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Please stop asking LI for strike missions

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  • Is it ok if you don't have LI to create a group requesting LI so you can get carried? Asking for a friend

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bingus.4236 said:
    Is it ok if you don't have LI to create a group requesting LI so you can get carried? Asking for a friend

    Im sure people do that yes, but dont be shocked of people call you out for it even being a leader.
    Block and nickname is a easy way to never having to group with people who fake things again.

  • @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Dark Red Killian.3946 said:
    Excuse me for saying, but Strike Missions are meant to be a bridge to Raids. Requiring LI for a game mode that was meant to introduce less experienced players to step into raids just seems ridiculous. Not to mention LI’s are obtainable only through raids. In my opinion, if you want your squad to have LI, go do raids and leave people in strikes alone. Just my two cents.

    Why do they have to leave the content alone playing their way? Why do they have to change the way they play or who they like to play with? How about you leave them alone to enjoy the game how they want to with the people they like to enjoy it with.

    "You don't / shouldn't need LI because the content is easy enough / LI are from raids". And? People are free to set whatever requirements they want for their group and are free to enjoy the game however they see fit. Regardless of what the requirement is.

    People who ask for LI aren't bothering anyone besides those who feel they belong in those groups.

    What's so hard about making your own group to play how you want? If any part the answer is ever that you may not complete the content or things may be too hard for you and that's the reason for this complaint then you aren't complaining about the group's with LI blocking/bothering you..you're complaining about not being carried.

    I’ve played strikes long enough that I know each one inside out. I’ve gotten all of the runic armor sets of each weight too. I have only ever done raids a couple of times. So if I’m looking for a group in strikes, I would be penelized for not having a currency that is not even for that game mode. I can see this being a potential problem. However, not sure why this is an issue for the author as I hardly ever see groups in lfg requiring this for strikes.

  • I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2020

    Solution remove li , legendery amor ,kp

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why arw other groups stopping you from creating your own ones? Why do people always complain about others, but not look at themselves?

    Strikes are already easy and fill quickly, you lose absolutely nothing by listing a random message on lfg.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Solution remove li , legendery amor ,kp

    Solution: add proper kp in strike missions

  • @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

  • @Starbreaker.6507 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nazarick.9653 said:

    @Starbreaker.6507 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

    You don’t need knowledge to lead a squad. At least not when it comes to strikes.

  • @Nazarick.9653 said:

    @Starbreaker.6507 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

    And people don't own you anything to lead other people in a way they don't like.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nazarick.9653 said:

    @Starbreaker.6507 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

    So ppl who has knowledge to lead a squad, needs to lead a squad for players that they dont want to play with?

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Nazarick.9653 said:

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

    So ppl who has knowledge to lead a squad, needs to lead a squad for players that they dont want to play with?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    The same way you should not be forced to ever have to play with people you don't want to play with, the very idea that someone else might be required to let you join their group even if they'd rather not play with you is equally abhorrent.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ok, if not li- what should we ask ? Dhumm tokens ?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @lare.5129 said:
    ok, if not li- what should we ask ? Dhumm tokens ?

    Nothing simply nothing its why anet did not add kp for strikes

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Nothing simply nothing

    so how we can sort players?? no way. Also there is no any point ask kp from strike, we have kp from old cm100 and from raid.. So if some new kp from strike will come they will will be not valid for good and toxic commanders.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    i think you got confused, group that ask LI are not training run and thus not a group you should get into if you are planning on reaching raid by doing strike, LI group are reward group.
    should people stop doing their daily/weekly reward when being able to raid? i don't think so
    should people be forced to play with people that are clueless on how to play their class/role when they took the time to learn and improve themselves? once again i don't think so
    and in my opinion strike aren't teaching you anything about raid. Unfortunally people that have no clue how to dps/heal/give boon will remain clueless after killing all bosses. So it is even more harmful for beginer to get in groups that are routinely killing the strike as they will just find it easy and think they did great instead of having them struggle and learn what they should improve.

    and for people that seems to think there is no strike kp:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boneskinner_Ritual_Vial

  • From doing strikes on EU for the past couple of weeks, I have seen the following

    1: Never more than one group at a time asking for LI, it often sits unfilled for a significant period of time
    2: Plenty of other groups filling without asking for LI
    3: People want to do Shiverpeaks, Fraenir and Kodan way more than other strike missions. Cold War seems quite unpopular in particular.

