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What meta do players want?

Broady.2358Broady.2358 Member ✭✭

I want to start by talking about what makes a build a "meta-build". A build that gives a high reward for the least amount of risk/effort is what makes a build meta. In every single game, this is the situation. Although, most players will agree that this isn't a great experience and the strongest builds that can output the most damage or out sustain everything should be the hardest to play. A meta will be completely different compared to high ranked players vs low ranked players but the statement still stands.

In the current PvP climate, it just feels that conditions are too easily stacked, re-applied and overall overperforming. I do not want to offer suggestions on what to nerf as I think offering an opinion of a players experience is a much more valuable form of feedback for the developers. Condition spam is not fun to play against, at least for me.

Personally, I enjoy a power focused meta as the game plays at a much faster pace. Also, seeing an enemies healthbar go from 100% to 0% in a second from a well timed team burst is incredibly satisfying for me.

We will never achieve true balance as it is pretty much impossible, instead we should have regularly shifting metas to keep the game fresh (yes, regularly). What kind of meta do we as a community want right now?

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Comments

  • Broady.2358Broady.2358 Member ✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"

    That is exactly what I mean when I say high amount of reward for least effort put in. If a build is able to perform multiple roles with minimal effort then that of course is meta! If we managed to remove this problem and had strict role based builds then a healthier meta would appear. There will always be a meta, as players will always gravitate to the best builds, if you get what I mean. The trick is for it to be a healthy meta, where player skill can actually be showcased!

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    every type of play should be represented to some degree. having a meta be this or that is part of the reason the game chases away players and why metas stale out after a certain amount of time.

    As I stated, achieving a balanced meta is near impossible in any game, especially in a MMORPG as developers can't please everyone. I think a meta that is ever changing is much more exciting. This may be the best we can hope for!

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"

    I believe OP is partially correct. In my experience, a meta build is one that, yes, has high reward for comparatively low effort, but also has the most adaptability. For instance: a node dueler build that was otherwise GODLY wouldn't be meta if it had no means of escape when pressured by 2 or 3 players.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    Everything, but not Bunker Meta.

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Imo, current meta is one of the more enjoyable metas i've been in. OHK burst+evade+invuln metas that we have had for years were frustrating. You had to swing heavily to either bunker or damage, nothing in between. Currently there is a definite balancing act between bunker and damage. While there are a few outliers that i would like to see tuned (nerf rev Infuse Light,nerf necro Eternal Life lifeforce gain, buff war/rampage), this meta is easily the most balanced between power, condi, and bunker we have ever had. As much as people complain about condi/bunker being strong, there are far more power builds at top teir than condi or bunker.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Broady.2358 said:
    I want to start by talking about what makes a build a "meta-build". A build that gives a high reward for the least amount of risk/effort is what makes a build meta. In every single game, this is the situation. Although, most players will agree that this isn't a great experience and the strongest builds that can output the most damage or out sustain everything should be the hardest to play. A meta will be completely different compared to high ranked players vs low ranked players but the statement still stands.

    In the current PvP climate, it just feels that conditions are too easily stacked, re-applied and overall overperforming. I do not want to offer suggestions on what to nerf as I think offering an opinion of a players experience is a much more valuable form of feedback for the developers. Condition spam is not fun to play against, at least for me.

    Personally, I enjoy a power focused meta as the game plays at a much faster pace. Also, seeing an enemies healthbar go from 100% to 0% in a second from a well timed team burst is incredibly satisfying for me.

    We will never achieve true balance as it is pretty much impossible, instead we should have regularly shifting metas to keep the game fresh (yes, regularly). What kind of meta do we as a community want right now?

    If I take away all stealth and teleports from you...I am sure you'd have not so much fun playing a "100 to 0" power build, if I take away all safeguards from this game...I am 100% sure that people would be much less "power burst" loving

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Broady.2358Broady.2358 Member ✭✭

    If I take away all stealth and teleports from you...I am sure you'd have not so much fun playing a "100 to 0" power build, if I take away all safeguards from this game...I am 100% sure that people would be much less "power burst" loving

    I think you mis-read slightly. I said I like seeing an enemies healthbar go from 100% to 0% in a second from a well timed team burst. I don't think any class should be able to one-shot :)

    Yes, I play Thief and I think the current D/P build is in a good place and doesn't need any buffs or nerfs. Condi-Thief on the other hand needs looked at, but thats a different topic in its own right.

    My thread is only to create a discussion on what meta people would like to see along with my reasons for not enjoying the current condi-meta.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

    FA against 2 teleporting builds is literally food, any combination of rev mesmer and thief makes your game borderline impossible

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All of them, and none of them. The issue is that "players" are not a single homogenous group. But if we go by tendency, seems more people tend to prefer power metas with lower sustain (aka not bunker metas). Probably comes down to bunker metas being a slog, and condition builds having a tendency of being binary and boring to play as or against as a result.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

    If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then.

    The major issues of FA ele are and always been : 900 range burst and target requirement making the build an easy pick for stealth specs and 1200 teleport burst , the dmg to survivability is not even close to a core mesmer shatter...at least not more, it was somehow possible before to outskill a core mesmer...before the nerfs that made FA ele even worst than the worst spec status it was before

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

    If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then.

    FA Ele has been good multiple times during GW2s lifespan. But usually it was outshined by Cele Ele, which still had high DPS, but also endless survivability. I guess you forgot about that, huh?

    The major issues of FA ele are and always been : 900 range burst and target requirement making the build an easy pick for stealth specs and 1200 teleport burst , the dmg to survivability is not even close to a core mesmer shatter...at least not more, it was somehow possible before to outskill a core mesmer...before the nerfs that made FA ele even worst than the worst spec status it was before

    Nope. Pretty much all of those are hilariously wrong. The major issue FA Ele had for most of GW2s lifespan is just that it was outclassed by Cele Ele. Why go full glass full damage, if you can go tanky as hell and still have high damage? This only really stopped being true with PoF, where even that form of Ele was outclassed by things like Holo.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

    If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then.

