Make Agony Infusions account bound — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

Make Agony Infusions account bound

The fact that anyone can buy agony infusions on trading post makes lower tier fractals pointless. Consequently players with no fractal experience can start directly to do tier 4 fractals. It adds up some frustration in tier 4 fractals for them and their teammates.
I suggest making agony infusions account bound so it is not possible to buy those in the trading post which will force new fractaleers to start learning fractals when they are supposed to start. On the counterpart vetaran players who no longer need agony resistane will suffer of not being able to sell those. To compensate a good solution would be to make the base price of agony infusons a little higher so it is profitable to sell them to NPCs. What do you think ?

Comments

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People would still need ascended armor/weapons and sockets in rings/back to have room for enough AR to t4.
    Plus that you need to build up your cleared through the difficulties to be able to open t4 fractals. Though that is a lesser issue due to being able to latch onto those with it open.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2020

    This won't achieve the results you're searching for. I did a T4 fractal a month back where a Reaper with Fractal Savant did 6k DPS while I did around 16k on the same fight, also as a Reaper. That player was consistently just above or below the Alacrene on every fight that evening.

    There are plenty of players in T4 who have no business being there, and there is nothing you or I can do about it so long as we use the LFG.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    You can craft ascended gear for another purpose. Directly buying ascneded gear with Magnetite Shards is also an option. Ascended gear is a must for fractals but many people got it even if they don't play fractals. Agony Infusions is the fractal requirement, not the ascended gear.
    I have guildmates that have never been in low tier fractals. They have unlocked all levels by just doing random tier 4s with guildmates. The level system has never been an issue, it doesn't work at all.
    It is an issue because some players have no idea how Mai Trin works in tier 4s. It shouldn't be like that. Today I was in 2 groups that failed the skull mechanics in Observatory. And while I explain the mechanics to newbies, veteran players just leave the team not willing to play with newbies and I don't blame them. In the end I wasn't able to carry alone and left for the third group. It is possible to carry low dps team that knows mechanics, but it becomes quite difficult when they deal low dps and fail the mechanics on top of that. Meanwhile low dps in low level fractals is forgiving.
    Even if all of those weren't an issue: tier 1, tier 2 and tier 3 fractals make no sense. Especially tier 2. When I do fractal trains in guild, we do everything at tier 1 to learn mechanics then directly jump to tier 3 or 4. If my guildmates dont have gold we go to tier 3 because with just easy to get trinkets and pots you can get to 96 agony resistence with just +9 infusions which lets you do all tier 3 fractals no problem. It is very easy to abuse the system.
    In the end the only reason agony resistance is in making use of pots. Agony makes us be stronger. Isn't it ironic ?

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I did a T4 fractal a month back where a Reaper with Fractal Savant did 6k DPS while I did around 16k on the same fight, also as a Reaper. That player was consistently just above or below the Alacrene on every fight that evening.

    Ohh I feel your pain. It is always funny to see reapers roleplaying in fractals. I don't know how it is possible to do so low dps with reaper, but I see lots of those. Maybe they use some harrier gear or smth.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2020

    Currently working on Fractal God.
    One thing you need for that is a +16 Agony Infusion, or in other words: 32.000 +1 Infusions.
    And thats just for the last step.
    You also need +13,+14 and +15 infusions for the previous stages, which adds up to over 61.000 +1 Infusions.

    Have fun farming them all by yourself :)

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah I've been noticing some strange things in the higher tier fractals as well, had a run a couple nights ago where people would run in all directions trying to solo mobs, standing in mechanics that need to be dodged or you (should) get one shot. Not sure how they got into these levels with bad gear/playing like it's open world PvE. I think rather then mess with infusions they should hard lock the tiers so that you can only do something in tier 2,3,4 if you've completed all of tier 1. More of a grind but it would force people to learn how to play the game before jumping into higher tiers.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Strider.7849 said:
    Yeah I've been noticing some strange things in the higher tier fractals as well

    My guess is that there are many returning players now. They got the gold but not the knowledge.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    You will get inexp players no matter what requirements they place on things, people will always find ways to be dumb and absolutely inadequate unless you gate t4 so hard that very few players can even get into it.

