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Cold War Strike

It looks like you can just stack in one spot, Occasionally move due to choppers pull mobs for 6-7 mins and play wack a mole (and a few occasional shoot the choppers in action cam) to max chests; am I missing something ?

The hardest part seems to be getting your chests at the end without burning to death as the fire walls remain in place too long.

Not sure why we have to do this strike 50 times for an achievement/mastery.

Any thoughts about the new strike?

Comments

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Long and underwhelming, people aptly compared it to Trio.
    It feels much like a filler event between fun bosses which drags out for too long and neither the whack-a-mole nor the "bosses" are particularly engaging imo.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @Asum.4960 said:
    Long and underwhelming, people aptly compared it to Trio.
    It feels much like a filler event between fun bosses which drags out for too long and neither the whack-a-mole nor the "bosses" are particularly engaging imo.

    Nah Trio is harder :p

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
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    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    PUGed it yesterday and also did it again today with primarily WvW players.
    I like that downstate is more forgiving than on Whisper of Jormag and that there's more mobs similar to Forging Steel (so it's less about single target damage and cleave is meaningful). In terms of length it is also similar to Forging Steel (which I would say is 3 parts: travel/escort to gate, ruins, then boss fight), except I would characterize it as two halves (bunch of minibosses , then the boss Varinia Stormsounder).
    Builds with large AoE 5 target cleave such as fresh air tempest or holosmith excel here. There's still stack on green and spread on red so it's not as if you can ignore that completely. The charr cars can be pretty much sidestepped.

    I think if you stack 2 condiquickbrands (for quickness/fury/aegis ; tome renews on kill), 1 power banner on dual axe, 1 alacrity renegade , 1 heal tempest , and rest fractal-style power DPS with cleave (fresh air tempest, power sword holo, double axe berserker and split banners, power soulbeast on GS and sword+axe, etc) it's not too bad. I don't feel a scourge is necessary because it doesn't have power cleave and people can be ressed from downstate rather easily.

    If I'm not mistaken the miniboss stage or "half" is what determines the amount of end chests.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this is good strike. May be best. Completed 10+ times. I like it.
    With strong 250KP group with 3 heals completed very nice.
    With non kp group we have fail 100% but nice that progress not lost and we continue and finish. So for non kp group may be it a little bit too hot

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:
    this is good strike. May be best. Completed 10+ times. I like it.
    With strong 250KP group with 3 heals completed very nice.
    With non kp group we have fail 100% but nice that progress not lost and we continue and finish. So for non kp group may be it a little bit too hot

    Why do you need 3 healers ? I did it with 2 - one for each sub squad. The mission seems easy just like Mursatt Overseer as you hardly move and play wack a mole.

    I'm not sure how such easy strike missions act as a bridge between FOTM -> RAIDS: This was meant to be the purpose for strike missions.
    T4 CMs seem harder than many of the strike missions released so far (except Bone Skinner if done right).

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Why do you need 3 healers ? I did it with 2 - one for each sub squad.

    I have my own vision and strategy. For example I for boneskiner I bring 5 heal (2hfb, driud, hscg, alacheal) So for CW strike 3 is optimal (2hfb + druid or hsg)
    I don't say that this is best way. I say that I like that way.

    The mission seems easy just like Mursatt Overseer as you hardly move and play wack a mole.

    sorry, can't compare, I don't go raids usaly. It is too toxic.

    I'm not sure how such easy strike missions act as a bridge between FOTM -> RAIDS: This was meant to be the purpose for strike missions.

    Don't think that strike have some additional purpose. Just only some part of content.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Why do you need 3 healers ? I did it with 2 - one for each sub squad.

    I have my own vision and strategy. For example I for boneskiner I bring 5 heal (2hfb, driud, hscg, alacheal) So for CW strike 3 is optimal (2hfb + druid or hsg)
    I don't say that this is best way. I say that I like that way.