    FA Ele has been good multiple times during GW2s lifespan. But usually it was outshined by Cele Ele, which still had high DPS, but also endless survivability. I guess you forgot about that, huh?

    The major issues of FA ele are and always been : 900 range burst and target requirement making the build an easy pick for stealth specs and 1200 teleport burst , the dmg to survivability is not even close to a core mesmer shatter...at least not more, it was somehow possible before to outskill a core mesmer...before the nerfs that made FA ele even worst than the worst spec status it was before

    Nope. Pretty much all of those are hilariously wrong. The major issue FA Ele had for most of GW2s lifespan is just that it was outclassed by Cele Ele. Why go full glass full damage, if you can go tanky as hell and still have high damage? This only really stopped being true with PoF, where even that form of Ele was outclassed by things like Holo.

    Please stop embarrassing yourself any further......I need to stop before I fell off my chair..laughing

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    Well, at least you learned from last time when people laughed at you when you posted a screenshot of you having other classes as proof that you multiclassed. That being said, how do I know this is you? Besides, argumentum ab auctoritatem. If you have to rely on who you are (assuming that is you) instead of using actual arguments, that points to you not having arguments.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @myboybuzzy.5809 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    But fresh air ele does have defenses... 2 invulns, mad projectile hate, ample amount of cc, and a teleport that is comparable to blink, instacast but not technically a stunbreak. Dont get me wrong you are squishy as kitten, but I'd argue that damage to survivability it is comparable to burst mes. At the end of the day if your smart about positioning and matchups it is very playable.

    If any of that would hold a candle...FA ele would have been listed at least as good on metabattle since launch and the last guy who tried FA ele in GW2 pvp was one NA guy ( forgot his name, was a well known ele ) against Team Paradigm ( where @Phantaram.1265 used to play) during a tournie in 2013....enough to say, he got farmed so hard..nobody ever tried to run a FA ele during a real PvP match since then.

    FA Ele has been good multiple times during GW2s lifespan. But usually it was outshined by Cele Ele, which still had high DPS, but also endless survivability. I guess you forgot about that, huh?

    The major issues of FA ele are and always been : 900 range burst and target requirement making the build an easy pick for stealth specs and 1200 teleport burst , the dmg to survivability is not even close to a core mesmer shatter...at least not more, it was somehow possible before to outskill a core mesmer...before the nerfs that made FA ele even worst than the worst spec status it was before

    Nope. Pretty much all of those are hilariously wrong. The major issue FA Ele had for most of GW2s lifespan is just that it was outclassed by Cele Ele. Why go full glass full damage, if you can go tanky as hell and still have high damage? This only really stopped being true with PoF, where even that form of Ele was outclassed by things like Holo.

    Please stop embarrassing yourself any further......I need to stop before I fell off my chair..laughing

    The only one embarassing themselves is you, after being pointed out to be entirely wrong and attempting to deflect it with someone nonsense. Perhaps it would be better if you stop before you get laughed at like the last time where you posted that screenshot of you having other classes. Besides, people know by now just how extensive your bias is, and how much it influences your every action. Hating a tool thief doesnt even use, not wanting warrior to be buffed when its undeniably severely underperforming. As I said, you got compared with burnfall for a reason.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    Well, at least you learned from last time when people laughed at you when you posted a screenshot of you having other classes as proof that you multiclassed. That being said, how do I know this is you? Besides, argumentum ab auctoritatem. If you have to rely on who you are (assuming that is you) instead of using actual arguments, that points to you not having arguments.

    So in the end...you just talk gibberish, you have been disqualified by me on numerous occasions and now out of respect for myself...I will ask you please to stop picking on my comments....I may as well talk about balance with "Tom" over there farming wood in Queensdale...same level of knowledge...so pls

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    Well, at least you learned from last time when people laughed at you when you posted a screenshot of you having other classes as proof that you multiclassed. That being said, how do I know this is you? Besides, argumentum ab auctoritatem. If you have to rely on who you are (assuming that is you) instead of using actual arguments, that points to you not having arguments.

    So in the end...you just talk gibberish, you have been disqualified by me on numerous occasions and now out of respect for myself...I will ask you please to stop picking on my comments....I may as well talk about balance with "Tom" over there farming wood in Queensdale...same level of knowledge...so pls

    Nah. You just got hit by a rebuttal, and you lacked an answer of your own. You try to just handwave my rebuttal, but sadly that fails. You have never disqualified anyone. Of course not. It was you who got laughed out as a highly biased, unreliable and ultimately clueless guy whose opinions on any class are so drenched in bias they have no merit whatsoever. You are the one lacking in any balance knowledge, as evident by you complaining about in-combat stealth, and thinking that Warrior shouldnt be buffed right now despite severely underperforming. You will keep making the same uninformed incorrect statements that are based entirely on bias. I will keep correcting them. The only way that stops is if you start fixing your own bias.

  • Multicolorhipster.9751Multicolorhipster.9751 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd like something that gives people time to react to incoming damage without nerfing everything in the game, and making it more boring to play.

    Remove or Split DuoQ, revolution of our time! 😷

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want a meta where I do not end-up fighting the same exact builds every game, since there are only handful available. A meta that you spend half of your combat time CCed. And fights do not take minutes to resolve.

  • soul.6527soul.6527 Member ✭✭

    @Broady.2358 I don’t care what meta it is bunker,one shot ,condi one shot,boon spam or burn weaver I just want to be able to play any class I want and not feel chucked by the fact that it’s out played by default by other classes like Mesmer is when it comes to fighting ranger it just shrugs off any burst if the ranger knows how to dodge and hit their heal skill (just another perspective if not listed already)

  • I actually enjoy bunker meta a lot. Burst meta and condi meta (which was really just another flavour of burst meta) feels so uninteractive, it eventually boils down to who has the lowest ping, or who spots the enemy first, and there's so little variety because if your build can't immediately burst the enemy, you get bursted instead.
    From all the complaints I read about the bunker meta, I think the problem is not with bunkers themselves but with the conquest game mode.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    Im not sure we want the Celestial Meta. 4 Cele Eles in both teams was kinda absurd.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    Im not sure we want the Celestial Meta. 4 Cele Eles in both teams was kinda absurd.