    I did spend a good amount of time in one group where we couldn't beat Whisper Of Jormag, I can see why people would want to avoid that if they have a limited amount of time but it seems more important to have class spread right in the trickier ones and it's way more common for people to demand class types rather than LI.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bingus.4236 said:
    From doing strikes on EU for the past couple of weeks, I have seen the following

    1: Never more than one group at a time asking for LI, it often sits unfilled for a significant period of time
    2: Plenty of other groups filling without asking for LI
    3: People want to do Shiverpeaks, Fraenir and Kodan way more than other strike missions. Cold War seems quite unpopular in particular.

    I did spend a good amount of time in one group where we couldn't beat Whisper Of Jormag, I can see why people would want to avoid that if they have a limited amount of time but it seems more important to have class spread right in the trickier ones and it's way more common for people to demand class types rather than LI.

    Why cold war is less popular is its not straight to boss like the other ones its a 10 min pre event.

  • Boneskinner and whisper is due to they are not easy bosses (wich anet should fix)

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    its not hard just don't stand in shackles at woj and dodge/sidestep claws at bone

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Boneskinner and whisper is due to they are not easy bosses (wich anet should fix)

    Nerfing the bosses so that they’re easier defeats the purpose of the strikes. Anet intended for them to be a stepping stone into raids.

  • kanemi.4903kanemi.4903 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Fangoth.4503 said:
    i think you got confused, group that ask LI are not training run and thus not a group you should get into if you are planning on reaching raid by doing strike, LI group are reward group.
    should people stop doing their daily/weekly reward when being able to raid? i don't think so
    should people be forced to play with people that are clueless on how to play their class/role when they took the time to learn and improve themselves? once again i don't think so
    and in my opinion strike aren't teaching you anything about raid. Unfortunally people that have no clue how to dps/heal/give boon will remain clueless after killing all bosses. So it is even more harmful for beginer to get in groups that are routinely killing the strike as they will just find it easy and think they did great instead of having them struggle and learn what they should improve.

    and for people that seems to think there is no strike kp:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boneskinner_Ritual_Vial

    But why would you ask for kp when this is a prep for raids?!

    And the only boss who have kp is Boneskinner and you could added Cold War Achievement Morale Breaker
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strike_Mission:_Cold_War

    And those are the only ones in which u can ask for something.

    I have PUG strikes daily, and rarely you see people
    asking for kp/LI on NA.

    NA Server
    Fix Sunqua

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Boneskinner and whisper is due to they are not easy bosses (wich anet should fix)

    Nerfing the bosses so that they’re easier defeats the purpose of the strikes. Anet intended for them to be a stepping stone into raids.

    That didn't work. Letting go of that failure of original purpose might at least give them a second life, though.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Boneskinner and whisper is due to they are not easy bosses (wich anet should fix)

    Nerfing the bosses so that they’re easier defeats the purpose of the strikes. Anet intended for them to be a stepping stone into raids.

    That didn't work. Letting go of that failure of original purpose might at least give them a second life, though.

    And how is it a failure? Strikes have various degrees of difficulty depending on the boss you fight. They are more difficult than open world content. A “stepping stone” doesn’t mean “raid ready”.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    This.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't worry. From experience, KP demanding groups are usually people who want to be carried. I've had more 50+ LI groups fail on stuff like boneskinner than I have training groups fail on QTP. :) It's silly. Just make your own group and let them waste their own time.

  • @Nazarick.9653 said:

    @Starbreaker.6507 said:

    @Krzysztof.5973 said:

    @Aceofsppades.6873 said:

    I pug strikes every day and I've literally never seen an lfg requesting LI. On NA if that helps.

    Is this a really such a widespread issue on eu?

    It's worldwise-spread issue to be annoyed by other people's LFG requirements instead of making your own.