    Also i don't think it's terrible to have low gating - if you can call it that. The gear grind for fractals is a HUGE wall that some ppl who are great at the game are unwilling to make, and there are also very talented players who engage in raids and pvp etc who would be very capable at t4 as soon as they learn the basic mechanics at t1- consequent teirs are a matter of becoming familiar with instabs, really. I would much prefer some of those "fractal level is t2, but very experienced raider" players than -some- t4 pugs lol.

    I also think there are definitely players who did go through fractals naturally and still have no real idea how the game/the fractals work, gw2 is not great at teaching its players how to fight effectively. There a small handful of fractal mechanics that, had i not been told about them, I wouldn't know how they worked even after doing that fractal lots of times (like literally every mechanic on volcanic boss), along with just general basics of combat that some will never realise is important until some player says "stack here for heals + boons" or "pull these together so our attacks kill multiple things at once". Infact, i think people would learn a lot more about fractals doing strikes than doing t1 fractals just because some strikes are specifically designed to teach basic mechanics of the game- i really love how the very first strike teaches stacking, for example.

    Now, i would love account bound AR but on a differnet sense - all my AR is locked in condition gear that im unwilling to both extract and create ascended armor on a power character, and man do i cringe at using condi... I would love the ability to bring new characters into fractals without sinking tonnes of gold into set up xD But that's not really the point of this suggestion.

    I guess my point is, gating fractals does not resolve the problem of people not knowing how to play the game. Revamp fractals to teach basic game mechanics, and maybe i'd consider them a much better learning tool for t4. (ofc, earlier in the games life dungeons were the precursor to fractals, and some dungeons do have moments where they teach players things, so...)

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1)we already have fractal level limitation.
    2)want have good party ? make own static. Don't try wait from people what they don't want do.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I doubt the majority of those problem players are completely new players who just bought 150 AR on the TP and then jumped straight into T4, rather than just being low skilled players who got carried a lot.

    Regardless, if you wanted to gate Fractals more, requiring players to progress though all the levels one by one would probably be a better solution than messing with the AR economy.
    Not only would you not have to mess with more soulbound stuff, it would also prevent players from just farming the shortest/easiest Fractals or T1 over and over for AR and then still jumping into T4 unprepared, rather than progressing through all of the Fractals with more and more mechanics/Instabilities.

    Would be a nightmare to LFG for new players though, so not sure if I'm thrilled about that idea either.

    GW2 just needs to do a better job at teaching it's players the fundamentals across the board and allow for less opportunities for people to get carried through content.
    As it is now, your best option is just to add good players to your friendlist and/or to form a static.

    Otherwise there is always the chance to get bad players.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I doubt the majority of those problem players are completely new players who just bought 150 AR on the TP and then jumped straight into T4, rather than just being low skilled players who got carried a lot.

    The fact that it is possible to get carried like that is exactly my issue.

    Regardless, if you wanted to gate Fractals more, requiring players to progress though all the levels one by one would probably be a better solution than messing with the AR economy.

    The problem isn't only that players are bad. I personally have no problems with that. I actually like carrying noobs and got my static and kp for CM teams anyway. Problem is that all those lower tiers serve no cause. And speaking of KP. Agony resistance would be an awesome tool to replace KP instead of doing what it does now.

    Would be a nightmare to LFG for new players though, so not sure if I'm thrilled about that idea either.

    It is a nightmare now already. With the returning players nowdays so many players ragequit because they don't wanna deal with noobs. And there comes my latest post lol. False fractal ads in lfg...

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    I doubt the majority of those problem players are completely new players who just bought 150 AR on the TP and then jumped straight into T4, rather than just being low skilled players who got carried a lot.