    That was not the meta, that was a sub-optimal meme team. That's like saying right now 3 renegade is meta

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    Im not sure we want the Celestial Meta. 4 Cele Eles in both teams was kinda absurd.

    That was not the meta, that was a sub-optimal meme team. That's like saying right now 3 renegade is meta

    Well, I suppose youre right, but the meta was 2-3 cele eles on the same team, with the general trend being 3. Thats not great either.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd take a dps meta any day of the week. It's really the only skilled playstyles there is. Being able to read the situation and execute a good burst while being able to be bursted you're self but avoiding it because of well times dodges really is the only fun way to play for me.

    Having endless stream of sustain and condi spam is no fun and it's certainly not exciting to watch.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    Power with meta condi builds only on Mesmer, Ele, Necro

    Warrior as side node bruiser

    Ele as weaver side node or tempest support

    Necro as core terrormancer or scourge as a team fighter

    Rev as power herald roamer/team fighter

    Ranger as power dps/roamer

    Thief as roamer

    Mirage as roamer/side node condi mirage or GS burst

    Guardian as side noder dragonhunter or teamfighter/support firebrand.

    Engie as rifle holo side noder/team fighter

    Essentially 2019 because things were more balanced then than now.

    Give chrono IP back
    Give scourge personal shade back

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 15, 2020

    Necromancer:
    Scourge. Easily. I preferred when necro had an appropriate level of immense lethality with conditions, could single handledly carry team fights but was just as susceptible to being focused and the mark of a good necro was how they positioned themselves to being less vulnerable to being damaged. Plu setting shades and then pulsing damage out of the shades FEELS like necromancer game play more so than just being a tank. Like as a necromancer I feel thematically you should have minions. Your shades (minions) can do immense damage and corrupt but you youself are weak. I also prefer Necro to primarily deal condition damage gameplay wise. Power Reaper at its peak was also a lot of fun, with nuclear levels of damage but clear counter play and capacity to zone. Core necro is and has always been boring AF

    Elementalist:
    Fresh Air Scepter Weaver. Easily. I've always resented the idea of Elementalists having to play these sloshy minimal damage builds like CeleEle that do unimpactful damage over a long time until they win with largely unimpactfull sustain. If was in charge of balance elementalist would be significantly more akin to Power Mesmer as a build that off point nukes other players but is also extremely squishy itself. I feel like the overall purpose of Elementalists should be from design perspective is that you can build that to be nuclear levels of damage or tidal wave levels of sustain. I hate builds that try to be slushy builds where they do a gradual slush of damage and win with a gradual slush of sustain. Doubly so when its Guild Wars 2's premier "Fireball thrower" class. I prefer Elementalist to do Power damage gameplay wise. If anything in this game should be nuking and globalling players it should be a fully committed Power Burst Ele.

    Mesmer:
    Probably Axe+Torch/Staff Carrion+Ineptitude was my favorite build to fight / fight against. This was a shatter build which meant offensive shatters actually mattered. Which limited the strain and damage against players that clones could deal damage and kill, turret style. Also Portal was unnerfed in this era and Portal is just so fun. It feels great to always be thinking about two locations tactically because you can make an immediate impact on both. I greatly prefer Mesmer doing condition damage, largely confusion. It feels more "Illusory". Also compared to Sword/Staff Mirage it's capacity to abandon a fight and rotate elsewhere was less emphasized. Plus dropping a combat utility in favor of Portal meant a serious loss in survivability and your ability to respond to certain builds.

    Thief:
    I've never liked any thief build as a "fun healthy" thing for the game. Power Sword+Dagger Core was probably the least offensive to my sensibilities as I've aggressively hated every build that had come out since then. I've aggressively hated every version of condi thief I have ever seen.

    Ranger:
    Again, I've never particularly liked any ranger build. Core Era Spirit Ranger, Immortal Sidenode Druid, and Immortal Sidenode BoonBeast are probably my least favorite. I didn't hate Sic Em Sniper Soulbeasts the way others did. It hit very hard but you could focus it just as hard as a team. I'd probably go with that. Especially because on a thematic level rangers should be either sniping players. And if they're druids they should be keeping their teammates, not themselves, alive.

    Engineer:
    Honestly probably Rifle Holo. ProtHolo and scrapper have always had stupid levels of sustain to the point of being unfun. Post Rework Scrapper is quite frankly the most I've ever hated any build ever. Prot Holo only a bit behind. There's having advantages against certain builds the way POF Core Guard could shrug off condition damage, and then there is being stupid levels of immune like Rework Scrapper and ProtHolo are. Rifle holo had a mix of lethality and survivability and clear tells to make them fun to fight against. If there was any problem with them it was the absurd levels of sustain provided by Healing Turret and the 6 second stealth on Toss Elixir S. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Prime Light Beam felt AMAZING. FUN even. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Holographic Shockwave felt AMAZING.

    Guardian:
    Greatsword/Sword+Focus burst guardian. Easily. This was just a great build to play against and a great build to play in terms of feel. Just a great wide mix of skills, landing a Ray of Judgement felt amazing as did landing one. The ultimate beginner build that you can take to master levels. It had a high amount amount of sustain for the level of damage it could do. It could snap in and just obliterate you but it felt good when you avoided that. Also a fun build to 1v1 as it spent most of the 1v1 immensely lethal and the fight was mostly about avoiding lethal damage until they ran out of cooldowns, which wasn't excessively long and felt like a real chess match trade of blows.