    One of truest statements you'll find on any forum where something like this comes up

    And along with it you'll find the most ignored statement - not everyone has the knowledge to lead a squad. (FS is fine because anything will do, but the rest all require a specific squad make-up)

    Open the LFG & Contacts window, navigate to the LFG tab, navigate to the Strikes tab, click the button to post your group, write description of what you're looking for. Boom, done. Your own LFG with your own rules.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Was it stated that the primary goal of strikes was to increase the raider population? Players choosing not to transition to raiding doesn’t mean that strikes failed as a stepping stone

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Was it stated that the primary goal of strikes was to increase the raider population? Players choosing not to transition to raiding doesn’t mean that strikes failed as a stepping stone

    It was stated they should be stepping stones for people to get into raiding.
    That obviously means, Arenanet made them with the goal to eventually increase the population in raids.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Was it stated that the primary goal of strikes was to increase the raider population? Players choosing not to transition to raiding doesn’t mean that strikes failed as a stepping stone

    It was stated they should be stepping stones for people to get into raiding.
    That obviously means, Arenanet made them with the goal to eventually increase the population in raids.

    The failure or success of strikes can’t be based on whether players make a separate choice on whether to do raids or not.

    There’s a very large difference between open world PvE and raids. Strikes were designed to be a stepping stone for this. If there’s still a large gap then some of the new strikes should be more challenging than what’s currently available.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    The failure or success of strikes can’t be based on whether players make a separate choice on whether to do raids or not.

    There’s a very large difference between open world PvE and raids. Strikes were designed to be a stepping stone for this. If there’s still a large gap then some of the new strikes should be more challenging than what’s currently available.

    I specifically wrote that they can be seen as failures, if they are seen as stepping stones into raids.
    There is a fundamental difference between seeing Strikes Missions on their own and seeing them as stepping stones for raids.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    The failure or success of strikes can’t be based on whether players make a separate choice on whether to do raids or not.

    There’s a very large difference between open world PvE and raids. Strikes were designed to be a stepping stone for this. If there’s still a large gap then some of the new strikes should be more challenging than what’s currently available.

    I specifically wrote that they can be seen as failures, if they are seen as stepping stones into raids.
    There is a fundamental difference between seeing Strikes Missions on their own and seeing them as stepping stones for raids.

    Just as there’s a fundamental difference between strikes being a stepping stone for raids in regards to gameplay as opposed to increasing raid population.

  • Aceofsppades.6873Aceofsppades.6873 Member ✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Except you don't have the ground to actually make that claim. in fact I'd argue I have just as much ground to make the opposite claim.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Was it stated that the primary goal of strikes was to increase the raider population?

    No, but but it was mentioned that it was one of the goals.

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Raids

    • Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.
    • Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.

    I bolded the relevant parts.

    Players choosing not to transition to raiding doesn’t mean that strikes failed as a stepping stone

    It means exactly that. A stepping stone to raids fails as a stepping stone if noone's using it to ascend there. And yes, there was a mention about devs hoping that the stepping stones will increase raid population. It was in the same quote where they practically said raids are now abandoned

    Anet hoped, that strikes will become a stepping stone to raids that will increase raid population. In this, strikes did end up as a failure.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Deeyra.1476Deeyra.1476 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    I just can't believe there is another thread on this.

    As long there are people that try to cut themselves off from the vast majority via requirements, these threads will never stop.

    Why would i want to spend 2 hours doing 1 strike missions if i can do it in fast in one shot with experienced people? I did the learning curve and now people want me my experience to cary them instead of looking up boss mehanics? Not gonna waste time if i want something done fast, I will ask for an experience group. But when i have time to help new people, i will help them out and give tips etc.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    And how is it a failure?

    Because it didn't (significantly) increased the population in raids, it's easy to see Strike Missions as failures, if you see them as stepping stones into raids.

    All that happened in terms of stepping stones is the opposite of what was intended: Many people (most prominently the KP demanders) turned raiding into a stepping stone for Boneskinner.

    Was it stated that the primary goal of strikes was to increase the raider population?

    No, but but it was mentioned that it was one of the goals.

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Raids

    • Raids are a trickier beast. They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract. We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.
    • Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.

    I bolded the relevant parts.

    Players choosing not to transition to raiding doesn’t mean that strikes failed as a stepping stone

    It means exactly that. A stepping stone to raids fails as a stepping stone if noone's using it to ascend there. And yes, there was a mention about devs hoping that the stepping stones will increase raid population. It was in the same quote where they practically said raids are now abandoned

    Anet hoped, that strikes will become a stepping stone to raids that will increase raid population. In this, strikes did end up as a failure.

    You're conflating the two. Adding a middle ground between open world content and raids (i.e. a stepping stone) and whether players actually then decide to move onto raids are two very different things.

