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Please make Sunless weapons obtainable

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  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    @casualkenny.9817 said:
    Rng is a turn-on for some, and a major turn-off for others. Rng in gw2 is very, very skewed.

    Anet has responded to feedback in the past (statuettes, scion achv, others), and hopefully they would consider it in this instance too.

    Hopefully, considering it has been about 7 years now, and this is a situation that gets more ridiculous the more people haven't gotten it after hundreds of runs.

  • Obfuscate.6430Obfuscate.6430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    RNG for a one-off item I can understand. I've been playing since beta and I only got my first precursor drop last year. It felt worth it.
    But for a weapon set where you only get 1 out of the set and there's a chance you won't get a single one in years?
    I really agree with OP in that we should be able to earn a skin somehow. Honestly. I don't think it's an entitled request. It is smart to create new relevance to older content imo.

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    Why the hell isn't it the case after 7 years now?

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2020

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:

    I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.

    people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:

    I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.

    people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

    They should put that on the cover as a slogan "After 5 years you'll get that item you want!"

  • Tumult.2578Tumult.2578 Member ✭✭

    Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

  • Tumult.2578Tumult.2578 Member ✭✭

    I have had success with spending more time killing the fingers and krait adds as opposed to pounding Teq constantly. Might just be luck though.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    took me about 2 months of killing Teq every day to get a single drop. Back then of course you had to do the mystic forge conversion. Not sure if thats still the case now though.

    This was also before HoT i was killing for the GS in preparation for reaper. Ive used the GS ever since then basically.
    As far as the drop rate goes I think maybe the best way would have been awarding at least one Teq Chest after completing all of his related world boss achievements which will take most people several Teq runs. Promising 1 weapon at the end of that i dont think would be unfair.

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    WHY hasn't this been reworked yet? People have complained for 6+ years about it now. WHY?

  • Zaxares.5419Zaxares.5419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    No item that is account bound should be rng only. That is just stupid by design. It is literally possible to kill teq every day the rest of your life and not get this drop.

    Completely agree. If an item is BoA, it should then be earnable via tokens or an achievement/reward track. If it is only through RNG, then it should be tradable. Items should NEVER be BoA AND RNG, especially in a game like GW2 where, like it or not, Fashion Wars pretty much is the ultimate endgame. The OP's proposal should be extended to the Scion weapons from Dragonfall and the Broken Voice weapons from Drakkar too.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:
    WHY hasn't this been reworked yet? People have complained for 6+ years about it now. WHY?

    People complain about just about everything. That doesn’t mean that what they’re complaining about should ever get resolved.

  • Sylum.1806Sylum.1806 Member ✭✭

    @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    The stats on sunless May be perfect for necros as you deem, however, the skin is just that: a skin.

    The stats, which make the weapons ‘perfect for necros’ can be obtained in many other ways.

    There is no problem allowing skins to be obtainable by RNG.

    He never said anything about stats. This is purely a skin issue. And yes, it does take years to get a fair amount of the weapons. I've done Tequatl on a daily basis for about 3 years, round and about, and have 6 Sunless skins in total. That's 2 per year on average. Considering there are 19 skins, it'll take about 9 to 10 years to get them all.

    I understand his frustration. But I agree there's nothing wrong with having skins that are only obtainable through rare RNG drops. It just sucks for OP that it just so happens to be a skin set he wants. I have the same issue now with Scion weapons. But I'm not advocating for a more guaranteed way to obtain them. Some things should require patience and dedication. This is an MMO, after all.

    If you think 9-10 years is considered a fair and reasonable measure of "patience and dedication", then you've pretty much lost all but the most hardcore crowd which I'm fairly certain ArenaNet didn't intend for completing this collection to be much harder than crafting a dozen legendaries.

  • Sylum.1806Sylum.1806 Member ✭✭
    edited June 3, 2020

    @Friday.7864 said:

    @Clyan.1593 said:
    People love to oppose things. It's fun. Especially when there is clearly nothing to get from it.
    It's also called white knighting, something people do so they can feel important because their stance lines up with what the people in charge supposedly want.
    The best of the best then say stuff like: WeLl, I dOnT cARe, sO I aM aGaInST iT, yOu sEe?
    In reality they just want things to stay difficult for others.
    I remember when the wardrobe was added how some people got stinky because some skins were brought back to the game - like that S1 tentacle backpiece for example.
    It's just people being kitten.