    I wish ANET would stop the cheese strategy of stacking far too many healers - and fix the boneskinner encounter

    The mission seems easy just like Mursatt Overseer as you hardly move and play wack a mole.

    sorry, can't compare, I don't go raids usaly. It is too toxic.

    If you don't go to raids - how do you know ? This seems like a broad brush statement which is factually incorrect. The Mursatt Overseer is a boss which hardly moves and people mostly just do damage moving occasionally and is considered one of the easiest raid bosses.

    I'm not sure how such easy strike missions act as a bridge between FOTM -> RAIDS: This was meant to be the purpose for strike missions.

    Don't think that strike have some additional purpose. Just only some part of content.

    From Andrew Grey at ArenaNet - the purpose of strike missions:
    Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content. As we've mentioned before and you've likely noticed, strike missions are getting harder. Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place, the number of players participating in raids will go up. In addition to that, we're striving to make improvements to Strike Missions themselves to make grouping easier, and to improve the rewards. We hope this will help introduce more people to 10-person content, which will in turn increase the number of people interested in Raids.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray/p1

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    _I wish ANET would stop the cheese strategy of stacking far too many healers - and fix the boneskinner encounter

    It already done. People not get additional gold chest. Who need this leave before start. Make some stronger encounter is mean kill this part content for 95% players, and make it dead as raids.
    For me it will be dead 100%. For many players also. Don't think that this is main target.

    If you don't go to raids - how do you know ? This seems like a broad brush statement which is factually incorrect.

    I currently don't go raids. And yes, I know. Some bosses was killed long time ago once, some bosses killed twice. Some not see at all. People who have less 50-100li and don't start envoy collection - this is people who don't go raid as I understand.

    Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place

    So that enough reduce raid boss damage 30% and remove any encounters. Also make raid achievement not dependable from encounters time. What we see it now and what strike have don't assign with Andrew Grey vision. People not want spend days on golem and spam buttons in specific order and priority.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    Why does it take days to learn how to DPS? It takes 30 mins tops - to improve your DPS to 80% of the benchmarks and you'll be a better player for it.

    Once a full suite of strike missions is complete there should be a graceful ramp up to the existing raid content rather than the imposing leap that previously existed, and our hope is once that ramp is in place

    So that enough reduce raid boss damage 30% and remove any encounters. Also make raid achievement not dependable from encounters time. What we see it now and what strike have don't assign with Andrew Grey vision. People not want spend days on golem and spam buttons in specific order and priority.

    Raid achievements are not based from an encounters time - there is a time limit to kill a boss, however with 8 healers this can be mitigated on many bosses and the first boss Vale Guardian has been solo'd beyond the encounters time.

    The damage from raid bosses in most instances is low as many groups run only one healer - perhaps if you had actually Raided for any length of time you would then be able to make comments that are factual. If damage was reduced by 30% groups would run no healers.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Raid achievements are not based from an encounters time

    so you not read achievements? Some of them depend. You need kill 3 subbosses per some time. Don't remember name, but people who go raids know it.

    there is a time limit to kill a boss, however with 8 healers this can be mitigated on many bosses

    yes, we try 7-8 healers setup in raid long time ago too. It not works, enrage to big. So we should wait then enrage will be removed.

    if you had actually Raided for any length of time

    no, thanks. Raids not for me. My li don't have plan rise grow till some raids nerf.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    Been running a farm squad and we have evolved a cheese strategy:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    Stack center, Chill Grasp everything, Face tank everything with barriers.
    Everything simply melted in the massive stacks of sand shades.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    there is a time limit to kill a boss, however with 8 healers this can be mitigated on many bosses

    yes, we try 7-8 healers setup in raid long time ago too. It not works, enrage to big. So we should wait then enrage will be removed.

    - 3 Man Vale Guardian with enrage timer.
    - Solo Vale Guardian.
    - Solo Spirit Vale
    - Trio Matthias.
    - Solo Cairne

    Yes - its going to take longer, but this is possible to heal through enrage timers.

    Why do they need nerfing if its possible to solo them?