    The fact that it is possible to get carried like that is exactly my issue.

    Regardless, if you wanted to gate Fractals more, requiring players to progress though all the levels one by one would probably be a better solution than messing with the AR economy.

    The problem isn't only that players are bad. I personally have no problems with that. I actually like carrying noobs and got my static and kp for CM teams anyway. Problem is that all those lower tiers serve no cause. And speaking of KP. Agony resistance would be an awesome tool to replace KP instead of doing what it does now.

    Would be a nightmare to LFG for new players though, so not sure if I'm thrilled about that idea either.

    It is a nightmare now already. With the returning players nowdays so many players ragequit because they don't wanna deal with noobs. And there comes my latest post lol. False fractal ads in lfg...

    While I am sympathetic to your issue and your goal to make lower Tier's matter more and to provide meaningful progression, that doesn't address my critique with your proposed idea in that players could instead of buying AR off the TP just farm easy T1 Fractals and dailies until they have 150 AR, and then still jump into T4 completely unprepared making that problem persist, having messed with the whole AR economy for nothing and introducing unnecessary account bound limitations, as well reducing player freedom, like premade groups deciding to gift a friend who is new to Fractals AR to play together with them, not minding them lacking knowledge of the mechanics and teaching them.

    By making AR account bound you still get similar or the same downsides, just with additional limitations.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 14, 2020

    :facepalm
    oh .. this discussion, like more others, again converted to "we have perfect game, but please, give us another people!!!!"

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭

    They just need to show the players AR and Max Fractal Level under character. It wont solve all the problems but it would solve sum for the people that it matters to.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Don't you need to raise your personal fractal level before you can join T4 groups in the LFG? Or did they get rid of that? If people want to buy agony resists off the TP then can find guildies or a static that will take them, that's no skin off my back. Just as long as randos are held to some standard.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Arcteryx.2850 said:
    Don't you need to raise your personal fractal level before you can join T4 groups in the LFG? Or did they get rid of that? If people want to buy agony resists off the TP then can find guildies or a static that will take them, that's no skin off my back. Just as long as randos are held to some standard.

    Technically you can easily bypass that if you have someone in your party that has t4s open even if you got no personal levels. 2nd you can do lvl 100 100 times and open all lower fractals without ever doing them. Right now with so many returning players looking for easy loot: there are really many players in t4 pugs that have no idea of fractal mechanics that is a fact.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    i also thought that t4 would be harder, but turns out its just gated behind ar. If a player can handle it with tp infusions, i dont see any reason to hold em back grinding content that doesnt interest em as much. if theyre not pulling their weight, you should discuss with the group if you wish to carry or not. people generally like to pretend that its harder than it is to feel better about themselves, same goes for most raiding in all MMOs.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭
    edited May 25, 2020

    @Tiilimon.6094 said:
    i also thought that t4 would be harder, but turns out its just gated behind ar. If a player can handle it with tp infusions, i dont see any reason to hold em back grinding content that doesnt interest em as much. if theyre not pulling their weight, you should discuss with the group if you wish to carry or not. people generally like to pretend that its harder than it is to feel better about themselves, same goes for most raiding in all MMOs.

    Well here I am to tell you that not everybody has the same skill, and for some people it is hard to hop into those. If they are not interested in fractal content they shouldn't play it in the 1st place.
    However the real difficulty in fractals is not really completing them (there are still groups that struggle to complete specific fractals btw), the difficulty in fractals is in COMPLETEING THEM FAST. Speed is what matters most.
    If you are not speedrunning fractals you are losing gold, it is more worth to go do silverwastes chest farm if your group is doing t4 fractals in 2 hours.
    If some players are not pulling their weight they should do guild train runs or lower the tier. Because other players lose time because of them and losing time is losing gold.

    While it has nothing to do with the my post I will continue talking about difficulty if that interests you. I don't know who pretends what, I can tell you this: it is geniunly hard and sometimes impossible to carry bad groups in fractal CMs (and raids go the same). However being carried by a very good group is easy. I think you have only been in the 2nd category if you think that everything is easy.

