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Thank you Anet! I love it!

anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

The balance is a total failure. 3 months still the game in a worst state than before. 3 months no balance to fix the problem they created when they didn't nerf the conditions but nerf all the healing in the game. I don't even comprehend how can you mess up so badly and don't give a kitten about it.

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

Thank you

Comments

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage. It completely contradicts the whole reason behind power damage and condition damage. All skills with conditions need a complete rework - reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start. Get the ticks down to 2-3K max and the logic behind condition damage is maintained.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage.

    I think confusion and burning together ("burst conditions") might reach 5kish damage on skill use, in extreme cases.

    reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start.

    This might be something to consider with the next expansion, but not right now.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage. It completely contradicts the whole reason behind power damage and condition damage. All skills with conditions need a complete rework - reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start. Get the ticks down to 2-3K max and the logic behind condition damage is maintained.

    Maybe if it hits 7-8k you deserve it

    You need to avoid condi dmg in the same way that you have to do with power.

    If you have 14 stacks torment or 10 stacks burn, maybe because you do not move your kitten

    Yeah sure makes sense telling that a Firebrand, who has 4 condition removals, resistance, blocks and heals. Fact is there are more skills that apply conditions with low cooldown than condition removals which have typically high cooldowns, that is a simple fact, meaning no matter how you avoid, you have faster conditions on you than you can remove, so your standard broken mechanic defender argument of „tRy tO aVoId“ makes no sense logically seen. Or even in a teamfight - condition removals are even more worthless in those scenarios. Not seeing that condition damage is a broken atm is a sign that you absolutely don‘t understand what is going on when you play. Run from reality as much as you want, but conditions will be nerfed when you install the next balance patch and it will be deserved

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Yeah sure makes sense telling that a Firebrand, who has 4 condition removals, resistance, blocks and heals. Fact is there are more skills that apply conditions with low cooldown than condition removals which have typically high cooldowns, that is a simple fact, meaning no matter how you avoid, you have faster conditions on you than you can remove, so your standard broken mechanic defender argument of „tRy tO aVoId“ makes no sense logically seen.

    You don't need to cleanse conditions if you just prevent the application. Dodge, block, evade, kite away etc.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Yeah sure makes sense telling that a Firebrand, who has 4 condition removals, resistance, blocks and heals. Fact is there are more skills that apply conditions with low cooldown than condition removals which have typically high cooldowns, that is a simple fact, meaning no matter how you avoid, you have faster conditions on you than you can remove, so your standard broken mechanic defender argument of „tRy tO aVoId“ makes no sense logically seen.

    You don't need to cleanse conditions if you just prevent the application. Dodge, block, evade, kite away etc.

    Yeah, again I think I have more potential to evade condition damage than most other classes, so that is not the problem. Next patch will have conditions hopefully nerfed into oblivion, because „try to dodge“ is the typical first argument of people who abuse an unfair mechanic ever since this game was released

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    snip

    I don't know, 1 stack of burning with 1000 condition damage hits for 286. If you somehow get hit by 20 burning only then you will be hit by 5.7k ticks.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    snip

    I don't know, 1 stack of burning with 1000 condition damage hits for 286. If you somehow get hit by 20 burning only then you will be hit by 5.7k ticks.

    So you are trying to tell me you have ONLY burn on you in a teamfight? Add 2 stacks of burn to 3 stacks of torment, 1 stack of poison, 4 stacks of confusion and we get into typical teamfight territory. I can only repeat myself, it is a fact that there are more ways to recreive condition damage than to avoid, which puts conditions at a huge advantage. That will hopefully change and conditions return to their true purpose - steady damage over time

  • youle.5824youle.5824 Member ✭✭

    Condis on death breakdown dont mean anything and only beginner will rage over it. Reason : since condi build main dmg come condi itself ofc you wont see stuff like scepter 2 crit for 300 dmg or the like in it. As opposed to power build where lets Gs f1 as first dmg. Condition dmg is calculated over entirety of fight under 1 name. For death break down its like vs a power build using only 1 skill. Good exemple is fighting a power core guard, if duel last long enough you ll see top dm burning but dont kid yourself its not condi that killed you. Just like when people fought old harrier fb and noobs cried burning op to it. Basically..

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @snoow.1694 said:
    So you are trying to tell me you have ONLY burn on you in a teamfight? Add 2 stacks of burn to 3 stacks of torment, 1 stack of poison, 4 stacks of confusion and we get into typical teamfight territory.

