Dear devs: Top players pick professions with high performance..not the hardest to play

I think this is a big misconception the devs have : there is no correlation between performance and difficulty , if GW2 would be a game where skill ceiling=performance there would never be balance problems and everybody would be relatively happy as they have a reason to stick to a profession and reach their comfort zone.

We know that Top players represent the epitome of skill in this game and if it would be true what you say about revenants...then we would have a much bigger class/build variety at the top compared to the bottom instead we have exactly the opposite situation where most specs/classes stop being viable the higher we climb the skill ladder, they have a much lower skill ceiling compared to revenant and that's the main reason many specs disappear after silver/bronze level.

This is not a nerf thread, this is a request for devs to start "improving" underperforming/represented classes/specs , I don't mean powercreeping , I am talking about increase in functionality for what is not getting used much or seen at all in game

Yeah berserker is pretty badAnd Chrono

Rev or "Herald" for its complete history was chosen based on exploiting its broken design between chaining infinite dodge, Unrelenting assault through portal, exploiting quickness/ superspeed and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

The fact that it was nerfed as many times as it was and still stuck around, to then see that the change that ruined these kids lives was giving staff 5 a Warrior-like animation is hilarious.

Get destroyed.

It makes only sense that the most skilled players (top players) pick the professions with the highest performance. They are not top players without a reason: They care about more than "just having fun". They prbably know about analyzing all the skills/traits and the balance changes (while keeping track of them) ... and having lots of knowledge of the game and all professoins and lots of time to dedicate to learning different builds ...

they can adapt and just use the strongest possible ("high performance") professions and builds.A only "good" player might not dedicate that much time to the game to do that.

"Hardest to play" just means that less skilled players (and/or less dedicated to the game and to learning) will perform a loooot worse on those classes. While the gap between top and less good players is smaller for "easier to play" classes.

Still doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a gap for easy to play classes/professions. Might just be smaller. I can't imagine a noob picking a "meta" build that is "easy" becoming legendary player just cause he picks that easy to play build/profession.

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

too bad it was just doing as much damage as classes with 0 dmg multipliers, while having to spend every possible trait into dmg

I'd say that it's more about how well adapted the profession are to the current PvP environment than performance. Currently, the low damage environment naturally favor professions that rely on damage mitigation and sustain while previously the high damage environment favoured damage nullification (block/dodge/invuln).

But yeah, players (bad or good) just naturally flock toward what's the most cost-effective (effort/skill) way to win in whatever environment they are most likely going to encounter.

@Virdo.1540 said:

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

Name one other class that rivals heralds sustain with two offensive traitlines.And a class with the same relative sustain that rivals their damage.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

it used to be warrior/holo but now ... nothing really, there is no other spec that does what power rev does, mb ranger? and its not even power rev needing all that much nerfing, but other dps oriented power builds needing buffs.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

When the majority;

• Don't play around Enchanted Daggers.
• Don't compensate for Infuse Light.
• Don't have spacial awareness of the most predictable burst in a team with some Power Herald that can only 1+.
• Don't counter the most UNSAFE burst of the game with one CC.

There's no hope. Power Herald sustain is terrible and is only living by the same mistakes people make. If only most focused a Herald that didn't have Infuse Light and waited for proper times to use their skills rather than sink everything in one go because all Power Herald CAN do is only guess if you're going to use anything or not by using their sustain skills in one go while escaping and their peeling has ALWAYS the same skills that you can predict yourself.

Power Revenant rivals and surpass Power Herald in everyways also. It's an overrated dead build.

@Shao.7236 said:When the majority;

• Don't play around Enchanted Daggers.
• Don't compensate for Infuse Light.
• Don't have spacial awareness of the most predictable burst in a team with some Power Herald that can only 1+.
• Don't counter the most UNSAFE burst of the game with one CC.

this is fine and all but when you get los ported for half your health in less then a second its pretty lame. its the same story as teef and mes qq back when they one shotted with impunity. legit or not?

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Shao.7236 said:When the majority;

• Don't play around Enchanted Daggers.
• Don't compensate for Infuse Light.
• Don't have spacial awareness of the most predictable burst in a team with some Power Herald that can only 1+.
• Don't counter the most UNSAFE burst of the game with one CC.

Legit. Cept.

Power Herald is like cutting down on everything Thief and Mesmer have in term of surprise in exchange for Phase Traversal being usable more often with LESS damage too. LoS ports are really map specific if not avoidable given looking around occasionally mid fight does not ruin player performance.

Me personally if I learn that someone can only 1+ on a team, it's the first thing I look out for whether be 1v1 or team fighting because they're the weak link of their team if they're not able to do what they're meant for.

I am /aware/ of the out of sight Stealth and I hope they can do something for it, reveal before burst or visible silhouette upon a certain range within the radius of the player. I'm good with either.

Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

Interesting point...really I think people complain about the nature of the burst spec, everything is fair game except when dealing with a deadeye in which case , the devs should remove the "stealth on dodge" trait as alone it removes any resemblance of counterplay against this particular burst spec, other thief builds are fair game

yes everybody wants every trait to be meaningful and good so you have more options and playstyles.

Not sure why you bring in top players, yes they go for whatever it's more efficient being it super hard to perform or totally braindead, so do most players. Ppl want to win and let the fun build to play to unranked, those who are aware what their fun build does will play those builds in ranked sometimes when they know it's viable

@Supreme.3164 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

Even thief players admit stealth on dodge was a mistake as was kneel.

@Khalisto.5780 said:yes everybody wants every trait to be meaningful and good so you have more options and playstyles.

