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my thoughts on charr speaking common

For the last couple of days I’ve been thinking about something Bangar does that I think is weird for such a racist character. Which lead me to make a theory about charr as a whole.

Bangar speaks common and not in the charr language. If he truly believes charr are the superior race why doesn’t speak his native tongue, or at the very least complain that he has to speak an “inferior dialect”. But then I remembered that every charr speaks common. Even in the Black Citadel they speak common when they don’t have to. Then I remembered reading something on the GW2 wiki about charr physiology that got me thinking even more.

According to the wiki charr can hear high frequencies like a dog and low frequencies like an elephant. But they have a hard time hearing mid-frequencies such as human speech. I like this it makes charr feel more animalistic and obviously it helped explain some of the racial tension between charr and humans. But from a logical viewpoint I don’t understand what need the charr would have to develop this kind of hearing. Especially when their society really started to grow, it becomes a weakness and charr would never stand for that.

But that got me thinking again, what if their vocal cords adapted to be able to use high and low frequencies? Meaning the charr language would be spoken at either a higher or lower frequency or even switch between the two. Which is why most people would only hear growls or roars when a charr spoke. They couldn’t fully hear what was being said. So charr would speak common as so they won't be viewed as animals. And in turn that would explain why Bangar uses common to speak, he wants to be heard and seen as superior. And he can’t do that if most everyone thinks he sounds like a wild animal.

I’m sorry if my rambling doesn’t make much sense, I just had to get it out. I am by no means a biologist and I have no real understanding acoustics. So I can’t really say if my theory is plausible, or even explain it more than “I think this could be right”.

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2020

    Sound plausible.

    Ultimately it’ll be for gameplay reasons though. It’s easier on the players, easier on the VA and ifc the writers who don’t need to write a second language.
    One language also means they can more easily be a part of Orders.

    Complaining about using an inferior dialect would have been a nice touch tho

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • scriptoimpium.7806scriptoimpium.7806 Member ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Sound plausible.

    Ultimately it’ll be for gameplay reasons though. It’s easier on the players, easier on the VA and ifc the writers who don’t need to write a second language.
    One language also means they can more easily be a part of Orders.

    I understand, it would also be hard on the coding side as well to implement another language for just one race as well. Maybe they can have some ambient dialogue in the next chapter to give us an in-game reason for it. That could be nice.

    Complaining about using an inferior dialect would have been a nice touch tho

    Thank you, I feel that having Bangar say something like that would make him sound more hateful. That he would be so disgustingly casual about his racism could make him an even more memorable villain in my opinion.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just think the first Charr heard some humans swear and then they never wanted to stop.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 19, 2020

    @scriptoimpium.7806 said:
    According to the languages of tyria wiki page, the common language is actually 11,000 years old. predating the human's arrival on tyria in 786 BE. Common was created by dwarves, jotun, Forgotten, mursaat, and Seers during the last cycle of elder dragons awakening. because they needed a way to communicate with each other. When the humans arrived the charr already spoke common as seen in GW1. BUUUUUUUUUUT

    Ah that's interesting. I didn't even register that either. Good spot

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Dustfinger.9510Dustfinger.9510 Member ✭✭✭

    Good on a-net. It was easy for us to assume that common was from humans but a-net deliberately veered away from that common trope as well.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20, 2020

    @scriptoimpium.7806 said:
    According to the languages of tyria wiki page, the common language is actually 11,000 years old. predating the human's arrival on tyria in 786 BE. Common was created by dwarves, jotun, Forgotten, mursaat, and Seers during the last cycle of elder dragons awakening. because they needed a way to communicate with each other. When the humans arrived the charr already spoke common as seen in GW1. BUUUUUUUUUUT

    While we were told that by devs in an interview, it should be noted that in-game and in lore articles, the "common language" is infact called human by non-humans (specifically including charr), while by humans it's called Tyrian.

    There is no language called "common", unlike other fantasy settings with multiple species that need to speak our own language for audience ease. In Guild Wars, the language everyone is heard speaking frequently, is effectively "Tyrian human".

    But given that comment from a dev comment, despite it modernly being called Tyrian human, it wasn't invented by the humans.

    My theory is that it was the language the Forgotten used, since they were part of that group of surviving species, came from the Mists serving the Six, and guided many other species in the aftermath of the Elder Dragons. If so, then it could be (evolved from) a language of the human/Forgotten homeworld.

    Unfortunately, ANet doesn't go in depth into common everyday cultural things, especially for boring humans, and we don't have any real explanation for why everyone speaks this language beyond the obvious design reasons.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    While we were told that by devs in an interview, it should be noted that in-game and in lore articles, the "common language" is infact called human by non-humans (specifically including charr), while by humans it's called Tyrian.