    That's like... no damage at all.
    572 burn ticks, 366 moving torment ticks, 94 poison ticks, 1025 skill use confusion ticks.
    In total, 2k condi ticks considering you are using skills without any cast time and moving nonstop.

    I'll make you a favor and make it 10 poison. That's.. get ready... 3k condi ticks. Congratulations.

    10 poison does 1k ticks lol.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Conditions themselves are fine; It's certain skills or combinations of skills which stack them too quickly.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    The balance is a total failure. 3 months still the game in a worst state than before. 3 months no balance to fix the problem they created when they didn't nerf the conditions but nerf all the healing in the game. I don't even comprehend how can you mess up so badly and don't give a kitten about it.

    Thank you

    Thank you

    Thank you

    Thank you

    +1

    this is such a Disgrace.

    This game should've been in a much healthier state by now. Not pedaling back and forth with the same nerf Power-Creep, buff Power-Creep Balance theatrics.

    WHY THE KITTEN ARE PROFESSIONS ARE PLAYING EACH OTHER ROLES TO BEGIN WITH AND EXCELLING THEM!!??

    WHY ARE PROFESSION ARE GAINING ACCESS TO OTHER PROFESSION SKILLS AND THEIR MECHANIC??!!

    WHY NOT REMOVE WHAT IS TOXIC AND BROKEN FOR ONCE!!

    STOP NERFING, START REMOVING!!

    WHY NOT??!!

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed group condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    This^ but its gw2 and the usual not just bad balance but lazyness from its devs. Seriously how is this game still holding on?

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    I'm always interested in this point. In most power builds you would tend to see smaller numbers because skills are split by name. For conditions top aggregates conditions onto one group. You know you died to a condition but you have no idea what really applied it. Also because of the aggregation I could have easily be sustaining a Condi match up and the get plussed by a power build and die and the log would show the top skills as condition damage still even though it's not the reason you died at all.

    Conditions are also harder to read becsuse in the log because you get one hit per stack of a condition on your per second.

    There are a few more points I could make about the log but all in all it's not intuitive and a lot of the screenshots people post are interpreted incorrectly

    Hate to quote myself but bold sums up the OP pretty well. The first two screenshots especially. Top skills is very misleading when it comes to conditions.

    @youle.5824 this person gets it.

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    snip

    I don't know, 1 stack of burning with 1000 condition damage hits for 286. If you somehow get hit by 20 burning only then you will be hit by 5.7k ticks.

    So you are trying to tell me you have ONLY burn on you in a teamfight? Add 2 stacks of burn to 3 stacks of torment, 1 stack of poison, 4 stacks of confusion and we get into typical teamfight territory.

    And packets of power damage are also everywhere in team fights. Don't see the point.

    I can only repeat myself, it is a fact that there are more ways to recreive condition damage than to avoid, which puts conditions at a huge advantage.

    This isn't really true.

    That will hopefully change and conditions return to their true purpose - steady damage over time

    The only notion they should be steady over time is some preconceptions people have since it's a DoT. If you don't avoid repeated skills or strong skills you will die quickly, regardless of damage type.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage.

    I think confusion and burning together ("burst conditions") might reach 5kish damage on skill use, in extreme cases.

    reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start.

    This might be something to consider with the next expansion, but not right now.

    Ironically its easier to take 5k/tick from burning then 5k/proc from confusion.
    Quick calculation, Mesmer needs to use carrion amulet ( 1200 condi ) and fully proc clone summon dmg bufff to 10%, to deal 4,9k dmg/proc at 25!!!! stacks of confusion.
    Confusion is way too weak for how rare condition it is :/

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How much health do you have :o

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed group condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Show me any single condition application skill that will do more damage in a single tick than as roughly equal power skill.

    I think the nearest you might get is torch on guardian. What people don't factor in when they see 3 conditions ticking for 3-4k is that it's the result of multiple attacks usually so the equivalent power would be getting hit by 4-5 attacks, you'd have 0 health from the power attacks.

    Some condition application does need toning down like burn guardian and torment should become a bit more rare, condi thief could do with being less front loaded etc but in general condition is actually pretty fine, it's a few outliers that are the issue which everyone abuses because the GW2 player base after 8 years cannot cleanse properly.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think the nearest you might get is torch on guardian.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
    This has higher power coefficient than ranger gs2 btw

    Same goes for P/D 3 on thief, it has likr 1.6-1.7 coefficient and repeater has 1.5 coefficient.

