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Let's make a list

Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 17, 2020 in PVP

let's list what's OP, OK or underpowered (UP), being OK the desired power level

the vote is considering the strongest build available by that spec

core ele UP
tempest OP
weaver OK

core mesmer OK
chrono UP
mirage OK

core necro OK
reaper OK
scourge UP

ranger OK some pets still OP
druid UP
soulbeast OK

thief

not sure what's overperforming wotu condi but that is OP, the power variations are ok not sure about DE state

engi UP
scrapper OK
holo OP

warrior Ok
berserker UP
spellbreaker OK

rev not sure
herald OP
renegade it seems ok after patch/hotfix not sure

Guardians in general need a nerf to their burn, after that they may be Ok and fb still OP

weaver, power thief and core necro may come out stronger if every OP is properly nerfed along with FB

Comments

  • PfillBonBon.1928PfillBonBon.1928 Member ✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    Renegade has a lot of damage/cc but cant deal with pressure. Their performance in soloQ is completely random, better in duoq though. Herald isn't OP in soloQ, everybody plays something that can easilly deal with it. Core res doesnt eist. Core ranger is better than SB/druid.

    Druid is bad because if you want to go off thorn ult, they can easilly roll over trap drops to ignore the cc. Nobody cares about bunker druid.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020

    nvm changed my mind

  • Wojciech.8024Wojciech.8024 Member ✭✭

    And the purpose of such a list is....?

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭

    @Wojciech.8024 said:
    And the purpose of such a list is....?

    To prevent the balance team to continue the transversal work they started few months ago.
    It is too early for such a topic, we should encourage the devs to continue reshaping the game in a more healthy way. These QQ threads "nerf this buff that" bring nothing more than noise in this overall work.

  • Wojciech.8024Wojciech.8024 Member ✭✭

    Then it should be way more complex. There is a huge difference between the same specialization in different game modes. Additionally reducing the complexity of each specialization to a statement OK or NOT OK (either way) defies the idea of the discussion entirely. If it is supposed to be a serious analysis it should come down to in-depth insight to the trait/stats-specific level. Otherwise, it can be summarized as "according to player X some classes require changes while other can stay as they are, while according to player Y different specs need a balance". Pretty much obvious conclusion that can be drawn for each player without making any list. Just like saying an obvious truth such as "it either rains or does not rain" - it is always a true statement, but does it clarify in any way what clothes to wear today?

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    WASD is UP
    Scripted attacks and movements are OP.
    Runescape having more mind games and tech than GW2 is apparently OK.
    Hard CC in a game where attacks are aimed for you is pretty anti-fun.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Scripted attacks and movements are OP.

    Two words: tab targeting

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Swagg.9236 said:
    Scripted attacks and movements are OP.

    Two words: tab targeting

    Yeah, it was a really hot meme to make a game in which you would feature manual aiming to some degree but then also just have tab targeting too like one wouldn't be inherently way stronger than the other with really nothing to balance the scales.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    Warrior - UP
    Berserker - UP
    Spellbreaker - Almost acceptable "but I feel it is the best model for what a balanced class should actually look like"

    Guardian - Acceptable "Lots of people complaining about condi but it's really not that big of a deal"
    Dragonhunter - Acceptable
    Firebrand - Acceptable

    Revenant - UP
    Herald - OP "Shiro too much damage for it's chase potential/target +ing power. Mallyx is too tanky"
    Renegade - Sometimes UP, sometimes OP "It's just all circumstantial. But Kalla is annoying and questionable to if it should ever be viable in pvp""

    Engineer - UP
    Scrapper - Acceptable
    Holosmith - Acceptable

    Ranger - Acceptable
    Druid - UP
    Soulbeast - UP

    Thief - P/D is stupidly OP "Not even going to explain why. There are plenty of other threads currently discussing this build"
    Daredevil - Acceptable
    Deadeye - UP

    Mesmer - UP
    Chrono - UP
    Mirage - UP

    Elementalist - UP
    Tempest - OP "It's the aura share, it's too much"
    Weaver - Acceptable

    Necromancer - Acceptable
    Reaper - Acceptable
    Scourge - UP

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    Warrior is Ok ? O.o

    Really ? Huh. I'll have to review my constant Invulnerability builds again, since it's acceptable.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    My list:

    Ele UP
    Tempest OP
    Weaver OP

    Necro OK
    Reaper OK
    Scourge UP

    Mesmer OK
    Chrono UP
    Mirage OK

    Warrior UP
    Berserker UP
    Spellbreaker UP

    Guardian OP
    Dragonhunter OK
    Firebrand OP

    Revenant OK
    Herold OP
    Renegade OP

    Engineer OK
    Scrapper OP
    Holosmith OP

    Ranger OP
    Druid UP
    Soulbeast OP

    Thief OP
    Daredevil OK
    Deadeye OK

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    My list:

