A couple of reminders for new players... — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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A couple of reminders for new players...

Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

1) If at the start of the match you go to the middle and after a long fight your team arises victorious don't inmediatly disband chasing into enemy territory. Far isn't your bussiness, neither the enemy beast: chances are that if you struggled to win at middle in team (even under the wing of support classes) you'll be crushed alone, and the enemy team will snowball to mid. But even if that weren't the case, most of the time the rival team team loses mid then they will try to decap far (specially after a wipe). Instead, be ready to defend the territory your team already own. I swear that I don't known what happens with Forest, but that map is a IQ sink...

2) Fighting in "corridors" is pointless (pun intended). You don't always need to stay in the middle of the control point, and sometimes you'll forced to fight on the way to a control point or a buff, or to help another team mate, but just fighting for fighting, away from any goal, and specially duelling off point while your team is bleeding in the scores is loosing the control over the map makes no sense.

I don't mind when the enemy players are more skilled and me or my pals are outplayed in terms of combat but man, is shocking to play in Temple, to win the first attrition war at middle, to see that your partners known how to fight, to score 14 enemy kills in a row tanking at middle, to get the underground buff, and still losing by a long marging because my fellows were really excited about fighting off point. PvP isn't about splashing foes against a wall, and neither Jotun or the Svanir bring you a reward chest for doing a good skill rotation on them.

ANet should run both 2v2 and 5v5 leagues in parallel; 3 control points seems "too intellectual" for the mainstream population of the game...

Comments

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    People play PvP for more than one reason and winning isn't always one of them. Also, yes, fighting off point is detrimental to victory in specific circumstances, but in my exp that's only about 50% of the time.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheRisingBlade.8602 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    People play PvP for more than one reason and winning isn't always one of them.

    I'm sorry but isn't that just inting? All the more power to you if you just want to mess around in unranked, but playing to not win is just throwing the game for your team.

    I play for fun 90% of the time. Fun for me is having good fights or getting kills or getting better.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheRisingBlade.8602 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    People play PvP for more than one reason and winning isn't always one of them.

    I'm sorry but isn't that just inting? All the more power to you if you just want to mess around in unranked, but playing to not win is just throwing the game for your team.

    Not everyone knows what it takes to win and not everyone knows their team mates and what it takes for them to win

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    bad advice
    go learn your role as a class as new player not monotone taking fights

  • Drennon.7190Drennon.7190 Member ✭✭✭

    All around pretty bad advice. Keep up the work.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    Both advices are way to situational

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭

    Common advices:

    • Rotate so that you never let anyone in your team outnumbered. Your team got outnumbered because you did beast/capped a node/you died by jumping in a fight where you were outnumbered? -> bad. Sole exception to that golden rule is if your ally is able to kite outnumbered, then rely on his strength to outnumber the ennemies on the other nodes.
    • Master your build for maximum efficiency.
  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drennon.7190 said:
    All around pretty bad advice. Keep up the work.

    Is pretty much how should work up to gold. Once one reachs platinum there's skill enough involved so there's no dogmas to follow. But for gold and down the alternative is "ignore close, ignore mid, do what you want" and that is the reason why most of players don't reach platinum and keep coming to the forums to demand nerfs to builds that doesn't even show up in tournaments.

    Also, and this is only as example, there's similar problems understanding the value of secundary goals in different maps: in Forest the max amount of times the beast can respawn is 5 (assuming tat you can kill them almost instantly), which means they can potentially deliver 125 + 125 points. Holding a single control point for 14 minutes delivers 420 points and holding two for that time delivers 840 points. If you hold two points for the whole match is almost impossible for the enemy team to win, no matter how much beast they hunt down. That's why focusing in beast is so comical: I remember that in the old days of the Pro League, the ESL and so no decent team wasted time trying to kill them, so remained intact the whole match except in even matches near the end, in which became a valuable targets to seal a victory or a comeback due the respawn is 3'. This works different in plat+ because at that level no team will ensure full cap of nodes for such long time, but at gold and below the fever for killing the beast, getting the gifts of the djin or using the trebutchet is absurd.

    Anyway, wasn't a rant: is more than evident that a lot of people plays PvP just to fill the achivements or to craft the exclusive goodies, and in the mid-long term winning or losing matches doesn't change the overall rewards that the game mode provides. Was just that the essentials of the game mode are really basic, and I see them being ignored on regular basis.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:
    I don't mind when the enemy players are more skilled and me or my pals are outplayed in terms of combat but man, is shocking to play in Temple, to win the first attrition war at middle, to see that your partners known how to fight, to score 14 enemy kills in a row tanking at middle, to get the underground buff, and still losing by a long marging because my fellows were really excited about fighting off point.

    The biggest problem in Temple for me is: A lot of times the people actually care too much about the "underground buff" (tranqulity). Ignoring stillness means you'll lose ... in most of the cases. Enemy gets stillness. Caps 2 nodes that tick with 2 times the speed. You are mid and underground buff ... fighting ... fighting ... fighting ... (it usually takes some time until the fighting is resolved).

    A lot of people are not aware of the map. I don't know it it is on purpose because they care only about fighting ... or if they it is "too much" to keep in mind for them. Advice does not help there. Just give them deathmatch - I agree on this. Some people just want fighting ... while for me keeping the whole map in mind looking at mini map ... is making me worse at combat. :D

    I mean ... there is the people that have a ranged weapon but still fight outside the neutral capture point (but directly next to it). The people running to another poing to cap it while some enemy runs nearby to the own point (where they should have seen him ... not stealthed ... trying to help me kill him quick ... I could get killed in 1 vs. 1 or ignore him as well 2 vs. 1 spiking him down would be safe).

    Happens all the time. I have seen matches where we held 2 cap points most of the time to get turned around by suddenly 2-3 own people trying to kill 1 bunker guy at the eneme node (for us it was "far") and the remaining enemies got all the other nodes as well then cause we then were outnumbered there. : D Teammates feel so random in behaviour sometimes. Like ... where you'd prefer a bad AI instead. :D

  • HAsAsIN.6724HAsAsIN.6724 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    the fact that you are trying your best at least to win and you get 2-3 players that just use autoattack and not using their heal skill and if you call them out and they will tell you that they are Platinum and you wonder, what the kitten are they doing in unranked pressing 11111 and not using their heal skill? and you kitten see Whatevers of the Arena in the other team at the same kitten time?

    no such thing as Random? likely.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I recently had to start with sPvP as building a guildhall sadly requires a ton of PvP Reward Potions. If I build everything I want to have, I need ~ 520 Potions. The amount of WvW Reward potions is only 20, for what ever reason. I guess ANet still likes your content more than WvW.

    Anyway, once in a while, I run into a couple of problems playing unranked. As you guys are not really talkative during the matches and the lobby is used for special chat, I gonna ask my questions here then. You wanted to give some infos to new players anyway.

    1.) Say/map chat can be read by my team only? the enemy team as well?
    2.) Using chat in an active sPvP match is considered about as bad/stupid/unprofessional?
    3.) If a player of one team does not log/join the map, the match appears to start anyway. Is there any sort of compensation for playing 4v5?
    4.) Once had the ready-check to start a match, after clicking on it, I already spawned on the map. Without picking anything. I clicked right after the box popped up. Did the others pick so quickly or is there an option to auto-pick? Is there an option to skip the map-picking completely?
    5.) Does using a finisher give anything? The downed-system with its easy access to CC attacks ruins the stomping 10/10 times for me. If I try, I either get killed or the target escapes. So just lowering the HP appeared to be more successful. But, maybe there is a bonus for using finishers?
    6.) Is there a good method to spot a mesmer? The multi-cloners are a pain, but in sPvP all I can do is spam AoE/Cleave and hope to get the right one :S.
    7.) Does jumping like a gummy-ball (except for DD) have any real effect? This is not an ego-shooter.
    8.) Targeting certain enemies or drawing weird stuff on the minimap. I focus on those targets when someone does that, but it often appears to be just the rage of a single player who got "owned" by that guy. Then we all avenge his death, while the enemy team captures our nodes. Ignore those actions or follow them?
    9.) Scouting the map before the match starts? Good idea to learn the terrain? Bad idea, because enemy will know your damage-type?
    10.) When scouting, some players are full of bloodthirst and start fighting. They do not get loot for this, right?

    Regarding Nodes:
    a.) Match starts, 3 head for mid 2 head for the own node. Who has to leave and join mid? How do you decide? It seems chat is not an option to settle this. Is there a list of classes that should always capture the own node and classes that should always go for mid?
    b.) Mid is busy, enemy node appears to be unprotected. Go for that or join the bloodbath in mid? At some point I learned that winning the match is done by collecting points, which a team gets for capturing nodes. You can lose a match although you have better kills. So I thought claiming nodes would be more useful than ... mashing my head against the others for the sake of doing it.
    c.) Own node captured. Mid captured. How many people camp mid?
    d.) Enemy team is obviously a lot more powerful than ours. They are at 350 points, we are at 80. Is there a /gg option to speed things up?

    Good and bad behavior:
    e.) Noticed a few attacks work through walls. On the other hand teleport-skills work through roofs. Both works as intended? Or is there a list of skills you should not use in terms of fairness?
    f.) Golem Finisher is still seen as bad behavior?
    g.) Scrapper Function Gyro. Enemy stands on an obstacle you cannot reach (even with shadowstep), you down him and finish him with the Gyro.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:

    1.) Say/map chat can be read by my team only? the enemy team as well?
    2.) Using chat in an active sPvP match is considered about as bad/stupid/unprofessional?
    3.) If a player of one team does not log/join the map, the match appears to start anyway. Is there any sort of compensation for playing 4v5?
    4.) Once had the ready-check to start a match, after clicking on it, I already spawned on the map. Without picking anything. I clicked right after the box popped up. Did the others pick so quickly or is there an option to auto-pick? Is there an option to skip the map-picking completely?
    5.) Does using a finisher give anything? The downed-system with its easy access to CC attacks ruins the stomping 10/10 times for me. If I try, I either get killed or the target escapes. So just lowering the HP appeared to be more successful. But, maybe there is a bonus for using finishers?
    6.) Is there a good method to spot a mesmer? The multi-cloners are a pain, but in sPvP all I can do is spam AoE/Cleave and hope to get the right one :S.
    7.) Does jumping like a gummy-ball (except for DD) have any real effect? This is not an ego-shooter.
    8.) Targeting certain enemies or drawing weird stuff on the minimap. I focus on those targets when someone does that, but it often appears to be just the rage of a single player who got "owned" by that guy. Then we all avenge his death, while the enemy team captures our nodes. Ignore those actions or follow them?
    9.) Scouting the map before the match starts? Good idea to learn the terrain? Bad idea, because enemy will know your damage-type?
    10.) When scouting, some players are full of bloodthirst and start fighting. They do not get loot for this, right?

    Regarding Nodes:
    a.) Match starts, 3 head for mid 2 head for the own node. Who has to leave and join mid? How do you decide? It seems chat is not an option to settle this. Is there a list of classes that should always capture the own node and classes that should always go for mid?
    b.) Mid is busy, enemy node appears to be unprotected. Go for that or join the bloodbath in mid? At some point I learned that winning the match is done by collecting points, which a team gets for capturing nodes. You can lose a match although you have better kills. So I thought claiming nodes would be more useful than ... mashing my head against the others for the sake of doing it.
    c.) Own node captured. Mid captured. How many people camp mid?
    d.) Enemy team is obviously a lot more powerful than ours. They are at 350 points, we are at 80. Is there a /gg option to speed things up?

    Good and bad behavior:
    e.) Noticed a few attacks work through walls. On the other hand teleport-skills work through roofs. Both works as intended? Or is there a list of skills you should not use in terms of fairness?
    f.) Golem Finisher is still seen as bad behavior?
    g.) Scrapper Function Gyro. Enemy stands on an obstacle you cannot reach (even with shadowstep), you down him and finish him with the Gyro.

    1) Use /t to write only for your team.
    2) No. Some use it more than others, some never chat.
    3) If you lose a ranked match with one of your team mates disconected the remaining players on your team doesn't lose ranks.
    4) There's a running limit time to start the game, if happens that a match was near ready to start, one player leaved and you were offered the chance to join can happen that the match starts just seconds after jou oin to it. But you'll never invited to a match which already started.
    5) No.
    6) You can configure the select/rotate between foes; the default priority is 1: champions (for PvE and WvW), 2: enemy players, 3: everything else. It will prioritize players orver their phantoms or clones. You still can target them manually.
    7) You can perform a jump-evade which has the same duration but a bit larger distance travelling.
    8) Usually means that the signaled targed or area is going to be decapped, or lacks defense and should be capped for the closest member or your team, etc. You don't need to follow those indications, but the player which signs that thinks that is important...
    9) Matter of tastes; you can gain familiarity with the maps in the custom arenas. I prefer to not reveal my loadout to the enemy players before the match.
    10) Firghting before the match starts doesn't provide any material rewards, albeit offers a glimpse to the involved to get knownledge about their foes and their gameplay.

    A) Close is usually capped by either a bunker or a high mobility class.
    B ) There's no "true" answer for that. Time and experience will help to take that choice over what you had learn.
    C) Same as B.
    D) No, sadly.
    E) Intended, and there's not such thing as "fairness". ANet trends to fix bugs which could be exploited.
    F) Any finisher is fine; ANet has "llama drama", "chickennado" and similar silly finishers, plus the whole kitten of the pedestals after the match for the winners, so any bad blood those things spill in the game they did that to themselves...
    G) Also fine.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    You already got the answer of most of your questions, but here are some precisions... These are not universal rules of course, each game is different; but that could help you to get the spirit of the gamemode, which is mostly do not make your team outnumbered.

    Regarding Nodes:
    a.) Match starts, 3 head for mid 2 head for the own node. Who has to leave and join mid? How do you decide? It seems chat is not an option to settle this. Is there a list of classes that should always capture the own node and classes that should always go for mid?

    -> "the guy that is the most able to win a 1v1/least impactful in teamfight"; so any brawler would do the job. Sometimes it's not as clear as that, and you will see people "fighting for the close", in these situations either you really show your interest for the point (typically mobility skill, small target on the guy -shift+alt+t-), or you let him take it.

    b.) Mid is busy, enemy node appears to be unprotected. Go for that or join the bloodbath in mid? At some point I learned that winning the match is done by collecting points, which a team gets for capturing nodes. You can lose a match although you have better kills. So I thought claiming nodes would be more useful than ... mashing my head against the others for the sake of doing it.

    -> If you are in my team and I see you abandoning a "nowhere-to-be-lost even-numbered teamfight" to cap far, i'll probably shout on you. Why ? Because you would have sacrificed all your teammates and the nodes they were fighting for to cap an other node, where you will also probably die outnumbered while your teammates are at respawn.
    Consider an outnumbered teamfight to be lost. If you are the reason your allies got outnumbered, then it is bad move.

    However, if you see the teamfight is really getting lost, then uncapping far might give your team the time they need to reorganize. Consider full capping it ONLY if you will be able to sustain a 2v1 for a while, otherwise your best move would be to regroup with your dead teammates once the point is uncapped. Why ? Because uncapping is faster than capping, and the time the ennemy will take to cap it is the time your team will be able to win a potential easy 5v4.

    c.) Own node captured. Mid captured. How many people camp mid?

    There are no clear answers to that, as it depends heavily on the mobility you have, the burst you have or the sustain you have, and the spread of your team on the map. One thing is sure: most of the ennemies are at respawn, so it will be easier for your team if they dont "come all at once". Several ways to do so:

    • Uncap far if it's unprotected, or burst it hard with one mate and let a sustain guy on it ... or leave it uncapped if the ennemy team comes to blob it. At that point dying is extremely important to avoid, as they would be in position to snowball all the map.
    • (if you have a bursty build) Help your team to kill the last people alive on the map. That would send people at respawn with a delay timer, perfect to farm the 3-4 guys that are respawning with 5 ppl.
    • (if you have a high mobility build) Try to poke them a bit at respawn, the most scattered they are the best it is for you. If they can waste a lot on cooldown on you without you getting killed, that is best: as soon as an other teammate will join the fight, they will be pretty dead ... again.

    This moment of the game is crucial, as the defender will have to keep the snowball active (i.e., permanently outnumbering the ennemy on all the fights) while keeping the nodes . If they regroup properly (favoured by the proximity of the spawn ... the infamous "regroup close"), the other team can very easily start snowballing if your team is not ready (aka they miss the first 5 s of the fight).

  • John.8507John.8507 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not good when you gain mid etc and everyone just ups and goes somewhere else. Fair enough if close needs re-taking or something, but the whole team shouldn't leave, you need to guard points as well as capture.

    Try to fight close to capture points, or on them etc.

    Know the maps too, especially ones like temple - Meditation and stillness, Revenge of the capricorn - bell, and the forest - getting beasts, and skyhammer.