    I also especially loved the era when in Ranked guardians could go full support Firebrand or DPS Core core guardian and both were viably choices. Firebrand was probably the only "Support build" to actually play support and not just be unkillable on the side nodes like Scrapper and Druid became so it never offended me to the degree those builds did.

    Warrior:
    Greatsword/Dagger+Shield Spellbreaker. I loved fighting these things. It was a mix of positioning vs immense lethality I really enjoyed. Overall it felt like what Core Warrior was meant to be. Just a straight up no frills fight. I do think Spellbreaker as a whole didn't live up to my Anti-Boon and Anti-Condi hopes but it was even in it's most potent stages one of the things I most enjoyed fighting. I genuinely miss them a lot.

    I also loved and played a lot of Greatsword/Hammer back in Core. Hell of a lot of fun to bait cooldowns then Hammer Burst into 100 Blades and obliterate someone.

    Rev:
    Both Condition and Power are okay with me tbh as long as it isn't Ventari bunk. Condi could probably get a trim interms of sustain and power could always have used some elimination of its ability to chain evades+Blocks+damage nullification. But I never particularly hated either play style. Both should be valid.

    Everyone talks about power creep, despite us currently playing in an era where damage and burst is lower than it as EVER, EVER been. I remember the days of slushy unkillable Core+CeleEle. Of Zoo Necros and Rangers. Of literally Unkillable Chronos and Scrappers and Druids. It Sucked. Hard. PoF was probably the best this game has ever been Meta Wise as Firebrand as Support could make a real difference while everything else felt Threatening and Lethal damage wise. Nothing is worse for conquest than when something is super overpowered defensively.

    If I was in charge of Balance those are the builds I'd shoot for towards being primarily meta and work on build variety afterwords.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    Im not sure we want the Celestial Meta. 4 Cele Eles in both teams was kinda absurd.

    That was not the meta, that was a sub-optimal meme team. That's like saying right now 3 renegade is meta

    "Sub optimal" basically meaning "Wins everything except that one fight once a month against the meta team, of which literally one team is capable of running at an optimal level".

    Core was a slushy, hideous mess where literally no one died unless they got focused 2v1 away from the Ele. It's hilarious now going back and seeing literally 15-30! minute long "OMG I'm So HYPE GOD OF PVP" duel videos and seeing the same people who posted those videos stick around to cry on the forums and say how great PvP was back in Yee Olden Day when even in their "Top Tier Highlights!" 1v1s straight up would not and could not end.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Damage meta sounds fun and have options for countering but it only happens in 1v1 fights, currently good example is thief vs thief.
    Problem is if you had damage meta in 5v5 then 1 dude get focused and bursted, so there is no counterplay but CC- locking someone and bursting it to death. That is why bunker meta exists and should exist to counter multiple players who focus fire one player. So if 5 noobs focus fire tank then they should be punished for wasting their cooldowns on target that can absorb all their spells. In every game, there are always some damage players around so it is not really full tank meta. Every tank has its own weaknesses, and is very vulnerable to +1 classes(fighting 2 enemies on node, alone).

    Also for example, i am playing bunker renegade, and believe or not my class is very counterable, interupting summons, stripping my boons, applying poison, using retaliation boon against myself, slow/chill control condis to reduce my sustain over time overall, confusion to kill myself and so on. I am playing it for very long, maybe 1 year in pvp when nobody ever tried. I died so many times, but when mastered you almost never die again.

    If we pick up a necro as bunker, you can freely burst it while it is out of shroud and while in shroud, bait it or CC.

    About elementalist as bunker, applying chill condition to it makes it useless and worst class but also poison, confusion.

    Ranger is a little bit problematic currently, since its greatsword 4 blocks for like 5 seconds and has still short cooldown(better spell than thieves dagger storm). So many passive healings. So many escapes, burst damage. Tanky classes shouldn't have mobility nor bursting dmg in their kit.

    So instead of removing knight amulet, and any toughness amulets, arenanet could add negative stats for damage on those tanky stats or at least reducing offensive stats, so classes that go for damage but low defenses could compete with classes with tankiness but low damage.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    :(

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet,

    I don't remember this part in that meta.

    They only ended when the enemy Thief + Mediguard rotated into the fight as far as I can recall.

    Whenever it was a fight with Cele D/D Ele(Cele Staff as well to some extent), Cele Rifle Engi and Cele/Soldier Shoutbow Warr they never really ended. Especially not sidenode duels between any of these. They just kept on in perpetuity .

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aktium.9506 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet,

    I don't remember this part in that meta.

    They only ended when the enemy Thief + Mediguard rotated into the fight as far as I can recall.

    Whenever it was a fight with Cele D/D Ele(Cele Staff as well to some extent), Cele Rifle Engi and Cele/Soldier Shoutbow Warr they never really ended. Especially not sidenode duels between any of these. They just kept on in perpetuity .

    If a cele engi was in the equation, the battle would end. (That was my PoV). I think it was a high end skill to get a fight to conclude as an Ele vs. Ele, but Phantaram was doing it.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭

    decap engineer

    [EVIL LAUGHTER]

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Necromancer:
    Scourge. Easily. I preferred when necro had an appropriate level of immense lethality with conditions, could single handledly carry team fights but was just as susceptible to being focused and the mark of a good necro was how they positioned themselves to being less vulnerable to being damaged. Plu setting shades and then pulsing damage out of the shades FEELS like necromancer game play more so than just being a tank. Like as a necromancer I feel thematically you should have minions. Your shades (minions) can do immense damage and corrupt but you youself are weak. I also prefer Necro to primarily deal condition damage gameplay wise. Power Reaper at its peak was also a lot of fun, with nuclear levels of damage but clear counter play and capacity to zone. Core necro is and has always been boring AF

    Elementalist:
    Fresh Air Scepter Weaver. Easily. I've always resented the idea of Elementalists having to play these sloshy minimal damage builds like CeleEle that do unimpactful damage over a long time until they win with largely unimpactfull sustain. If was in charge of balance elementalist would be significantly more akin to Power Mesmer as a build that off point nukes other players but is also extremely squishy itself. I feel like the overall purpose of Elementalists should be from design perspective is that you can build that to be nuclear levels of damage or tidal wave levels of sustain. I hate builds that try to be slushy builds where they do a gradual slush of damage and win with a gradual slush of sustain. Doubly so when its Guild Wars 2's premier "Fireball thrower" class. I prefer Elementalist to do Power damage gameplay wise. If anything in this game should be nuking and globalling players it should be a fully committed Power Burst Ele.

