Imagine what if Shiro was nerfed properly. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Imagine what if Shiro was nerfed properly.

Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭
edited May 9, 2020 in Revenant

Riposting shadow - 30 energy, no longer grants fury/endurance
Phase traversal - 25 energy, no cd, no quickness, no unblockable, reduced range to 900
Jade winds - 40 energy cost, removed vuln, probably reduced radius as well to 360

Comments

  • Trianox.3486Trianox.3486 Member ✭✭✭

    Hummm I'm not sure that turning the two first skills into basically simply movement skill is that great, unless you reduce even more energy cost.

    Revenant traits have so many internal cooldown or restrictions on application, it's nice to have skills that grant quickness, unblock, endurance, fury, etc. relatively on demand.

    That's actually a bit my issue with the current skills.
    They do a lot for a decent energy cost, but sometimes I wish I would only have a simple teleport or a simple "withdraw"/evade back.
    And I wish I had a 4th utility option to choose which would been less movement focused, and more boon based.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

    Poor thieves. A shame they couldnt get away for once in their life

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭

    Just to be sure , you want to nerf shiro?
    If its a yes then , why? It isnt that strong , i mean it is designed to pvp so maybe there is good but i dont think it needs a nerf at least not now that we have lost hammer almost completely .
    Please guys stop asking for rev nerfs when there are still warriors and guardians breaking the metas

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Do not touch my Jade Winds.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here's what I'll do to Shiro :

    Enchanted Daggers - Add a flip skill which consumes remaining daggers for HP.

    Riposting Shadows - 30 Energy, gives Vigor only

    Phase Traversal - 30 Energy, 900 range

    Impossible Odds - give Quickness back or reduce cost to -6

    Jade Winds - 40 Energy, pulses Vuln in an AoE for 3 pulses, and then stuns for 2 seconds.

    Each pulse applies 5 Vuln stacks.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

    Poor thieves. A shame they couldnt get away for once in their life

    Yes, because a heavy armor duelist/teamfight/+1 class should totally be able to permanently hunt down an 11k hp medium armor mobility/+1 class with low prolonged dueling potential. Totally makes sense! /s 🙄

    Thief hardcounter rev. Just the steal skill alone is a big f u doing massive damage and slowing for eternity ignoring how how easy it is for them to cleanse torment/chill and make half of ur kit useless due to stealth

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Just to be sure , you want to nerf shiro?
    If its a yes then , why? It isnt that strong , i mean it is designed to pvp so maybe there is good but i dont think it needs a nerf at least not now that we have lost hammer almost completely .
    Please guys stop asking for rev nerfs when there are still warriors and guardians breaking the metas

    I want Shiro utility skills to be usable without consuming nearly ur whole nergy bar in 1 skill press. Reminder rev starts at 50 energy and 1 riposting shadows leaves you with 10 energy left and in current state wep skills cost energy as well too for whatever reason leaving you basically a sitting duck.
    The problem with rev skills is that they do too many things at once

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Here's what I'll do to Shiro :

    Enchanted Daggers - Add a flip skill which consumes remaining daggers for HP.

    Riposting Shadows - 30 Energy, gives Vigor only

    Phase Traversal - 30 Energy, 900 range

    Impossible Odds - give Quickness back or reduce cost to -6

    Jade Winds - 40 Energy, pulses Vuln in an AoE for 3 pulses, and then stuns for 2 seconds.

    Each pulse applies 5 Vuln stacks.

    Sounds good but how ajde winds would work? As channeled ability i cant see it working

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    Sounds good but how ajde winds would work? As channeled ability i cant see it working

    Like how Corona Burst works.

    Press once > effect pulses > explodes.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

    Poor thieves. A shame they couldnt get away for once in their life

    Yes, because a heavy armor duelist/teamfight/+1 class should totally be able to permanently hunt down an 11k hp medium armor mobility/+1 class with low prolonged dueling potential. Totally makes sense! /s 🙄

    Thief hardcounter rev. Just the steal skill alone is a big f u doing massive damage and slowing for eternity ignoring how how easy it is for them to cleanse torment/chill and make half of ur kit useless due to stealth

    That’s only partially true. Certain thief builds hard counter-ish certain rev builds (but only when played by good players). Also Essence Sap (thief stolen skill) only slows for 1s, so not sure that qualifies as “for an eternity.” 😂.

    Hard counters are fine for the game. Each class and build should have weaknesses and even hard or mostly hard counters that can be used against them. What isn’t fine is having a class that can perma-hunt any other class with a super cheap no-CD teleport, which is what your suggestion would give back to Rev. Did you play Rev on its release week? Or even during the first 6 months? Phase Traversal was utterly broken without the CD or higher energy cost. These were good changes and they remain good changes to this day.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Riposting shadow - 30 energy, no longer grants fury/endurance
    Phase traversal - 25 energy, no cd, no quickness, no unblockable, reduced range to 900
    Jade winds - 40 energy cost, removed vuln, probably reduced radius as well to 360

    Currently the main difference in PvP between a Thief and a power Rev is that the Herald has much better sustain in teamfights. If you reduce the extra effects on the current Shiro skills you will find that:
    1) The damage won't be that great.
    2) In n vs n teamfights the Rev will die fast.

