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Server Maintenance Reward is super unfair

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  • Bad luck me, for trying to be reasonable and not bother a server which clearly struggles and will have some kind of reset. Yeah, thanks for not getting the mount. 2 yas of no dailies for: Bon fire. If i wanted this, i would have played Dark Souls -.-

  • Kam.5273Kam.5273 Member ✭✭
    edited May 14, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    I think every player which got problems with Rollback over the weekend AND wasnt able to play the SAB to end or Gw2 at all FOR OVER A DAY should receive the Mount skin.
    What about players that took free just for enjoying last days of the SAB? Should they just have get the panic from sunday for over 48hours to get a full rollback? Plus wasting their time waiting for the servers to come back?

    This isnt fair at all. I know people that take this stuff as a serious reason to quit gw2 and i can fully understand them.
    (even though i got the full compensation)

    ...not to mention all the other problems that hurt gw2 bad ....like server problems at all...

    I for example couldn't complete the last daily to get the achievement and the last crimsom token to get the skin, but hey, they gave us a bonfire that is going to be directly going into the bin while others get a shiny mount.

  • Lots of varied comments and opinions being posted on this topic, so I figure I may as well add my thoughts, not that it's going to make any difference to anything, but what the heck. I didn't log-in on Monday, normally I don't play in the daytime and usually log-in to play in the evenings. I wasn't even aware of any issue until I tried to log-in on Monday evening and wasn't able to. Tried to log-in to these forums and couldn't even do that, I simply could not log-in to my account anywhere, so all I could do was read about what was happening, not that ANet was providing much information other than the EU servers had been taken down for maintenance and that there had been player reports of account rollbacks that ANet were investigating. That was it, I had no options, couldn't log-in to my account so I couldn't do anything. Just had to wait for ANet to complete the maintenance which eventually happened the next day. When I finally tried to log-in on Tuesday evening there was some sort of network issue that was preventing log-ins! So I had to wait for ANet to check that out, fortunately that didn't take very long and I was able to log-in a little later on Tuesday evening. So, I wasn't able to log-in for some 20+ hours, but I didn't lose any in-game progress or any items. Now I find out that ANet is giving affected players some compensation, which is a nice gesture from them. But what am I getting I wonder? A free Communal Boost Bonfire! But anyone who was able to log-in earlier on Monday will also receive a free Curious Creatures Mount Select License.

    Not really sure how I feel about this compensation to be honest. I've been playing GW2 since the days of Beta, I've taken a few breaks over the years but I've been playing fairly consistently the last few years. Never once have I felt that I had any reason to complain about ANet, in fact, until now I've always felt that I've been treated pretty well. Yeah, until now. Over 20 hours I could not log-in, that wasn't my choice, I simply could not log-in to my account, at all, anywhere! For that "inconvenience" I'm being given a free Communal Boost Bonfire! I know others lost actual progress and items, I know others have more reasons to be upset about what happened on Monday. For those who do get the free mount skin that's a nice gesture from ANet and that does feel like compensation. For the rest of us who just get a free Communal Boost Bonfire, I just don't feel like that's compensation for anything, especially when ANet have given everyone a free Communal Boost Bonfire recently and are giving us all a free Communal Boost Bonfire on Friday, 15 May!

  • foku.3804foku.3804 Member

    If these are the compensation rewards chosen by Anet, they should have been reversed - everyone who was affected should have gotten the mount and then on top of that those who for whatever reason were online during the disconnects also get the bonfire. I find that far more reasonable and logical.

  • fth.3192fth.3192 Member
    edited May 14, 2020

    I was online before and after the roll back and haven't had a bonfire or mount come through. So im not happy about any of it haha

  • @fth.3192 said:
    I was online before and after the roll back and haven't had a bonfire or mount come through. So im not happy about any of it haha

    Yeah I've logged in-game this evening and got nothing, guess it's going to take them a few days to get it all sorted.