    That is so true! o:
    It's really off putting and makes the forum appear toxic and unwelcoming when old players turn practically hostile towards often sensible suggestions.
    They did it the hard way so it has to stay like that for anyone attempting to do the same - even if they have years of catching up to do.
    Best example was the shatterer achievement - someone kept shooting down the opener for suggesting very reasonable changes, kept calling the event easy and posting on and on against any changes... Told them to go show the opener how to do it since it's easy... Suddenly they stopped posting. Quite sad tbh

    On topic: The skins should be purchasable, the actual ascended can stay a drop imo.

    I've been playing since launch and I agree that the RNG has become a problem for rewards that can still function as very effective retention incentives without the RNG, and still preserve their prestige.

    Sunless, Scion, and Broken Voice weapons should NEVER have been ascended from the start. The appeal is the skins themselves. Most egregious is Tequatl which still regularly drops one non-Sunless Ascended Weapon Box every other spawn for a lucky participant in the zerg.

    I want to make it clear that I'm not advocating for less RNG because I got the short end of the stick. My account for some reason after nearly 10,000 hours in the game has ZERO precursor drops but extraordinarily insane luck with Ascendeds. I've had Ascended Armor Boxes drop for me in 2 successive days of Triple Trouble two times in my GW2 career, gotten nearly two dozen ascended boxes from Tequatl, not to mention from reward track chests in PvP AND WvW. Other than crafting 3 weapons early on when Ascended was introduced and crafting 3 armor sets for achievement, every other Ascended equipped on my fully ascended 9 characters (some even have two template sets) came from drops. They drop so frequently for me, I've yet to touch my 98 Grandmaster Marks.

    Despite my veteran status and luck with Ascendeds (I'm 5 or 6 Hoards away from completing the Sunless collection) , I would still advocate for non-RNG acquisition for such skins because there's just no justifying 9-10 years of trying to complete a collection in the name of player retention and engagement.

    It's like ArenaNet keeps churning their GDs with no clear direction what to do when it comes to rewards. What they did with Pact Machetes was perfect. Earn them doing Dragon Stand events or buy them with currencies earned from other HoT Maps. Yet when it comes to Mistborn Keys, they couldn't implement the same. I know enjoyability is subjective, but Dragonfall feels less fun than Dragonstand. With only one skin guaranteed for the first 1000 coffers opened instead of this being a repeatable achievement, I'm not about to break my soul farming Dragonfall ad nauseum for the hope of completing the Scion collection. The 1000 coffers for Scion weapons thing needs to be repeatable and Mistborn Keys need to be sold by merchants for all S4 map currencies the way Pact Machetes are sold.

  • Sylum.1806Sylum.1806 Member ✭✭

    @Tumult.2578 said:
    Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

    This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

    Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

  • Sylum.1806Sylum.1806 Member ✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    No item that is account bound should be rng only. That is just stupid by design. It is literally possible to kill teq every day the rest of your life and not get this drop.

    This is where the discussion should have ended. Collection rewards and one-time-only drops are fine as account rewards. Everything else that has a rare/rng drop rate should be tradeable.

    Unfortunately ANet does this even with BL chests now. I had just today a guild member raging about the stupid rng behind a skin that is BL chest drop rng + account bound. This is even worse, as it might be deemed a predatory business practice.

    In the case of sunless weapons there isn't even a financial reason to keep it that hard.

    Geezus, that Vermilion Tail Feather... Predatory is an apt description.

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylum.1806 said:

    @Tumult.2578 said:
    Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

    This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

    Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

    I'm pretty sure almost anyone against any kind of change on this has already gotten a hoard.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:

    @Sylum.1806 said:

    @Tumult.2578 said:
    Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

    This is the equivalent of "I was born to a billionaire. I can't agree with change that doesn't diminish my current privilege except help those in poverty."

    Buddy. You do realize that if they implement a non-RNG redemption option without removing the RNG drops, you don't have to partake in the redemption if you don't want to right?

    I'm pretty sure almost anyone against any kind of change on this has already gotten a hoard.

    Im not against it and I got 6 hoards.

  • Tumult.2578Tumult.2578 Member ✭✭

    How is Teq’s Horde different than the Badge of Honor? What you’re seeing in posts from long term players is the long term exposure to the Developers actions. It doesn’t take long to come upon something you can’t get unless you do game content you don’t necessarily enjoy. We become accustomed to do “whatever it takes”. It’s one of the costs of having a ton of content and a need to keep a variety of players active in each area. Teq is like every other event with an achievement and rewards. The better rewards should be harder to get. I usually see an exotic, a few rares, and a bunch of salvage. Still, that’s as good as any other event in core Tyria. We have become accustomed to these methods, not against change. To get the long term players you need to get those basic requirements changed for everything, not just the one thing you want.

