What do you think about implementing PvP gear system into WvW rather than PvE gear system we have? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What do you think about implementing PvP gear system into WvW rather than PvE gear system we have?

Ahnlok.3897Ahnlok.3897 Member ✭✭

Although, I highly doubt Anet will give 0 consideration on this issue,
I just wanna hear you guys thoughts.

<1

Comments

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And if you had bothered to watch the stream you kittened about in another thread you would have heard that Raymond pitched the idea to the team ages ago, they said the community was not excited about it at the time. But these days they are still thinking of ways to do this for easier experimentation of builds like pvp.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @Ahnlok.3897 said:
    Although, I highly doubt Anet will give 0 consideration on this issue,
    I just wanna hear you guys thoughts.

    Play in exotics, craft ascended and get leggy gear like everyone else has done for years.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd go for it. :3 I like the pvp amulet armor sigil thing. Maybe the option is make a 3 way pvp. I'd definitely try that

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only system I would accept is one that would overide legendary gear that gives you freedom for any mix and combo of stats.. But that's it. I don't want no amulet system like pvp. But it's basically a no no because it's literally just legendary armory without having to make legendaries lol.

  • Leo.5829Leo.5829 Member ✭✭

    To be honest they should have done so from launch. It would make experimenting with other classes and builds so much better. It would probably also be easier to balance the game with a pvp gear system. (Also since people mentioned it: as someone who has legendary equipment it doesn't bother me at all if such a system is implemented in wvw, in fact i rather welcome it because crafting an additional legendary armor set so i can play with light armor classes seems so off putting and i'm not going to do it.)

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    The whole game should get a 3 attribute amulet system with options for all possible attribute combinations. This would be more balanced than everything we have seen up to now.

    Attribute powercreep (4+ attribute gear with more overal attributes than 3 attribute gear) will always cause issues. And the limited amount of attribute combinations does favor certain builds or even classes.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they can't do the amulet in wvw. They should make a 3 way pvp. :3 gogogo

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Kill 90% of builds and make everyone just pick a single meta?

    Yeah sounds lovely. Go for it. It'll surely be better.

    But pvp already used the amulet. How will they be affected when that's the pvp game already. All I'm saying is add one more side since it's a v b in pvp.

    In wvw there's only a few working builds too. Sure you can do what ever combo you like but there optimal cookie of the month will always beat the non optimal

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This thread again? This will never happen.

  • phreeak.1023phreeak.1023 Member ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    Never played pvp but they could add something like people can select every possible (when they have the add-ons) attribute combination from Beserker to Minnestrel +Sigil, Runes, wvw infusion for each gear slot. People, especially new players dont have to craft/buy gear and waste hundred of gold only to realize they don't like the meta build.

    And let us save it as templates, so people can have for one class different builds for different roles and situations.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No to current Spvp amulet system. I would have been less likely to say no to GW1's pvp per-item customization. It's 8 yearish too late of course.

    D:

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  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    I would instantly quit the game

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  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    yeah lets implemented the worst aspect of GW2 into wvw.....lmao no thanks. Quickest way for anet to lose me and my gem store purchases.

  • Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    That could be probably the final nail to the coffin of the whole WvW game mode for me. Not sure if some ANet managers (or whoever in ANet is deciding which game changes will be implemented) actually secretly want this to happen.
    No. Thanks for suggestion. Enough said.

    // edit: fixed typo

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imo if you want PvP ammy's, go to PvP. That would be the final nail for a vast number of WvW'ers. Would kill build diversity

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  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like it the way it is. If I want relatively fair fights with even teams and a level playing field, I'll play PvP. But I play WvW for the randomness. I feel comforted knowing that anything can happen and "fair" is not even a consideration. Let's just see what happens, shall we?

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faenar.8036 said:
    That could be probably the final nail to the coffin of the whole WvW game mode for me. Not sure if some ANet managers (or whoever in ANet is deciding which game changes will be implemented) actually secretly want this to happen.
    No. Thanks for suggestion. Enough said.

    // edit: fixed typo

    It was talked about in their wvw stream yesterday.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/627995009?t=56m32s

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    The whole game should get a 3 attribute amulet system with options for all possible attribute combinations. This would be more balanced than everything we have seen up to now.

    Attribute powercreep (4+ attribute gear with more overal attributes than 3 attribute gear) will always cause issues. And the limited amount of attribute combinations does favor certain builds or even classes.