    EDIT: Just read the post above again pls. It is not about "very hight difficulty of t4s" lol... it is about the point of lower tier fractals.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    I thought the point was to account bind infusions? Imo, that is a terribly bad idea.

    For some players speed doesn't matter at all, like I don't give a kitten if it takes an hour or 15 minutes, as I don't really care about gold and hand all of it away to other people as I gain it.

    I play to have fun myself and to help other people achieve their goals.

    You also seem quite unfriendly and seem to only put value in your own opinion, so farewell :)

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @Tiilimon.6094 said:
    I thought the point was to account bind infusions? Imo, that is a terribly bad idea.

    Read again. I didn't write anything difficulty. And if you think it is a terrible idea give a reason why. Your feedback is not clear.

    For some players speed doesn't matter at all, like I don't give a kitten if it takes an hour or 15 minutes, as I don't really care about gold and hand all of it away to other people as I gain it.

    For those players there is tier 1 fractals. You don't need agony infusions there. If you don't care about gold and claim to be a big donator you should go help those unexperienced players in tier 1. If you are looking for difficulty maybe tier 3 will suit you it is more difficult than tier 4s because of lack of experience. Meantime the big majority of players do tier 4 fractals exclusively for loot. Loot is the only reason that fractals is not a dead content like dungeons.

    I play to have fun myself and to help other people achieve their goals.

    You will be of more help in lower tier anyway.

    You also seem quite unfriendly and seem to only put value in your own opinion, so farewell :)

    What is that supposed to mean ? Do you know me personally or what ? And even if I were an "unfriendly person", what that has to do with the topic ? And if I didn't value other player's opinion I wouldn't make this post in the 1st place. I made this post to see what community thinks about it. Stop trolling pls.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    This will make it harder for everyone and it won't prevent inexperienced players from playing T4 fractals.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    We keep telling you that its a terrible idea and give reasons that you're ignoring and don't even notice when youre being a mean elitist. I also run daily t4s multiple times when the instabilities are funny, and I've healed all challenge modes quite quickly plenty of times too.
    I also have time to help new, unskilled, time constrained and disabled players clear all the content they wish, and think they don't need to stick to lower tier fractals to please people who wish to speedrun. They seem to clear T4s just fine too, and even CMs, sometimes they just need some help and extra group effort to do it.

  • VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    how to kill fractals for good:
    a) make AR account bound, so lots of people are forced to grind (what most people hate)
    b) make AR account bound, so people, who just need an odd AR infusion to infuse some ring or something, have to play fractals, while hating it.
    this will result in:
    extreme toxicity since two groups of players hate what they are doing, another group of players drown in kitten AR infusions they can not get rid off and overall misery.

    Great idea, more of this please. Also maybe you could come up with an idea to kill raids for good, so ANET finally comes to its senses and makes the shiny legendary armor available to those, who spend THOUSANDS of hours in wvw/pvp and got only kitten?

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We have been there before. Everyone was forced to grind their trinkets and AR for ages before being able to progress. Your personal level used to matter a lot more and all that. Never stopped anyone from performing terribly in the higher tiers. The entire system was changed for a reason.

    Also, are we talking about changing ALL +9/+5 infusions into account bound items? I am sure people are going to be pleased to longer be able to trade the infusions they sunk thousands (sometimes tens of thousands) of gold into, especially if they do not even play Fractals themselves. Removing the AR part off of those infusions might be another option. But then there are those players who ended up buying a set of tradeable infusions like Ghostly Infusions with the intend to use them as a slightly cheaper alternative. Those guys would feel rather ripped off.

