Why aren't WvW trolls punished? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why aren't WvW trolls punished?

Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

I really don't care about the details but apparently the server we're currently linked with has some internal drama where a player is trying to "lobby" the server into changing some rule they have on their Teamspeak server. This "lobbying" is done in the form of randomly pulling EWPs, wasting mats by building tons of trebs right there inside the supply depot, building siege on top of tactics so they're difficult to pull, and so on.

Apparently, none of that behavior is against the rules. Why is that so? I understand that Anet might not want to get involved in the drama among the player base, but the way some players end up behaving is just anti-social and hurts the experience of all players on the server plus the linked server, when the player only has some issue with a few key people.

Example of trolling:

<1

Comments

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That's a real kitten move whoever did that..

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That is not trolling, that is having more accounts and trying to help your friends on the other server :/ In T1 EU you see it all the time..

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    That is not trolling, that is having more accounts and trying to help your friends on the other server :/ In T1 EU you see it all the time..

    Of course that's also always a possibility, and should be all the more reason for punishing a player. In our current situation I actually had a serious talk with the player pulling off things like this (I assume that what I screenshotted above was also his doing) and he told me all about these issues he has with some leading figure on their server and apparently does this as a form of protest...

    Either way there should be rules against this sort of behavior. There's no justification for it.

  • HAsAsIN.6724HAsAsIN.6724 Member ✭✭

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    I really don't care about the details but apparently the server we're currently linked with has some internal drama where a player is trying to "lobby" the server into changing some rule they have on their Teamspeak server. This "lobbying" is done in the form of randomly pulling EWPs, wasting mats by building tons of trebs right there inside the supply depot, building siege on top of tactics so they're difficult to pull, and so on.

    Apparently, none of that behavior is against the rules. Why is that so? I understand that Anet might not want to get involved in the drama among the player base, but the way some players end up behaving is just anti-social and hurts the experience of all players on the server plus the linked server, when the player only has some issue with a few key people.

    Example of trolling:

    you just have to be precise on your clicking the appriopriate label. so you need to turn on the option to display all object names/labels.

  • Bossun.2046Bossun.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    welcome to gw2, where botting, trolling and harassment brings little to no punishment...

    I havent seen something like that happen much at all, which should make it easier to find the perpetrator i guess. If someone looked for them...

    sugoi monogatari oniichan

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    Sucks that an individual can ruin the game for all

    Yeah especially the individuals who can censor people!

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:
    They are too busy censoring the forums to care about what happens in game. Especially wvw.

    Haha. Ah my skin of iron

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Thelrok.7354Thelrok.7354 Member ✭✭

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    That is not trolling, that is having more accounts and trying to help your friends on the other server :/ In T1 EU you see it all the time..

    Of course that's also always a possibility, and should be all the more reason for punishing a player. In our current situation I actually had a serious talk with the player pulling off things like this (I assume that what I screenshotted above was also his doing) and he told me all about these issues he has with some leading figure on their server and apparently does this as a form of protest...

    Either way there should be rules against this sort of behavior. There's no justification for it.

    Technically, there are rules against this sort of behavior, they just aren't enforced. A simple solution that would be effective is to just IP/hardware ban every account that does this kind of thing or at least disabling the ability of people who troll to queue for WvW (not on a per-account basis but on a per-IP basis). It would also ease the burden on support, because they'd have less tickets to deal with from repeat offenders.

    Unfortunately, it will never happen. These problems have existed since the game released. There's no reason for anyone to fear punishment from anet for ruining other people's experience out of spite. Worst case scenario is a throw away account gets a short temp ban if they do something extremely egregious.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:
    They are too busy making sure that the forums are a fun and safe place for everyone to care about what happens in game. Especially wvw.

    This ^

    I could elaborate more on the forum part, but I better not. I supposed sabotaging in game is considered game content?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    That is not trolling, that is having more accounts and trying to help your friends on the other server :/ In T1 EU you see it all the time..

    Of course that's also always a possibility, and should be all the more reason for punishing a player. In our current situation I actually had a serious talk with the player pulling off things like this (I assume that what I screenshotted above was also his doing) and he told me all about these issues he has with some leading figure on their server and apparently does this as a form of protest...

    Either way there should be rules against this sort of behavior. There's no justification for it.

