayable. But, I noticed it depends on what type of zerg (class compositions). It seems there is a class that causes so much extra data packets to be thrown around in the system that it causes havoc with everyones bandwidth.

    1. My immediate suspicion falls upon the necro/scourge ofcourse. They have so much "micro damage" going on around the place, and that might work in 5vs5 PvP, but in WvW we have like 50x50x50's, you can imagine how much of this type of "insignificant micro damage" is actually causing a huge increase in network packets having to be transmitted all over the place. No matter how small the damage is, it still has to be interwoven into a compatible network packet for it to be propagated to the clients. (Also more recently the Engi/Scrappers almost constant "AE micro healing" is prolly also causing abit of extra network battle traffic, and prolly should also be reworked to make it more large network friendly).

    They should take a look at the numerous "micro damage" skills, and pack that damage more efficiently into dealing more of a significant amount, instead of constant micro damage all across the entire battle. This, would help clear alot of "battle lag" and generally keep the gamemode design much more large scale network optimal.

    2. The Covid19 issue. There are specific times of day when kids havent quite gone to bed & love streaming the favorite cat videos & stuff. This is ofcourse not Anets fault, and out of their scope to fix. Usually leads to a general increase in the minimum latency at ur specific geolocation & time of day.

    3. [USER TWEAK] Turn off your smartphone's ability to use WIFI to make calls/send msgs. Sometime after 2017 they enabled this feature in android, iphone etc. And altho u might have 4G, it will use your WIFI to adhoc connect your mobile and use your wifi bandwidth instead of the telecompany's base station to route your side of the call (but you still get billed ofc). Every competitive gamer has this setting turned off naturally :-) (I think this is kinda naughty of telecompanies.. but please dont quote me on this. I head it from someone else. "Cant remember his name" etc.).

    4. Thunderhead Keep. This map has an issue that causes a zonewide network rubberband issue for everyone in it for 2-5 seconds usually then eases off, seems to repeat indefinately until map change. Been there for atleast 3-4 patches, but was ok before that. Not all instances are equally bad.

    _/_ [SSSh] Secret Society Service _/_
    [Respect Ur Opponents, We All Provide Eachothers Fun]
    Blackgate Since Season 1

  • Complete agree unfortunately we have had to call raids as well due to half the squad lagging out on ANY engagement. Used to be only when all 3 full ques hit eachother in a 1k meter range but now it is any amount any combination of 1v1 or 1v1v1.

  • I agree with op. Please do something.

  • Laureh.2097Laureh.2097 Member ✭✭

    I hope this issue doesn't get overlooked as part of the covid crisis with more online. My internet and home network far exceeds what most people have as does my gaming pc. I frequently run dslreport tests. I don't have or expect to have network issues but I do in wvw and it's not just since covid. I'm on Maguuma and when we are matched up against Jade Quarry, I can't play wvw. I can't get near a small group of them without lagging out completly. People have told me it's because so many on that server are overseas but I have never had any real explanation or fix for it other then to wait for the next matchup. When we have all 3 of any assortment of servers together, the game is unplayable. No utility or f skills work. If you can move a little and press 1 maybe you get lucky but it is just fighting lag. No skill or strategy just whoever gets 111 off in the overwhelming lag. lag lag lag. Not my home, not my isp, just in wvw mostly. Sometimes pve but, who cares about that lol.

    If you can't fix this right now, please make some suggestions of what might help users of your game as far as settings in game or computer that might help mitigate the lag. I have seen users post their setting solutions but have never seen any official recommendations from anet on this issue and you must have server metrics that you could interpret to give users a way around the lag is it can't be fixed right this second. Please!

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hugeboss.5432 said:
    I have noted a few different types of server latency issues in recent times, and have a few leads (thanks for posting about this issue, so I didnt have to start a new thread :)

    I noticed that by standing at spawn I had normal latency (roughly 100ms for me), but when I stood close to an enemy zerg it increased to 3600ms and became pretty much unplayable. But, I noticed it depends on what type of zerg (class compositions). It seems there is a class that causes so much extra data packets to be thrown around in the system that it causes havoc with everyones bandwidth.