  • Vrath.1754Vrath.1754 Member ✭✭✭

    Idk I'm not opposed to it and if the Devs instituted a 250 spoons per skin turn in or something like that I wouldn't really care. But I also understand those that are opposed.
    There is nothing wrong with having some rare rng skins how many are there actually?

    For the most part I enjoy doing Teq, most of the time, when I dont I take some time off from hitting the boss daily unless I'm on the area. I think I've got 65ish spoons in my bank. I figured some time back if I remember I'd collect them till I hit my next hoard or ascended weapon or something like that.

  • casualkenny.9817casualkenny.9817 Member ✭✭✭

    I have approx 2+3+4 hoards. I'm personally not a fan of the skins. I am in support.

    I am always in support of a tandem of rng+consistent rewards when a pseudo-rng system is bad. I believe that is the best way to cater to the 2 major categories of ppl in how they enjoy being rewarded ('thrill' vs 'work=consistentreward')

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    This thread is not about the difficulty, it's about the obtainability. In some cases it's IMPOSSIBLE to obtain. That is not difficult, that is unobtainable.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unobtainable IS NOT OKAY!

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've actually stopped playing this event to stop feeling the inevitable dissapointment. It's been YEARS of trying with no alternatives for acquiring it. No more!

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah. Nothing in the game should take YEARS, nevermind taking YEARS with nothing to show for it.

    No progress, whatsoever.

    It's one of the worst parts of the entire game. This should NOT be RNG based. Make the Sunless weapons Exotic, and either change to a token system or make them tradeable on the marketplace.

  • gotta farm them pixels for your pretend characters

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ullahhallu.8762 said:
    gotta farm them pixels for your pretend characters

    If only it were only a matter of farming...

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:

    If only it were only a matter of farming...

    Why are some people making it out like a token system or making them exotic is ANet "gifting" people the skins? You'll STILL have to work for it, you'll STILL have to grind your kitten off 100+ times, the only difference is that instead of wasting your time, you are certain to progress every time.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:

    If only it were only a matter of farming...

    Why are some people making it out like a token system or making them exotic is ANet "gifting" people the skins? You'll STILL have to work for it, you'll STILL have to grind your kitten off 100+ times, the only difference is that instead of wasting your time, you are certain to progress every time.

    A token system let's you work towards your goal and eventually get it.
    If nothing but RNG is involved, you might get it after 100 times, or maybe after 1000 times.
    But more importantly to this discussion with the only RNG being involved you might never get it at all.

    Therefore, a token system contains the idea of no longer being just victim of disgustingly abysmal RNG.
    That said, Arenanet has proven time and time again how much they love their abysmal RNG, so I doubt this will happen.

  • WolfOwl.3968WolfOwl.3968 Member ✭✭

    @Tumult.2578 said:
    Having looted Teq's Horde 2 days in a row, and having several taking up bank space, I can't agree with a change.

    You're opposed to a change due to being incredibly lucky?

    There is some weird flex going on in this thread. "I have several so it's fine."

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have yet to see an actual good arguement against changing the RNG only aspect of these skins... Still not playing the content. To burnt out to continue without some kind of long term gaurantee. 5 years or whatever time has passed since teq was changed is too long to still have no teq skins! I wasted waaaaay too much time trying to get these skins.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Dragon Priestess.9760Dragon Priestess.9760 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    I don't see why Sunless is so popular, it's just a recolour.

    Resident Weeb and Woman of Culture

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Tumult.2578 said:
    The better rewards should be harder to get.

    They are not "harder" to get. RNG does not equal difficulty. Someone might get 16 teq weapons in 16 consecutive Teq runs. Another person might get zero Hordes doing teq every day, day after day, for 5 years straight. Which one had it harder, which one had it easier?

    We have become accustomed to these methods, not against change.

    More like we lost any hope that something might change for the better. We didn't "get accustomed" to it - we simply gave up.

    To get the long term players you need to get those basic requirements changed for everything, not just the one thing you want.

    Indeed, Teq is not unique in this, there's more stuff like that which could benefit from a change.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They are not "harder" to get. RNG does not equal difficulty. Someone might get 16 teq weapons in 16 consecutive Teq runs. Another person might get zero Hordes doing teq every day, day after day, for 5 years straight. Which one had it harder, which one had it easier?

    You forget that it gets harder to get motivated each day after years on end with no end in sight.
    So the one without a hoard, thus the one without the feeling of having been rewarded, definitely had the harder run.

    It even shows in how that person plays the game.
    Less motivation often equals less effectiveness in the game, therefore making the game subjectively harder.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:

    I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.

    people have 5+ sunless skins who do teq. They do it each day from start. You kill it only 200? It is small value. You a only on start position. After 5 years if you do teq each day you will get it. So relax and play.

    I actually need 3 more to get lol, spear longbow and focus

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They are not "harder" to get. RNG does not equal difficulty. Someone might get 16 teq weapons in 16 consecutive Teq runs. Another person might get zero Hordes doing teq every day, day after day, for 5 years straight. Which one had it harder, which one had it easier?

    You forget that it gets harder to get motivated each day after years on end with no end in sight.
    So the one without a hoard, thus the one without the feeling of having been rewarded, definitely had the harder run.

    It even shows in how that person plays the game.
    Less motivation often equals less effectiveness in the game, therefore making the game subjectively harder.

    Exactly. In this example the one that had it harder wasn't rewarded, while the one that had it easy was. As i said, when RNG is involved, rewards end up no longer directly associated with difficulty. The main factor is luck, not effort.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • WolfOwl.3968WolfOwl.3968 Member ✭✭

    The thing for me is the suggestion that you earn currency toward getting the skins or what have you doesn't fly in the face of the accepted philosophy of the game. Look at dungeons, they've had a system in place since launch where players could feel like they're always progressing toward their personal goals rather than waiting on some stroke of blind RNG luck to get what they want.

  • SevlisBavles.3059SevlisBavles.3059 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I don't see why Sunless is so popular, it's just a recolour.

    And your point is?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I don't see why Sunless is so popular, it's just a recolour.

    So you havent seen the black smoke thats unique to those?

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Speaking of, please bring back Boss Week so I can get Wings of the Sunless.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Teq needs entire maps of players so this can't happen.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Teq needs entire maps of players so this can't happen.

    I don't think it takes too much effort to simply put an NPC into the nearby Asura lab that trades one weapon chest for a specific number of spoons (or another token that'd be added to the loot).

  • Roche.7491Roche.7491 Member ✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:
    Spoons as a trade-in currency, Spoons + Sunless runes as a trade-in currency, 250 of them, 500 of them, I don't care.

    I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.

    Sunless skins are perfect for Necros and for some are pretty much the ONLY choice. Don't lock them behind stupid RNG. It's been years now, please change it.

    Topic Creator the weapon chest is now obtainable through dragon bash. It’s quite expensive as you will need to open about 100 gold worth of dragon coffers to get one. You might also get a gift of aurene during the process.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Coffer

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wish I can sell mine to OP, have 4 just sitting in bag unused, already have all skins unlocked; only took bout 4 years of 12min per day almost every day of the year

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Roche.7491 said:

    @SevlisBavles.3059 said:
    Spoons as a trade-in currency, Spoons + Sunless runes as a trade-in currency, 250 of them, 500 of them, I don't care.

    I'd rather kill Tequatl 200 times knowing I'll get it in the end than doing him 100+ times and getting absolutely nothing.

    Sunless skins are perfect for Necros and for some are pretty much the ONLY choice. Don't lock them behind stupid RNG. It's been years now, please change it.

    Topic Creator the weapon chest is now obtainable through dragon bash. It’s quite expensive as you will need to open about 100 gold worth of dragon coffers to get one. You might also get a gift of aurene during the process.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Coffer

    "Might" being the crucial word here. It's also RNG based.

    Edit: found it:
    https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/hf2k05/10000_dragon_coffer_2020/
    10k dragon coffers. 0 tequatl hoards, 0 gifts of aurene.

    Also, mentioned in the same reddit thread:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon_Coffer/drop_rate/2019
    ~95k dragon coffers, 1 hoard, 1 gift

    ...100 gold worth of coffers for a Hoard? I don't think so.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I appreciate that there is another way to acquire them I still have to completely depend on luck which is the real problem. This item is account bound and should not have a completely rng acquisition method. Remove the binding or provide a way to earn it. Do the same with any item that is rng only and account bound. There is no reason for this situation to exist.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me