    Mesmer:
    Probably Axe+Torch/Staff Carrion+Ineptitude was my favorite build to fight / fight against. This was a shatter build which meant offensive shatters actually mattered. Which limited the strain and damage against players that clones could deal damage and kill, turret style. Also Portal was unnerfed in this era and Portal is just so fun. It feels great to always be thinking about two locations tactically because you can make an immediate impact on both. I greatly prefer Mesmer doing condition damage, largely confusion. It feels more "Illusory". Also compared to Sword/Staff Mirage it's capacity to abandon a fight and rotate elsewhere was less emphasized. Plus dropping a combat utility in favor of Portal meant a serious loss in survivability and your ability to respond to certain builds.

    Thief:
    I've never liked any thief build as a "fun healthy" thing for the game. Power Sword+Dagger Core was probably the least offensive to my sensibilities as I've aggressively hated every build that had come out since then. I've aggressively hated every version of condi thief I have ever seen.

    Ranger:
    Again, I've never particularly liked any ranger build. Core Era Spirit Ranger, Immortal Sidenode Druid, and Immortal Sidenode BoonBeast are probably my least favorite. I didn't hate Sic Em Sniper Soulbeasts the way others did. It hit very hard but you could focus it just as hard as a team. I'd probably go with that. Especially because on a thematic level rangers should be either sniping players. And if they're druids they should be keeping their teammates, not themselves, alive.

    Engineer:
    Honestly probably Rifle Holo. ProtHolo and scrapper have always had stupid levels of sustain to the point of being unfun. Post Rework Scrapper is quite frankly the most I've ever hated any build ever. Prot Holo only a bit behind. There's having advantages against certain builds the way POF Core Guard could shrug off condition damage, and then there is being stupid levels of immune like Rework Scrapper and ProtHolo are. Rifle holo had a mix of lethality and survivability and clear tells to make them fun to fight against. If there was any problem with them it was the absurd levels of sustain provided by Healing Turret and the 6 second stealth on Toss Elixir S. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Prime Light Beam felt AMAZING. FUN even. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Holographic Shockwave felt AMAZING.

    Guardian:
    Greatsword/Sword+Focus burst guardian. Easily. This was just a great build to play against and a great build to play in terms of feel. Just a great wide mix of skills, landing a Ray of Judgement felt amazing as did landing one. The ultimate beginner build that you can take to master levels. It had a high amount amount of sustain for the level of damage it could do. It could snap in and just obliterate you but it felt good when you avoided that. Also a fun build to 1v1 as it spent most of the 1v1 immensely lethal and the fight was mostly about avoiding lethal damage until they ran out of cooldowns, which wasn't excessively long and felt like a real chess match trade of blows.

    I also especially loved the era when in Ranked guardians could go full support Firebrand or DPS Core core guardian and both were viably choices. Firebrand was probably the only "Support build" to actually play support and not just be unkillable on the side nodes like Scrapper and Druid became so it never offended me to the degree those builds did.

    Warrior:
    Greatsword/Dagger+Shield Spellbreaker. I loved fighting these things. It was a mix of positioning vs immense lethality I really enjoyed. Overall it felt like what Core Warrior was meant to be. Just a straight up no frills fight. I do think Spellbreaker as a whole didn't live up to my Anti-Boon and Anti-Condi hopes but it was even in it's most potent stages one of the things I most enjoyed fighting. I genuinely miss them a lot.

    I also loved and played a lot of Greatsword/Hammer back in Core. Hell of a lot of fun to bait cooldowns then Hammer Burst into 100 Blades and obliterate someone.

    Rev:
    Both Condition and Power are okay with me tbh as long as it isn't Ventari bunk. Condi could probably get a trim interms of sustain and power could always have used some elimination of its ability to chain evades+Blocks+damage nullification. But I never particularly hated either play style. Both should be valid.

    Everyone talks about power creep, despite us currently playing in an era where damage and burst is lower than it as EVER, EVER been. I remember the days of slushy unkillable Core+CeleEle. Of Zoo Necros and Rangers. Of literally Unkillable Chronos and Scrappers and Druids. It Sucked. Hard. PoF was probably the best this game has ever been Meta Wise as Firebrand as Support could make a real difference while everything else felt Threatening and Lethal damage wise. Nothing is worse for conquest than when something is super overpowered defensively.

    If I was in charge of Balance those are the builds I'd shoot for towards being primarily meta and work on build variety afterwords.

    Yeah....luckily you are not in charge, ideally a game designer should not show such strong bias..as you do, basically hating anything that can challenge your mesmer .and "loving" everything you can kill easily with a busted spec like the one you've described as being "fun" to fight against...accordingly to you.

    So mesmer should be this broken AI condi spamming "invincible" spec....while eles for example get constricted to FA ele...yeah, so for 90% of the fight an ele would have zero targets due to stealth uptime and the rest of the time distortion would be up..while the FA ele die fast to condi spam....

