7 Examples ( and fixes ) showing most remaining balance issues are due to busted design/mechanics. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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7 Examples ( and fixes ) showing most remaining balance issues are due to busted design/mechanics.

Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 22, 2020 in PVP

As the dust from the balance mega patch has finally somewhat settled, things are overall...well, fine. A lot of the easy oneshots have been toned down and overall the game seems to be in a better state. And yet, the nerf threads keep coming. Nerf FB monkeyspam! Nerf Auramancer auras! Nerf Rev teleports! Nerf Thief everything! Nerf Ranger damage!

But if you take a broader look at the meta, most remaining issues have a root cause that lies in broken mechanics rather than broken skills, and that's what this thread is about. This is more or less a series of suggestions on how to make things better, and if you pay close attention you will notice that every single suggestion I am about to make touches on every build in the meta in some way.

This thread is thus a sort of psuedo-succesor to my old cheese thread ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86519/the-elephant-in-the-balance-room-how-cheese-has-evolved-to-hurt-gw2-pvp-more-than-balance/p1) with the goal of going over some core rules of the game and how they can be tweaked to make the game feel a lot better. All without completely gutting whatever spec is on top of Metabattle every month with the recent "Increase a cooldown here, reduce sustain by 2% there, reduce a number by 10 over yonder" style of balance passes we have been getting recently that have been somewhat 'swings and a miss'.

Mechanic change #1 - Improve the quality of animations, strongly consider adding a UI option that lets you see the cast bar of nearby enemies.

I'll start this thread out with the most obvious one. GW2 unlike GW1 doesn't have cast bars. If it did, I imagine it might look like this:

Poor animation quality continues to be possibly the most serious issue in all competitive modes. There are tons of very strong abilities in the game that are a lot stronger thant they deserve to be in PvP because they look barely any different than an auto attack and thus get lost in the visual clutter of more vibrant abilities. Necro fears, many weapon skills, tons of utilities all continue to have weak or no animation or cast time to them at all. Powerful boons like stability still have no visual effect. On the flip side, you also get skills with gigantic animations like Ghastly breach which can potentially just make visual clutter. Cast bars are one way to add a simple but discerning animation to most skills without making those animations take up an entire screen.

The design of GW2 was to not have cast bars because animations would be good enough. But are they really? There continues to be a ton of skills and effects in GW2 that have little to no tell, and fixing this would go a long way towards better PvP.

Mechanic change #2 - Change Quickness to stack intensity, up to 5 times. Each stack would grant "increases attack and action speeds by 10%"

Quickness is very busted. +50% attack/animation/cast speed is an absolutely insane buff in any PvP setting. Quickness in its current form allows builds that exploit it to flat out ignore the balance between "Animation time / effect" turning skills that would normally have perfectly fair casting time into feeling instant-cast. Because quickness alone allows people to do immense amounts of near unavoidable damage, it also allows for people to play very passively and defensive while their quickness-engine recharges. Not exactly interactive gameplay.

The first thing making quickness stack intensity does is give the balance team some breathing room when trying to split PvE/PvP skills. In PvE, quickness is mandatory for Raids. In PvP, it's busted. This has resulted in a lot of skill splits where quickness duration on many PvP skills has been nerfed down to only a few seconds. Problem is, what makes quickness so strong is its burst capacity, so even a few seconds of quickness is plenty enough to press 2345 and blow someone up. This change allows quickness to be balanced for PvP without changing how it functions in PvE.

Having quickness stack intensity means a lot of quicknesss granting skills like elixir U and Phase traversal can now be properly balanced by making them grant only 2 stacks in PvP for +20% speed. Still useful, but a lot less oppressive for damage spikes and a lot less enabling of the "save everything for quickness lol" playstyle.

Mechanic change #3 - Change condition removal to prioritize higher stacks first, instead of by order of application

The current system of condi removal "first in last out" is effectively inherited from GW1, which had several distinct differences from GW2. Back in the GW1 days, having condition removal based on order of application made perfect sense. This is because GW1 did not have tons of passives that apply free condis, did not have stacks, did not have anywhere near the amount of condition application methods, and most importantly of all did not have condition damage as a stat ( all conditions did a base-value effect ). In GW1, putting cover conditions was a neat way to protect more powerful conditions from removal.

However, this system is terrible for GW2 for several reasons. The existence of stacks makes it so a condi may or may not be powerful and the order of application may or may not have anything to do with skillful play. Applying cover conditions in this games is also hilariously easy compared to GW1, to the point that most condi builds have multiple traits that automatically add 1-3 cover conditions for you. In GW1, hitting a target with 6+ conditions in PvP required careful team coordination. In GW2, hitting a target with 6+ conditions requires zero team effort and in many cases can be done with one or two instant cast abilities. GW2 is a completely different game. This means that skills that remove 1-2 conditions that were effective counterplay in GW1, aren't really an effective counter in GW2. Before you even get into the problem of "which skills and traits are making this build OP" the issue standing in front of it is that condi builds are boosted by flat out having superior stats as there is very little reason for them not to monkey-up with rabid/sage/etc.

The biggest problem changing condi removal to prioritize stacks immediately fixes is it puts condi builds in a position where speccing into only condition damage runs the risk of having your damage negated by any build that runs several small condition removals. This means that in order to do optimal damage as condi, you could no longer get away with running nonsense such as "Rabid amulet + every defensive trait in the book" and would instead have to run Sinister/Destroyer just like how power builds are forced to run Berserker for optimal damage. This has been a serious balance problem in GW2 for a very long time. Power builds need all Power/Precision/Ferocity to work. Condi builds just need Condition damage, leading to the problem of "Condi + Vitality/Toughness/Healing amulut + defensive traits / weapons" being chosen. This is why "Condi bunker" builds in GW2 have always been very monkey / low skill low effort high reward and why every condi meta always ends up feeling extremely degenerate and spammy.

Mechanic change #4 - Make "reveal on cast" the default behavior for using damage abilities from stealth, as opposed to "reveal on hit". Make the stealth outline graphic that is normally only visible to allies also visible to enemies in PvP if they are within a radius of 300 unit range. Double the duration of most stealth skills.

The current mechanics of how stealth works in GW2 completely lack any meaningful interaction or counterplay. It can infinitely reset fights. It can be used to make any animation invisible and therefore carry with it the same design problems of instant cast skills. It can be used as a get out of jail free or an engage. And the biggest problem of all, it allows mistakes to go unpunished. Say you are stealthed playing a P/P thief and you shoot a guardian using Shield 5. Guess what? This doesn't reveal you since your attack didn't hit and was blocked by shield 5s projectile block effect. Just one of many of the silly mechanical issues that comes with reveal on hit instead of on attack. This is not good PvP game design. This makes stealth reliant builds neither fun to play as ( unless you don't feel insulted by the blatant hand-holding ) nor fun to play against.

Most other PvP games usually have built in restrictions to stealth that require the use to actually require some thought and have some sort of counter to them. Such as making stealth visible within a certain distance, putting hit confirm on stealthed players, or putting a delay between unstealthing when can you can attack. GW2 has none of these restrictions, leading to stealth being a mechanic that is almost impossible to balance right. This proposed change would make stealth last longer, but have restriction in place to prevent the abuse/mindless gameplay that the current system enables.

Mechanic change #5 - Add roughly 2 seconds of stability to most stunbreaks in the game, but only if the ability succesfully breaks a stun similar to how the Revenant trait "Glaring resolve" works.

Stability and CC are hard to balance. Too much stability-on-demand leads to the mindless gameplay style of "Pop stability and then spam attacks without fear of being interrupted", such as what pre-nerf Elixer U was for holosmiths where they would basically just "press elixir U press photon forge press 2354111" -not exactly skillful gameplay. On the flipside, too little counters to CC leads to the playstyle of "zerg down a single target while spamming CC" which is honestly where we are at now.

Making stubreaks give stability when a stun is actually broken as a default behavior for breaking stuns is a good way to address this issue. Because you wouldn't get the stability unless you are actually CC'd first, it doesn't carry the "pop stab spam abilities" problem that on demand stability gives. It's a simple way to tone down CC spam and thus requiring more skillful use of CC without permitting the problems that comes with too much CC immunity.

Mechanic change#6 - Drastically nerf downstate in competitive game modes. Make it no longer increase health pool, give it double bleedout speed, and reduce the healing by 60%

This is sort of a compromise between the "this is fine" camp and the "remove downstate from PvP" camp. Downstate is currently way too easy to res out of by any support spec, especially now after the damage-nerf megapatch a few months back. This leads to certain team comps being able to win fights they normally shouldn't win just because they can keep ressing over and over and over again to reset the fight. Rallying is also way too easy because of how long a target can stay downed

Nerfing downstate so that it's significantly shorter and easier to take out is one way to balance it without completely removing the mechanic from the game. It would give teams a small window to Res a play that downed, but not such a huge window that they can carry fights and exploit rallybots by doing so.

Mechanic change#7 - Give a balance pass toward reducing the radius on many AoE skills.

This one is a bit controversial because it could make PvE players sad, but the reality is GW2 has too many skills that hit the entire point, and too many balance changes that actively encourage this sort of playstyle.

An example of this would be Revs "Call to anguish" skill https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_to_Anguish This skill had its radius buffed to 360 and changed into an AoE CC. The meta eventually realized that this was broken, and thus the skill was heavily abused, then nerfed. But it wasn't fixed, oh no. It was simply given an energy cost nerf, completely ignoring the extremely high possibility that maybe just maybe the radius buff should just be reverted? Condi Rev is still meta btw. Any skill that can CC the entire point is just going to be automatically very strong in a game mode around holding points. Symbolbrand is another good example. What reason does "monkeybrand" have to not just randomly spam symbols and buffs all over the point when symbols can cover 85% of the point? Not much of a reason at all really.

Again, it's all about counterplay. Abilities that hit the entire part of the map that matters, especially those that have a continuous effect, are going to be very difficult to counter despite being extremely easy to abuse.

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Comments

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if anet will read this

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    • anims are pretty obvious in this game, i'm not sure a visible cast bar is necessary.
    • theres no reason to do that to quickness, it simply has to have reduced durations and maybe even reduce the overall level to 30% or something.
    • dunno how I feel about the 3rd one. that would kill the condi cover thing but clean up team fights a lot.
    • no to stealth change. someone in professions subforum said that there should still be visible damage numbers against people in stealth, as well as one other change. it sounded pretty good to me.
    • yes to stab on stun break.
    • no lol. downstate isn't that bad, all this constant qq is really annoying. just make rally 1:1.
    • yeah aoe is kind of ridiculous. imo the duration should be shortened instead and the effects increased. maybe some aoe radius nerfs.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • ZeteCommander.4937ZeteCommander.4937 Member ✭✭✭

    Very agree with the modification of action animation and stealth mechanism

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    I agree with pretty much all of these except maybe #7, all other changes should come first.

    suggestion #2 will not happen. A-net doesn't want to split how stuff like this works between modes. Partly because "oh noes new ppl wont understand, we want consistency!" excuse we always get, and the other part being how apparently complicated it is to implement something like that. As much as I like the suggestion, I think a simpler and healthier solution (as to not step on the toes of #1's attempt to "Improve the quality of animations") is to just remove quickness from PvP, or make it so it only works for interacting with objectives.

    I don't think this will actually "fix" the balance, even with these mechanical changes some classes over perform while others are over-nerfed.
    Suggestion #3 and #5 as an example: Although I think are healthy overall; it will likely cause some builds to survive to long, and that will need to be addressed. Also anything currently under-performing isn't going to change.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    You missed one: Vastly reduce the number of CCs which can AOE. This is the main reason CC is such an issue right now imo.

  • soul.6527soul.6527 Member ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    1 nice to have
    2 sure but reduce reaper shroud cast times
    3 not sure about that cause of fear and cover condis stoping it from being cleansed
    4 on for stuff like theif stealth attacks the ones that is on auto attack position cause it would be broken if you use your heal to heal while in stealth and it reveals you and the part about seeing enemy’s in stealth is a big no way too strong of nerf
    5 is ok but de values traits that are on berserker and maybe not worth cause necros can corrupt that stab, and just would stop warrior stun lock
    6 no don’t touch what’s not broken the stuff like toss elixir r should be just nerfed to a level like necro blood well heal
    7maybe but would change the game substantially.
    @Master Ketsu.4569

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    suggestion #2 will not happen. A-net doesn't want to split how stuff like this works between modes. Partly because "oh noes new ppl wont understand, we want consistency!"

    Quickness actually would work the same in PvE and PvP with my suggestion.

    The difference is making it stack intensity means most quickness skills would grant 1~2 stacks in PvP and 4-5 stacks in PvE. I would like to think most people could get used to it, and raids would still have access to permanent 5 stacks.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    • theres no reason to do that to quickness, it simply has to have reduced durations and maybe even reduce the overall level to 30% or something.

    As someone who has been in top 250 with power shiro / rev builds multiple times I can tell you no it really wouldn't. Quickness even at 1 second is long enough to blow someone up if you know what you are doing.