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Been running a farm squad and we have evolved a cheese strategy:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    Stack center, Chill Grasp everything, Face tank everything with barriers.
    Everything simply melted in the massive stacks of sand shades.

    Exactly - this strike mission seems far too easy.

  • Delita Silverburg.8632Delita Silverburg.8632 Member ✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    Haven't tried it yet, but I'll probably just do this once this weekend so I can judge it for not being Wing 8 and then go back to farming Wing 1-7 as that's the only content in this game that challenges me anymore.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    quickens only for 5?

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Why do they need nerfing if its possible to solo them?

    player skill is different. If we tank about content not for 3% yes, it should be nerfed.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    quickens only for 5?

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Why do they need nerfing if its possible to solo them?

    player skill is different. If we tank about content not for 3% yes, it should be nerfed.

    Its 100% possible that over 80% of the population can easily do raids if they are prepared to gear, train and put some practice in.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Its 100% possible that over 80% of the population can easily do raids if they are prepared to gear, train and put some practice in.

    yes. It can possible. But people play game, and that you describe looks as second job for 80%.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    quickens only for 5?

    Yup, consistent quickness isn't that important for Condi Scourge.

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't particularly like having to wait x minutes doing basically nothing because it guarantees that no matter whether my squad is 10 80 boosted newbies or 10 benchmark setting speedrunners it's gonna take forever to complete eitherway, and the champions in the pre event are absolutely trivial.

    The boss fight isn't too bad when you eventually reach it, i wish the charr cars had like 1 second longer before they actually appear and run you over but considering it's a stike it's not too bad. It's a nice transition strike between the likes of icebrood construct and the "extremes" of whisper, IMO. I don't expect any strike to ever be as fulfilling as completing a raid boss is, so while i do think it's a bit boring, i'm also fully aware that this is not content made for me.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    Yes - its going to take longer, but this is possible to heal through enrage timers.

    A few of the easy enrages, sure. Now, try to heal through Samarog, and it gets harder. And there are also the bosses with primary (or secondary) hard wipe enrage mechanics, like Gorse or Sabetha.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    So hang on ... Gorseval can be 4 man'd:

    This has enrage which hard-wipe mechanics... all of the bosses have been low-manned as the timers are honestly there so you dont spend 30 mins - 1 hr killing a boss.
    Many groups will kill them with more than half the time left on the clock.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Been running a farm squad and we have evolved a cheese strategy:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    Stack center, Chill Grasp everything, Face tank everything with barriers.
    Everything simply melted in the massive stacks of sand shades.

    Epi bounce? I think that's the only time it would be faster than power cleave for the first half , no? It plays more like a fractal than a raid up until the boss fight. I guess that comp is probably safer though.

    Next time I do it , will try replicating that comp on 2nd run of the day if I can find that many scourges. I usually run scourges on boneskinner and that's it.

    If things aren't moving torment does less damage than burning and bleeding always does less damage, which is why my squad had 2x condi QB and the rest on power builds. The burning on scourge is from Dhuumfire (so 8s base cooldown on sand shades) , Torment combined with Demonic Lore (so essentially on 8s base cooldown too , plus the additional torment off of scepter 3 / torch 5), torch 4 on 20 base cooldown and Plaguelands (elite). I feel that condi QB burn (+15% burn damage with Amplified Wrath), especially with a high amount of mobs to recharge the tome, has a higher cleave. With holo/GS soulbeast/warrior/FA tempest the cooldown is rather low on the 5 target cleave (Corona Burst/Photon Blitz/PF autos, Maul , Cyclone Axe, dragon's tooth/shatterstone/overload air).

    With 6x condi scourges in a coordinated bomb it would be ~ 12 stacks of burn off the shades (1 stack from Dhuumfire, 1 from Demonic Lore). If at 1900 condition damage the burn would be ~5K per second in burn with 12 stacks plus ~181 per torment (~1K or so a second for 6) which is only comparable to a critical hit from a power build (most power builds have 1/2 second attack speeds). Even if the targets move at 1900 condition damage the torment tick is ~270/second (~1.6K for 6 scourges).