  • AkaRyupl.4859AkaRyupl.4859 Member
    edited May 14, 2020

    In my opinion compensation system was really unfair. Yes - it's compensation not reward. Anet punished people, who behaved reasonable and did not played during Monday, while rewarded recless people, who just log in (instead turning off client servers earlier). Heck I did not even got that ekhm bonefire yet.
    Also speaking that players, who did not log in were not affected, is huge understatement. I was worried about all my progress from weekend, skins I got as a drop and lost posibility to play SAB. Not even mentioning even daily rewards and quests. What I get for being reasonable? Bonefire I won't use at all. Anet treated us - players - unevenly, promoting risky behaviour, not responsible one.

  • I lost SAB progress. Missed out a SAB daily. Lost items and gold. Spent 30 dollars a week before the crash or so. Got no compensation as far as I know.

    Wiered. Do I need to cry out loud with a ticket and post or should you reward players who are understanding and non toxic to the issue?

  • i don't logging on monday because on forum there's many post that suggest to not login... i hope anet change and do the skin mount to everyone... xd

  • Then there is my little story.

    Logged in on Monday, unaware of any rollbacks and excited to turn my 400+ bubble baubles into food to sell. All that ecto salvaging later I turn them all into food and put them up on the trading post for higher than buy price. I go about my day noticing after they were put up that there was a rollback. I then choose to not play anymore that day to prevent any loses. Or so I thought.

    Que the reset and the weekend rollback being restored. I am restored to a time where I had already traded the baubles in and put the food up. But the food had already been sold but no gold came into the post.

    I logged a ticket and the matter is being investigated. No reply for over 24 hours. Ok cool they are busy. Probably. But low behold, what is this in my mailbox?

    A communal bonfire. No licence. No gold. No baubles.

    A communal bonfire.

    An approximate 200 gold. For a bonfire.

    -curtain closes-

  • Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I just got an ingame mail with both of the items even though I didn't know I was eligibel for the mount license as I only logged in shortly on Monday to check some stuff and re-pickup login rewards and sell some stuff because I thought the rollback couldn't be fixed anymore.
    However in my honest opinion I think that EVERYONE should get noth items. Not just those who logged in during a specific time on Monday. I think everyone who was affected by the rollback deserves a license. It's just a little unfair what Anet decided here.
    I have to admit, I feel a little guilty and bad for myself and the others who didn't get anything.
    I hope the decision will be reconsidered. <3

    Again, I feel very sad for for everyonyone else and I think everyone deserves a free skin consided also what happend way before the recent events.

    For example: look at eso. They give free eso plus for an ENTIRE week for free.

    I'm Hunter, he/him
    Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/charactersgw2

  • Marta.2491Marta.2491 Member
    edited May 15, 2020

    Yea, i log into the game just to my character select menu then saw my chars got rollback and exit the game asap. Also to make this easier for anet and geeting boonfire for this while other my friends was afk in LA and got mount skin :)))) So Faiiiiiir

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    My partner bought all of those mounts the day before the announcement (wouldnt have with the knowledge of them giving a free license) and now got a useless mount selection license.

    I specifically didn't log in because I knew about the rollback and issues and was expecting some kind of downtime/fix. I don't have the mount skins and would like them.

    Guess I'll die.

    Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.

  • Islyn.8019Islyn.8019 Member ✭✭

    I would just like them to tell us when mailing out is done, so I know what happened to me ^^

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lodjur.1284 said:
    My partner bought all of those mounts the day before the announcement (wouldnt have with the knowledge of them giving a free license) and now got a useless mount selection license.

    I specifically didn't log in because I knew about the rollback and issues and was expecting some kind of downtime/fix. I don't have the mount skins and would like them.

    Guess I'll die.

    Since its so close ask to get one of them refuned so the gift aint wasted,

  • Logged in right now to check and to my surprise I did get a mail with both mount skin Licence and Communal Boost Bonfire. Mail where 5 hours old according to mail info. Thank you ANet!

    It might be that their server need some time send it out. Check your inbox (mail) and make sure that you do not have 10 mail occupying your inbox. I removed some mail yesterday just to be sure that it wasn't blocking any new mail. With several characters (a new toon that you level up) and doing Story parts it is easy to fill up your inbox for mail as each story step will send a new mail to what to do next, map points do also trigger some messages and purchasing gems and adding items can also occupy inbox with two mails from just one purchase (like upgrading account to Delux). One where you get items and one that just state that have bought something.