    Reducing it to 30% would work though. The problem with that is PvE. Raids are designed/balanced around the current 50% quickness, and I guarantee PvErs would cry a hurricane of tears if the boon was nerfed to 30% because anything that lowers their DPS numbers too drastically causes an absolute metric ton of butt-hurt. Making it stack intensity lets the boon function the same in both game modes, while just making it easier to reach max stacks in PvE.

  • soul.6527soul.6527 Member ✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 can you tone down the sarcasm? Because the point was lost during all of that.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @soul.6527 said:
    @AliamRationem.5172 can you tone down the sarcasm? Because the point was lost during all of that.

    Sure thing! Just about the hundredth time this particular suggestion has been made (in various flavors). It gets old.

  • soul.6527soul.6527 Member ✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @AliamRationem.5172 I mean this is the gw2 forms nothing original, your complaint isn’t original, probably (all honesty not even gonna bother to double check that) it all a big meh festival . Where you get a big chuckle out of it.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I absolutely love your approach to changing quickness and think it is a particularly elegant way of reducing its effectiveness in PvP/WvW while leaving it intact in PvE. I have been trying to think of a way that tones down the cheese factor of Phase Traversal port-bursting with power Rev while still maintaining the current synergy the stab-consuming effect Brutality has with the various quickness sources the class has access to. I really love this. Give Phase Traversal 1-2 stacks, make SotM-Shiro scale stacks based off number targets hit, and reduce Brutality's strength, and I think the class would feel much more fun to fight against.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    I wonder if anet will read this

    Read? Yes.

    1. More animations might be good in 1v1, though it's hard to say with how cluttered player models can be. Would definitely be useless in teamfights, it doesn't matter how unique and telegraphed a player's animations are when they're drowning in particle effects. The cast bar thing sounds interesting though.

    2. I don't really have any strong feelings one way or the other regarding this suggestion, quickness hasn't struck me as that huge of a problem. On the other hand, that sounds like one of those changes that would be impossible to add only to pvp, and when it comes to changes like those, Anet will always favour PvE 100% of the time, make of that what you will.

    3. That'd immediately kill condi builds. The way I see it the problem with condi is a power creep tug of war between condi application and condi cleanse. We have way too many condi cleanse options to make stack-cleansing not immediately kill condi builds. The best option imo would be to tune down both condi application and condi cleanse, then we can start exploring such options.

    4. Reveal on cast sounds real good, I'm into it. The "outline when close to enemy"? Eeeeeh that thing's so easy to see you might aswell just make a radial reveal, not into it.

    5. This is a great suggestion, I'm all for it.

    6. "This leads to certain team comps being able to win fights they normally shouldn't win". People keep bringing up this as if it's an argument. You're using logic from other games to justify changes to GW2. Downed state is a mechanic, if a team won a fight because they managed their downed better than the enemy team, then they earned that win, it's not like they cheated because they made appropriate use of a mechanic that doesn't exist in other completely unrelated games. That being said, nerfs to rally and a balance pass on revive/downed skills are needed, but the mechanic itself is perfectly fine.

    7. If you can do this without touching PvE, yea sure. If not, Anet will prioritize PvE which means this will never happen.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1- I've got no real opinion on this one, that said, the most threatening skills tend to be the instant one, the one that already have a cast time tend to already be recognized by the player base. So I'm not sure another visual layer will really be usefull.
    2- I think you nail it and this is the "better" fix for Quickness.
    3- This downgrading the non stacking conditions. This change could have unforseen issue where "soft" conditions (chill, cripple, weakness, slow) end up feeling overwhelmingly strong in PvP environment just because they become "harder" to cleanse (or easier to cover if you prefer).
    4- I don't think it's the proper way to adress stealth. Imo the problem isn't stealth per se but the ability to burst out of stealth. In itseflf, it's fine that the thief can take cover in stealth and reset a fight at will.
    5- I tend to disagree with this one. I'd rather see toughness reduce hard CCs duration/effects. I believe interrupts are good for the game (especially in sPvP) while long CC duration are a cancer. Having more means to reduce the duration of CCs instead of plainly block them feel like the better way to adress the CC issue.
    6- Well, nope. Increase the penalty when being rallied, add visual clue (broken shield going from yellow to red like armor in PvE) about the penalty, maybe add some "weakening" effects lingering afterward.
    7- Personally I'd agree on this one as long as it's an sPvP only change.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I guess some optional cast bar on enemies would be nice. (People that don't like it could disable it in the options.) Might be interesting when a lot of people are fighting together and tons of effects are on the screen. Easier to pay attention to such a bar.

    Maybe balancing quickness so people can't have a lot of uptime ... would be enough. (I mean one big duration with huge CD or some small durations with shorter CD are okay for example.)

    For conditions I'd prefer if you manually could make some settings. Some small script-like settings option in the char screen somewhere. (Additional tab there.) Maybe some people would like to remove movement impairing conditions first. Highest stack first would make sense in most cases I guess. If ... condition removal were changed to removing a set amount of stacks ... that would be even better. Could make - if balanced towards conditoin applying on the attack skills - it balanced so removal would not get too overpowered.

    (Also blindness should not affect AoE skills. Weird if AoE kann miss lol. Imagine a guy being blinded while throwing a nuclear bomb and nobody getting killed because the attacker was blinded. Weird. :D)

    Stealth yeah ... I don't know about that. In most other MMORPG I like the stealth system more. Here in PvE it works just fine. In PvP ... I guess some classes are balanced around the current system and big changes might change the whole classe (like thief). I'd prefer if there was some "slow movement + backstab with one time high damage and then revealing the thief and him being able to go back into stealth only if out of view again" but that is not just possible here.

    Stunbreak + stability seems great. Would prevent stun-locking a bit.

    Downstate seems fine to me ... only rallying should be removed in PvP. I guess with the mini season 3 vs. 3 we'll see some play that also could use rallying. 1 downed 1 rezzing or killing (to help rally the other guy) and the 3rd one keeping the downed guy alive (keep enemy from stomping by using CC). Though 3 vs. 3 without rallying ... it would be a great idea to test "no rallying" here.

  • melody.2601melody.2601 Member ✭✭

    Mechanic change #3 - Change condition removal to prioritize higher stacks first, instead of by order of application

    highly against that, covering conditions is part of skilled gameplay, if you remove the ability to cover high stacked dmg conditions, you can pretty much remove condition at all.

    Other Stuff is fine tho.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    Disagree with pretty much all of it. It's using a sledgehammer to fix a few loose nails.

    1. Animations are still mostly reliable (turn on standard enemy models). Most of the problems come from: attacking from stealth, where you don't see half the animation, abilities under 0.75s cast time being not realistically avoidable, and quickness making animations faster than the 0.75s threshold. A few others are from glitched animations.