    Hybrid OP.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    I think the nearest you might get is torch on guardian.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Fire
    This has higher power coefficient than ranger gs2 btw

    Same goes for P/D 3 on thief, it has likr 1.6-1.7 coefficient and repeater has 1.5 coefficient.

    Hybrid OP.

    Yeah I thought it would be torch, wasn't sure on repeater though. The condition component won't tick as high as power damage though.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    These numbers are pretty funny tho. Super rough rounding we got:

    First pic is 130k, 17k.

    Then we go 35k, 30k, 20k.

    Then 11k, 5k, and 5k.

    Finally 30k 11k, 9k and 6k

    One of these things is not like the others

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I guess in the first pic he was able to stay alive pretty long while in the 2nd pic we see torment being close to burning ... must have made an additional pressure on the health pool to kill him quicker.

    Shows that burning itself is not enough. I think the main problem are some classes that can push tons of conditions repeatedly just with auto attacks or attacks with pretty short CD. They will keep 1 condition permanently up with a few stacks - if you cleanse regularly or dodge but you can't dodge and cleanse every auto attack. If not then that stacks will go up pretty fast and other utility skills might also help to keep up the pressure.

    How do you read the "hits" on the stats? Does it mean "hit" = 1 individual tick (regardless of the stacks). Or does 1 hit mean = 1 stack per tick. (And 8 stacks ticking once = 8 hits?) If each "hit" meant 1 stack per tick ... then it would mean the conditions hit pretty hard. (I mean ...would mean more than 1k per stack in the first picture and if you take into account that it is easy with auto attacks to keep up a few stacks in addition ...)

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    So you are trying to tell me you have ONLY burn on you in a teamfight? Add 2 stacks of burn to 3 stacks of torment, 1 stack of poison, 4 stacks of confusion and we get into typical teamfight territory.

    That's like... no damage at all.
    572 burn ticks, 366 moving torment ticks, 94 poison ticks, 1025 skill use confusion ticks.
    In total, 2k condi ticks considering you are using skills without any cast time and moving nonstop.

    I'll make you a favor and make it 10 poison. That's.. get ready... 3k condi ticks. Congratulations.

    10 poison does 1k ticks lol.

    lol. People use every logical BS to defend Op stuffs.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crozame.4098 said:
    lol. People use every logical BS to defend Op stuffs.

    I could just be saying "nobody decent has problems vs condi, get good noob" but that doesn't explain anything.

  • Chasind.3128Chasind.3128 Member ✭✭✭

    I think the situation for PvP wouldn't be so bad if the GW2 devs were actually good at playing their game.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    whats broken, you taking 150k condi before deth, or this
    https://imgur.com/gallery/ebFFWPh

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2020

    @Chasind.3128 said:
    I think the situation for PvP wouldn't be so bad if the GW2 devs were actually good at playing their game.

    c'mon man, most of the people crying in this thread don't even know what skills apply the condis they are dying from. the PvP situation was always gonna feel bad for people with limited understanding of the game, can't be helped

    like, if you have no idea why or how you died to something, thinking that makes it automatically OP is pretty foolish. maybe you just need to brush up on your game knowledge and have a think about your play

    chances are if you think something is OP, but can't actually name any skills or explain what killed you, it's probably not. you just have no clue what you are doing

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chasind.3128 said:
    I think the situation for PvP wouldn't be so bad if the GW2 devs were actually good at playing their game.

    They are. People vastly overestimate their own skills and when they lose its everything but themselves that is at fault.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage. It completely contradicts the whole reason behind power damage and condition damage. All skills with conditions need a complete rework - reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start. Get the ticks down to 2-3K max and the logic behind condition damage is maintained.

    Maybe if it hits 7-8k you deserve it

    You need to avoid condi dmg in the same way that you have to do with power.

    If you have 14 stacks torment or 10 stacks burn, maybe because you do not move your kitten

    Thats the thing. You cant avoid it the same way. With power, high damage skills are very telegraphed and dodgable. With conditions, not so much. Burn guard can stack over 7-8k burning crits all on a single instant cast skill. Which you cant avoid. Its instant. Others use on-X traits or effects, where the only way to not get condis would be to have 100% dodge uptime, which also isnt possible.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage. It completely contradicts the whole reason behind power damage and condition damage. All skills with conditions need a complete rework - reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start. Get the ticks down to 2-3K max and the logic behind condition damage is maintained.