    In short, too many downsides for such an uncertain outcome.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    (...) so people, who just need an odd AR infusion to infuse some ring or something, have to play fractals, while hating it.

    why would people need infusions if they hate fractals and dont want to play them in the first place? the only reason to get AR infusions is if you want to play fractals!
    if you only need them to infuse rings so you can use stat infusions... dude, you need one single +1 infusion for that. if i wanted to exaggerate i would say its faster to run a quick lvl 1 fractal than buying them from the tp, lol.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    Well people are calling me a mean elitist here. Let me tell you something it is not hard for me personally to get a good team and do all my fractals fast. What helps me with that is my guild and my cm KP. Normally KP works well in that. Hell if I am slacking to do cms I could lfg for regular t4s and ask for KP.
    So just to clarify here it is not about me. I know how to bypass bad players. In the end blocklist exists too.
    However when I play with a friend that doesn't have any KP, I have to lfg without any KPs and surprisingly end up getting people who say "It is the 1st time I am in this fractal". I don't care about how bad he is. The fact that a person is doing a specific fractal 1st time in tier 4 is problematic. If I were a mean evil elitist person this wouldn't be a problem to me, I would just kick him and never think about making a post like this. But my hands got tired of writing the same thing everyday for years.

    1st. Getting a full set of +9ar infusions is not a grind. Doing daily tier 4 fractals IS a grind. And if there were nothing to grind for I would have quitted the game way before. Grinding is the base of any MMO, I have no problem with that anyway. I have never bought any agony infusions until I've decided to go for Mist Attunements and it is only because I've sold many before. And I got many characters geared fully with +9 agony infusions.. All of those were never grinded. You get tons of ar infusions by just patiently playing fractals. Selling those is also another story.

    2nd. Why lower tiers is a thing ? Why is there tier 1 2 and 3 ? What is the point of that ?

    3rd. If you want mighty infusions nobody forces you to play fractals, you cann get WvW mighty infusions too. They are easier to get.

    4th. Raids weren't in the topic.

  • @Hyrai.8720 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    (...) so people, who just need an odd AR infusion to infuse some ring or something, have to play fractals, while hating it.

    why would people need infusions if they hate fractals and dont want to play them in the first place? the only reason to get AR infusions is if you want to play fractals!
    if you only need them to infuse rings so you can use stat infusions... dude, you need one single +1 infusion for that. if i wanted to exaggerate i would say its faster to run a quick lvl 1 fractal than buying them from the tp, lol.

    you have half a douzend chars with 3-4 different stat sets, playing around testing stuff etc pp. So you need a lot of attuned+infused rings.

    And you need the stat infusions, if you are serious about non-fractal stuff.

    So, maybe you should join some hardcore wvw guild. Or hardcore raid guild.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    1.: you definitely do not need stat infusions. you're better off learning your rotation rather than throwing money out the window for infusions.
    2.: if you want to play 6-9 chars with 3-4 builds each, the agony infusions are the least of your problems...

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    you have half a douzend chars with 3-4 different stat sets, playing around testing stuff etc pp. So you need a lot of attuned+infused rings.
    And you need the stat infusions, if you are serious about non-fractal stuff.

    Lol that is funny even for me "the evil elitist". No, you don't need stat infusions to be serious. Just believe me you don't. It is a luxury to have, but the minmaxing is too big of a hustle and hardly even noticable. Just for comparison. Full set of mighty infuisons is the same as having 3 stacks of might.

    So, maybe you should join some hardcore wvw guild. Or hardcore raid guild.

    Well I can tell you I know some hardcore guilds that got some high requirements, but never seen one that required me to have stat infusions. Especially the "hardcore wvw guild" would rather require you to have wvw infusions not agony ones. It would make more sence right ?
    Still nothing to do with OP.

  • Robban.1256Robban.1256 Member ✭✭

    @Excursion.9752 said:
    They just need to show the players AR and Max Fractal Level under character. It wont solve all the problems but it would solve sum for the people that it matters to.

    You can already see players personal fractal lvl and AR. The ppls lvl you can see if you hover over any of the fractal lfg tier numbers and the AR you can see once you're inside the lobby or fractal

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle