Why do we keep falling for ANET's bait and switch? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why do we keep falling for ANET's bait and switch?

Drennon.7190Drennon.7190 Member ✭✭✭

How many times over the past 8 years has it been the same song and dance.
-"Listen up fans! Huge focus on PvP and WvW coming! We're going to do more frequent updates! Communication is going to improve! Amazing changes inbound."
Then what? Remote silence. Drip fed updates with no explanation of buffs, nerfs, what's coming, or their reasoning.

I'm sure someone is going to blame it on COVID, but that doesn't cut it. You don't need to be at an office to log on to the forums and say "hey, things aren't going as planned due to the pandemic, but we're still here."

The only redeeming quality that I can see is how easy it is to PvP vs other MMOs. I don't have to PvE to gear up and I can instantly join on a fresh character with any build. The struggle I have is asking my self, is it worth it?

Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

<1

Comments

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Pvp has been in a "take it or leave it" situation for most of its lifetime. If playing causes more frustration than fun, then move on to something else.

    U ain't lying.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at the end lf the day it's still the best pvp in a MMO, i could play moba bit then i will play 2 matches/hour in the best case scenario and the game overall fits in my adult life schedule, so I'll keep playing it till there's something better

  • Drennon.7190Drennon.7190 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    anticipation is half the experience
    admit it, you like being teased

    8 years of teasing. Well, tbh I think core GW2 PvP felt so much better than everything after HoTs release.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2020

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:
    Other companies are doing fine with regular 2week-1month balance patches as they did before all this muh corona. Its truly not an excuse. Same lies as always, after 8yrs ppl should learn their lessons by now but some are still naive it seems hanging out on the hope that things will change. If you are playing this game for anything other than pve you are doing something wrong.

    +1 Helpful

    Refusal To Learn- Allowing yourself to Hope, Believe, Trust

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 21, 2020

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:
    I would be really interessted what the problem is.

    its a combo deal probably, and much of the same stuff. there are some core philosophies that are bad (such as the view point that there should be only one game mode, thankfully somewhat changing, and no sense of urgency for fixing broke things), understanding of class dynamics and balance is bad (again, changing and getting a better), and this limited scope of 1 up 1 down balancing. the last one is not really talked about but I think it has a lot to do with how chaotic and uneven that game has gotten over the years. instead of this 1 up 1 down policy I think it would be better to do your best to get classes within an acceptable margin of each other and then change mechanics every once and a while (within acceptable ranges).

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:
    I would be really interessted what the problem is.

    its a combo deal probably, and much of the same stuff. there are some core philosophies that are bad (such as the view point that there should be only one game mode, thankfully somewhat changing, and no sense of urgency for fixing broke things), understanding of class dynamics and balance is bad (again, changing and getting a better), and this limited scope of 1 up 1 down balancing. the last one is not really talked about but I think it has a lot to do with how chaotic and uneven that game has gotten over the years. instead of this 1 up 1 down policy I think it would be better to do your best to get classes within an acceptable margin of each other and then change mechanics every once and a while (within acceptable ranges).

    This^

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest and this is just a random thought but for all we know the pandemic could have effected ncsoft and its investors revenues and I'm sure gw2 at this point isn't a must save project for them. Not doomsdaying here or not trying to just in reality such things can happen.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    To be honest and this is just a random thought but for all we know the pandemic could have effected ncsoft and its investors revenues and I'm sure gw2 at this point isn't a must save project for them. Not doomsdaying here or not trying to just in reality such things can happen.

    Maybe. But looking at what's going on in the game right now, I'd be surprised if GW2 didn't have one of the best quarters they've had in years. The expansion maps are currently packed with new/returning players.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    White knights showing up ^^^ enjoy the game :)

    Yeah everyone is good at the game and the devs are all at fault for not doing anything to balance their game around those really good players. Shesh, I must be the only scrub here.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2020

    @Drennon.7190 said:
    How many times over the past 8 years has it been the same song and dance.
    -"Listen up fans! Huge focus on PvP and WvW coming! We're going to do more frequent updates! Communication is going to improve! Amazing changes inbound."
    Then what? Remote silence. Drip fed updates with no explanation of buffs, nerfs, what's coming, or their reasoning.

    I'm sure someone is going to blame it on COVID, but that doesn't cut it. You don't need to be at an office to log on to the forums and say "hey, things aren't going as planned due to the pandemic, but we're still here."

    The only redeeming quality that I can see is how easy it is to PvP vs other MMOs. I don't have to PvE to gear up and I can instantly join on a fresh character with any build. The struggle I have is asking my self, is it worth it?

    Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

    GW2 is the only MMO with serviceable PvP that at least has some dev support. It's the reason I keep coming back. When a better multiplayer ARPG comes out, I'll be there. But right now when you look at other MMOs, GW2 looks pretty kitten good.

    I thought Battlerite was better in every way, but it's dead unfortunately. Look at Crucible that just came out - complete trashfire.

    Give me a better game, and I'll be there.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2020

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @Drennon.7190 said:
    How many times over the past 8 years has it been the same song and dance.
    -"Listen up fans! Huge focus on PvP and WvW coming! We're going to do more frequent updates! Communication is going to improve! Amazing changes inbound."
    Then what? Remote silence. Drip fed updates with no explanation of buffs, nerfs, what's coming, or their reasoning.

    I'm sure someone is going to blame it on COVID, but that doesn't cut it. You don't need to be at an office to log on to the forums and say "hey, things aren't going as planned due to the pandemic, but we're still here."

    The only redeeming quality that I can see is how easy it is to PvP vs other MMOs. I don't have to PvE to gear up and I can instantly join on a fresh character with any build. The struggle I have is asking my self, is it worth it?

    Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

    GW2 is the only MMO with serviceable PvP that at least has some dev support. It's the reason I keep coming back. When a better multiplayer ARPG comes out, I'll be there. But right now when you look at other MMOs, GW2 looks pretty kitten good.

    I thought Battlerite was better in every way, but it's dead unfortunately. Look at Crucible that just came out - complete trashfire.

    Give me a better game, and I'll be there.

    Lmao gw2 is literally thee most trash pvp game there is, u are confusing great pvp potential due to combat mechanics with actually good pvp. Though that's easy to do. There far better mmo to play for a better overall experience,few have the pvp potential gw2 has but gw2 doesnt even scratch that potential due to pure lazyness and lack of any REAL support. Support in game modes and fixes are so bad in this game its players form a type of Stockholm syndrome where they complain but when they get scraps they praise anet like gods lmao. The pvp is so bad players get used to the mechanics and have a hard time going to other mmo pvp iterations but instead stay and end up being completely toxic hence all the toxicity in pvp. Gw2 could have been the best pvp experience but it is far from it, have good combat mechanics lending to a potential for great pvp means very little when that fast fluid combat through the years gets dumbed down into literal brainless aoe condi spamming clown fiesta of carry builds that destroy any builds built out of creativity. Yeah theres other mmos which far worse combat mechanics but at least the pvp in it doesnt make u want to delete the game after every third match, gw2 is the king in that regard at least judging from threads/posts on the forums reddit, yes all games/forums suffer from this but the degree gw2 does is significantly honestly higher and it's easy to see that. the skill designers and balance team if I were ncsoft would be gone and names blacklisted, after this many years its absolutely incredible this games survived but in a few pvp matches u can tell the players that left are loving thier time spent lmao. Honestly ncsoft even with lay offs have been very generous with anet. The pve oh the pve is meme worthy on top lol. This mmo is thee meme mmo around mmo circles for a reason.
    BUT as a casual budget mmo u cant deny its decent at any rate just as long as u know what to expect.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Starbreaker.6507 said:
    As someone said over the weekend in Chaithh's twitch - the fact there was an mAT going on and the official GW2 channel was playing soundtrack music speaks volumes on what they think about PvP

    True, I'm just surprised after all these yrs when its pvp that sets it apart from other mmos, even tho the pve gets more population which again is surprising cuz it's one of the worst mmo stories/pve content I've played in a mmo ud think they'd focus on the aspect that sets their game apart from others in the genre,if done right the pvp population coulda been much larger and gw2 thee pvp mmo to play. Again it's all subjective but I'm surprised at the games pve population and not surprised at the pvp population lol

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    at least the pandemic gives them an excuse.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2020

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    And the years before the pandemic? What excuse u gonna throw off em after the pandemic?

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @Drennon.7190 said:
    How many times over the past 8 years has it been the same song and dance.
    -"Listen up fans! Huge focus on PvP and WvW coming! We're going to do more frequent updates! Communication is going to improve! Amazing changes inbound."
    Then what? Remote silence. Drip fed updates with no explanation of buffs, nerfs, what's coming, or their reasoning.

    I'm sure someone is going to blame it on COVID, but that doesn't cut it. You don't need to be at an office to log on to the forums and say "hey, things aren't going as planned due to the pandemic, but we're still here."

    The only redeeming quality that I can see is how easy it is to PvP vs other MMOs. I don't have to PvE to gear up and I can instantly join on a fresh character with any build. The struggle I have is asking my self, is it worth it?

    Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

    GW2 is the only MMO with serviceable PvP that at least has some dev support. It's the reason I keep coming back. When a better multiplayer ARPG comes out, I'll be there. But right now when you look at other MMOs, GW2 looks pretty kitten good.

    I thought Battlerite was better in every way, but it's dead unfortunately. Look at Crucible that just came out - complete trashfire.

    Give me a better game, and I'll be there.

    Lmao gw2 is literally thee most trash pvp game there is, u are confusing great pvp potential due to combat mechanics with actually good pvp. Though that's easy to do. There far better mmo to play for a better overall experience,few have the pvp potential gw2 has but gw2 doesnt even scratch that potential due to pure lazyness and lack of any REAL support. Support in game modes and fixes are so bad in this game its players form a type of Stockholm syndrome where they complain but when they get scraps they praise anet like gods lmao. The pvp is so bad players get used to the mechanics and have a hard time going to other mmo pvp iterations but instead stay and end up being completely toxic hence all the toxicity in pvp. Gw2 could have been the best pvp experience but it is far from it, have good combat mechanics lending to a potential for great pvp means very little when that fast fluid combat through the years gets dumbed down into literal brainless aoe condi spamming clown fiesta of carry builds that destroy any builds built out of creativity. Yeah theres other mmos which far worse combat mechanics but at least the pvp in it doesnt make u want to delete the game after every third match, gw2 is the king in that regard at least judging from threads/posts on the forums reddit, yes all games/forums suffer from this but the degree gw2 does is significantly honestly higher and it's easy to see that. the skill designers and balance team if I were ncsoft would be gone and names blacklisted, after this many years its absolutely incredible this games survived but in a few pvp matches u can tell the players that left are loving thier time spent lmao. Honestly ncsoft even with lay offs have been very generous with anet. The pve oh the pve is meme worthy on top lol. This mmo is thee meme mmo around mmo circles for a reason.
    BUT as a casual budget mmo u cant deny its decent at any rate just as long as u know what to expect.

    so you don't like toxicity in a PvP game?

  • cek.5478cek.5478 Member
    edited May 25, 2020

    Pvp is not a source for $ u know. Anet never focused to pvp or wvw. Aspecially pvp has very few players and most of them playing it only for dailies or achis. GW2 community is kind of ultra casual untalented players. They likes playing easy things, stories and fashion. And Anet did a huge mistake about marging pvp wvw and pve things. like armor, traits, weapons, sigils. So, this is it. Could be bad but never gonna be better.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yeah...I do.

    It's called being realistic.

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Honestly, chiming in, I really don’t understand why people look back at e-sports days and consider these days like the best. At that time, there was no rework of core trait line, no meaningful balance patches except some minor increase and decrease of cooldowns, no split balance between PvP, WvW and PvE (so good luck getting some meaningful updates), no other game modes except conquest, not much incentive to get some exclusive rewards, no ingame league systems, no legendary rewards and quite a very boring meta let me say imo.

    You think PvP is bad right now because there is only a skeleton crew, let me say that before, there was no skeleton to begin with, hence why e-sports incentives failed before. It might have felt more popular before only because the game was relatively new honestly.

    After all this, let me say that they seem to care more now than ever before.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    I mean the amount of posts on the past I saw people asking for more frequent small patches targeting specific overperforming things instead of leaving them for months was huge. But now we are getting them it's a problem?

  • TeqkOneStylez.8047TeqkOneStylez.8047 Member ✭✭✭

    Guild Wars2 would need it's own PVP focused game if we were gonna see any significant changes for the better that actual competitive gamers can respect.

    The only reason I began playing this game is because you don't have to waste your life killing rabbits before you can PVP.

    If only more mmorpg's with good combat did this.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guild Wars2 have nice PVP. Don't like ? Change class/biuld. Try tournaments. Or take a break.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yeah...I do.

    It's called being realistic.

    they did so in the past as well (actually faster), now we have class stacking 3x in monthly and it hasn't even been hotfixed in 3 months yet

    it's now been 3 months and a day since last patch and nothing in sights, so sure seems a lot less updates than in the past, in contrary to what they said they would
    the game is more unbalanced since ever, ofc we prefer some updates soon rather than later

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The last patch happened on April 28th :

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103747/game-update-notes-april-28-2020#latest

    That was less than a month ago.

    While that patch wasn't huge, it was at least partially targeted at PvP. It's clear that the game mode is being updated. Claims to the contrary are false.

    Whether the patches we see are fast enough or large enough are two different questions.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Oh hohoho!...I just can't with this community...

    How much selfishness do you people on these forums even have? I'm soooo sorry that you people can't go on for one day without complaining that your precious build isn't as effective as you would like. Have some kitten patience! No no no...don't do this "muh corona" BS. It's called a pandemic. Have some kitten respect for people who got laid off from this or has loved ones to consider. Updates are going to take a while, no matter what happens.

    Imagine thinking the pandemic has anything to do with this when their update rhythm now is the same as it was for years, and other developers are doing just fine with the pandemic.
    The developers just don't care about PvP. They gave it a shot back when we had eSports, it didn't work out, so they gave up on it and keep only a skeleton crew around for it.

    Oh is it?

    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    I mean the amount of posts on the past I saw people asking for more frequent small patches targeting specific overperforming things instead of leaving them for months was huge. But now we are getting them it's a problem?

    Enjoy the patch, I'm sure ull feel the difference over the next while till the next one seeing as it was as significant as it was especially being it shoulda been part of the patch rolled out two patches back.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yeah...I do.

    It's called being realistic.

    I’m curious, you keep telling players to be realistic and that the pandemic has thrown a wrench into things. So be patient and understanding to those affected by it.

    But these guys, CMC, Irenio and whoever else is on the team, still have a job. And I guarantee they make more than most of the general public does. Shouldn’t they be thankful and busting their kitten while they still have a job? There are millions currently jobless who would love to be in their shoes.

    Do you honestly believe that throwing in 7 minor number adjustments is worth of 1 month of work? Keep in mind unless things have changed CMC isn’t even the one changing the numbers, they have a separate “balance” team that makes those changes. He would just be pushing along what to change.

    Most people I know bust their kitten day and night just to keep their job and yet we go weeks and months with very small changes and people like you pipe up and say, “It’s okay, [insert excuse here]...”.

    I’d be curious what you do for a living because I don’t know any place that allows such a slow cadence of “work”. And unless this is a side side side gig for the PvP Dev’s (Hint PvP - it shouldn’t be), I cant fathom how they are okay with their output.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yeah...I do.

    It's called being realistic.

    I’m curious, you keep telling players to be realistic and that the pandemic has thrown a wrench into things. So be patient and understanding to those affected by it.

    But these guys, CMC, Irenio and whoever else is on the team, still have a job. And I guarantee they make more than most of the general public does. Shouldn’t they be thankful and busting their kitten while they still have a job? There are millions currently jobless who would love to be in their shoes.

    Do you honestly believe that throwing in 7 minor number adjustments is worth of 1 month of work? Keep in mind unless things have changed CMC isn’t even the one changing the numbers, they have a separate “balance” team that makes those changes. He would just be pushing along what to change.

    Most people I know bust their kitten day and night just to keep their job and yet we go weeks and months with very small changes and people like you pipe up and say, “It’s okay, [insert excuse here]...”.

    I’d be curious what you do for a living because I don’t know any place that allows such a slow cadence of “work”. And unless this is a side side side gig for the PvP Dev’s (Hint PvP - it shouldn’t be), I cant fathom how they are okay with their output.

    I'm pretty sure this is a side gig for cmc and the team, there's no way one or more people have been focusing on balance as their main job, look at the recent "large" balance pass, its was a blanket power lv drop that consisted of very little if any individual consideration between the classes. It was literally the easiest patch a dev team could drop and the changes over the many months since were very small in numbers and focused on few specs each time in a manner that could have just been one patch, even if the changes were combined it wouldn't have been considered a very big patch. Honestly I think their main focus is expac and other future ventures as was before. They painted a positive picture to keep the revenue coming as best they could after lay offs but I think its players are in for some future disappoints.
    Gw franchise needs a whole new management and sufficient Capitol to reinvigorate itself from the ground up to be as successful as the now big mmos who it's clear have much larger backing and resources. At least gw3 wouldnt be built on spaghetti code anymore lol.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I'm pretty sure this is a side gig for cmc and the team, there's no way one or more people have been focusing on balance as their main job, look at the recent "large" balance pass, its was a blanket power lv drop that consisted of very little if any individual consideration between the classes. It was literally the easiest patch a dev team could drop and the changes over the many months since were very small in numbers and focused on few specs each time in a manner that could have just been one patch, even if the changes were combined it wouldn't have been considered a very big patch. Honestly I think their main focus is expac and other future ventures as was before. They painted a positive picture to keep the revenue coming as best they could after lay offs but I think its players are in for some future disappoints.
    Gw franchise needs a whole new management and sufficient Capitol to reinvigorate itself from the ground up to be as successful as the now big mmos who it's clear have much larger backing and resources. At least gw3 wouldnt be built on spaghetti code anymore lol.

    Unfortunately, that’s probably exactly how it is. I’m not even sure they have have a game director right now. Pretty sure Mike Z was fired.

    I don’t see anything changing. They keep slapping tape over a leaking pipe but eventually it’s going to burst. Their keep quiet, take people off the main team and push them towards the expansion / other projects mentality is the exact thing that led to the layoffs in the first place.

    From my perspective they never learn from their mistakes and then kitten hits the fan and they go, “oh no how did this happen!?”. It’s a shame really because the game does some things really well but it gets bogged down by the rampant issues that never get addressed.

    In the end we (the customers) will leave for a business that better suits our needs.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I'm pretty sure this is a side gig for cmc and the team, there's no way one or more people have been focusing on balance as their main job, look at the recent "large" balance pass, its was a blanket power lv drop that consisted of very little if any individual consideration between the classes. It was literally the easiest patch a dev team could drop and the changes over the many months since were very small in numbers and focused on few specs each time in a manner that could have just been one patch, even if the changes were combined it wouldn't have been considered a very big patch. Honestly I think their main focus is expac and other future ventures as was before. They painted a positive picture to keep the revenue coming as best they could after lay offs but I think its players are in for some future disappoints.
    Gw franchise needs a whole new management and sufficient Capitol to reinvigorate itself from the ground up to be as successful as the now big mmos who it's clear have much larger backing and resources. At least gw3 wouldnt be built on spaghetti code anymore lol.