    Ofc you love FA ele and hate d/d ele...the first is close to being a free kill requiring 5x more effort and skill than any mesmer build since launch...the other may actual pose a real threat due to its sustain

    -You love spellbreakers because again..easy to kite with that 8s CD away teleport, stealth etc etc
    -You love sniper rangers because....evasive reflection...ez
    -You love burst guardians because....read warrior

    Basically you love everything you can kill easy on your mesmer.......this is why I continue to say that player forums should not exist in any official manner or at the very least should never be taken seriously

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:
    Necromancer:
    Scourge. Easily. I preferred when necro had an appropriate level of immense lethality with conditions, could single handledly carry team fights but was just as susceptible to being focused and the mark of a good necro was how they positioned themselves to being less vulnerable to being damaged. Plu setting shades and then pulsing damage out of the shades FEELS like necromancer game play more so than just being a tank. Like as a necromancer I feel thematically you should have minions. Your shades (minions) can do immense damage and corrupt but you youself are weak. I also prefer Necro to primarily deal condition damage gameplay wise. Power Reaper at its peak was also a lot of fun, with nuclear levels of damage but clear counter play and capacity to zone. Core necro is and has always been boring AF

    Elementalist:
    Fresh Air Scepter Weaver. Easily. I've always resented the idea of Elementalists having to play these sloshy minimal damage builds like CeleEle that do unimpactful damage over a long time until they win with largely unimpactfull sustain. If was in charge of balance elementalist would be significantly more akin to Power Mesmer as a build that off point nukes other players but is also extremely squishy itself. I feel like the overall purpose of Elementalists should be from design perspective is that you can build that to be nuclear levels of damage or tidal wave levels of sustain. I hate builds that try to be slushy builds where they do a gradual slush of damage and win with a gradual slush of sustain. Doubly so when its Guild Wars 2's premier "Fireball thrower" class. I prefer Elementalist to do Power damage gameplay wise. If anything in this game should be nuking and globalling players it should be a fully committed Power Burst Ele.

    Mesmer:
    Probably Axe+Torch/Staff Carrion+Ineptitude was my favorite build to fight / fight against. This was a shatter build which meant offensive shatters actually mattered. Which limited the strain and damage against players that clones could deal damage and kill, turret style. Also Portal was unnerfed in this era and Portal is just so fun. It feels great to always be thinking about two locations tactically because you can make an immediate impact on both. I greatly prefer Mesmer doing condition damage, largely confusion. It feels more "Illusory". Also compared to Sword/Staff Mirage it's capacity to abandon a fight and rotate elsewhere was less emphasized. Plus dropping a combat utility in favor of Portal meant a serious loss in survivability and your ability to respond to certain builds.

    Thief:
    I've never liked any thief build as a "fun healthy" thing for the game. Power Sword+Dagger Core was probably the least offensive to my sensibilities as I've aggressively hated every build that had come out since then. I've aggressively hated every version of condi thief I have ever seen.

    Ranger:
    Again, I've never particularly liked any ranger build. Core Era Spirit Ranger, Immortal Sidenode Druid, and Immortal Sidenode BoonBeast are probably my least favorite. I didn't hate Sic Em Sniper Soulbeasts the way others did. It hit very hard but you could focus it just as hard as a team. I'd probably go with that. Especially because on a thematic level rangers should be either sniping players. And if they're druids they should be keeping their teammates, not themselves, alive.

    Engineer:
    Honestly probably Rifle Holo. ProtHolo and scrapper have always had stupid levels of sustain to the point of being unfun. Post Rework Scrapper is quite frankly the most I've ever hated any build ever. Prot Holo only a bit behind. There's having advantages against certain builds the way POF Core Guard could shrug off condition damage, and then there is being stupid levels of immune like Rework Scrapper and ProtHolo are. Rifle holo had a mix of lethality and survivability and clear tells to make them fun to fight against. If there was any problem with them it was the absurd levels of sustain provided by Healing Turret and the 6 second stealth on Toss Elixir S. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Prime Light Beam felt AMAZING. FUN even. As long as they aren't stealthed dodging Holographic Shockwave felt AMAZING.

    Guardian:
    Greatsword/Sword+Focus burst guardian. Easily. This was just a great build to play against and a great build to play in terms of feel. Just a great wide mix of skills, landing a Ray of Judgement felt amazing as did landing one. The ultimate beginner build that you can take to master levels. It had a high amount amount of sustain for the level of damage it could do. It could snap in and just obliterate you but it felt good when you avoided that. Also a fun build to 1v1 as it spent most of the 1v1 immensely lethal and the fight was mostly about avoiding lethal damage until they ran out of cooldowns, which wasn't excessively long and felt like a real chess match trade of blows.

    I also especially loved the era when in Ranked guardians could go full support Firebrand or DPS Core core guardian and both were viably choices. Firebrand was probably the only "Support build" to actually play support and not just be unkillable on the side nodes like Scrapper and Druid became so it never offended me to the degree those builds did.

    Warrior:
    Greatsword/Dagger+Shield Spellbreaker. I loved fighting these things. It was a mix of positioning vs immense lethality I really enjoyed. Overall it felt like what Core Warrior was meant to be. Just a straight up no frills fight. I do think Spellbreaker as a whole didn't live up to my Anti-Boon and Anti-Condi hopes but it was even in it's most potent stages one of the things I most enjoyed fighting. I genuinely miss them a lot.

    I also loved and played a lot of Greatsword/Hammer back in Core. Hell of a lot of fun to bait cooldowns then Hammer Burst into 100 Blades and obliterate someone.

    Rev:
    Both Condition and Power are okay with me tbh as long as it isn't Ventari bunk. Condi could probably get a trim interms of sustain and power could always have used some elimination of its ability to chain evades+Blocks+damage nullification. But I never particularly hated either play style. Both should be valid.

    Everyone talks about power creep, despite us currently playing in an era where damage and burst is lower than it as EVER, EVER been. I remember the days of slushy unkillable Core+CeleEle. Of Zoo Necros and Rangers. Of literally Unkillable Chronos and Scrappers and Druids. It Sucked. Hard. PoF was probably the best this game has ever been Meta Wise as Firebrand as Support could make a real difference while everything else felt Threatening and Lethal damage wise. Nothing is worse for conquest than when something is super overpowered defensively.

    If I was in charge of Balance those are the builds I'd shoot for towards being primarily meta and work on build variety afterwords.