    They succeeded in adding the intermediary step (stepping stone) although it could certainly be fleshed out some more. As far as what appears to be a secondary goal, you cannot say for certain that it didn't cause players to jump into raids just as it cannot be said for certain that it did. We do not have access to that data. You cannot say strikes are a failure solely on that so unless you have something else to back up that claim...

  • Aceofsppades.6873Aceofsppades.6873 Member ✭✭
    edited November 6, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    It means exactly that. A stepping stone to raids fails as a stepping stone if noone's using it to ascend there. And yes, there was a mention about devs hoping that the stepping stones will increase raid population. It was in the same quote where they practically said raids are now abandoned

    Anet hoped, that strikes will become a stepping stone to raids that will increase raid population. In this, strikes did end up as a failure.

    You have literally no way of backing up that claim.

    In order for that to be true the full suit of strikes would need to exist which you can't prove and you would have to show that it hasn't lead to more interest in raids which again you don't have the numbers to prove.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deeyra.1476 said:
    Why would i want to spend 2 hours doing 1 strike missions if i can do it in fast in one shot with experienced people? I did the learning curve and now people want me my experience to cary them instead of looking up boss mehanics? Not gonna waste time if i want something done fast, I will ask for an experience group. But when i have time to help new people, i will help them out and give tips etc.

    How'd I know what you would want?
    I'm not you.

    Also, I'm not opposed to those KP blockades.
    I just make my own groups.

    But me doing that doesn't stop others from making these threads.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    Judging the playerbase we need something easier than strikes before even talking about 'stepping stone' into raids to begin with. As long as there is no proper tutorial about core mechanics in the game like CC and damage types, there is no talk about increasing raid population. God forbid making strikes lobby in Aerodrome as people might do something unthinkable like joining raid LFG. The two are being disconnected from one another. Naturally, people will keep asking about li as long as it necessary in their mind to do so.

  • Why do people need tutorials? There's a huge wiki and people post videos online explaining stuff. Plus you could always ask people how something works...

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bingus.4236 said:
    Why do people need tutorials? There's a huge wiki and people post videos online explaining stuff. Plus you could always ask people how something works...

    This will sound weird, but there is alot of ppl who think that playing a game should be enough knowledge wise, like some ppl think that they should not need to look help from outside of game.

    Personally i spend more time on wiki than ingame most likely tho 😅

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • @kanemi.4903 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:
    i think you got confused, group that ask LI are not training run and thus not a group you should get into if you are planning on reaching raid by doing strike, LI group are reward group.
    should people stop doing their daily/weekly reward when being able to raid? i don't think so
    should people be forced to play with people that are clueless on how to play their class/role when they took the time to learn and improve themselves? once again i don't think so
    and in my opinion strike aren't teaching you anything about raid. Unfortunally people that have no clue how to dps/heal/give boon will remain clueless after killing all bosses. So it is even more harmful for beginer to get in groups that are routinely killing the strike as they will just find it easy and think they did great instead of having them struggle and learn what they should improve.

    and for people that seems to think there is no strike kp:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boneskinner_Ritual_Vial

    But why would you ask for kp when this is a prep for raids?!

    And the only boss who have kp is Boneskinner and you could added Cold War Achievement Morale Breaker
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strike_Mission:_Cold_War

    And those are the only ones in which u can ask for something.

    I have PUG strikes daily, and rarely you see people
    asking for kp/LI on NA.

    Maybe you're lucky on NA and all player perform well but on EU some player are efficient at killing strikes some are miles away from being efficient.
    LI/KP is a filter, even though not being perfect it gives overall better group quality than open lfg.
    it's like if you had the choice between using two road to go to work:
    -one is more time consuming, and there is no need to know how to drive at all which lead to multiple accidents
    -one is faster and overall safer but require you to know how to drive
    You're free to choose the first one if you prefer but as a permit holder i rather go via the 2nd one ;) so if i want to do only kodan/shiver/fraenir i'll go in no li group but is il want also do boneskiner or woj i'll join kp/li group.
    I also don't see it as a way to form you for raids, if you want start raid take like 5 min to google a build adapted for raid, pactice it 1-2h on golem and you can join trainings, best in all that if you practiced a bit you will do fine :).

    Kodan/shiver/fraenir teaches nothing as they are trivial and more or less failproof, boneskiner or woj could be teaching you but i see nothing close to a training there, by training i mean something with better standards thans just having 9 friend or 9 guildies or 9 random pug that most likely don't have the experience necessary to explain properly how it works.
    Of course you can try to kill boneskinner daily to get a lot of vials but i'm affraid it's never gonna be accepted as LI/KP subsitute in raid. worst case groups that were asking for nothing may start to ask for them, glad it didn't happen so far.

    Cold war and forging steel are just here to be done once weekly if you care about the chest, other than that they don't bring much. well coldwar could be ok-ish if it was possible to skip the pre-event but atm the only way is to wait for it to end, which is still a waste of time.
    asking for CW title is worth as much as asking for chilly peper or eternal ice as kp, anyone can have it whether you're skilled or not, its just farming...

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    @Corvus.2831 said:

    @Corvus.2831 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    Please stop blaming on the community what is caused by the bad construction of the game.

    -remove LI entirely - glad we agree.

    Why are you asking to players that only wish to clear bosses decently and if possible quickly, to take by the hand and teach newer players, people that will mostly not listen anyway ?

    You asume those players clear bosses decently and quickly, most LI groups ive been in have higher rate of failure than groups with no LI where players actually form the group freely optimizing themselves to do the best they can.
    So false premise right there. LItards dont clear bosses quickly, they waste 30 minutes in the LFG, waste everyones time and quit after two wipes because their ultimate super optimal best in slot group composition is a fairytale they deluded themselves is more important than reality of actual pratcice and play.

    The people whose jobs it is to make the progression smooth so that players learn to play and access content are the devs, not the other players. Some of the playerbase are actually taking time to teach and stuff (Raid-teaching guilds and communities etc), but that is merely something that they are kind enough to do on their free time.

    I agree, devs should remove LI and block inspection of builds when forming groupd throug LFG or remove LFG entirely and let guilds be the social hubs they are supposed to be.

    So leave the people who want to play with others of similar level to have decent kills to their LFGs, and if that is not what you seek, do respect them and do not click to join their groups. It's as simple as that.

    False premise - Li doesnt represent you have any similarity in level of play with anyone else. Many people have li because people who are not LItards let them in. They got carried and they look to get carried again by following an online guide as if it was objectively equival to how the game plays out in actuality.
    Oh and respect has to be earned, just because you got carried for some LI doesnt mean you get any respect from a respectable person...

    It's not because /you/ only want to clear things and do not care how much time it takes and how the kill is performed that your standards applies to all players. Some people don't have much time to play, other players would rather restart the boss if the kill isn't clean enough because they like when it's well done, etc ...

    Again false, i already adressed this - LI groups DONT perform better and dont waste less time, they waste more time making a group and fail more often at the task than a free form pug. LItards have low attention spans and cant handle more than 2 wipes. They are arogant and demand everyone conforms to their demands, its a blanket statement of insecurity and egoism.

    People seem to believe "Elitists" hate new players, but the truth is that most "Elitists" only dislike people that lie, fake stuff to get in the groups, do not ever try to learn anything and generally believe that other players are there solely to carry them into the content without doing any efforts.

    LI demanding players are not elitist, they are the dirt league obsessed with the magic theory of how to win because they actually cant perform well...

    Most people I know would be happy to answer questions or even take time to help someone at the golem or on gearing and build advices provided they are asked politely in PMs and know the answers. Aslong as people are genuinly motivated to learn, content isn't hard to get into. It might be a tad long, but it isn't at all if you compare it with gearing time and stuff like that on other MMOs.

    Except most of the LI demanders are weak players from whom theres nothing to teach, you dont know kitten, you dont play my character at all, all you know is something you read online that you dont even understand.
    Good players who want to teach and let people practice dont demand LI for a kitten strike mission! The people who do are exactly the opposite of a good player who wants to teach.

    Bottom line, your method leads the game down a path of less and less people playing. I am a good player, i have nothing to proove to a LI degenerate, if you treat me like kitten because you feel entitled to that then ill play some other skill based game, enjoy your mmo spinning the drain because you were too lazy to admit you just are a greedy piglet trying to game the system without putting in the work.

    Enjoy pretending you have the aswer when your group wipes on WOJ because of unpredictable cuircumstances you can't addapt to cause you suck at the game :)

    Woah there buddy, did someone promise you a popsicle but then didn't give it to you? Live and let live. If you don't like LI strike squads, don't join them.

    if you treat me like kitten because you feel entitled to that then ill play some other skill based game

    Why not join a different group? OR MAKE YOUR OWN.

  • Sir Alymer.3406Sir Alymer.3406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2020

    See, this idea that strike missions are the stepping stone for raids has this imaginary idea that GW2 players pay attention during a fight or can even see the mechanics and animations for said mechanics through the cloud of particle effects (Even with minimum settings; and to add, people in the raid static I'm part of don't even know a lot of mechanics). That's how strike missions failed at becoming or even being a stepping stone for raids. They lack key elements to help players pay attention and understand mechanics. They don't engage the player and stay engaging throughout, they don't really give feedback as to why you downed here and now. It's just a sea of AoE markers that are sometimes green and sometimes orange or sometimes just a mechanic (like chains on WoJ) that has an icon above the head that lasts all of a few seconds and is easily lost in the cloud of effects.

    Meanwhile, Dhuum of all things has almost all of the mechanics built up to in bite-sized pieces. You stand in greens at the broken king, you stay near the spirits at the devourer, etc. This translates out to 'going up' at the Dhuum greens. The few mechanics not explained, the 7 reapers help you with by calling them out for you. When chained at Dhuum, they call "Your souls are linked, separate!" and when Dhuum tries to kill them they yell "Dhuum's gaze falls on me!". Yes, you'll fail but that's kind of the point. You'll have something of an audio cue to figure out what's going on in the fight and have a better understanding on how to deal with it.

    This is not an LFG problem as it doesn't take much to make your own LFG with your own rules. This is both entitlement and anger that there are no easy groups to just join.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    joined yesterday for bone for non kp squads, to get fun and check how it looks. 12 starts, 0 kills.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    See, this idea that strike missions are the stepping stone for raids has this imaginary idea that GW2 players pay attention during a fight or can even see the mechanics and animations for said mechanics through the cloud of particle effects (Even with minimum settings; and to add, people in the raid static I'm part of don't even know a lot of mechanics). That's how strike missions failed at becoming or even being a stepping stone for raids. They lack key elements to help players pay attention and understand mechanics. They don't engage the player and stay engaging throughout, they don't really give feedback as to why you downed here and now. It's just a sea of AoE markers that are sometimes green and sometimes orange or sometimes just a mechanic (like chains on WoJ) that has an icon above the head that lasts all of a few seconds and is easily lost in the cloud of effects.

    Meanwhile, Dhuum of all things has almost all of the mechanics built up to in bite-sized pieces. You stand in greens at the broken king, you stay near the spirits at the devourer, etc. This translates out to 'going up' at the Dhuum greens. The few mechanics not explained, the 7 reapers help you with by calling them out for you. When chained at Dhuum, they call "Your souls are linked, separate!" and when Dhuum tries to kill them they yell "Dhuum's gaze falls on me!". Yes, you'll fail but that's kind of the point. You'll have something of an audio cue to figure out what's going on in the fight and have a better understanding on how to deal with it.

    This is not an LFG problem as it doesn't take much to make your own LFG with your own rules. This is both entitlement and anger that there are no easy groups to just join.

    I agree with you on the lackluster implementation of the strikemissions themselves and of the assumption that they will automatically create a pipeline to raids. If they truly were this ramp to raids you could have constructed them in two ways-
    1) Have the focus on "mechanics" not DPSing like a bounty (Shiverpeak Pass ignoring the jumping-off iceblock moment) or healing through the mechanics (Boneskinner dodge and heal through tactic while ignoring the lights). Allowing those to be like that completely negates the point of having to do mechanics.
    2)have the fight literally in an arena with a preexisting raid boss and dumb down a few of the mechanics ( the easy mode) that way by the time they do the real mode its maybe only 1 or 2 extra mechanics to learn.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    joined yesterday for bone for non kp squads, to get fun and check how it looks. 12 starts, 0 kills.

    Yes. And that is the issue. Groups asking for KPs is not a problem - it's a solution to a problem. The best (even if deeply flawed) solution community managed to come up with. It may not be available for everyone, that's true, but at least it helps some players.

    Of course, that solution makes the whole idea of "stepping stone to raids" seem quite ridiculous, but that's not players' fault.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.