    Now I am happy again! Good work ANet! <3

  • I'm in the same boat of waking up, received the news, and didn't log in. As did many others I know as well. I was really happy when Anet finally took the server down for maintenance and I'm completely OK with them taking more than a day to fix the problem, as long as they can restore the weekend progress. Because, at that point, it's what matters the most. In the end though, splitting the community like this and providing the license only to those who log in while others who stayed offline was left the rest out feels like a slap in the face and really leave me with a bad taste. Honestly speaking, I couldn't care less about the skins, but it's the feeling of being tossed aside and getting a communal bonfire while also being similarly affected (directly and indirectly) that makes feel really feel disgruntled and don't feel like playing due to this treatment.

  • @Cynder.2509 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I just got an ingame mail with both of the items even though I didn't know I was eligibel for the mount license as I only logged in shortly on Monday to check some stuff and re-pickup login rewards and sell some stuff because I thought the rollback couldn't be fixed anymore.
    However in my honest opinion I think that EVERYONE should get noth items. Not just those who logged in during a specific time on Monday. I think everyone who was affected by the rollback deserves a license. It's just a little unfair what Anet decided here.
    I have to admit, I feel a little guilty and bad for myself and the others who didn't get anything.
    I hope the decision will be reconsidered. <3

    Again, I feel very sad for for everyonyone else and I think everyone deserves a free skin consided also what happend way before the recent events.

    For example: look at eso. They give free eso plus for an ENTIRE week for free.

    I haven't seen ZeniMax (ESO) give any compensation voluntary for downtime during server problems, so that is new to me! They also had some serious problems (server had to be taken down several times for long duration - days) for some time ago and there where a large out cry like here! I was a subscriber so we where a bit upset about this as we did loose paid playtime (30 day or more depending on sub). I can't recall if we got something in the end, but it wasn't on the same scale as ANets skin for a mount worth 1200 Gems.

    I know they have a campaign for returning player as I received that offer once which used to get back in game. In that regard ANet have been more forthcoming and have better CS (they respond and also fix things).

    Free ESO+ is a campaign ZeniMax have on regular basis, so it is not the same as when something have been messed up with their servers and you can't access game for days.

  • Zulvio.4520Zulvio.4520 Member ✭✭

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    No, there's just no delete function on the forum; it's common practice to snip the contents of your post on forums that disallow deletion, especially if one hadn't been quoted yet. I wasn't really wrong, I just changed my opinion based on an understanding. I realized this within a few minutes of posting, so it's plenty fine.

    Of course you where wrong and you know it, there's no changing mind when it comes to simple facts. But you justifying this in every possible way only makes me feel that you are never "really wrong".

  • Zulvio.4520Zulvio.4520 Member ✭✭

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    BDO does give out recompense to EVERYONE, especially when they have unexpected issues. I got rewards from last time this happened in BDO even though i wasn't even playing, i just logged in to collect the goodies and logged out, that was my play time in BDO for 3 months during that period.
    Can't speak about the other ones though.

    You've said you don't know what other mmo's so I gave you examples. If you played BDO you should be well aware that they take down the servers every wednesday for 4 hours for maintenance yet you said "anything released after 2009 shouldn't have any down times for updates or maintenance."
    You are denying yourself.

  • @Cynder.2509 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I just got an ingame mail with both of the items even though I didn't know I was eligibel for the mount license as I only logged in shortly on Monday to check some stuff and re-pickup login rewards and sell some stuff because I thought the rollback couldn't be fixed anymore.
    However in my honest opinion I think that EVERYONE should get noth items. Not just those who logged in during a specific time on Monday. I think everyone who was affected by the rollback deserves a license. It's just a little unfair what Anet decided here.
    I have to admit, I feel a little guilty and bad for myself and the others who didn't get anything.
    I hope the decision will be reconsidered. <3

    Again, I feel very sad for for everyonyone else and I think everyone deserves a free skin consided also what happend way before the recent events.