    There is no language called "common", unlike other fantasy settings with multiple species that need to speak our own language for audience ease. In Guild Wars, the language everyone is heard speaking frequently, is effectively "Tyrian human".

    But given that comment from a dev comment, despite it modernly being called Tyrian human, it wasn't invented by the humans.

    My theory is that it was the language the Forgotten used, since they were part of that group of surviving species, came from the Mists serving the Six, and guided many other species in the aftermath of the Elder Dragons. If so, then it could be (evolved from) a language of the human/Forgotten homeworld.

    I like this theory, it does make sense. It would explain how easily humans could survive in a new world when they could communicate with a race that they would be familiar with.

    Unfortunately, ANet doesn't go in depth into common everyday cultural things, especially for boring humans, and we don't have any real explanation for why everyone speaks this language beyond the obvious design reasons.

    there is a lot of inconsistencies in the lore, especially if you look at GW1 and GW2 together. And a good portion of the lore is hidden so you really have to hunt for it. Or hidden by class/race requirements depending on what you're looking for. I like it because it gives us room to speculate while alloying us to pick and choose what theories are true. But it is also annoying that there is no definitive answer about certain things that should. Or the answer is so well hidden that only the most devoted of lore seekers would find them. And as much as I love GW2 I don't have the time or patience to do everything with a character of every race/class. which is why I'm starting to post theories in the forums. Each interaction gives me more information or ideas to work with.

  • 2 things about this theory:

    1.im pretty sure guild wars 1 flame legion spoke in common.
    2.thats not how hearing works, if it's a frequency that's too high or low for you, you'll just hear it less and less until you dont hear it at all.

    That being said I kinda love this theory.

  • Dustfinger.9510Dustfinger.9510 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2020

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    2.thats not how hearing works, if it's a frequency that's too high or low for you, you'll just hear it less and less until you dont hear it at all.

    One way it would work is if individual words transitioned from high to low frequencies and vice-versa. Then, those with only partial ability to hear the word would hear bits and portions. This could produce a guttural growling, grunting effect as syllables fade in and out in quick succession when applied to the Charrs already rough voices. Some syllables wouldn't be audible at all. In effect, it becomes a natural crypography.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 31, 2020

    I always figured that the "common" language evolved -- or an existing "Tyrian" language was adopted as y'all have discussed -- as a lingua franca to facilitate communications, trade and other relations between the various races. Lingua franca usage (and the replacement of native languages by lingua franca) is common in real world history, so the existence of a common language in the game doesn't bother me.

    What DOES bother me is the near-total absence of the racial languages, except for a few words here and there. The absence is so striking that it really demands some kind of explanation beyond simple language replacement.

    "Bookah" and "Poobah" are the only Asuran words I can recall hearing in game. Like their history, the Asura apparently left most of their language underground as well. The written form of Asuran is definitely still in existence, but the spoken form is seemingly almost gone. Perhaps like Japanese, which uses Chinese written characters but with its own spoken form, the Asurans are still using their old written alphabet but with the newer common language.

    Flint in Elon Riverlands calls the scammers at First Camp "human nara-dools " -- apparently an insult in Charr language. The usage as an object and appending of "human" implies nara-dool being a noun and not racially specific. So far as I know, this is the ONLY instance of a uniquely Charr word used in game. Doubly interesting is the casual usage by a cub -- implying that some degree of Charr language not only survives in everyday use, but may even still be actively taught.

    The Norn language, whatever it is/was, is apparent only in the names of places and people. I haven't heard a single specifically "Nornish" word in game that I can recall. Side thought: if the Norn are supposed to be Nordic inspired, shouldn't they all sound like they're from Minnesota? ;)

    The Sylvari apparently have never had their own language, which isn't surprising given the recency and character of their origins.

  • Fjaeldmark.9043Fjaeldmark.9043 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Flint in Elon Riverlands calls the scammers at First Camp "human nara-dools " -- apparently an insult in Charr language. The usage as an object and appending of "human" implies nara-dool being a noun and not racially specific. So far as I know, this is the ONLY instance of a uniquely Charr word used in game. Doubly interesting is the casual usage by a cub -- implying that some degree of Charr language not only survives in everyday use, but may even still be actively taught.

    This might just be a child's mishearing of "ne'er-do-wells".

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If that's the case, then the spoken Charr language is entirely absent from GW2 so far as I know.

  • @Jimbru.6014 said:
    If that's the case, then the spoken Charr language is entirely absent from GW2 so far as I know.

    unfortunately yeah, we only get charr expletives like "burn me", "blood of the khan-ur" or calling people mice. but that's the extent we get, nothing that even hints at the charr's language.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    If that's the case, then the spoken Charr language is entirely absent from GW2 so far as I know.

    Hrangmer and fahrar/crèche are the only examples of a charr language we have, sadly.

    We do have a slowly-growing pictogram list though.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.