    Technically, there are rules against this sort of behavior, they just aren't enforced. A simple solution that would be effective is to just IP/hardware ban every account that does this kind of thing or at least disabling the ability of people who troll to queue for WvW (not on a per-account basis but on a per-IP basis). It would also ease the burden on support, because they'd have less tickets to deal with from repeat offenders.

    Unfortunately, it will never happen. These problems have existed since the game released. There's no reason for anyone to fear punishment from anet for ruining other people's experience out of spite. Worst case scenario is a throw away account gets a short temp ban if they do something extremely egregious.

    Ip ban is too much. Such should be reserved to hackers

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Thelrok.7354Thelrok.7354 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    That is not trolling, that is having more accounts and trying to help your friends on the other server :/ In T1 EU you see it all the time..

    Of course that's also always a possibility, and should be all the more reason for punishing a player. In our current situation I actually had a serious talk with the player pulling off things like this (I assume that what I screenshotted above was also his doing) and he told me all about these issues he has with some leading figure on their server and apparently does this as a form of protest...

    Either way there should be rules against this sort of behavior. There's no justification for it.

    Technically, there are rules against this sort of behavior, they just aren't enforced. A simple solution that would be effective is to just IP/hardware ban every account that does this kind of thing or at least disabling the ability of people who troll to queue for WvW (not on a per-account basis but on a per-IP basis). It would also ease the burden on support, because they'd have less tickets to deal with from repeat offenders.

    Unfortunately, it will never happen. These problems have existed since the game released. There's no reason for anyone to fear punishment from anet for ruining other people's experience out of spite. Worst case scenario is a throw away account gets a short temp ban if they do something extremely egregious.

    Ip ban is too much. Such should be reserved to hackers

    If you just account ban, you limit your ban to the offending accounts, which are just throw aways. It doesn't actually solve anything. An IP ban gives actual punishment because, you know, you can't just log in on a different account and keep doing it with zero risk to the primary account. Additionally, I'd argue exploiting the system in this manner is on-par with hacking in severity because it ruins the experience and creates an unfair advantage with zero ability to combat this kind of behavior. It accomplishes everything that hacking does.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet could make a small area around tactivators restricted from siege drop . They have done this to many areas that used to allow siege drop. They could also make it so only one tactivator can be pulled by the same character at a time until a time period elapses .

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Thelrok.7354Thelrok.7354 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope. Asking for it suggests otherwise.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope.

    Can you link :3 or put a screen shot?

    Because that's pvp seems like spvp

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    And here youre wrong. Thing you quoted is about sPvP, not WvW.

    in any form of match manipulation
    Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder
    actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching

    Match manipulation, leeching, rankings and ratings of the ladder exist in sPvP, not WvW. WvW is not sPvP, and sPvP is not WvW ;)

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Thelrok.7354Thelrok.7354 Member ✭✭

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    And here youre wrong. Thing you quoted is about sPvP, not WvW.

    in any form of match manipulation
    Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder
    actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching

    Match manipulation, leeching, rankings and ratings of the ladder exist in sPvP, not WvW. WvW is not sPvP, and sPvP is not WvW ;)

    Ahh, you're a lawyer, I see. I guess I've been defeated by restricting intentionally broad terminology to what is convenient for one's purpose.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope.

    Can you link :3 or put a screen shot?

    Because that's pvp seems like spvp

    You said it seems like sPvP. But it's clearly not sPvP. It does not say "Structured Player-vs-Player". They said "PvP gameplay". Are you implying that WvW does not contain any PvP gameplay?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope.

    Can you link :3 or put a screen shot?

    Because that's pvp seems like spvp

    You said it seems like sPvP. But it's clearly not sPvP. It does not say "Structured Player-vs-Player". They said "PvP gameplay". Are you implying that WvW does not contain any PvP gameplay?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

    Well based on 22 all who afk are breaching terms bro. For pip s.

    Also there's no ladder in wvw because there is no tournament.

    Also actively participating this is a catch all. You afk, you breach. You gvg you breach. You do right club you breach.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Thelrok.7354Thelrok.7354 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope.

    Can you link :3 or put a screen shot?

    Because that's pvp seems like spvp

    You said it seems like sPvP. But it's clearly not sPvP. It does not say "Structured Player-vs-Player". They said "PvP gameplay". Are you implying that WvW does not contain any PvP gameplay?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

    Well based on 22 all who afk are breaching terms bro. For pip s.

    Also there's no ladder in wvw because there is no tournament.

    Also actively participating this is a catch all. You afk, you breach. You gvg you breach. You do right club you breach.