    Personal wish of mine is for them to do a WvW split on equipment to reduce the number of stats gained from 4-spreads and cele gear, as well as decreasing the numbers on boon/condition duration bonuses from runes. Just like they did in PvP. Doing some more splits for certain sigils would be nice as well. Not sure if such a thing is possible, but it would be nice.

  • Bish.8627Bish.8627 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    I would love it. I think one of the major issues WvW in gaining numbers is how accessible it is to everyone. We have meta builds, locked and invisible squads that demand voice chat for entry, which is third party and imo should be outlawed apart from guild only squads and players getting kicked for not being a meta build, so if that doesn't scare away your average player wanting to give WvW a try, how about when they realise, lets say, their zerker ranger isn't ideal for zerg game play, only really roaming. So they decide to roll a scourge, they have to level it, fine maybe even you can get away with that in WvW if you aren't too fussy about being in a squad, or even EoTM if anyone still runs it, get you up to speed. But then they have to gear it. And then guess what, next balance pass, scourges are out of favour, everyone wants bomber scrappers, sorry your scourge is not welcome here, go make a scrapper.... Facing gearing up chars is daunting to anyone other than quite a hardcore player, as easy as those of us with 6000+ hours think it is, new players may not feel the same.

    But I also understand, those of us who have spent thousands of gold over 7 years, are gonna be dissapointed, I feel there is a bigger picture. Maybe there can be a hybrid solution so not everyone loses out.

  • Comus.7365Comus.7365 Member ✭✭

    not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.
    in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

  • @Comus.7365 said:
    not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.
    in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

    The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

    There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

    But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

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  • Comus.7365Comus.7365 Member ✭✭

    @WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

    @Comus.7365 said:
    not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.
    in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

    The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

    There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

    But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

    oh ok i thought they had access to the same thing just that theirs was gear independent.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @WraithOfStealth.1624 said:

    @Comus.7365 said:
    not sure why people find the idea so offensive. from what i remember in spvp you pick your weapons and the stats you desire for your build and you're ready to go.
    in what way does that become a negative? i even saw someone say it would be bad for build diversity. how?

    The pvp stat amulets are locked into specific combinations, people in WvW like to use multiple different stats combinations on seperate gear pieces and min/max them for more build variety. It's more fun than just picking 1 trinket with all stats imo. So the build diversity thing is mostly about reducing the amount of player input on your stats. Double if they decide to remove pve runes/sigils and opt to use the pvp ones.

    There's a case to be made for ease of entry for new players but imo it's too late to change to something like the amulet system now that people have invested all their time and gold into obtaining gear/infusions for wvw. Also anet is working on the legendary armory/template thing which basically accomplishes the same as long as you spend the gold to obtain full legendary gear. I don't see them launching that and then going to pvp system.

    But yeah this topic has been brought up dozens of times and always goes the same direction, nowhere.

    I think some people are over reacting because they think the system would just be a full copy of the pvp system, basically what's available for stats and runes and sigils, leaving out some stuff like bunker stats (which some people want removed anyways so that would be a plus for them).

    I think they would implement the system switchable like pvp but with full slots and not just an amulet, while keeping all the pve stats available, even as broken as some combinations might be. It's something in the back of anets minds anyways, to maybe get something of a hybrid system, to make it easier to switch and test builds. Raymond mentioned just leaving it to legendaries doesn't feel right.

    But they know players don't want a full on pvp system in place.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    A skill overpowered? just nerf their dodge, balanced. - Anet
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther

  • TwoGhosts.6790TwoGhosts.6790 Member ✭✭✭

    At this point, I think Rome would burn if they tried it.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    Is it this time of the year again? If you like amulet system, just stick to spvp. Thanks.

  • hugeboss.5432hugeboss.5432 Member ✭✭

    Nobody likes the gw2 PvP gear system... except Blizzard & possibly Amazon.

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  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    Would greatly prefer it, even though I have a legendary in every weapon slot for all my builds and full ascended armor + thousands upon thousands of gold and mats.

    Some armor stat combos, runes, sigils, food, and pots simply should not exist in WvW.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2020

    I'd rather exotics scaled to ascended weapons' damage in WvW as that's literally the only major hurdle if you're new. However it isn't a huge problem.
    Ascended amulet+trinkets? Go to Bjora Marches zone for amulet/trinkets and convert for rings and 2nd trinket.
    Ascended back? Get winterberries or blood rubies.
    Ascended armor doesn't provide more than 2% overall stats but there's a 1% bonus damage per WvW infusion to guards/keep lords so that's what adds up. (6% in total if you don't have armor)

    It's been shown they don't care if ascended food + utilities are used in WvW but maybe the +150 toughness from karka potions should be removed as it stacks on top of food. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Potion_Of_Karka_Toughness)

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2020

    I'd be fine with it if they had the full armor/trinket system to mix-and-match, and if they used the PvE gear values as they do - in essence, free armor and trinkets. sPvP has a much slower combat speed because stats are just downright lower. This works for some people. I play WvW and always have solely for the faster combat speed.