    2. Stacking quickness solves nothing. You'll eventually get builds which find a way to stack it higher, which gets us back to the same spot we're in now. Why not just nerf the boon in PvP then - it's a lot easier and caps it. But still doesn't fix it. The problem with quickness is that it's too plentiful, especially when paired with attacks which cross the 0.75s realistically dodge-able threshold. Quickness needs to be removed where appropriate and replaced with something else. Reaper should not have permanent quickness in shroud for example.

    3. The problem with condi is a handful of abilities which stack conditions too quickly. Burn guard has always been in that boat, but is also the easiest to remove from it. Fix the outliers, don't change the mechanic.

    4. I kinda like the idea if reveal on cast, but it puts thieves at a huge disadvantage against guardians due to Aegis. The rest is unnecessary. Thieves survive more because of evades and teleports than stealth. Damage from stealth problems happen from certain specific combos.

    5. No to stability on all stun breaks. Part of skill is using stun breaks well. It hampers CC-centric builds in small fights, but does nothing against heavy or targetted CC in large fights. The few abilities which have one 1s stack of stability on stun do so in order to allow the cast of the ability to finish because the stun break happens first.

    6. I don't see a major problem with downstate. Rez abilities means giving up a utility slot. The traits have been toned down. This seems to be a "like it or hate it" mechanic, and adjusting numbers won't fix that.

    7. This is a problem with a few specific skills and should be addressed that way.


    What I would look at globally is reverting Might and Vulnerability stacking changes which were made years ago. Instead of a single stack with longer duration, its many stacks with short duration. This allows burst builds to be very strong. Rev in particular can talk 20 vulnerability like it was nothing.

    I was going to write something then you summed it up here nicely. To be honest stealth is more of a problem with long duration, reduce it down for the cases where it's too long and prevent it stacking and most problems with stealth will go away. Of course you'd need to keep an eye on mesmer and thief as they are balanced at their core around stealth but a few CD decreases here or +1s extra stealth there would sort it out.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A lot of these suggestions sound good on paper, but would likely just reduce the amount of skilled play even more.
    1. As others have stated, the problem isnt animations, its visual noise from effects, and low cast times. Watching for specific animations is much more interesting and engaging that watching cast bars.
    2. Quickness itself isnt an issue, the problem is how abundant it is. Skills like time warp are very fair and well balanced. Skills like frenzy, stalwart speed, and reapers onslaught are much more questionable.
    3. Condi has always been a mess, its going to take a lot more than 1 simple change to balance it properly. This would also make passive cleansing far too powerful.
    4. I personally am in favor for reveal on cast, and transparent outlines while stealthed, but it would require significant changes to class mechanics and will never happen.
    5. This sounds like a good way to prevent stunlocking, but stunlocking itself isnt the main issue, the abundance of cc and its ease of use is. Adding stab to every stun break would cause a huge drop in skilled gameplay.
    6. Downstate is fine if people accept how its intended to work. It seems like most of the complaints come from losing the rally in close fights, or not being able to win an outnumbered fight vs a support class. It takes skill to recognize when a fight is worth committing to, and when its possible to secure a kill.
    7. This is the one that I agree with. Aoe has been made far too common with elite specs, and some skills should definitely get toned down.

  • Hirosama Nadasaki.6792Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2020

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    1. As others have stated, the problem isnt animations, its visual noise from effects, and low cast times.

    Considering Anet's past attempts to deal with visual noise (looking at you auras), I feel compelled to mention that the greatest culprit of visual noise are the persistent fields and rings left behind by abilties, aswell as the on-hit effects that take up an entire character model worth of space. In a game like GW2 where you can fire off multiple abilties back to back, stacking ability visual effects like that is too frequent. For reference, this doesn't happen as often in a game with equally if not more flashy abilities than GW2 like FFXIV, because in FF by the time you start another ability the particle animations of your previous cast already ended. It'd be best to deal with those problems first before looking at character animations.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That UI option would get confusingly cluttered by all the buttons presses, at about 4 button presses anytime I do anything it would be meaningless.

    It's a neat idea, I'm not against it but I don't see how much of a help it would be a higher levels. Being hand fed information that already exist more obviously. It should be more of a practice thing IMO.

    Personally BOONS, should display above enemies. Considerably the fresh ones, such as Stability or Resistance that are often first. The rest of it if necessary can be looked in more details checking the above UI. Honestly if Stability had a tell like Resistance, it would already be a step in the right direction.

    It's been often suggested in the past by me and others that all stunbreaks should share a 2 seconds stability (Only Revenant has to trait for it because of their stunbreak access), I still stand by that fact so people stop using so many CC's at once. It discourages CC spam altogether which will slow down the pace of the game a little but in a healthy way where it's not always AJNIDADUBANDUAN dead. IE, should you burst after your stun or make it a skill bait. Not only that but one stack of stability is /considerably/ much weaker than having 2 because multi-cc skills can go through those which is another aspect of balance in giving it all to stunbreak skills, it doesn't make someone completely immune to CC, only give them a chance to do something for a sec.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    I wonder if anet will read this

    I wonder if they read anything on these forums, anything substantial that is. Half of forum suggestions are unrealistic, especially at this point of the game, and really just gigantic walls of text. I don't really blame em! I don't know about you all, but in this digital age and in college I have enough walls of text to worry about!

    That being said:
    1. It's ok
    2. meh....
    3. I support it along with the following: that condition damage be dealt with degeneration levels, as in gw1, instead of ticks per second
    4. Nah...
    5. Better yet, cut down on CC period
    6. Nah...delete it...
    7. Yeah and also cut down on AoEs, make more single-target skills

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    5. This sounds like a good way to prevent stunlocking, but stunlocking itself isnt the main issue, the abundance of cc and its ease of use is. Adding stab to every stun break would cause a huge drop in skilled gameplay.

    if the stab is 1 or 2 seconds long how exactly is that going to "impact skilled gameplay"?

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    5. This sounds like a good way to prevent stunlocking, but stunlocking itself isnt the main issue, the abundance of cc and its ease of use is. Adding stab to every stun break would cause a huge drop in skilled gameplay.

    if the stab is 1 or 2 seconds long how exactly is that going to "impact skilled gameplay"?

    Some builds rely heavily on CC. Part of the skill is anticipating the stun break and reapplying a new CC. They also tend to rely on being able to CC their opponent to survive. 1sec if stability is enough to get off another cast, which can significantly hamper the attacker. It may not seem much, but it's a substantial buff.

  • Trigr.6481Trigr.6481 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    Mechanic change #1 - Improve the quality of animations, strongly consider adding a UI option that lets you see the cast bar of nearby enemies.

    • Personally I'm game for only having animations, however in crowded team fights having something like this would make it 100 times easier to see when big attacks are coming, so I'm kinda torn on what I'd rather have to be quite honest.

    Mechanic change #2 - Change Quickness to stack intensity, up to 5 times. Each stack would grant "increases attack and action speeds by 10%"

    • There's a few classes that quickness is given out like candy, so giving it stacks and nerfing it might be a interesting choice to see how it plays out.

    Mechanic change #3 - Change condition removal to prioritize higher stacks first, instead of by order of application

    • This would require a bit of work, not to mention new amulets to compensate for said changes. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, however conditions and power need to be equally viable, otherwise the game becomes stale very quickly. A-net tends to mix up the words "irrelevant" and "balance" when it comes to trying to fix something, which is quite scary thinking about this change. Because if they screw up, they wont fix said screw up for like a year after the fact.

    Mechanic change #4 - Make "reveal on cast" the default behavior for using damage abilities from stealth, as opposed to "reveal on hit". Make the stealth outline graphic that is normally only visible to allies also visible to enemies in PvP if they are within a radius of 300 unit range. Double the duration of most stealth skills.

    • I've been saying this for years, even made a video discussing this topic in detail, but yeah this is by far the best suggestion on your list. However doubling the duration of stealth for most abilities is overkill imo.

    Mechanic change#6 - Drastically nerf downstate in competitive game modes. Make it no longer increase health pool, give it double bleedout speed, and reduce the healing by 60%

    • This would give more impact to actually putting someone in downstate, but with this heavy of a nerf, stomping someone out would almost be trivial with these changes. This might be a bit too heavy handed, no health pool, double bleed out and reduced healing sounds like they would be cleaved out in half a second tops, making stomping a permanent thing of the past. Hell I doubt that you'd get a res signet off by the time they're perma dead lol.

    Mechanic change#7 - Give a balance pass toward reducing the radius on many AoE skills.

    • I'm not sure how easy it would be to adjust radius on a game wide scale just to be able to conform them specifically to SPVP.
  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exedore.6320 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    5. This sounds like a good way to prevent stunlocking, but stunlocking itself isnt the main issue, the abundance of cc and its ease of use is. Adding stab to every stun break would cause a huge drop in skilled gameplay.

    if the stab is 1 or 2 seconds long how exactly is that going to "impact skilled gameplay"?

    Some builds rely heavily on CC. Part of the skill is anticipating the stun break and reapplying a new CC. They also tend to rely on being able to CC their opponent to survive. 1sec if stability is enough to get off another cast, which can significantly hamper the attacker. It may not seem much, but it's a substantial buff.

    bruh, if 1 sec stab is a problem, then your build is using cc spam. you can adapt i'm sure.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bruh, if 1 sec stab is a problem, then your build is using cc spam. you can adapt i'm sure.

    Sounds like someone doesn't know how the game works.

    Put a 1sec stability on an end instant cast stun break and now my opponent can CC me back and I can't stop it, whereas they didn't di that before. It's pure power creep. CC heavy builds are valid as long as they also aren't heavy in damage and provide reasonable counter-play such as avoiding key abilities, using sun breaks at the right time, etc.

    The problem is a few CC abilities which don't have good counter-play, not CC in general.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exedore.6320 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bruh, if 1 sec stab is a problem, then your build is using cc spam. you can adapt i'm sure.

    Sounds like someone doesn't know how the game works.

    Put a 1sec stability on an end instant cast stun break and now my opponent can CC me back and I can't stop it, whereas they didn't di that before. It's pure power creep. CC heavy builds are valid as long as they also aren't heavy in damage and provide reasonable counter-play such as avoiding key abilities, using sun breaks at the right time, etc.

    The problem is a few CC abilities which don't have good counter-play, not CC in general.

    cc is def a problem in team fights. I would sacrifice the occasional stab cover cast for better team fight potential.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    4 has the same issue as every other suggestion about stealth. It hits the wrong thing. The problem with stealth is its usage out of combat to sneak up on and burst someone without them being aware of your presence. While in-combat stealth is weak and could use a slight buff to be actually useable for thief. Your suggestion destroys in-combat stealth, but makes out of combat stealth even better. Its awful.

  • Cerioth.7062Cerioth.7062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's one big issue with quickness change, and it is that if the intensity stacks, that means animations will be faster. That could make some stuff very messy very fast.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    Lots of good stuff in the OP. I agree with most of it, especially the cast bars part. Any new player I've tried to bring into this game always gets angry that they can't tell what the enemy is doing because everything looks the same to them.

  • Abraxxus.8971Abraxxus.8971 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you, OP. I agree that what is wrong with PvP at it's core is the mechanics of the system and not so much the skills/traits of the professions. Sure, there are some that are overpowered and need some tweaking, but the overall system needs to be changed.

    Bring back Ceara

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    So here is what I think of each suggestion... Trigger warning, I got tired of reading and became mean towards the end.

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    Mechanic change #1 - Improve the quality of animations, strongly consider adding a UI option that lets you see the cast bar of nearby enemies.

    Not having castbars is one of the central design points of GW2. They have to make a total 180 on this to be implemented. (They did with Cantha, so it's not totally impossible, it's just very very unlikely). Just remake/readjust animations so that important skills have flashy ones, and the not so important ones don't cover half of the map (I'm looking at you renegade summons).

    Mechanic change #2 - Change Quickness to stack intensity, up to 5 times. Each stack would grant "increases attack and action speeds by 10%"
    Having quickness stack intensity means a lot of quicknesss granting skills like elixir U and Phase traversal can now be properly balanced by making them grant only 2 stacks in PvP for +20% speed. Still useful, but a lot less oppressive for damage spikes and a lot less enabling of the "save everything for quickness lol" playstyle.

    That would be an insane nerf to quickness. To make quickness still a viable boon worth playing with, there would be reworks needed all around. Didn't Morpheus say at the start of your post that no classes need to be touched upon?

    Mechanic change #3 - Change condition removal to prioritize higher stacks first, instead of by order of application

    And this change would eviscerate all condibuilds that focus on stacking 1 or 2 specific condition, but have way less of an effect on those with more diverse condi output. Another round of rework needed if this get's implemented, because the balance would be thrown off real bad.

    Mechanic change #4 - Make "reveal on cast" the default behavior for using damage abilities from stealth, as opposed to "reveal on hit". Make the stealth outline graphic that is normally only visible to allies also visible to enemies in PvP if they are within a radius of 300 unit range. Double the duration of most stealth skills.

    The current mechanics of how stealth works in GW2 completely lack any meaningful interaction or counterplay. It can infinitely reset fights. It can be used to make any animation invisible and therefore carry with it the same design problems of instant cast skills. It can be used as a get out of jail free or an engage. And the biggest problem of all, it allows mistakes to go unpunished. Say you are stealthed playing a P/P thief and you shoot a guardian using Shield 5. Guess what? This doesn't reveal you since your attack didn't hit and was blocked by shield 5s projectile block effect. Just one of many of the silly mechanical issues that comes with reveal on hit instead of on attack. This is not good PvP game design. This makes stealth reliant builds neither fun to play as ( unless you don't feel insulted by the blatant hand-holding ) nor fun to play against.

    Most other PvP games usually have built in restrictions to stealth that require the use to actually require some thought and have some sort of counter to them. Such as making stealth visible within a certain distance, putting hit confirm on stealthed players, or putting a delay between unstealthing when can you can attack. GW2 has none of these restrictions, leading to stealth being a mechanic that is almost impossible to balance right. This proposed change would make stealth last longer, but have restriction in place to prevent the abuse/mindless gameplay that the current system enables.

    Good luck landing a Backstab while basicly being visible... As the one "being attacked" you can straight up go on the offensive, after all you see the enemy. Also "reveal on cast" will be a huge nerf to any stealth using build on top of this: 4 seconds of reveal for nothing is really punishing. Also tracking damage numbers... what? So you cannot go close to melee range without being seen, you cannot take the aegis off of a guardian without revealing yourself, and if thats not enough, they can use the ticking damage numbers of something as benign as one stack of bleeding to see where you're hiding, no matter how far you run.
    Do you honestly think stealth as a mechanic could be useful for ANYTHING like this? You clearly do, as your Morpheus just told us that no class reworks are necesseary.... Hard pass. This section was unbeliveably bad.

    Mechanic change #5 - Add roughly 2 seconds of stability to most stunbreaks in the game, but only if the ability succesfully breaks a stun similar to how the Revenant trait "Glaring resolve" works.

    This is your only point worth considering. Stunbreaking often has 0 effect when you get CC-d 2-3 times every second. This could be a potential solution(amongs many other) to the CC epidemic. 1/7 lets go!

    Mechanic change#6 - Drastically nerf downstate in competitive game modes. Make it no longer increase health pool, give it double bleedout speed, and reduce the healing by 60%

    No. You're overdoing it with the nerfs, this is basicly the deletion of downstate from the game. It could no longer be the tactical tool it is now. Dumbing down the game is bad.

    Mechanic change#7 - Give a balance pass toward reducing the radius on many AoE skills.

    This one is a bit controversial because it could make PvE players sad, but the reality is GW2 has too many skills that hit the entire point, and too many balance changes that actively encourage this sort of playstyle.

    Another rework needed, yay. Also disagree, AoE denial is a tactical tool that some builds must have access to, it's needed for several playstyles. You could argue about X or Y builds are overdoing it, in need of being toned down, which could maybe involve one or two skills getting a radius reduction but... a game wide radius reduction on AoE? No thanks.

    I appreciate the time you took to type all this out but... most of your proposed changes would just hurt the gamemode.

  • Exedore.6320Exedore.6320 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    bruh, if 1 sec stab is a problem, then your build is using cc spam. you can adapt i'm sure.

    Sounds like someone doesn't know how the game works.

    Put a 1sec stability on an end instant cast stun break and now my opponent can CC me back and I can't stop it, whereas they didn't di that before. It's pure power creep. CC heavy builds are valid as long as they also aren't heavy in damage and provide reasonable counter-play such as avoiding key abilities, using sun breaks at the right time, etc.

    The problem is a few CC abilities which don't have good counter-play, not CC in general.

    cc is def a problem in team fights. I would sacrifice the occasional stab cover cast for better team fight potential.

    The problem is that you're making the abilities far too strong in small scale fights in a poor attempt to modify teamfights.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    The problem is that you're making the abilities far too strong in small scale fights in a poor attempt to modify teamfights.

    nah I think you're overreacting. 2 stun breaks with stab on a pretty decent cd isn't going to break the system, and having that extra time to dodge or use a heal would do wonders for team fights.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First off I should point out that this thread is more about calling out mechanics as the main culprit of balance problems currently in the game, rather than "numbers nerfs" that we keep getting. A lot of these issues could probably be fixed by a different method, what I gave for each issue is just one of many possible solutions.

    On #1 / animations-

    The cast icon would only be visible to the target you have selected, but really cast-bars are just one thing they could do. The real problem is too many skills that don't look much different than an auto attack, or animations that don't play until the skill is already done casting.

    On #2 / Quickness- @Cerioth.7062

    The maximum stacks of quickness would provide the exact same buff that quickness currently grants. The point of the rework is to nerf quickness without deleting it from PvE. And no, it would not be an overnerf to quickness. Quickness in it's current form is just vastly boosted and overperforming in all possible ways it can overperform. 2 stacks of quickness for +20% action speed would still be very useful.

    On #3 / Condi cleansing @AliamRationem.5172 @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 @Exedore.6320

    Yeah, I figured this suggestion would get the most pushback and yes it does pretty much make any build that solely relies on conditions nonviable. But that's kind of the point. The way condi currently works as a stat just can't be reasonably balanced without resulting in condi-bunkers, and condi-bunkers have always been a thorn in the side of GW2 balance forever. Not once has a condi bunker ever added anything of value to the meta. But they have on more than one occasion ruined the game, and arguably bunker builds in general are to blame for the loss of esports league.

    An alternative solution would be a major balance pass that drastically reduces the duration of all condis in competitive game modes, and then reintroducing expertise as a stat so that condi builds would require condi+expertise for best potential. Other solutions include a balance pass that re-evaluates each and every passive condi trait and asks the question "does this need to be in the game?" ( spoilers: the answer for at least half of them is 'probably not' )

    On #4 / Stealth @UNOwen.7132 @Bazsi.2734

    There seems to be a strange misconception some people have about stealth being bad in-combat. This is only true until you realize that one of the biggest benefits that stealth grants in this game is that it is a de-target that prevents subsequent re-target. This makes stealth extremely useful mid combat when you know how to use it, as it can actually interrupt many skills being cast on you that require a target. It's basically a psuedo evade.

    My suggestions towards stealth do not remove this de-target functionality. Even the part with the outline graphic being visible withing 300 range, this just means a visible animation. I did not say you could target people in stealth. In my idea, stealthed players would always remain untargettable and their names hidden until actually revealed. The goal is to make stealth more interactive ( since hunting down a stealthed player by trying to find their animation would give some level of awareness to the game ) and to reduce the efficiency of "lol I instant cast 90% of your health in one hit from stealth" builds.

