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Burning tome firebrand sinister or viper.

frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭

We all know that if we got a profession with multiple conditions the best bet is viper.
Burn guardian relies 100% only on burn.
Ive read tons of threads this days picking info and opinions, and the conclusions i've found are these :

-"Viper is about 1% better against a single target, but Sinister pulls ahead in a big way when you can hit multiple targets, due to the way that Permeating Wrath works. Sinister is best in most real situations."

-"The bleeds are stronger with Viper, and basically negligible in Sinister. However, the burns are stronger in Sinister due to more raw condition damage stat."
So for open world and Core easy dungeons, whould it be better sinister?
The basic reason that people gives to choose viper is: in long fights like a boss, the viper does more damage. But, here's the thing, the stronger the condi bursts are, the shorter the fight gets.
However, as I said we got only burn to optimize, if we choose baltazar runes and specific weapon sigils to max burn, why would viper be better?

Im not doing mathematical tests because I suck at this, just making logical assumptions.

If I plan to do core dungeons that dont include "boss phases" which would benefit viper's duration when you cant hit him, would it be better more burst condi like the sinister or even carrion?

Comments

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    Never run condi in dungeons.

    Due to bad stat scaling for condi on low level instances, and how structure in core Tyria still immune to condi damages, you best stick to power.

    Otherwise I suggest sticking with Viper.

  • frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Never run condi in dungeons.

    Due to bad stat scaling for condi on low level instances, and how structure in core Tyria still immune to condi damages, you best stick to power.

    Otherwise I suggest sticking with Viper.

    The other day I saw a condi kalla renegade do more damage than all the power mates, in twilight arbor.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Never run condi in dungeons.

    Due to bad stat scaling for condi on low level instances, and how structure in core Tyria still immune to condi damages, you best stick to power.

    Otherwise I suggest sticking with Viper.

    Burn stacks damage at ~double the rate of other conditions, and is the reason why "burn guardian" is a thing in PvP and WvW: they really put a condi burst.

    About the topic, is not easy to say because FB (at least symbol based FB) is an hybrid build and viper, sinister and griever all work really well in terms of raw damage. My advise to you would be to craft both in unexpensive exotic armor pieces, get some ascended trinkets with map tokens, and test it in real conditions before crafting the ascended ones.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 24, 2020

    You want to hit 100% burn duration and max ferocity after that (grieving) if running burning firebrand. Last I checked the viper variants with the bleed on crit only have ~5% total bleeding contribution.

    If you're using food+utility you can get away with mixing in sinister because of the expertise and power to condition conversion.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    @frareanselm.1925 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Never run condi in dungeons.

    Due to bad stat scaling for condi on low level instances, and how structure in core Tyria still immune to condi damages, you best stick to power.

    Otherwise I suggest sticking with Viper.

    The other day I saw a condi kalla renegade do more damage than all the power mates, in twilight arbor.

    Try do that on a graveling mound, a Jormag totem, a Dredge vehicle, or a inquest turret, condi does zero damage.
    Ren stack 25 might easier than most of other classes, but still hardly a match to the burst power of a DH in a dungeon.

  • Fargas.6251Fargas.6251 Member ✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    You want to hit 100% burn duration and max ferocity after that (grieving) if running burning firebrand. Last I checked the viper variants with the bleed on crit only have ~5% total bleeding contribution.

    How much Expertise and Ferocity is that? I’d wager for those of us with trash tier gear, these stats take priority over power and condition. You wouldn’t happen to know where we could find burn’s Condition vs Expertise Break Points would you?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    It depends on your traits + sigil.
    If you're running Balthazar rune or Flame Legion rune you have +50% burn duration , smoldering sigil is 20% (that's not meta anymore but it once was), and the Radiant Fire trait has 20% burn duration.

    Expertise is 15 points per 1% condition duration. With that in mind, if you have +50% burn duration rune and the Radiant Fire trait you need 30% duration which is 450 expertise (this can be from gear or food ; there's 15% burn duration food but most people use +100 condition damage +70 expertise food or +100 expertise +70 condition damage food). If you have a smoldering sigil then that drops to 10% required duration (i.e. 150 expertise).

    The breakpoint on burning is at 655 (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_Damage ), but that is irrelevant due to how many burning modifiers are in the game that can get you to 100% burn duration.