    For example: look at eso. They give free eso plus for an ENTIRE week for free.

    Might want to learn the difference between a marketing campaign and compensation for some problem(s)! ZeniMax haven't given compensation for anything for quite some time now, though they do run regular marketing campaigns where they give all accounts a free week of ESO+ to try and encourage players to pay for ESO+. If you already pay for ESO+ these campaigns give you absolutely nothing, you still pay for the week that everyone else gets for free!

  • McArba.1564McArba.1564 Member ✭✭

    The whole week is pretty rough. First we got rollback, then connection issues, today I can't play because of terrible lags.

  • ReaverKane.7598ReaverKane.7598 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zulvio.4520 said:

    @ReaverKane.7598 said:

    BDO does give out recompense to EVERYONE, especially when they have unexpected issues. I got rewards from last time this happened in BDO even though i wasn't even playing, i just logged in to collect the goodies and logged out, that was my play time in BDO for 3 months during that period.
    Can't speak about the other ones though.

    You've said you don't know what other mmo's so I gave you examples. If you played BDO you should be well aware that they take down the servers every wednesday for 4 hours for maintenance yet you said "anything released after 2009 shouldn't have any down times for updates or maintenance."
    You are denying yourself.

    Well, i played BDO very briefly, and never experienced down time, so i forgot about those.
    Still doesn't mean Arena Net is exceptional. Since we're talking examples, i've been playing Warframe frequently recently. Not only does it not have maintnance downtime, but they also regularly give away stuff to players, they give out up to 75% discounts on premium currency prices as a log in reward, and will generally communicate with the players when there is a problem.
    Also, when there's stuff amiss due to error on their behalf, they will compensate everyone equally and generously.
    For example, recently in an event they hosted, the scoring system was buggy, and some players didn't get alloted their proper score. As compensation, they gave everyone 2x their previous score.
    Sure for those that didn't suffer the bug it would be a higher compensation than for others, but because it was a blanket measure, it was generally well received.
    And that's what you want with these kinds of things, to make people happy and forget the issue. Not keep the issue in discussion for another week.

  • Cronos.6532Cronos.6532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Zulvio.4520 said:

    @Cronos.6532 said:
    No, there's just no delete function on the forum; it's common practice to snip the contents of your post on forums that disallow deletion, especially if one hadn't been quoted yet. I wasn't really wrong, I just changed my opinion based on an understanding. I realized this within a few minutes of posting, so it's plenty fine.

    Of course you where wrong and you know it, there's no changing mind when it comes to simple facts. But you justifying this in every possible way only makes me feel that you are never "really wrong".

    🤔🤔 I don't even remember what either person said

    signature

  • So today we get free bonfire in gem shop... That makes this "compensation" look even worse. Seriously - they should have extended SAB for a week and it would look much better, than giving bonfire...
    Btw I play mobile game - Azur Lane. Every time there is server maintaince issue (and it happens quite often), they give out free premium currency as apology. Seriously there is something wrong, when mobile game compensations are much better than one you'd get from PC game....

  • Ray Koopa.2354Ray Koopa.2354 Member ✭✭✭

    I not only got a free bonfire from the shop, but also one in a mail, saying it belongs to one of my other characters... uh no, I'm playing on NA and didn't lose anything?

  • Some of my friend received the compensation twice (so, two licences...), "super unfair" is light now :P

  • @foku.3804 said:
    If these are the compensation rewards chosen by Anet, they should have been reversed - everyone who was affected should have gotten the mount and then on top of that those who for whatever reason were online during the disconnects also get the bonfire. I find that far more reasonable and logical.

    This makes far more sense yes!
    Or just everyone gets a bonfire, hairstyle makeover or mount adoption license, like 300 to 400 gems and those on monday get another.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    I know people that got the license just cuz of having logged in 5min at monday, and those who didnt logged in ,but still lost progress, only got a bonfire in the mail.
    And some players even get their compensation twice.