    Yeah....luckily you are not in charge, ideally a game designer should not show such strong bias..as you do, basically hating anything that can challenge your mesmer .and "loving" everything you can kill easily with a busted spec like the one you've described as being "fun" to fight against...accordingly to you.

    PvP is at it's lowest it's been since I've started paying attention to population and all that while I've not been in charge. Perhaps that indicates a trend? The longer I'm not in charge of balance the lower PvP's population gets. Very clear correlation here. Explain that.

    So mesmer should be this broken AI condi spamming "invincible" spec....while eles for example get constricted to FA ele...yeah, so for 90% of the fight an ele would have zero targets due to stealth uptime and the rest of the time distortion would be up..while the FA ele die fast to condi spam....

    I'm pretty sure I mentioned Ineptitude Shatter as my favorite mesmer spec, explicitly because while it was powerful in it's day, and it was built around Confusion Damage, and WASN'T build around using clones like Turrets to grind down enemies with AI

    Ofc you love FA ele and hate d/d ele...the first is close to being a free kill requiring 5x more effort and skill than any mesmer build since launch...the other may actual pose a real threat due to its sustain

    No I like FA Ele because I think Ele should be orientated towards immensely powerful damage specs and immensely powerful support specs but slushy hybrids should be discouraged.

    I liked playing against FA Weavers during the start of PoF because I felt as that that is what Ele should be; an extremely lethal off point nuker even more so than Power GS Mesmer is. To me, thematically that's one of the primary roles Elementalist should be performing. Simple as that.

    -You love spellbreakers because again..easy to kite with that 8s CD away teleport, stealth etc etc

    Spellbreaker is easy to kite despite Rush and Bull's Charge I suppose but it could also just slap you for 10k damage arcing slices if you aren't careful. The joy was in the push and pull. plenty of builds can blink away and run. But there was an art towards keeping a Spellbreaker on one side of a node you were contesting while maintaining yourself on the other side and still contesting.

    -You love sniper rangers because....evasive reflection...ez

    Throughout a majority of time Sic Em Sniper was a thing they had effectively 50% uptime on unblockable that punched right through Evasive Reflection.

    Frankly I preferred Sniper rangers because thematically that's what they should be doing. And also because against them it was very immediate "Kill or Be Killed." And a fair amount of times it did end up just being "killed". There's an answer to the fight. Unlike peak Side Node Druids which could just sustain and survive against anything that wasn't a 3v1. Overall I come from a radical gaming philosophy that suggests that most of the time fights should have winners and losers and ties should be pretty rare. So while I don't mind the idea of a build that is noticably more tanky than other builds, and that tankiness should be a strength in their favor. Builds regardless of tankiness shouldn't be able to completely resustain over and over to full health without outright abandoning combat

    -You love burst guardians because....read warrior

    Core GS/Hammer guardian felt almost opposite in terms of vs Spellbreaker in a way. The general game plan against a Core Guardian is to avoid him and outlast his cooldowns that are keeping him both alive and immensely lethal. With spellbreaker you wanted to sabotage them before they can ramp up and start spamming their bursts and full counters back to back. From a mesmer's perspective it was almost the opposite style match up. Against a Spellbreaker you were rushing them down. Against a Coreguard you were trying to prevent being rushed downed.

    Guardians, between Judge's Intervention and Symbol of Blades were also significantly harder to kite in combat without the use of No Port than Spellbreaker. And Spellbreaker could still just slap you for 10k damage if you screwed up your positioning as I mentioned before.

    Basically you love everything you can kill easy on your mesmer.......this is why I continue to say that player forums should not exist in any official manner or at the very least should never be taken seriously

    Yeah. Okay. Good.

    I generally dislike things that violate the idea that between two combatants there should usually be a clear victor, yes. Look at Pre-HoT PvP videos and watch people who I can name who STILL post on this forum RIGHT NOW TO DAY who posted literally 10-30 minute long 1v1 duels on YouTube like they thought it made them look cool. Do you want me to link you some? I'll PM you. Frankly that was GW2 PvP's Original Sin. And it's been a constant problem ever since. A good PvP fight should be between 10-30 seconds. The game is never worse than when something is so defensively power crept it can survive against anything that isn't a 2v1 or 3v1 like Chronobunk, Pre-Nerf Druid, or Rework Scrapper.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ideally a meta leave room for any kind of build. One of the issue of gw2 is that the combination of traits, skills and gear tend to allow high survivability alongside high damage. And this in return leave the more "specialized" builds either less optimal or seen as OP. The meta needed is a meta where true rock, paper, scizor builds exist for all professions, not the current situation where every meta build is somewhere in the middle point of those 3 extrem.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    Whatever meta this has evolved into, I like it.

    There is a good balance between power and condi builds. The meta builds are not annoying to fight, as in you have a couple of options. Well, Malyx/Herald will be shaved, it's unavoidable. But still, I'm in Plat 2 with a relatively off-meta build and I do ok in this bracket. I remember the days of there being just cele eles and glass thieves in a match, it was truly cancer. When PoF launched, it was a different kind of hell due to unchecked power creep.

    Best balance we ever had was late vanilla, right after burns were nerfed a bit and just before HoT launched. From HoT's launch until Feb this year, the game was unplayable to me and I played other, better pvp games (Dota 2, Battlerite). But I like it now as it reminds me of that brief vanilla period.

    I just hate the game mode, I'm tired of it. 8 years of this kitten. I'm pleasantly surprised GW2 still has a PvP scene given how stale things have been. The solution to population probs simply lies in supporting different and better game modes.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    We want the last year of vanilla, from Celestial meta to Core Specs patch.

    • Where duels end no matter the amulet, and half the core specs had a competitive duelist build.
    • Duelist/2v2 focused comps, 5v5 teamfight comps, and +1 rotation mobility based portal comps can all take games off of each other when played at a high level.

    Not much else you could've asked for, except for Ranger being useful.