    I mean, it is if the server is full. Otherwise, it isn't because you aren't taking the place of someone who is actually trying to play. Also, there is a ladder. There is literally a WvW leaderboard and people involved pay attention to world rankings. That's also not important because it's an OR. Manipulating a match is enough, but you're probably going to say that weekly "matchups" aren't a "match". To that, I'm not sure if it's hilarious or sad that you actually think that.

    There are other clauses within the terms of service that could be applied to any of this kind of behavior. They are written intentionally broad and just because something you like isn't explicitly defined, that doesn't mean it isn't covered especially in cases where it is damaging to other people's experience and Guild Wars as a brand.

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    It's weird seeing people try to defend anti-social behavior by going all lawyer on the official rules. Reminds me of the way little children try to argue sometimes, being intentionally obtuse and pretending not to get the actual point of what's being said. :-)

    Note this part of the Code of Conduct:

    Even when not specified, NC Interactive, Inc. (“NCsoft”) and ArenaNet, Inc. (“ArenaNet”) have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception. We reserve the right, in our sole and absolute discretion, to change, modify, add or remove portions of these Rules of Conduct at any time.

    In plain English, this means Anet can do whatever the heck they want. They could decide to ban you permanently for typing "I'm a poo poo head" in chat if they wanted to. As such, pleading Anet to punish a behavior which was not being regularly punished so far is perfectly legit. If enough people agreed that this is a serious issue, I would hope that they listen.

    That being said, since intention of match manipulation is difficult to prove, IMO an escalating series of warnings/bans on the offending account only would be the right way to go, nothing super strong like an IP/client ban. (How will you do that with dynamic and shared IPs anyway. It's technically impossible.) First infraction: lightly worded warning. Second: stronger worded warning. Third: one week WvW ban. Fourth: one month WvW ban. Fifth: one year WvW ban. This way the possibility of causing disproportionate harm to a player who was just being stupid is practically eliminated, and alt accounts used for WvW trolling are still successfully barred from continuing the harmful behavior.

    I hope Anet reads this, though I don't have my hopes high as they probably have lots of other important stuff to tend to.

  • Zepoolpe.9217Zepoolpe.9217 Member ✭✭

    Guys .. no need to check if it's breaching this or that rule.
    it's all fine to try to see if it falls under the match manipulation rule or not (it does not) or the harrassement (this could stick, but it's kind of a long stretch)
    (FYI harrassement rule is "While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players")

    The fact of the matter is that aNet does not really care, even if it is breaching a rule.
    The best example is cheating: many have reported cheaters and exploits for ages, with pics and vids, and yet many of the exploits are still here (many towers and keep are still accessible via shadowsteps or mount exploits) and many cheaters are still playing.
    So if that is still an issue, what makes you think that they will do something about a troll?

    As long you don't have a massive outcry or it does not threaten their end-goal (money), they'll advance on these topics at the pace of an asthmatic slug.

  • HAsAsIN.6724HAsAsIN.6724 Member ✭✭
    edited May 23, 2020

    have you ever heard of 1/2 year suspension dealt consecutively with 1 -2 months in between because the account owner made the WvW chat like his twitter?

    coz thing is that some guys with their gung gang will bait you using concealed lexical bait and if they fail with that, will go to the point that what they say is also eligible for a suspension and you react with blunt words and the mod will focus on you by highlighting the "cuss" words and not even bothering on how did that happen and why did you say that.

    meaning they don't even weigh both sides, not bothering to read the whole log and just suspend you by word or phrase picking. and you log with your other account and them and their gung gang are still there. and you log after 3 days and yes, they're still there.

    ye. some kind of hocus pocus going on there. i don't think they are moderating properly.

    and if you kitten send them to law school with that mentality, 1/2 year tops for sure and they'll drop out.

  • Zepoolpe.9217Zepoolpe.9217 Member ✭✭

    Oh yes .. screw in chat or post a negative comment on forum and at best you have a warning and your so-called offense post is removed very quickly but cheat, exploit and suchlikes and you can do it for ages before they react...
    Priorities, right?

  • HAsAsIN.6724HAsAsIN.6724 Member ✭✭

    @Zepoolpe.9217 said:
    Oh yes .. screw in chat or post a negative comment on forum and at best you have a warning and your so-called offense post is removed very quickly but cheat, exploit and suchlikes and you can do it for ages before they react...
    Priorities, right?

    looks like data are more offensively dangerous and hit the brain harder than executables..

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Thelrok.7354 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    Punished for what? Playing the game?
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    Show me in code of conduct part that says ppl cant drop and build balistas on tactivators.
    If I were you, I wouldnt expect any changes to ANets definition of trolling and the way to deal with them any time soon, since their definition of censorship is whatever mods (that are not controlled by any higher instance btw) find accusing and unhealthy for community :)

    right here:

    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.

    Can you link the source ?

    It's the Code of Conduct, which you have read and agreed to. At least, I'd hope.

    Can you link :3 or put a screen shot?

    Because that's pvp seems like spvp

    You said it seems like sPvP. But it's clearly not sPvP. It does not say "Structured Player-vs-Player". They said "PvP gameplay". Are you implying that WvW does not contain any PvP gameplay?

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

    Well based on 22 all who afk are breaching terms bro. For pip s.

    Also there's no ladder in wvw because there is no tournament.

    Also actively participating this is a catch all. You afk, you breach. You gvg you breach. You do right club you breach.

    I mean, it is if the server is full. Otherwise, it isn't because you aren't taking the place of someone who is actually trying to play. Also, there is a ladder. There is literally a WvW leaderboard and people involved pay attention to world rankings. That's also not important because it's an OR. Manipulating a match is enough, but you're probably going to say that weekly "matchups" aren't a "match". To that, I'm not sure if it's hilarious or sad that you actually think that.

    There are other clauses within the terms of service that could be applied to any of this kind of behavior. They are written intentionally broad and just because something you like isn't explicitly defined, that doesn't mean it isn't covered especially in cases where it is damaging to other people's experience and Guild Wars as a brand.

    They need to express some stuff so we don't get in trouble and enjoy the game as we please because there's no tournaments right now

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    I really don't care about the details but apparently the server we're currently linked with has some internal drama where a player is trying to "lobby" the server into changing some rule they have on their Teamspeak server. This "lobbying" is done in the form of randomly pulling EWPs, wasting mats by building tons of trebs right there inside the supply depot, building siege on top of tactics so they're difficult to pull, and so on.

    Apparently, none of that behavior is against the rules. Why is that so? I understand that Anet might not want to get involved in the drama among the player base, but the way some players end up behaving is just anti-social and hurts the experience of all players on the server plus the linked server, when the player only has some issue with a few key people.

    Example of trolling:

    Some really crappy behaviour. It happens a lot on my server too, people who pull all the tactics, place useless siege on-top of nodes/levers.

    I think anet can put a no siege placment to solve the issues with covering levers, but as for people actually trolling when they pull them - the BEST solution is that the guild who occupies the tower/keep should have their guild history show the account name and time the lever was pulled so we can identify and report these people when they actually troll.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    Because it’s a dead game mode.

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    Because it’s a dead game mode.

    Regular 60 vs. 60 zergs in T5 doesn't seem very dead to me.

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭

    In my opinion, the problem is not so much trolling. People will always attempt this in some manner. Rather, the problem is often the ease of trolling.

    • Anyone can easily throw kitten siege down to waste supply.

    Honestly, I wouldn't get too mad though. The biggest troll is the fact that WvW is ultimately a numbers game. Enjoy :+1:

    "You can't have quality population balance without quality participation." 🤯

    ~ Me

  • gloflop.3510gloflop.3510 Member ✭✭

    "Why arent wvw trolls punished?"

    First: What is trolling. Of course, there are some obvious cases but let us say, someone sees a waypoint blocked and pulls the ewp. Is he trolling? Maybe he was afraid of an inc. There is one treb standing at a wrong spot. Is the player trolling? It can also be a tryout. So, the definition of trolling is hard.

    Let us now assume that the definition is perfect. How should anet identify the trolls? Of course, there is the report button but someone needs to check if the report was done correctly or it was an error. So, it would require a lot of manpower to track the trolls.

    Anet seems to be fully aware of the trolling issue. E.g. the tactivators can be limited to one guild using it only. I can also imagine that they would love to limited the trolling possibilities even further. However, I understand the dilemma in which anet is and would not want to swap places with them.

  • gloflop.3510gloflop.3510 Member ✭✭

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    Because it’s a dead game mode.