    Several of my builds are optimized within fractions of a percent for very specific purposes which are just not possible to do at all in sPvP when the entirety of the gear config is gated behind a single selection. With the larger scale and needing to handle more potential cases comes the need for much more tweaking, and the need for stats to offset some kit weaknesses is pretty important in a lot of builds which are just straight up not viable in sPvP compared to others.

    Otherwise, without this level of customization, absolutely not.
    WvW would be made a lot more diverse if they removed Dire/TB from the game and prevented ascended food from being used if we're going to talk about limiting PvE intervention.

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    PvP gear sets are far more restrictive and resuslt in far less viable build diversity in PvP, more so today since some stat combos have flat out been removed.
    Bringing that into WvW would very likely ruin the game mode.

  • @Ahnlok.3897 said:
    Although, I highly doubt Anet will give 0 consideration on this issue,
    I just wanna hear you guys thoughts.

    I believe a feature like that would be met with revolt, and eventually end up in a catastrophic turmoil in the community. People have spent too much time crafting for their ascended and legendary gear. Implementing a PVP gear system in WVW would be a huge f*** you to everyone who have strived to get where they are at today in terms of gear. It would render everything they have worked for completely useless. The amount of outcry would ultimately lead to Anet having to grant some sort of compensation for the amount of hours and gold that people have dispursed , or perhaps push those with ascended/legendary gear up the ladder so that it would be easier for them to acquire it, and that too would probably spark a lot of tension. Either way, I don't see this happening at all.

  • jsp.6912jsp.6912 Member ✭✭

    best idea ever if they balance stat like in pvp

  • Taobella.6597Taobella.6597 Member ✭✭✭

    once you add fix gear to a game mode there is no longer any build theory. there just the best build an that it.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always thought a system that split attributes into categories and then you could place x amount of points into each would have been the way to go if they were looking at a new one for wvw.

    Offensive:
    Power
    Condition

    Defensive:
    Toughness
    Vitality
    Healing

    Auxiliary:
    Ferocity (crit damage and condi damage)
    Precision
    Expertise
    Concentration

    Idk just a thought.

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  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020

    The new living story is implementing wvw to pve. In a way. :3 spoilers. No pk so far though. Just saw pve enemy use catapult to hit a gate.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • kiwituatara.6053kiwituatara.6053 Member ✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020

    Maybe something down the middle:

    • Option to use WvW build template or your own gear
    • Gear: Make all stat combination of exotic tier available in WvW build templates, easier to experiment new builds and easier access for newer players. If you are happy with the build, you can go ahead and craft/buy/etc for the ascended/legendary gears to make the build "complete".
    • Runes: Introduce "Intermediate runes" which are 6 set runes that provide less total stat than the Superior counterparts. They are only available through the WvW build templates and aren't actually trade-able.
    • Sigils: WvW build templates uses Major sigil equivalents only.

    I think this would help with freedom of builds while not punishing the people that have grinded out their ascended/legendary items already. The only problem would be the economy of minor/major sigils/runes, which I don't think is a huge consequence.

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    An amulet or any other fixed stat system should have been implemented since the beginning. PvE gear and items have no place in a PvP environment.

    I find it curious that build diversity is a recurring argument to defend a deficient gearing system. Since the very start PvE gear and items have bread nothing but broken builds. From Perplexity runes (the first implementation) over Expertise and Concentration attributes to now Trailblazer or Minstrel gear, the list is seemingly endless. The ascended power creep aggravated an already existing problem.

    If you're into WvW for PvP then there is literally no way you can be OK with the current system.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025

    Even though this might be a good idea balance wise.

    It would kinda kill the gamemode for me. Minmaxing gear, theory crafting for hours. That's what's fun for me.
    Tweaking gear a bit after fighting.

    But with pvp-amulet system, this would completely die.
    You can't go like "200more healing power and I'm good"

    Maybe if they made an amulet for every single equipment piece. And nerf the stats of them. That would be fine for me.