    Ele UP
    Tempest OP
    Weaver OP

    Necro OK
    Reaper OK
    Scourge UP

    Mesmer OK
    Chrono UP
    Mirage OK

    Warrior UP
    Berserker UP
    Spellbreaker UP

    Guardian OP
    Dragonhunter OK
    Firebrand OP

    Revenant OK
    Herold OP
    Renegade OP

    Engineer OK
    Scrapper OP
    Holosmith OP

    Ranger OP
    Druid UP
    Soulbeast OP

    Thief OP
    Daredevil OK
    Deadeye OK

    Most accurate so far

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    My list:

    Ele UP
    Tempest OP
    Weaver OP

    Necro OK
    Reaper OK
    Scourge UP

    Mesmer OK
    Chrono UP
    Mirage OK

    Warrior UP
    Berserker UP
    Spellbreaker UP

    Guardian OP
    Dragonhunter OK
    Firebrand OP

    Revenant OK
    Herold OP
    Renegade OP

    Engineer OK
    Scrapper OP
    Holosmith OP

    Ranger OP
    Druid UP
    Soulbeast OP

    Thief OP
    Daredevil OK
    Deadeye OK

    so almost every class is ok/op except the class you play? That coincidence is too suspect bro.

    I dont play Warrior in PvP and do you think Warrior is ok in this meta? I the last 240 Games i played i can count the number of warrios on one hand.

  • VICBEAR.1529VICBEAR.1529 Member ✭✭

    What does it all mean? OP, UP? I do not understand.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @DanAlcedo.3281 said:
    My list:

    Ele UP
    Tempest OP
    Weaver OP

    Necro OK
    Reaper OK
    Scourge UP

    Mesmer OK
    Chrono UP
    Mirage OK

    Warrior UP
    Berserker UP
    Spellbreaker UP

    Guardian OP
    Dragonhunter OK
    Firebrand OP

    Revenant OK
    Herold OP
    Renegade OP

    Engineer OK
    Scrapper OP
    Holosmith OP

    Ranger OP
    Druid UP
    Soulbeast OP

    Thief OP
    Daredevil OK
    Deadeye OK

    so almost every class is ok/op except the class you play? That coincidence is too suspect bro.

    LoL I was thinking the same as I read that list. But hey, we were asked for our opinions!

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    I wouldn't trust anyone here unless they main a class, reason being: Bias.

    Like a player who hates guardian/warrior/mesmer/thief will say they are op no matter what and only say they are possibly balanced when they are not viable, and these descriptions are not good enough.

    Where are the thief mains here to speak about the class? where are the high pvp platinum mesmers and warrior mains?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Naxos.2503 said:
    Warrior is Ok ? O.o

    Really ? Huh. I'll have to review my constant Invulnerability builds again, since it's acceptable.

    Getting 1v1d by a thief using no brain cells is hardly "okay". Not to mention stone heart/elemental shielding.

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    Revenant - UP
    Herald - OP "Shiro too much damage for it's chase potential/target +ing power. Mallyx is too tanky"
    Renegade - Sometimes UP, sometimes OP "It's just all circumstantial. But Kalla is annoying and questionable to if it should ever be viable in pvp""

    Power Shiro is overrated in soloQ, explosives holo better.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    I would like to see more what mechanics are op/ok/up.

    Ok here my list:


    Ele - up
    tempest - up
    Weaver - op/ok

    Mesmer - ok
    chrono - ok
    mirrage - op

    Necro - ok
    reaper - ok
    scourge - up


    ranger - up
    druid - ok
    soulbeast - ok

    thief - ok
    daredevil - up/op
    deadeye - up/ok

    engie - up
    scrapper - ok/op
    holo - ok


    warri - up
    berserk - up
    spellbreaker - ok

    Guard- up
    dh - up
    FB - ok/op

    rev - ok/op
    herald - ok/op
    renegard - ok/op


    • Based on playerskill, most classes can dramaticaly change to underpowered and all burst/condi builds to op against most players!
    • On theoriecraft you have the best matchup as mirrage
    • kite is op, but most players dont use them right
    • best duo-q on theory is druid+warrior cause you can hold 2 points and/or support teamfights
    • best duo-q on abuse playerhabbits is double mirrage if you can play that class otherwise just play 2 burst combs
    • worst abuseable map: Temple
    • best abuseable map: Niflhel
  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    everyone saying tempest is OP lol clearly haven't played one
    funny funny

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:
    chrono - ok
    dh - up

    I call sarcasm.

  • xp eke xp.6724xp eke xp.6724 Member ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:
    I would like to see more what mechanics are op/ok/up.