    I heard it in the past often and (as you can see) hear it still. Of course, wvw is not dead. In fact, it has daily thousands of players. However, I don't think that this is meant with "dead". I thought long about what is actually meant. My interpretation now is that the player is bored. The game mode is not interesting for the particular player anymore. Nevertheless, I noticed lately a major outflow of veteran players from wvw. There seem to be a wide spread boredom.

  • Brutal Augus.5917Brutal Augus.5917 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2020

    Probably because they need money and hope the trolls will buy WaRcLaW sKiNs

  • Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭

    This situation instantly reminds me a situation of injustice we had on our server, where siege trolling was used just for the purpose of letting us know there is an injustice happening on our server and as a demand of open discussion about that injustice.

    Few years ago, when our server was still using TeamSpeak (nowaday we are on Discord), the Teamspeak server admin privilege was given to a EBG commander from respected guild on our server, after some time of his commanding (usually on Eternal Battlegrounds, he didnt like Borderland maps much). Then, after some weeks, we saw a siege troll on EBG Keep. That troll was really devoted, spending roughly about 6 hours around primetime with depleting our supplies, so basically when he was online, EBG had no supply anywhere. Of course enemies noticed that, so we were barely able to defend EBG Keep, the rest of EBG was captured by enemies after some time. That troll didnt said anything, he was just spending supplies for cca 6 hours, and nothing else. Next day, we saw him doing that again. And it repeats each next day again. Basically when he was online, we lost everything on EBG. Strange thing: he always trolled ONLY in EBG, never on any Borderlands. (Lately, we found it was because that injustice commander were playing usually EBG only).

    At the next match-up reset evening, he finally decided to answer our questions why he was doing that, and he told us that he and his 2 friends had a personall hassle with that commander on TS, which ended by that commander misused his TS server admin privileges to take advantage in their hassle, abused his admin "power", and gave all of his oponents perma-ban on our Teamspeak. When we heard this, and when we promised him that we will discuss this situation with that commander and demand explanation from that commander, that "troll" instantly stopped his trolling, even joining our squad and was playing normally like any other players in WvW. Next day, after some discussing about this with both sides of that hassle, we found what really happened, we decided to remove TS admin status from that commander, and unban those 3 friends which were banned. Since then, none of these 3 players never ever were siege trolling again.

    I was not that troll I am writing about, and also I am not the troll from the OP's screenshot, I am just suggesting to start an open discussion with that siege troll, and also with the player who initiated those TS changes. Maybe together you will find a solution.

    TLDR:
    Siege trolling can be used as a sign of some injustice happening on the server. Of course, malicious trolls who only want to harm exists too, but sometimes trolling situation is not just simply "black-and-white" as some power-abusing commanders want it to be perceived.

  • Opal.9324Opal.9324 Member ✭✭✭

    If it is about some injustice, maybe they should find a way of getting back at those commanders that doesn't inconvenience the entire server. All they are doing is making themselves look like the bad guys.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    Just needs a voting system to boot players away from the battlegroup, making them ffa pvp targets that show as red to everyone.

    ezpz, if they wanna be enemies, let em?

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    if you win wvw you win nothing, so if trolls make you lose you lose nothing while losing the potential to gain nothing.
    if people are pulling tactivators, support has already stated it is the fault of the guild who claimed the objective for not turning off public tactic activation.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mentioned in another post. Please anet ban this ppl not just that account that get reported but also ban the account that use the same IP.

    Death is Energy [DIE] & Bongbong [BB] in FoW
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @avey.4201 said:
    if you win wvw you win nothing, so if trolls make you lose you lose nothing while losing the potential to gain nothing.
    if people are pulling tactivators, support has already stated it is the fault of the guild who claimed the objective for not turning off public tactic activation.

    If only setting an objectives tactics to private actually works.
    Objectives turn themselves back to public. It happens when any member of the guild leaves the map, enters the map or switches guild tag, even if they are not the only guild member on the map. They seem to be going public in other circumstances too which I haven't been able to pin down yet. Setting tactics to private SHOULD be a reliable way to stop tactic trolls but it isn't.

    1 million + WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    wasting mats by building tons of trebs right there inside the supply depot

    I like build, and build it inside too. I like trebuchets.. Sometime take dragon banner and run for fun. Don't see fun - don't build. Don't see any problem.

    @Thelrok.7354 said:
    A simple solution that would be effective is to just IP/hardware ban every account that does this kind of thing or at least disabling the ability of people who troll to queue for WvW

    ??? If I see queue - I join in this queue also. Because may be something interesting on this map. It is main part of game.