    Unfortunately, that’s probably exactly how it is. I’m not even sure they have have a game director right now. Pretty sure Mike Z was fired.

    I don’t see anything changing. They keep slapping tape over a leaking pipe but eventually it’s going to burst. Their keep quiet, take people off the main team and push them towards the expansion / other projects mentality is the exact thing that led to the layoffs in the first place.

    From my perspective they never learn from their mistakes and then kitten hits the fan and they go, “oh no how did this happen!?”. It’s a shame really because the game does some things really well but it gets bogged down by the rampant issues that never get addressed.

    In the end we (the customers) will leave for a business that better suits our needs.

    Well it's still a good budget mmo after everything but for the franchise to actually compete with the big boys like wow,ff14 and eso ncsoft would have to hire a whole different dev team especially management and invest the revenue needed to back the project appropriately. This way the games foundation wouldn't be built on poor coding as well. As it stands the company will throw out a decent expac to make what it can off it but the game will probably get very little developmental support before or after the expac. As it stands the players that have been dedicated and faithfully standing by gw2 all these yrs have developed a Stockholm type situation where they start seeing truths but then anet smartly feeds them a crumb and the players praise them and their efforts no matter how little they were as if they are to blind to see its just crumbs and then shortly after their back to wondering where the development and communication progression is and when things get telling anet throws another crumb out. Their really stringing a lot of people along with very little lol though population is falling throughout but still not as fast ad one would think.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yes, constant small adjustments to things that are currently being abused is exactly how you balance PvP. I have no idea what you expect, but it's unrealistic and never going to happen in any game. What anet is currently doing is EXACTLY what people wanted since day1.

    Also, the "blanket power drop" is exactly what every top player and veteran wanted for years, and NEEDED to happen. I never expected it, and I'm so amazed they did it. It was the EXACT thing that needed to happen, 2 expacs of power creep was making the game stupid.

    @TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:
    Guild Wars2 would need it's own PVP focused game if we were gonna see any significant changes for the better that actual competitive gamers can respect.

    But it does have it's own pvp focused game? PvP uses it's own rules for nearly everything at this point. Competitive gamers are not the type of people you want playing your MMO PvP, they ruin the game for everyone else.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yes, constant small adjustments to things that are currently being abused is exactly how you balance PvP. I have no idea what you expect, but it's unrealistic and never going to happen in any game. What anet is currently doing is EXACTLY what people wanted since day1.

    Also, the "blanket power drop" is exactly what every top player and veteran wanted for years, and NEEDED to happen. I never expected it, and I'm so amazed they did it. It was the EXACT thing that needed to happen, 2 expacs of power creep was making the game stupid.

    @TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:
    Guild Wars2 would need it's own PVP focused game if we were gonna see any significant changes for the better that actual competitive gamers can respect.

    But it does have it's own pvp focused game? PvP uses it's own rules for nearly everything at this point. Competitive gamers are not the type of people you want playing your MMO PvP, they ruin the game for everyone else.

    If u actually think about those few balance updates since the blanket drop can u actually say u think a team even if small focused on these changes couldn't have played for a couple week, come to those conclusions including all of which was in the last few patches and more and gave those changes to the devs to implement them in the time itrook to roll out even the first patch after the big lazy blanket patch?
    Also the vets wanted a big power lv drop between the classes with each class individually depowercrept through thoughtfully tweaks to individual skills but instead got a huge blanket power drop that even anet knew was lazy and would cause a lot of imbalances, the opposite of desired intentions. Their bandaid fix and response to such a obvious situation was were aware and will do quick fixes as time goes on lol problem is is they are working at less than a snail's pace. Like I said all the changes that have occured since the big patch should have been includes in the first update 3 weeks post big patch. The dev current balance changes and the frequency are far from efficient and are not even close to acceptable. I'm sry but again look at passive traits still on 5 min CD over half year later lol kitten. Anyway ur expectations from a mmo company are far from where mine are at and this is thee only one of the three I play I feel remotely close to this way. No devs are perfect but lol wow.