Not sure why you bring in top players, yes they go for whatever it's more efficient being it super hard to perform or totally braindead, so do most players. Ppl want to win and let the fun build to play to unranked, those who are aware what their fun build does will play those builds in ranked sometimes when they know it's viable

The thread is based on CmC comments and the way balance is being conducted , he said that rev is efficient only because TOP players play it and my idea is that pro players play revenant because is efficient and that got nothing to do with the class difficulty, it can the hardest class to learn but it performs once you learn and we can't say the same about other professions...otherwise we would see a bigger variety of builds being played at high levels.

If high skill level is the requirement for high performance..then apply the same principle to all classes and not just revenant, that's what I mean in the OP

@Shao.7236 said:snips

my gripe is more with los porting in general then with power rev.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Shao.7236 said:snips

So no los sporting is or has been a issue on thief etc for how long and the most accepted nerf was make them require los port to make it more fair. Rev has a port that requires los and it's a issue?

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Why doesn't the community just be blunt and just say that u guys would like burst specs and the burst playstyle fully removed from the game. U all have issues with any spec doing it so....Like the above poster what kind of burst spec would a spec be if its bursts didnt take half to close to the enemies hp if its burst connects effectively, a burst class hitting for 15% of ur hp in a game like gw2 would not be functional or effective as a burst class if it did so little. Also the sword 5 requires line of sight and if u kno revs targeting u u can assume given the class type hes gonna be trying for the sword 5.Lastly rev being a burst spec it makes sense it has skill like sw5 for quick engage but definitely isnt amazing at disengaging compared to a lot of other classes. The fact it's got great engage but less disengage and the port on sw5 needing los seems pretty balanced given gw2 roster of skills. Rev may have been some superpowered spec but it's not nearly as broken as the community is making it sound these days. Also the cmc comment makes sense as power rev as I'm assuming hes referencing has a higher skill floor so usually players not that mechanically skilled more often than not don't do very well on it and rev players that people hear about or get wrecked by are unsually good players that are skillful on multiple classes or would be so on any the took the time to learn. Even now I see far more variants of necros, guards, thieves, engis than power revs in pvp. U guys are literally killing ur own game along side anet lol.It's funny no?

To be honest I am fine with the big burst. Be aware, open your eyes and dodge when necessary.What tickles me a bit more is when the big burst guy has also enough sustain to be hardly killable before his next burst ... especially when a part of it has, at the same time, the effect of two full dodges.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@TeqkOneStylez.8047 said:and having 9484743833 dmg multipliers for no reason.

Alchemy is basically damage AND survival, so holodsmith.

@Avatar.3568 said:Yeah berserker is pretty badAnd Chrono

Any warrior not power (well CC) SB.Any guardian build not zeal symbolyst FB.Power rev.Ranger. Core is weak okayish and everything else is trash.DE.Any engi but proto holo.Anything beside CC tempest.Mesmer.Any power necro.

Diversity is... non-existent. Sure.. it was not great pre-march patch, but it is much worse now.

^ Don't agree. Did play 2 FB builds and 3 Rev builds in season 20 (~260 ranked matches). Never played so many matches and so many different builds across the same season, and the five were fun, having different strong points and weakness. Most of the seasons I did play a single build or sometimes two. But I agree in which after the February power damage shaving some builds focused on fast burst have been relegated and replaced by a "bunkerish bruiser AoE teamfight" meta. But I do like it more than one-shooting metas.

@"Supreme.3164" said:I think this is a big misconception the devs have : there is no correlation between performance and difficulty , if GW2 would be a game where skill ceiling=performance there would never be balance problems and everybody would be relatively happy as they have a reason to stick to a profession and reach their comfort zone.

We know that Top players represent the epitome of skill in this game and if it would be true what you say about revenants...then we would have a much bigger class/build variety at the top compared to the bottom instead we have exactly the opposite situation where most specs/classes stop being viable the higher we climb the skill ladder, they have a much lower skill ceiling compared to revenant and that's the main reason many specs disappear after silver/bronze level.

This is not a nerf thread, this is a request for devs to start "improving" underperforming/represented classes/specs , I don't mean powercreeping , I am talking about increase in functionality for what is not getting used much or seen at all in game

Thing is, shiro/glint revenant is actually really well designed, and fun to play. If there were other high skill ceiling builds which were able to capture the interest of high end players for such a long time, you'd see them played aswell. However... PoF elite specs mostly bought spamfests and memes.Play shiroglint close to the maximum of it's potential, then go play deadeye/scourge/FB/mirage etc. the same way... which is more satisfying? Which is more fun? Apart from a few cases where you solely play the game to tilt people, shiroglint comes out on top for most people.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So no los sporting is or has been a issue on thief etc for how long and the most accepted nerf was make them require los port to make it more fair. Rev has a port that requires los and it's a issue?

wat.literally everything is wrong in that.

@Khalisto.5780 said:yes everybody wants every trait to be meaningful and good so you have more options and playstyles.

Not sure why you bring in top players, yes they go for whatever it's more efficient being it super hard to perform or totally braindead, so do most players. Ppl want to win and let the fun build to play to unranked, those who are aware what their fun build does will play those builds in ranked sometimes when they know it's viable

Not everyone.

There are a lot who want buffs and improvements on their said played spec and nerfed to the one that counters them hardest, hence the nerf tempest nerf weaver nerf revenant plox comment.

Its the fault of people asking for kneejerk nerf into the ground for certain specs like ranger rev mesmers, and we need returning now of some buffs to mes for relevance and ranger.

I dunno about rev though, i know that i rarely saw any renegades, it was mostly heralds before the nerfs over renegade, not sure why.