    But that wouldn't really help I think.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the balance from PvP better than WvW.
    And If something seems balanced in small scale combat it will be the same for big scale. And when something is broken in small scale is obnoxious in big scale.
    Example: Condi rev is unbalance in PvP but still manageable. You can have some matches where you can get teh upper hand if you are much better than the rev. But in WvW the condi rev build is kitten level of high brain you can 6v1 easily with just having a keyboard and an screen.

  • Zepoolpe.9217Zepoolpe.9217 Member ✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    If you're into WvW for PvP then there is literally no way you can be OK with the current system.

    Of course we are into WvW for PvP: WvW is a form of PvP! if we were not into it, we would have stayed in PvE..

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:
    I find it curious that build diversity is a recurring argument to defend a deficient gearing system. Since the very start PvE gear and items have bread nothing but broken builds. From Perplexity runes (the first implementation) over Expertise and Concentration attributes to now Trailblazer or Minstrel gear, the list is seemingly endless. The ascended power creep aggravated an already existing problem.

    It's not an issue of "PvE gear", it's an issue of the 4 stats sets. this gives both an increaseed stat budget compared to the older 3 stats sets, and the fact that now you can have effcient fully tanky sets with TB or Minstrel, where you near max out toughness and vitality while still having a near optimum condi dmg capability (TB) or a near otpimum healing and buffing capability (Minstrel).

    On top of that the design of the eilte specs were absolutly not thought through and you end up with bluids that pile up tons of condis on top or tons of buffs and the number of broken builds is reaching an all time high.

    With the initial system you still had some broken builds from a stats point of view (ex: Dire) but not as much as now and you had to make choices in your choice of stats and decide between dmg vs tanky vs healing (cele is an oddity but it was never broken because it has always been in synergy with specific builds, otherwise you are just average at everything but can't shine in anything).

    Also, funily enough other MMOs are using similar gearing system in both PvE and PvP and have managed to struck some form of balance eventually...
    The sPvP gearing system is good to even out the gearing and level field and have all players play in the same category instead of having several tiers when leveling, then a end-game tier for max level, tier in which the newcomer is at a disadvantage because he has not grinded yet his gear.

    That's the only benefit from the amulet system, and it's done at the expense of some people being able to really min/max the stats for your use (more or less dmg vs more or less survivability, etc..).

  • Senqu.8054Senqu.8054 Member ✭✭✭

    To also give a voice here, I’m against it. Build-/Theory -Crafting in WvW is if not the last thing left that has something seriously well thought out. Not in terms of balance but in terms of build diversity. If I am not even able to have diverse builds with traits because there is every time only one single trait that is good to use why should I want to tune that down even more. There are other things that would help for example maybe balance the kitten classes?

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    -Calling the current state of sPvP 'Balanced' is just kitten absurd. GL "balancing" WvW under the same model.

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bish.8627 said:
    I would love it. I think one of the major issues WvW in gaining numbers is how accessible it is to everyone. We have meta builds, locked and invisible squads that demand voice chat for entry, which is third party and imo should be outlawed apart from guild only squads and players getting kicked for not being a meta build, so if that doesn't scare away your average player wanting to give WvW a try, how about when they realise, lets say, their zerker ranger isn't ideal for zerg game play, only really roaming. So they decide to roll a scourge, they have to level it, fine maybe even you can get away with that in WvW if you aren't too fussy about being in a squad, or even EoTM if anyone still runs it, get you up to speed. But then they have to gear it. And then guess what, next balance pass, scourges are out of favour, everyone wants bomber scrappers, sorry your scourge is not welcome here, go make a scrapper.... Facing gearing up chars is daunting to anyone other than quite a hardcore player, as easy as those of us with 6000+ hours think it is, new players may not feel the same.

    But I also understand, those of us who have spent thousands of gold over 7 years, are gonna be dissapointed, I feel there is a bigger picture. Maybe there can be a hybrid solution so not everyone loses out.

    How is this any different to PVE Raids? PVE raiding is all about being on the right class with the right builds and if youre not you dont get invited or you get kicked. And they are susceptible to the same issues with balance passes. A class/build maybe meta for a while and after balance it is no longer the best and you will have to re gear or swap classes.

    I dont do raids because i dont have the gear, whatever needed to get into a squad. I would never be invited or would be insta kicked. Lets have PVE raids with amulet system also so that its accessible for everyone. To paraphrase you "so it doesnt scare away the average player who wants to give PVE raids a try"

    I can imagine the howls of anger from PVE' ers if that was suggested.

  • @Ahnlok.3897 said:
    Although, I highly doubt Anet will give 0 consideration on this issue,
    I just wanna hear you guys thoughts.

    I hate it. don't do it.