  • TeqkOneStylez.8047TeqkOneStylez.8047 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U think adjusting literally a couple of things or less on one or two classes each month after doing a huge lazy blanket power drop balance patch is enough and constitutes efficient and acceptable support of game modes such as pvp and wvw? That's good I guess to keep the bar very very low.

    Yes, constant small adjustments to things that are currently being abused is exactly how you balance PvP. I have no idea what you expect, but it's unrealistic and never going to happen in any game. What anet is currently doing is EXACTLY what people wanted since day1.

    Also, the "blanket power drop" is exactly what every top player and veteran wanted for years, and NEEDED to happen. I never expected it, and I'm so amazed they did it. It was the EXACT thing that needed to happen, 2 expacs of power creep was making the game stupid.

    @TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:
    Guild Wars2 would need it's own PVP focused game if we were gonna see any significant changes for the better that actual competitive gamers can respect.

    But it does have it's own pvp focused game? PvP uses it's own rules for nearly everything at this point. Competitive gamers are not the type of people you want playing your MMO PvP, they ruin the game for everyone else.

    How do they ruin it? Why does the point of it being an MMO matter? And as long as the design team ''designs'' for PVE, then PVP is going to continually get screwed over and over like it already has been multiple times. All the PVP balance team can do is change numbers, when the problems that often need addressing are design problems. Which is why it needs its own game and an actual dedicated full team that has a real interest.

    But that is not going to happen. I'm basically saying PVP is over but they're lucky the whole MMORPG genre is slippin up right now because people are ready to abandon ship as soon as one of these ''new releases'' does it good enough.

  • @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Yes, constant small adjustments to things that are currently being abused is exactly how you balance PvP. I have no idea what you expect, but it's unrealistic and never going to happen in any game. What anet is currently doing is EXACTLY what people wanted since day1.

    You call 5 lines of number changes per month constant? And that more than that doesn't happen in any game? League dishes out larger balance patches near weekly, with hotfixes in between for the outliers. Hell even FFXIV probably gives updates to PvP in a more reasonable pace than this.

  • @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    Ok dude I'mma be honest with you, I'm a developer and if I went to my boss and said "in this month of work I changed 7 numbers and removed 7 vfx" I'd be fired on the spot.
    That's not a balance patch, that's 1 literal hour of work, one of those things you could instadeploy in production without even testing, that's how "minor" it is.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2020

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    You mean the update rhythm that allows for pvp patches every MONTH since february as opposed to every TWO OR THREE months as it was in the past? Yeah, I did my homework. Come on guys....the information is right there in the patch notes! Stop lying!

    Ok dude I'mma be honest with you, I'm a developer and if I went to my boss and said "in this month of work I changed 7 numbers and removed 7 vfx" I'd be fired on the spot.
    That's not a balance patch, that's 1 literal hour of work, one of those things you could instadeploy in production without even testing, that's how "minor" it is.

    This is what I mean ^
    The big game changing patch didnt even require much work or thought lol it was just a blanket decrease to all power coefficients whether a skill needed it or not. Literally the laziest and quickest way to do a large patch and call it a balance pass. Literally all that's being changed in the last YEAR is number changes and not individual thought out number changes but blanket changes and changes steered by vocal threads. No real thought out number change to increase actual balance and zero mechanical changes. I really dont understand how all this is flying under most of the players radar, is it blind fanboyism, Or a ignorance is bliss situation? I don't get it.
    If a small team actually put work into balancing the game as a job we'd see more changes in one months time than what this games received this year, yeah that patch was huge but actually think of the work that went onto it, not much.