    YES. My sentiments exactly, as per my post. Clear and varied roles, decent options except ranger as you say. As a ranger main, I still liked that time though.

    At that time, I ran a Valkyrie ranger with Beastly Warden spam, at a relatively high level in soloq. It was meme, but still better than the glassbow build in every way at the time as a +1'er. It was short lived due to BW nerfs and HoT's power creep. Then druid had its place on the throne for a long time, but because I hated this cancerous playstyle, I skipped most of HoT. also I couldn't play my valk ranger because Reapers were absolutely shredding everything within 600 range for a long while (6-8 months?). I quietly left the game for a couple of years.

    I guess my point is: I like it when I can play an off-meta build and stand a chance against meta ones if I play really well. Also, hard counters need to exist (for example the old necro for boon ripping bunkers), but there shouldn't be too many of these types of matchups.

    For example, I like how they recently dealt with prot holo and core ranger. They implemented milder, strategic nerfs, which made room for my off-meta Soulbeast build on side nodes. We need this kind of approach for addressing other overturned meta specs, like symbolbrand and Malyx/Glint, which should hopefully slightly open up some space for other bunker-lite specs.

    So yeah, now is good, but also that summer during vanilla before HoT launch.

    Ultimately, I just want a different game mode. After 2 months, I'm already considering moving onto WvW for some roaming.

  • wevh.2903wevh.2903 Member ✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    Well, at least you learned from last time when people laughed at you when you posted a screenshot of you having other classes as proof that you multiclassed. That being said, how do I know this is you? Besides, argumentum ab auctoritatem. If you have to rely on who you are (assuming that is you) instead of using actual arguments, that points to you not having arguments.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. That's not what makes meta. What makes meta is simply the classes/builds that currently perform the 4 job roles the best: "team fighter" "support" "+1 Decap Roamer" "Side Node Duelist"
    2. I want a DPS meta to return. People asked for "DPS to be lowered", they do not ask for "DPS to be halved intra-class wide". The truth is that DPS metas are just more enjoyable than sustainy metas. There is so much more room for high skill ceiling and counter-play during DPS meta.

    I want a DPS meta where everybody plays a zerker core ele...no stealth...no 1500 pewpew.....no pet....no clones....no teleports.....no chain blocks etc etc....let's see how many would love "DPS meta" in that case.

    I know that anything that isnt ranger is a big mystery to you, but you do know Elementalist has teleports, blocks and channeled invulns, right?

    I call it BS when people say to love DPS meta when playing a class with several in built defense mechanisms, I'd take all these people ..put them into an arena and force them to play core zerk FA ele.

    Every class has several built in defense mechanisms. Ele does too, as seen above.

    -A mesmer-thief-ranger main : " I love DPS meta"....yeah great kitten effort in saying that

    I get why thief, youre obsessed with that class, and Mesmer is close enough to thief, but why would a ranger lover mention ranger here?

    You can keep repeating this ranger mantra for as long as you wish...it won't make it that much more truthful and neither I do care about it, you just ridicule yourself every time you repeat it and now you trying to lecture me on ele....truly puts the cherry on the cake...as others pointed out already.....you are really clueless

    I mean it cant be any more truthful than the absolute truth, so yes, it wont become more truthful by default. And given that you just made a grave error about Ele, yeah of course Im lecturing you about it. I know Ele well enough at least to not say something as wrong as "Ele has no defense mechanisms". You are the one who is clueless. There is a reason you got compared with Burnfall.

    ...I am laughing so hard now...you really have no idea.....

    Got extended screenshots but again...I keep putting myself on display for everybody ...I'd like to see you, other than a forum warrior ...there is nothing to prove you know what you are on about

    How can u be rank 500 but be a plat2 player

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    portal comps

    bruh that skill was garbage why would you want it back?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm happy with a meta that mitigates one class domination.

    People love complaining about X class being broken whilst Y class is under powered and needs buffing (Y class being the one they play and X being its counter) and after reading through this thread its plain to see by some posters that that rhetoric is alive and well.

    But at the end of the day a bad meta is when certain classes are favored too much across the board. So If X build has a far higher pick rate in comparison to other builds, then its a good bet that X build needs adjusting in a game where there is no holy trinity and all classes should be able to accomplish similar roles with no one class excelling too much in too many areas at once, coughprepatchholosmithcough.

    So people can scream from the heavens about X build being toxic/broken/unfun/overpowered etc But the real defining factor that Anet should look at when it comes to balance is pickrate. If nobody is playing X build that everybody is on the forums crying about, then its a good bet those people don't really know what they're talking about and are probably just pushing their own personal agenda on whats "fun". Or they're just a bunch of rocks screaming that paper is overpowered. Likewise when it comes to Y build. If nobody is playing Y build then perhaps that spec could do with some adjustments too. coughpowerchronocough

    So as long as there is good variation between builds and classes and we don't start seeing constant repeats of the same specs over and over again I'm quite content.

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd be happy with the end of HOT meta. Glassy builds with limited support. Twitch gameplay and intense moments that got my heart pumping. Very skill base metal, but without the terrible PvP design that came with pof. (I mean did we really need stealth snipers, aoe spam necros, and even more of a support juggernaut guardian?...)

    Pof ruined pvp, but in my opinion, they haven't recovered from it like they did when hot sort of ruined pvp. (Initial mes bunker meta)

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    I'd be happy with the end of HOT meta. Glassy builds with limited support. Twitch gameplay and intense moments that got my heart pumping. Very skill base metal, but without the terrible PvP design that came with pof. (I mean did we really need stealth snipers, aoe spam necros, and even more of a support juggernaut guardian?...)

    Pof ruined pvp, but in my opinion, they haven't recovered from it like they did when hot sort of ruined pvp. (Initial mes bunker meta)

    +1.

    I played PoF for a total of two weeks before quitting the game for 2 years. I was convinced they had no clue about design. It was redundant and pointlessly power-creeped. I remember being really upset with the expansion. PvP was entirely unplayable.