    This is a stupid joke. I dont wanna be a part of the community that gets fooled by a stupid problem that was related to bad development. We have enough of those jokes.
    You(the devs) are making everything worse than the actual rollback would have done.

  • Still no response from ArenaNet. As always just staying out of touch with their community.
    And here i thought there were signs it's getting better.
    Splitting the community and enrageing a lot of the toughful and communicative members, that stay in touch with others in this MMO. While favoring those with disabled chat, that didn't or didn't want to realize that they lose progress.
    Lection for the next time: Send your items to other accounts, make screenshot of every progress you did and demand in thousends of tickets to get it back. That's what ANet is supporting here.

  • @Grizzly UK.1209 said:

    @fth.3192 said:
    I was online before and after the roll back and haven't had a bonfire or mount come through. So im not happy about any of it haha

    Yeah I've logged in-game this evening and got nothing, guess it's going to take them a few days to get it all sorted.

    Logged in-game this evening (Friday) and still nothing in the mail. Seems like some get double of the License and the Bonfire, some get one or both and others just get nothing at all! :'( I did get the freebie Communal Boost Bonfire that all players can get from the BLTC, just nothing in the mail. :'(

    Frankly this is really starting to feel like a major screw-up by ANet, it's like they sat down and worked out "What's the worst thing we can give as compensation?" and they figured "Hey, we're giving everyone a free Communal Boost Bonfire on Friday 15th May, why not just give all EU players another one as well?".

  • Najten.2418Najten.2418 Member ✭✭

    This decision feels just as kitten as the decision to say "thank you" to HoT buyers by giving them a choice of skins to unlock, and if you already unlocked them by spending gems then you got nothing. Can't say I'm surprised at the "unfairness" yet again. Seems those in charge of the rewards don't even look at everyone's point of view, concider all possibilities, or care about how they're perceived.

    And no, I don't even want the stupid Select License, as I've already spent gems buying ALL of the skins and it would, yet again, be a completely useless item to me. Maybe instead of giving out items that allow you to select from a limited pool of items that we might have already unlocked, give us gems so we can choose ourselves?? Or something that can be redeemed for something unique.

    I should just stop spending gems at this game it seems, cuz it does nothing but lessen any "reward" or "compensation" you're given..

  • This is really weird.
    I got skin & bf on one account I logged in earlier this week during the rollback(mostly afk in LA). Today I receive another bf (from anet, ingame mail) but no mount skin. Then there is other people who received two mount skins.
    This account was created on the Thursday before the rollback....so imagine how much progress I lost....

    On my other accounts (more than 5 years old) I only get 1 bf(or 2 or 3 by now) because I did not login (because of rollback happening while being on first account and people saying they lost stuff.)
    People who logged in 15 days ago then went on holidays and came back yesterday also got the bf.

    Now there is a free bf on the tp....

    So this is Anets idea of compensation or are they just trying get people even more upset about how they managed this whole situation?

    Make me really consider if I will continue playing. Sure as hell will not spent money any more on it.

  • Phoe.6829Phoe.6829 Member

    I agree with Aechidna.3084. I did log in and try to log in and I only received a communa bonfire. It is super unfair that people who did log in during the time or did not to help the servers get punished while they got asked not to log in. SO arenanet punishes people for obeying them. It makes the game extremely unfair to give some people 1200 gems and others not. What annoys me on top of that is that arenanet doesnt reply to support tickets, I only get automatical emails that state: these are the requirements ofr a bonfire and these are the requirements for a mount license. That does nt solve ANYTHING. From a customer support system I expect a person to answer my questions, I am not an idiot I could read on the website that those were the requirements. I find that very very poor support. I am so done with this game and the unfairness of it. This actually makes me want to sell or delete my GW2 account. It makes me hate myself for being treated unequally. Like arenanet telling me i deserve to be punisch and i deserve to to be treated unequal.

  • @Najten.2418 said:
    This decision feels just as kitten as the decision to say "thank you" to HoT buyers by giving them a choice of skins to unlock, and if you already unlocked them by spending gems then you got nothing. Can't say I'm surprised at the "unfairness" yet again. Seems those in charge of the rewards don't even look at everyone's point of view, concider all possibilities, or care about how they're perceived.