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    They aint exploiting and/or abusing bugs, aint using 3rd party programs, neither hacks nor cheats.

    There is no an abuse bugs in game. Otherwise we will can say - use meta biuld also abusing. But yes, 3rd hack software is bad and should not exists.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thelrok.7354 said:
    While participating in Plaver-vs-Player (PvP) gameplay, you will not participate in any form of match manipulation.

    This is for pvp. For wvw the main target is do this manipulation and win. No sarcasm.

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    @gloflop.3510 said:

    Nevertheless, I noticed lately a major outflow of veteran players from wvw. There seem to be a wide spread boredom.

    I don't know about you, but as someone with over 13k hours played in GW2 with most of that spent roaming in WvW, I'm just sick of this boring Meta. Bunkers and overtuned condition builds aren't fun to play against, its almost like we learned this back in 2015. I'd also like my main (Mesmer) to have a place in literally any meta except raids. Apparently that's too much to ask for.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    Does it really matter, if it is PvP, WvW or sPvP and this paragraph applies or not?

    ANet did never do anything against WvW-Trolls, and I don't believe they will ever do anything.

    The only result the Troll-complaints in WvW had so far, was the new Auto-Upgrade-System, that made trolling less harmful than it was before.

    So be aware: Complaining over trolls very unlikely bans trolls, if it leads to something at all, than to not really appreciated game-mode changes.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Celsith.2753 said:

    @avey.4201 said:
    if you win wvw you win nothing, so if trolls make you lose you lose nothing while losing the potential to gain nothing.
    if people are pulling tactivators, support has already stated it is the fault of the guild who claimed the objective for not turning off public tactic activation.

    If only setting an objectives tactics to private actually works.
    Objectives turn themselves back to public. It happens when any member of the guild leaves the map, enters the map or switches guild tag, even if they are not the only guild member on the map. They seem to be going public in other circumstances too which I haven't been able to pin down yet. Setting tactics to private SHOULD be a reliable way to stop tactic trolls but it isn't.

    Senior GM Seraph~This is a result of improper guild role and permission management. There are settings in-game in order to prevent issues like this.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It has been stated on the forums, gosh, years ago, even before tactics, that siege trolling is.....TROLLING which is against ToS. This was back when the only thing to troll was supply, as supply was consumed for upgrades, and removing supply meant you could not buy ANY upgrades for a structure. People would also build golems and walk them off cliffs etc etc. to keep supply at 0. Now there are also tactics trolling with siege, as well as siege capping, this used to be big as well, as build enough siege and the whole area wont allow anyone to place more, and all the troll siege would be built right at walls or supply huts so they were useless to use. You could wait and see who it was, as they would come back every so often to refresh them all.

    These people are often from other servers, and this is considered match manipulation. The problem is that they don't bother with even real hacking bans, I mean straight wall climbing, flying, teleporting etc etc, with video proof, so they are for sure not going to waste time banning people for this unless you get half the server to report them. It's not enough that something breaks ToS, you have to make enough people mad enough about it that it becomes visible and anet goes "oh kitten, we need to do something now, they are getting pitchforks".

    We had someone on our server that did this, just a troll account, people even found out which server their main was on and I believe had screen shots of them stating it. As they got more and more brave as time went on. People didn't care at first, as the first day people just assumed they would get bored and move on, but 2 weeks later, they were still at it, 10+ hours a day, nothing, I mean NOTHING had supply, people stopped adding any tactics that were not passives because they were always wasted. We ended up getting most of the map to report them around that two week mark, and every person online from my guild at the time, so a solid 40-50 people there alone, most people didn't know how to report them, as for some reason, anet does not have a trolling/cheating option, however anet has stated that it should be reported under botting. Once that was done, the next day no one saw them, and didn't see them again for the rest of the week and then we had a matchup change, so I don't know if it was a perm ban or not. I did get an email back (as I reported and sent in screens and video of the person), all it stated was that action was taken.

    Simple fix for all of this is, just like spawn, make the area around the tactics siege locked, so it cant be placed within 150-200 units, same with food or other items that have interaction, they could also give tactics use priority. Make pulling tactics put out a map chat msg of "Player name: pulled EWP in Lowlands", not only does this help with spotting trolls who do this over and over, but also makes it so that when pulled for real, it's put in chat for people to click on without having to spam the link yourself.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SexyMofo.8923 said:
    Because it’s a dead game mode.

    Spvp? indeed.