    Ok here my list:


    Ele - up
    tempest - up
    Weaver - op/ok

    Mesmer - ok
    chrono - ok
    mirrage - op

    Necro - ok
    reaper - ok
    scourge - up


    ranger - up
    druid - ok
    soulbeast - ok

    thief - ok
    daredevil - up/op
    deadeye - up/ok

    engie - up
    scrapper - ok/op
    holo - ok


    warri - up
    berserk - up
    spellbreaker - ok

    Guard- up
    dh - up
    FB - ok/op

    rev - ok/op
    herald - ok/op
    renegard - ok/op


    • Based on playerskill, most classes can dramaticaly change to underpowered and all burst/condi builds to op against most players!
    • On theoriecraft you have the best matchup as mirrage
    • kite is op, but most players dont use them right
    • best duo-q on theory is druid+warrior cause you can hold 2 points and/or support teamfights
    • best duo-q on abuse playerhabbits is double mirrage if you can play that class otherwise just play 2 burst combs
    • worst abuseable map: Temple
    • best abuseable map: Niflhel

    I like how in your book, chrono is OK while ranger is UP. Lovely :D

    Im watching the Theorie, on that side, pets never hit outside of petswap in meele range or if your Smokescale uses Smoke Assault. Ofc most playerskills never reached the theoretical best, so my list doesnt represent what you will see on matches.
    Also we still have the bug that you can run inside a character sothat you interrupt single range skills, means most ranged skills works against all classes, as long they dont abuse that mechanic^^.

    • note: it existed since beginning and was never fixxed, also like multi hits against stealthed enermies xD

    On the other side, chrono has better bursts cause they are saver and im not talking about f1-5 outside of mele.

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:
    chrono - ok
    dh - up

    I call sarcasm.

    why?

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’ll just second the notion that it is hard to say what is OP versus OK without a really nuanced discussion.

    You are better off with two threads: one for what is OP and why and another for what is UP and why.

    Personally, I find the discussion about what is underpowered more interesting. It lets us talk about what those professions need to be viable and why. And if they aren’t performing well regardless of having good tools to theoretically do well...it opens up the discussion about the meta more broadly. This is where we get interesting discussions of necro being able to be super tanky or just a punching bag with low survivability in team fights depending on the balance at the time.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:
    I would like to see more what mechanics are op/ok/up.

    Ok here my list:


    Ele - up
    tempest - up
    Weaver - op/ok

    Mesmer - ok
    chrono - ok
    mirrage - op

    Necro - ok
    reaper - ok
    scourge - up


    ranger - up
    druid - ok
    soulbeast - ok

    thief - ok
    daredevil - up/op
    deadeye - up/ok

    engie - up
    scrapper - ok/op
    holo - ok


    warri - up
    berserk - up
    spellbreaker - ok

    Guard- up
    dh - up
    FB - ok/op

    rev - ok/op
    herald - ok/op
    renegard - ok/op


    • Based on playerskill, most classes can dramaticaly change to underpowered and all burst/condi builds to op against most players!
    • On theoriecraft you have the best matchup as mirrage
    • kite is op, but most players dont use them right
    • best duo-q on theory is druid+warrior cause you can hold 2 points and/or support teamfights
    • best duo-q on abuse playerhabbits is double mirrage if you can play that class otherwise just play 2 burst combs
    • worst abuseable map: Temple
    • best abuseable map: Niflhel

    I like how in your book, chrono is OK while ranger is UP. Lovely :D

    Im watching the Theorie, on that side, pets never hit outside of petswap in meele range or if your Smokescale uses Smoke Assault. Ofc most playerskills never reached the theoretical best, so my list doesnt represent what you will see on matches.
    Also we still have the bug that you can run inside a character sothat you interrupt single range skills, means most ranged skills works against all classes, as long they dont abuse that mechanic^^.

    • note: it existed since beginning and was never fixxed, also like multi hits against stealthed enermies xD

    On the other side, chrono has better bursts cause they are saver and im not talking about f1-5 outside of mele.

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:
    chrono - ok
    dh - up

    I call sarcasm.

    why?

    I invite you to play this "bursty SAFE" chrono, you would quickly SKIDADDLE SKIDOODLE to the ranger

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What kills me - OP
    What takes a while before there's a winner - OK
    What I kill while watching netflix in the other room - UP

    There's the TLDR for everyone.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @apharma.3741 said:
    What kills me - OP
    What takes a while before there's a winner - OK
    What I kill while watching netflix in the other room - UP

    There's the TLDR for everyone.

    lol, what about that build the kills you quickly but it's bad against most builds

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khalisto.5780 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:
    What kills me - OP
    What takes a while before there's a winner - OK
    What I kill while watching netflix in the other room - UP

    There's the TLDR for everyone.

    lol, what about that build the kills you quickly but it's bad against most builds

    See line 1

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aelska.4609 said:
    To prevent the balance team to continue the transversal work they started few months ago.

    why we need this? feel that you not up increase skill, change build or class.

    It is too early for such a topic, we should encourage the devs to continue reshaping the game in a more healthy way.

    why you wait from changes some logic? the balance changes only changes. Probably people not properly understand what it is "rebalace" word. It is only changes, but not more.

    These QQ threads "nerf this buff that" bring nothing more than noise in this overall work.

    no, that thread like "please nerf someone" is fun and good trolling. If someone not see fun in this is not that this fun is not exist.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    skilled player is OP
    non skilled not OP

    the choose proper class and build is part of skill.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait how did chrono get sent as ok? i thought it was severely crippled due to nerfs?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xp eke xp.6724 said:

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    I call sarcasm.

    why?

    If it wasn't sarcasm, then you just don't know what you are talking about.