    1. My immediate suspicion falls upon the necro/scourge ofcourse. They have so much "micro damage" going on around the place, and that might work in 5vs5 PvP, but in WvW we have like 50x50x50's, you can imagine how much of this type of "insignificant micro damage" is actually causing a huge increase in network packets having to be transmitted all over the place. No matter how small the damage is, it still has to be interwoven into a compatible network packet for it to be propagated to the clients.

    They should take a look at the numerous "micro damage" skills, and pack that damage more efficiently into dealing more of a significant amount, instead of constant micro damage all across the entire battle. This, would help clear alot of "battle lag" and generally keep the gamemode design much more large scale network optimal.

    I think it's been a long standing speculation all the extra calculations in the background have helped build the extra lag over the years. Things like conditions(especially since they were uncapped right before before HoT), and boons like retaliation could also be a factor here since it also has a lot of "micro damage" going out, along with the increase in spam of both over the years, not to mention boons like alacrity allowing even more spamming of skills. Not sure what can be done there as the problem existed since day one before all that so...

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    please fix your server !
    its unplayable !
    Thank You !
    edit:
    Server [ EU ] current time 21:16 pm ( there was no queue on my map )
    cant cast any skill apart from auto attack

  • eyestrain.3056eyestrain.3056 Member ✭✭✭

    If it were only in large scale fights I could cope but when i'm 1v2 nowhere near an enemy zerg and all of my stuff is firing .5-1 seconds late I just don't feel like trying anymore at all. I dont have these lag issues elsewhere in pvp/pve.

  • Sylum.1806Sylum.1806 Member ✭✭
    edited May 11, 2020

    Hey guys. If you're based in Asia, and your lag issues started since April 18th, I have probable explanations and effective solutions for the lag.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/g4pn1q/latency_since_april_18_2020/

    Heads up: It has nothing to do with ArenaNet.

  • Luranni.9470Luranni.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    Oddly the game seemed a lot smoother yesterday even in a big keep fight. Then rollback. Lost lootbags. Sadpanda. :P

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Luranni.9470 said:
    Oddly the game seemed a lot smoother yesterday even in a big keep fight. Then rollback. Lost lootbags. Sadpanda. :P

    MA 1400 PIPS! MA LOOTBAGS! MA RANKS!

  • xyle.5410xyle.5410 Member

    Yes, the lag has been bad lately. I'd gladly pay more, especially if it were optional, if I knew the money would go towards solving the lag issues in wvw. I assume the lag is just as bad in pve.

  • True. Those fights with 3 not-even-full squads in Stonemist are sooo far more bad than i can handle..
    Latency spikes to 10 seconds in the nightmare of hundreds of retaliations and condies and heals and fields everywhere.
    Not even mentioning fps drops to 10. That is it. 10 fps and 10 seconds of latency. Impossible to have any large-scale fun.
    All you can do without lags is capturing camps in small group.
    Though I guess the issue can not be completly solved until game is totally reworked to a different engine :/

  • I don`t get laggy on a daily basis, but there are days where i legit have to wait 2 minutes to load a dodge in pvp and its just bad and frustrating.

  • Actually, the WVW servers are well lagged according to the reset, so it has become unviable to participate in the weekly WVW rest.

  • What you need to improve is the infrastructure to support connections from different parts of the world, different continents. You are broke? Do not know. The game is dying? Do not know. I only know one thing, if it continues as it is, soon most players who are passionate about the unique feature that the game has will look for something better and migrate to another better game and dont look this commentary as a negative aspect. Look how a constructive criticism of those who really like the game.

    Regards

  • There's nothing worse than pressing a button and watching nothing happen when you're in the middle of an intense fight. This letter needs to be heard, and ANET needs to respond.