    On #5 / Stab on stunbreak. @Exedore.6320

    Remember, there is a planet-sized difference between having stability on stunbreak, and having stability on a successful stun break. The former gives on demand stab whenever you want it and thus adds to the "pop stab spam abilities" problem, the latter does not and really only creates a problem for people who are spamming multiple CCs in a row.

    On #6 / Downstate. @Paradoxoglanis.1904

    Some people think downstate is fine. Others want to completely remove the mechanic from the game. ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/105940/downstate-has-got-to-go#latest )

    The thing I consider bad about downstate is that the way it currently works it gives an unneeded advantage to team comps with tons of bunkers and support. All you need to do to res someone is be tanky, which is very easy to do. Nerfing the amount of healing done to it and the amount of health it has is a sort of compromise. It leaves downstate in the game, with just less of an impact and less of a "Team A wins because they have a support that insta-resses" issue.

    On # 7 / AoE radius.

    Didn't really notice anyone disagreeing here, and I'm not too surprised. Power creep in this direction is out of control. Another possible psuedo-solution is increasing the sizes of points but that trades one issue for another.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Exedore.6320 said:
    The problem is that you're making the abilities far too strong in small scale fights in a poor attempt to modify teamfights.

    nah I think you're overreacting. 2 stun breaks with stab on a pretty decent cd isn't going to break the system, and having that extra time to dodge or use a heal would do wonders for team fights.

    can you immagine fighting ranger? 2x low cd stun removing tools that give stability on top of heroic that gives stability, legit unable to be controlled, 2s is way too long.
    make it 2 stacks for 0,25s, if you wanna avoid followup CC use dodges/other tools

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    First off I should point out that this thread is more about calling out mechanics as the main culprit of balance problems currently in the game, rather than "numbers nerfs" that we keep getting. A lot of these issues could probably be fixed by a different method, what I gave for each issue is just one of many possible solutions.

    On #4 / Stealth @UNOwen.7132 @Bazsi.2734

    There seems to be a strange misconception some people have about stealth being bad in-combat. This is only true until you realize that one of the biggest benefits that stealth grants in this game is that it is a de-target that prevents subsequent re-target. This makes stealth extremely useful mid combat when you know how to use it, as it can actually interrupt many skills being cast on you that require a target. It's basically a psuedo evade.

    Its not a misconception, its the simple truth. First, it only prevents further targetting. Any skill launched before you fully enter stealth will continue to hit you until said skill ends. So a Rapid Fire started just before you stealth up will keep hitting you for the fully 2.5 seconds. Second, in order to access stealth mid-combat, you have to lock yourself in long and obvious animations that the enemy can trivially easily punish. Whether thats by CCing you and then killing you, or just killing you. And lastly, even if somehow you were able to avoid the first 2, you will still be tracked through cleave and AoE skills. While you are unable to fight back. Its not even remotely close to a pseudo evade.

    My suggestions towards stealth do not remove this de-target functionality. Even the part with the outline graphic being visible withing 300 range, this just means a visible animation. I did not say you could target people in stealth. In my idea, stealthed players would always remain untargettable and their names hidden until actually revealed. The goal is to make stealth more interactive ( since hunting down a stealthed player by trying to find their animation would give some level of awareness to the game ) and to reduce the efficiency of "lol I instant cast 90% of your health in one hit from stealth" builds.

    That doesnt matter. You basically prevent melee stealth attacks from ever functioning, and you nerf in-combat stealth. While "lol I instant cast 90% of your health in one hit from stealth" is basically untouched (not that it really exists nowadays).

  • @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    On #3 / Condi cleansing @AliamRationem.5172 @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 @Exedore.6320

    Yeah, I figured this suggestion would get the most pushback and yes it does pretty much make any build that solely relies on conditions nonviable. But that's kind of the point. The way condi currently works as a stat just can't be reasonably balanced without resulting in condi-bunkers, and condi-bunkers have always been a thorn in the side of GW2 balance forever. Not once has a condi bunker ever added anything of value to the meta. But they have on more than one occasion ruined the game, and arguably bunker builds in general are to blame for the loss of esports league.

    An alternative solution would be a major balance pass that drastically reduces the duration of all condis in competitive game modes, and then reintroducing expertise as a stat so that condi builds would require condi+expertise for best potential. Other solutions include a balance pass that re-evaluates each and every passive condi trait and asks the question "does this need to be in the game?" ( spoilers: the answer for at least half of them is 'probably not' )

    I'll continue to defend the value of bunker builds as a viable strategy, and that most of bunker build complaints come not from bunker build themselves, but from the conquest game mode and how it works.
    Aside from that, a simpler and less troublesome solution to your condi problem would to simply reduce the coefficient for condis, so you need more condition damage stat to deal as much damage, thus making condi bunkers less damaging and full condi builds more reasonable. Could even throw condi builds a bone and increase condi duration as you reduce the damage coefficient, to keep in line with the "damage over time" theme that condis were supposed to be.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    On #3 / Condi cleansing @AliamRationem.5172 @Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 @Exedore.6320

    Yeah, I figured this suggestion would get the most pushback and yes it does pretty much make any build that solely relies on conditions nonviable. But that's kind of the point. The way condi currently works as a stat just can't be reasonably balanced without resulting in condi-bunkers, and condi-bunkers have always been a thorn in the side of GW2 balance forever. Not once has a condi bunker ever added anything of value to the meta. But they have on more than one occasion ruined the game, and arguably bunker builds in general are to blame for the loss of esports league.

    An alternative solution would be a major balance pass that drastically reduces the duration of all condis in competitive game modes, and then reintroducing expertise as a stat so that condi builds would require condi+expertise for best potential. Other solutions include a balance pass that re-evaluates each and every passive condi trait and asks the question "does this need to be in the game?" ( spoilers: the answer for at least half of them is 'probably not' )

    I'll continue to defend the value of bunker builds as a viable strategy, and that most of bunker build complaints come not from bunker build themselves, but from the conquest game mode and how it works.
    Aside from that, a simpler and less troublesome solution to your condi problem would to simply reduce the coefficient for condis, so you need more condition damage stat to deal as much damage, thus making condi bunkers less damaging and full condi builds more reasonable. Could even throw condi builds a bone and increase condi duration as you reduce the damage coefficient, to keep in line with the "damage over time" theme that condis were supposed to be.

    You can't "simply" reduce coefficients for condi. This is not PvE, where enemies don't cleanse. Pressure matters and condi builds already struggle to pressure due to cleansing as it is. This is, in part, why condi builds must run bunker stats. The other part of it is that power/condi hybrid deals less damage than either power or condi by themselves, which would need to be fixed in order for these types of plans to work. The usual suggestion for handling this is to tone condi down to a supplemental form of damage and more or less remove cleansing. And the same people will complain about "passive" gameplay as conditions end up wearing them down in attrition battles against bunker builds.

