[Suggestion] Bring back Siege-Repair Hammers — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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[Suggestion] Bring back Siege-Repair Hammers

Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭

As the title says, I suggest to bring Siege-Repair Hammers back into the game.

Reason:
Everytime I am checking our Borderland Garrison or EBG Keep, I am frequently running across our damaged Cannon, Mortar, Arrow Cart or other sieges, and every time I see them, I think "Why the hell Repair Hammers exists in multiple PvE maps (for example right beside Tequatl Turrets), but in the WvW, where it will be a real "Quality of Life" improvement, they actually dont exist?".Some enemies even intentionally abusing this. They just made a "preparing attack" to just damage all Keep sieges until all of them have only milimeter of HP bar left, and then completelly leave our Keep to resupply and then make a main attack. They know that if they will completely destroy our sieges, we will rebuild our sieges back in the meantime when they resupplying their army. They just blatantly abusing the fact that If they left just a single milimeter of HP bar in all our sieges, they know we cannot do anything about it, and when they arrive with the main attack, they decimate all our sieges within seconds. Add on top of it the fact that they abusing another fact - they know we even cannot build new undamaged sieges, because there is a limit of only 5 sieges within a 1000 unit radius, so we cannot build new undamaged sieges in critical defensive locations.

Bring back Repair Hammers, and to avoid abusing them, make them usable only under these conditions:

1) One Repair Hammer will cost 10 WvW supply (and will repair portion of siege HP bar equally to its supply building cost) and use it as a bundle environmental weapon (like First Aid Kits near WvW Sentries) , so one player can only have one Repair Hammer at any time
(to avoid hoarding a massive stacks of them by siege trolls and Keep supply depleter trolls)

2) Repair Hammer can only be usable in non-combat mode
(to avoid abusing them as a way for invincible insta-repaired sieges in fights)

3) Create a reuse-time (for each repairable object) of something like 20 seconds, where anyone (even another players) have to wait for the duration of this timer before another Repair Hammer can be used again on that same object
(to avoid abusing them as a way for invincible insta-repaired offensive Arrow Carts etc)

Those three simple conditions of using Repair Hammers should be enough to avoid any abusing non-intended method of repairing. I definitely do not want invincible sieges, I am suggesting this just because we should have an option to somehow repair damaged sieges, when we have fully stocked Keep, any enemies are kilometers / miles away from it, but at this moment we still dont have any options to repair when we run across a damaged siege. Make Repair Hammers able to repair any sieges and objective walls and gates. Ability to repair golems with them would be a big discussion and probaly "big no" , because IMHO golems are intended by ArenaNet as "gold sink" in WvW game mode.

// discuss, feel free to bring another opinions / suggestions about this

Comments

  • Balthazzarr.1349Balthazzarr.1349 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    That isn’t abuse. That is darn smart game play. The best way to combat that is to have scouts in your Keep defending those cannons. Otherwise this will continue as it has been since the beginning of time, and should remain.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still want my portable morder i never saw them as that powerful and more Siege counters then players. I sadly missed the event for repair hammers they should at least have them in EOTM.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • CutesySylveon.8290CutesySylveon.8290 Member ✭✭✭

    No, siege is bad enough as it is. Last thing I want to deal with is a group of enemies huddled into a structure repairing all their ACs and catapults.

  • HazyDaisy.4107HazyDaisy.4107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most defensive seige does jack squat against attack seige nowadays, especially with reduced wall health, therefore the old argument made during the repair hammers hay day about "fighting seige" is pretty much null. Still, anything that compromises the great ppt train will always be labeled defensive advantage and thus will "hinder fights", therefore it's bad!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balthazzarr.1349 said:
    That isn’t abuse. That is darn smart game play. The best way to combat that is to have scouts in your Keep defending those cannons. Otherwise this will continue as it has been since the beginning of time, and should remain.

    He literally said he was scouting and found these damaged siege weapons...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 18, 2020

    IMO Anet really missed out on the opportunity to combine siege repair with siege decay and make a unified system maintained by supply. Siege loose hp at certain intervals out of combat. Siege can be repaired out of combat. Nothing more to it.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I believe siege hammers came into testing before they did the big sweeping adjustments to siege and also before conditions were able to affect them. They were more of an advantage to an attacking team than defending at that time to be honest, when you could just hide behind shields and repair everything under it. Shields was one of the worst things they could have brought into the game.

    Also I have no problem with players pre-planning attacks and bringing siege down to a sliver of health to kill on the real attack, that's playing smart, havoc teams use to do that all the time back in the day when prepping t3 stuff for attacks. On that point I also wouldn't have a problem with players using repair hammers to burn supplies on a siege that would 90% of the time be burned down by a zergs anyways. We got participation trolls that burn supply on smc outer walls, maybe they can use them on the siege too and keep the supply low when it hits t3.

    Siege is not much of a problem for boon balls these days anyways.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • CutesySylveon.8290CutesySylveon.8290 Member ✭✭✭

    @HazyDaisy.4107 said:
    Most defensive seige does jack squat against attack seige nowadays, especially with reduced wall health, therefore the old argument made during the repair hammers hay day about "fighting seige" is pretty much null. Still, anything that compromises the great ppt train will always be labeled defensive advantage and thus will "hinder fights", therefore it's bad!

    What? Siege is still ridiculous. The main reason why siege feels weak is because shield generators are absolutely busted. Two people with alacrity can cycle bubbles and make defensive siege worthless. On the flip side, one mortar or catapult can stop attackers completely if they don't have shield gens unless they want to PvD. Remove or severely nerf shield gens and a lot will improve.