    At the moment power Rev clearly loses vs Thieves and Mesmers, and the other classes are so tanky that there's no point to try to solo them, even if we think that we would win. Also, there's no reason to touch Jade Winds: does 0 damage and spents the whole energy of the legend swap, so the follow up is usually an auto attack. Is more a team-fight oriented tool than a skill which benefits Revs on duels.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

    Poor thieves. A shame they couldnt get away for once in their life

    Yes, because a heavy armor duelist/teamfight/+1 class should totally be able to permanently hunt down an 11k hp medium armor mobility/+1 class with low prolonged dueling potential. Totally makes sense! /s 🙄

    Thief hardcounter rev. Just the steal skill alone is a big f u doing massive damage and slowing for eternity ignoring how how easy it is for them to cleanse torment/chill and make half of ur kit useless due to stealth

    @zaswer.5246 said:
    Just to be sure , you want to nerf shiro?
    If its a yes then , why? It isnt that strong , i mean it is designed to pvp so maybe there is good but i dont think it needs a nerf at least not now that we have lost hammer almost completely .
    Please guys stop asking for rev nerfs when there are still warriors and guardians breaking the metas

    I want Shiro utility skills to be usable without consuming nearly ur whole nergy bar in 1 skill press. Reminder rev starts at 50 energy and 1 riposting shadows leaves you with 10 energy left and in current state wep skills cost energy as well too for whatever reason leaving you basically a sitting duck.
    The problem with rev skills is that they do too many things at once

    Then i agree with you sry i misunderstood

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2020

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Rev already had no CD 20 energy phase traversal when it first released and it was broken as hell. Literally no one could escape from a shiro rev ever. Did not make for good pvp gameplay

    Poor thieves. A shame they couldnt get away for once in their life

    yes, because this changes only affect thieves, lol no, 0 cd phase traversal is the dumbest thing happened in gw2

    lol, no unblockable no quickness, you effectively deleted yourself from +1 role just so you can spam more skill without thought?

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Jade Winds - 40 Energy, pulses Vuln in an AoE for 3 pulses, and then stuns for 2 seconds.

    Each pulse applies 5 Vuln stacks.

    I don't think I'd like this for the simple fact of it consuming energy on cast. It is an important skill to be able to stow and is easy to interrupt.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I don't think I'd like this for the simple fact of it consuming energy on cast. It is an important skill to be able to stow and is easy to interrupt.

    I think it will be great because on 50> Energy yu can precast and PT, or precast and Deathstrike with 50 Energy.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I don't think I'd like this for the simple fact of it consuming energy on cast. It is an important skill to be able to stow and is easy to interrupt.

    I think it will be great because on 50> Energy yu can precast and PT, or precast and Deathstrike with 50 Energy.

    You*. You’re driving me nuts here.

    Jade Winds is fine as it is. That vuln pulsing would be absolutely bananas.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2020

    Even if jade winds gives aoe stun + vulvn, it shouldnt cost more than 30

    but btw, i would be completely fine with having movement-only abilities.
    So low(er) energy , but no quickness on PT or removing cripple etc on RS (this could be all a part of the Devastion trait that only removes immob atm)

    Also Spirit boon to shiro should give either Fury or Quickness, not just 2 might lol

  • Funky.4861Funky.4861 Member ✭✭✭

    If this is for pvp/wvw only then fine. I'm quite happy with my trait and utility/weapon skills synergies in pve txvm, so i'd be disappointed if any of those proposals made it to the game.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I don't think I'd like this for the simple fact of it consuming energy on cast. It is an important skill to be able to stow and is easy to interrupt.

    I think it will be great because on 50> Energy yu can precast and PT, or precast and Deathstrike with 50 Energy.

    Precast? Is there something I am missing? How do you precast before a port on Rev? Both PT and Deathstrike have cast times. I still think it automatically consuming energy upon cast start would be a huge nerf. Being able to stow Jade is extremely important if you see somebody dodge or pop stab last minute. Also just imagining fighting a Thief and getting stolen on while casting it sounds horrid. I think it's fine at 50e. Only thing I think needs changing for it is for some of its damage to return when they re-evaluate CCs. It is one of those high telegraph, high impact CC's like Chilled to the Bone and Prime Light Beam that could use it.

    Edit: I think I see what you are saying, I must have misunderstood your proposed functionality. Are you saying it would still have a cast time (not channel time) and after the cast time it would begin to pulse the vuln and then stun at the end? If that's the case, it seems like it would make it harder to actually land the CC if it had a cast time, a delay, and the pulsing vuln as a further indicator that a stun is coming.