    Round and round we go. This is just a waste of time.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah the aura animations need to be redone again, for sure. Also magnetic wave has no animation for when it is engaged which is really bad for a competitive standpoint. Also, with stealth being a mechanic in the game, I'm not sure the global cast bars would be fairly implemented.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    But yes, reducing the radius of a lot of AoEs would be healthy, especially because symbol guards and renegades exist. Also, I'm okay with quickness scaling if Slow scales as well.

  • KeepinItReal.9086KeepinItReal.9086 Member ✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    This guy needs to join to PVP balance team and get paid for his solution. He fixed pvp with 1 thread once and for all.
    And for all the repliers, dont fix a single thing he said, its all pin to the point

    anet, observe and apply, thank you.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    can you immagine fighting ranger? 2x low cd stun removing tools that give stability on top of heroic that gives stability, legit unable to be controlled, 2s is way too long.
    make it 2 stacks for 0,25s, if you wanna avoid followup CC use dodges/other tools

    sure. the duration really doesn't matter as long as you can get off a dodge.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    First off I should point out that this thread is more about calling out mechanics as the main culprit of balance problems currently in the game, rather than "numbers nerfs" that we keep getting. A lot of these issues could probably be fixed by a different method, what I gave for each issue is just one of many possible solutions.

    On #4 / Stealth @UNOwen.7132 @Bazsi.2734

    There seems to be a strange misconception some people have about stealth being bad in-combat. This is only true until you realize that one of the biggest benefits that stealth grants in this game is that it is a de-target that prevents subsequent re-target. This makes stealth extremely useful mid combat when you know how to use it, as it can actually interrupt many skills being cast on you that require a target. It's basically a psuedo evade.

    My suggestions towards stealth do not remove this de-target functionality. Even the part with the outline graphic being visible withing 300 range, this just means a visible animation. I did not say you could target people in stealth. In my idea, stealthed players would always remain untargettable and their names hidden until actually revealed. The goal is to make stealth more interactive ( since hunting down a stealthed player by trying to find their animation would give some level of awareness to the game ) and to reduce the efficiency of "lol I instant cast 90% of your health in one hit from stealth" builds.

    I don't know why you tagged me, as this isn't really an answer to me. But I'd like to add that stealthing interrupts 1 skill to my knowledge:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unrelenting_Assault - (smokescale has basicly a copy of this skill)

    Pointing out how stealth would still retain SOME of its previous perks is irrelevant to my concerns. The game is balanced around a stealth that makes you completely invisible, and does not break unless you deal direct damage to an enemy target. You want to upset that balance with no compensation mentioned.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    condi builds are boosted by flat out having superior stats as there is very little reason for them not to monkey-up with rabid/sage/etc.
    This means that in order to do optimal damage as condi, you could no longer get away with running nonsense such as "Rabid amulet + every defensive trait in the book" and would instead have to run Sinister/Destroyer just like how power builds are forced to run Berserker for optimal damage. This has been a serious balance problem in GW2 for a very long time. Power builds need all Power/Precision/Ferocity to work. Condi builds just need Condition damage, leading to the problem of "Condi + Vitality/Toughness/Healing amulut + defensive traits / weapons" being chosen. This is why "Condi bunker" builds in GW2 have always been very monkey / low skill low effort high reward and why every condi meta always ends up feeling extremely degenerate and spammy.

    This alone states you know nothing of this game and just want something new to play with. Just take a break. But here is a mythbusters episode:

    • Conditions scale badly with condition damage, unless you stack a lot of them. Confusion's DoT doesn't even scale with condition damage, it always does 10 damage per second flat.
    • Most of the condi amulets in this game have power which means they are hybrid. Condi thief does pretty decent initial power damage because carrion is just 100 power less from demo/mara and d/p 3 has a 1.5 coefficient. Burn guard does decent damage because for some reason torch 4 throw has 1.5 coefficient.
    • There is no "1200 condition damage, 900 toughness, 900 vitality" amulet btw, there is only rabid. I lol'd at sage, it's like avatar amulet. Reminder: 0 ferocity crit chance is a 1.5 modifier.
    • If condi was bad people would cry about toughness amulets.

    I'm tired of explaining just how wrong this "one stat" thing is.

  • omgdracula.6345omgdracula.6345 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2020

    The stealth change is probably one of the worst things I have read on the forums. I will use WoW as an example. Stealth has the near you detection etc because it is free to use whenever with an unlimited amount of time until you decide to break it. Stealth in GW2 is not free. As a thief you have to spend initiative to stack it or burn a cooldown. Your change would mean that stealth could be broken by an enemy trait randomly blocking while fighting a teammate. With your change stealth would not be worth using at all. That on top of skill lag would be horrid and so clunky.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    This alone states you know nothing of this game and just want something new to play with. Just take a break. But here is a mythbusters episode:

    • Conditions scale badly with condition damage, unless you stack a lot of them. Confusion's DoT doesn't even scale with condition damage, it always does 10 damage per second flat.

    I legitimately cannot tell if you are trolling.

    The entire point of confusion is that it deals more damage with skill usage than the DoT. Of course the DoT is bad. It's supposed to be bad. The DoT doesn't scale because it only exists as a visual indicator that you have confusion on you.

    The damage on skill activation however, absolutely does scale with condition damage.

    Damage on skill activation (Player):

    (0.0975 * Condition Damage) + (0.575 * Level) + 3.5 damage per stack.
    (0.0975 * Condition Damage) + 49.5 damage per stack.
    

    You will do 3x more damage with a 1200 condi amulet. Unless you have a very weird concept of what "bad scaling" is, as you didn't objectively define what you meant by that, 300% is not "bad scaling".

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2020

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    Damage on skill activation (Player):

    (0.0975 * Condition Damage) + (0.575 * Level) + 3.5 damage per stack.
    (0.0975 * Condition Damage) + 49.5 damage per stack.
    

    Ah yes the biggest coefficient condition.

    You will do 3x more damage with a 1200 condi amulet. Unless you have a very weird concept of what "bad scaling" is, as you didn't objectively define what you meant by that, 300% is not "bad scaling".

    Why are you even looking at percentages? Is your health a percentage? Base damages of most conditions are very low. At the end of the day, 1 confusion will do a grand total of 166damage (1200*0.0975 + 49) on skill use. Normally it will do 49 damage. 1200 condition damage increased it by 117 damage. My main problem with conditions is, they are too easily stackable and condi skills have way too less animation.

    1000 power 0 ferocity crit maul also does 300% more damage without other modifiers but as I said, our healths aren't percentages. The meaningful part is raw damage.