    Maybe if it hits 7-8k you deserve it

    You need to avoid condi dmg in the same way that you have to do with power.

    If you have 14 stacks torment or 10 stacks burn, maybe because you do not move your kitten

    Thats the thing. You cant avoid it the same way. With power, high damage skills are very telegraphed and dodgable. With conditions, not so much. Burn guard can stack over 7-8k burning crits all on a single instant cast skill. Which you cant avoid. Its instant. Others use on-X traits or effects, where the only way to not get condis would be to have 100% dodge uptime, which also isnt possible.

    Question, why does this not happen all players?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Condi is fine (there are a few exceptions), already explained.

    Sorry they aren‘t fine when a tick does 7-8K damage. It completely contradicts the whole reason behind power damage and condition damage. All skills with conditions need a complete rework - reducing the stacks applied of every condition on every skill and prolonging their duration would be a start. Get the ticks down to 2-3K max and the logic behind condition damage is maintained.

    Maybe if it hits 7-8k you deserve it

    You need to avoid condi dmg in the same way that you have to do with power.

    If you have 14 stacks torment or 10 stacks burn, maybe because you do not move your kitten

    Thats the thing. You cant avoid it the same way. With power, high damage skills are very telegraphed and dodgable. With conditions, not so much. Burn guard can stack over 7-8k burning crits all on a single instant cast skill. Which you cant avoid. Its instant. Others use on-X traits or effects, where the only way to not get condis would be to have 100% dodge uptime, which also isnt possible.

    Question, why does this not happen all players?

    It does. They just use Condi Cleanses. Which you have to run, but that in itself sucks.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    Showing death breakdown to prove a point is... bad. You have a huge downed healthpool and no way to mitigate damage, you can get revived while getting cleaved at the same time etc. Now condition damage might be a problem(I personally don't feel like it is, CC spam is way worse), but death breakdown does kitten to prove that point.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    Are you standing still? I've never seen these numbers. Maybe when PoF launched with all the power creep, that kitten was crazy.

    Condis are in a really good place right now and nerfing condi builds would be a mistake. In higher brackets, power builds are still dominant but there are a couple of good and relatively balanced condi builds too.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Are you standing still? I've never seen these numbers. Maybe when PoF launched with all the power creep, that kitten was crazy.

    Condis are in a really good place right now and nerfing condi builds would be a mistake. In higher brackets, power builds are still dominant but there are a couple of good and relatively balanced condi builds too

    -10

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    Gw2 death log does not give information worth judging ideas about balance at all. Anyone with big enough brain can tell that. I hope people stop giving screenshot of deathlog and start putting videos to make their point.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Are you standing still? I've never seen these numbers. Maybe when PoF launched with all the power creep, that kitten was crazy.

    Condis are in a really good place right now and nerfing condi builds would be a mistake. In higher brackets, power builds are still dominant but there are a couple of good and relatively balanced condi builds too

    -10

    I'm not watching that video, use words to get your point across. Condis being OP in the higher brackets is a hard sell to me.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed group condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Sigh. This reminds me of about a year ago they killed Anti-toxin Scrapper totally. My guess is the old balance team has left and when the new nerf team took over, they don't like what has been done, and killed almost everyone.

  • fumcheg.1936fumcheg.1936 Member ✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Are you standing still? I've never seen these numbers. Maybe when PoF launched with all the power creep, that kitten was crazy.

    Condis are in a really good place right now and nerfing condi builds would be a mistake. In higher brackets, power builds are still dominant but there are a couple of good and relatively balanced condi builds too

    -10

    That's not even pure condition build. That's hybrid with 12k HP pool and almost no sustainability.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    this is OK. Balance should be broken, was broken, and hope will be. If some players can't dodge, change biulds , change class, they should be meat for other people.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    @Mil.3562 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:
    Something is broken in a game when conditions, which are supposed to do damage over time end up doing more damage per tick than actual power skills. Last balance patch didn‘t only hit conditions so little, but nerfed group condition removals on classes like Firebrand

    Sigh. This reminds me of about a year ago they killed Anti-toxin Scrapper totally. My guess is the old balance team has left and when the new nerf team took over, they don't like what has been done, and killed almost everyone.

    there are no old and new balance team. There are old Anet from Guild Wars 1 and a new Anet of Guild Wars 2


    Guild Wars 1>Guild Wars 2

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'