    And no, I don't even want the stupid Select License, as I've already spent gems buying ALL of the skins and it would, yet again, be a completely useless item to me. Maybe instead of giving out items that allow you to select from a limited pool of items that we might have already unlocked, give us gems so we can choose ourselves?? Or something that can be redeemed for something unique.

    I should just stop spending gems at this game it seems, cuz it does nothing but lessen any "reward" or "compensation" you're given..

    Have you tried to contact CS and get that Licence (which you have from bought before this happened) replaced with something else or Gems? It could be worth a try at least. It would be the proper way to keep players that buy things for real money to keep paying for items (Gems) and still feel safe that if something happens and there is a compensation like this that it also will be of use for those who already have that item from before.

    I understand that ANet have a bit more to deal with during COVID-19 and all that it messes up with how things normally are running for a company, but they have to adopt a better strategy for when things like this happens and give options for player to pick what they can get in compensation. Anyway it is up to ANet to fix this mess.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    Come on anet, just give everyone that was online at monday and the weekend before the stupid mount license...

  • Hello this is my first post in all these years. I played the weekend before the "rollback problem". Due to real life matters i logged in on Monday late at night when the EU servers were down. Because of this problems that werent depend from me i "loose" some days from GW2. I am an old GW player and fun and i play GW since GW1. I have no idea if i lost anything with the rollback problem but I think that everyone in the EU servers that were down must get the "Welcome back - Mount skin" . It is a matter of recognise our support and say thank you and we are sorry about that. Thank you for your comprehension.

  • Pomdepin.7068Pomdepin.7068 Member ✭✭

    Anet, please stop the drama, sooner is better. Send everyone who logged in last weekend a mount licence. Topic closed.
    Btw, servers are down again this morning...

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    @Iyvathae.3482 said:
    Everyone lost progress in a way – where is the difference between a rolled back (SAB) daily and one that was not completed because Anet took the servers down before the player could log in?

    Easy, one of them required a person to play the game actually.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    "For the players who were not able to log in during our downtime the Communal Boost Bonfire is something we hope everyone can share with each other."

    The bonbon is not compensation for lost stuff, gold or anything like that. For those you should get in touch with support and hope they can resolve it.

  • Iyvathae.3482Iyvathae.3482 Member ✭✭

    Can you please show me the statement where Anet mentions that players that lost gold on the trading post should contact support to get it back and receive a compensation?

    Do you really think that people that did lose gold did not think to open a support ticket?
    Do you know what support does?
    They do nothing and then they close your ticket.

  • The compensation for everyone who didn't directly lose anything because of the rollback felt like a slap in the face, if I'm honest.

    It really did feel like those of us who chose not to log in (to preserve our accounts, or lessen the strain on the servers, or for whatever reason) were punished for our actions.

    That said, I probably could've taken it on the chin if the servers went back to normal - but this morning, we were struck with login issues. I'm erring on the side of nobody getting any compensation for this, but it's sad that my first thought was, "I should probably try to log in so I don't miss out on any rewards."

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    We all ,who were affected by the rollback, are still waiting for the license-compensation.
    Maybe some people shouldnt have get it 2-3 times, while others get none?

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure everyone who was gonna get one got one by now. If you got the bonfire then that's it but maybe if you EU and got nothing so far they aren't done but it's been a week. You seem to post a bit hoping but no matter how many you make here isn't going to get you the mount or 2 or 3 if you didn't log in during that window

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    I'm sure everyone who was gonna get one got one by now. If you got the bonfire then that's it but maybe if you EU and got nothing so far they aren't done but it's been a week. You seem to post a bit hoping but no matter how many you make here isn't going to get you the mount or 2 or 3 if you didn't log in during that window

    Im just making sure that the favoring of a part of the community doesnt expire. Maybe theyll do it right and many players, including friends and guildies, wont stop playing cuz of that.

    They made it even worse than the rollback could have done.