  • Wow.
    Then maybe stop being such siege huggers next time if you have enough numbers to fight enemy zerg?
    I'm also damaging cannons/mortars and leave them at 10% hp, because I'm really tired of these sieges wars and people that can only hide from equal number fights 24/7. Imagine going for objective and clearing all sieges(destroying them fully), then go to get supplies for another attack just to see 2x as many sieges than before, it's tiring and boring to "fight" these kind of servers. What's the point of WvW when there is no fights?
    The last thing WvW needs is more siege wars.
    Better ask for fixes like bringing LoS to Rangers Barrage skill that hits too deep and can take sieges without much problem. There is reason why Dragon's Tooth was nerfed.

  • acidic.4356acidic.4356 Member ✭✭✭

    @Faenar.8036 said:
    As the title says, I suggest to bring Siege-Repair Hammers back into the game.

    Reason:
    Everytime I am checking our Borderland Garrison or EBG Keep, I am frequently running across our damaged Cannon, Mortar, Arrow Cart or other sieges, and every time I see them, I think "Why the hell Repair Hammers exists in multiple PvE maps (for example right beside Tequatl Turrets)

    you have a point.... but why stop there... lets have a tactic u can put into keeps that spawns tequatl to defend it... u pull tactic and bamm..there is tequatl (or any other world boss) and they will help the defending team bash that pesky enemy zerg that keeps trying to take ur stuff.. i mean, the more pve stuff we can get into the mode the better.

    dear anet - rollback to year 2 of wvw, and start again.. thankyou.

  • Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭

    To ppl calling me siege hugger:
    Believe me or not, Iam not the typical AC hugger which never leave the safety of his Keep. I am sometimes sacrificing my pips for scouting important onjectives (usually until they became Tier3) or sometimes escorting Dolyaks, but most of my gameplay is running with a zerg frequently switching between attacking and defending as the battlefield situation currently needs. I believe sieges are in this game as an option of quick first response defense, before the main zerg called by scouts can arrive to help with defending the objective (and then, if these sieges are still alive, as a fire support for defending force). By the way, even after the last nerf of Player Character skills (roughly by 20%, include healing ones), I still dont understand how a decent 50-man zerg can die to siege weapons. By "decent" I mean all characters are at 80 lvl, at least Exotic gear, and all combos, especially Water Fields are called on voice command (like TeamSpeak or Discord). With the exception of focused Ballista sniping, no one in that zerg is capable of dying even to focused fire of 5 superior Arrow Carts. Yes, we tested it with guilds on our server (special thanks to Time Keepers [TK] back in the old days - outstanding voice commanding and teamwork effort), and the only classes capable of dying were thieves with 10k HP, which are designed to be roamers anyways , not zerg soldiers. We thoroughly tested this years ago, and it still work nowadays even after all the skill nerfs (I have to admit its harder now, but still possible with enough effort).

    No amount of sieges can prevent a good zerg from capturing even fully defended Tier 3 Keep. Only another well organized defending zerg can do that. But okay, if atrittion wars to slowly deplete enemy Keep supplies and then lay a full one hour siege until enemy T3 Keep is finally captured is not enjoyable anymore for majority of WvWers, if the current WvW meta is just Karma-trains easy (preferably empty) objectives unable to even slightly delay the enemy karma-train with defensive sieges, then so be it, my idea will probably became outvoted for the sake of effective and easy karma farming.. No problem, I was just trying to "help with my 2 cents" for more fights, when defending zerg arrive to fight attacking zerg, it can be nice and long fight. Oh yes, I do not consider Players vs Doors an emply undefended Tower as a fight. Thats "karma-train", thats not "a fight".

    Okay, thanks you all for your reactions and different point of views : )

  • Wahlao.1069Wahlao.1069 Member ✭✭

    In my humble opinion, the problem right now is the 'infinite' lifespan and infinite ammo of siege weapons.
    All siege weapons like cata, ACs, ballistas, shield gen all have infinite lifespan (as long as you click on it once per hour), and infinite shots.

    1) We should limit the timer on these weapons to (eg. 4 hours) with no timer refresh, this simulates typical wear and tear.
    This forces defenders to keep building defensive siege weapons every few hours if they want to defend a tower/keep.

    2) There should be an ammo system for these weapons (for eg. 5 shots)
    Once the ammo is depleted, 1 supply gets deducted from the firer to replenish the ammo back again.
    This prevents defenders from hiding inside towers/keep firing weapons forever. You have to make shots count now.
    At some point, the supply is going to run out, and they will be forced to either come out to fight/abandon/get a supply train of player runners going to other places to get supply and take over the firing.
    Naturally the ammo system should apply to attacking siege as well like catas and rams.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Siege repair only failed because nobody even knew it was a thing when it was tested.

    I remember being in Teamspeak with 70 other people when the mail came to vote for yes/no and the reaction was "kitten are Repair Kits?"

    Wasnt it that they were on a vendor nobody speaks to, on a tab nobody knew about?

  • Quench.7091Quench.7091 Member ✭✭

    I agree that it shouldn't be a strategy to keep siege weapons barely alive. ArenaNet went through the effort to make it so that siege weapons are always within distance of AoE attacks. They should go through the effort to make it so that siege can be maintained against minimal effort attacks.

    How about instead of getting repair kits, it's just a mastery point that lets you press your special action button next to siege to repair them with supplies?

  • Yuffi.2430Yuffi.2430 Member ✭✭

    You don't need siege hammers. Just make siege repairable with normal supply (like walls), at the same cost it takes to build the siege. Supply is often a limited resource anyway.
    Siege usually takes damage faster than it builds so even if a player was constantly repairing the siege it would eventually go down, and a player repairing siege is a player not fighting. The only time repairable siege would make any difference is when people take siege down early and then go away for a bit, and that tactic is pretty redundant since siege does less player damage than it used to.