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    Been running a farm squad and we have evolved a cheese strategy:
    1 x healbrand, 1x Alac Gade, 1x Banner Slave, 1x Heal Scourge(No Golem), 6x Condi Scourge

    Stack center, Chill Grasp everything, Face tank everything with barriers.
    Everything simply melted in the massive stacks of sand shades.

    Epi bounce? I think that's the only time it would be faster than power cleave for the first half , no? It plays more like a fractal than a raid up until the boss fight. I guess that comp is probably safer though.

    Next time I do it , will try replicating that comp on 2nd run of the day if I can find that many scourges. I usually run scourges on boneskinner and that's it.

    If things aren't moving torment does less damage than burning and bleeding always does less damage, which is why my squad had 2x condi QB and the rest on power builds. The burning on scourge is from Dhuumfire (so 8s base cooldown on sand shades) , Torment combined with Demonic Lore (so essentially on 8s base cooldown too , plus the additional torment off of scepter 3 / torch 5), torch 4 on 20 base cooldown and Plaguelands (elite). I feel that condi QB burn (+15% burn damage with Amplified Wrath), especially with a high amount of mobs to recharge the tome, has a higher cleave. With holo/GS soulbeast/warrior/FA tempest the cooldown is rather low on the 5 target cleave (Corona Burst/Photon Blitz/PF autos, Maul , Cyclone Axe, dragon's tooth/shatterstone/overload air).

    With 6x condi scourges in a coordinated bomb it would be ~ 12 stacks of burn off the shades (1 stack from Dhuumfire, 1 from Demonic Lore). If at 1900 condition damage the burn would be ~5K per second in burn with 12 stacks plus ~181 per torment (~1K or so a second for 6) which is only comparable to a critical hit from a power build (most power builds have 1/2 second attack speeds). Even if the targets move at 1900 condition damage the torment tick is ~270/second (~1.6K for 6 scourges).

    No epidemic, adds melt too quick within the sand shades.
    Combined that with the huge radius over Spectral Grasp for speed clear between boss phases.

    Combined barrier plus cleanse from 6 Scourges easily negate pulsing damage from the final boss and the Helicop, therefore the squad can concentrate AoE attack onto the boss with minimal movements.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 28, 2020

    Is the boss combination random? I've had different bosses and I guess its lowkey a dps check when it comes down to how many bosses you can kill before the last boss? I'm still waiting on the icey elbow drop!!! I have no doubt (like they did with Boneskinner) that they will tighten up the mechanics.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Haven't done it yet. What seems to be the average time to complete it?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Haven't done it yet. What seems to be the average time to complete it?

    15 min tops.
    8 min for first half with 7 min limit for the boss fight.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    Haven't done it yet. What seems to be the average time to complete it?

    15 min tops.
    8 min for first half with 7 min limit for the boss fight.

    Oh nice, ok. I was worried it would be like the Warband one, when I first did it took like 45 mins lol.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Long compared to other Strike Missions, but not close to Forging Steel yet. Just stack to kill minnions and 3 champs(punch bags). Final boss is a massive reinforced punch bag. Boring overall.

    Entire strike is based on 1 timer(?). Which makes it success or failure, without worrying about gold/silver/bronze participation which makes it similar to raid which seems more appropriate.

  • It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    So hang on ... Gorseval can be 4 man'd:

    no matter they do that 4, 3, or solo. That not have any tie whit common and real. Currently we have a lot of stats, people use cleric/carrion on dps biulds, use they own biuld, and do 3k dps, and happy on common 3 strikes. Why we should steal this from them??? Take normal people with ptv stats, roleplay roation, take seraps healers and go try Cold War. If CW strike valid - this ok, if not - this is dead content.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    So hang on ... Gorseval can be 4 man'd:

    no matter they do that 4, 3, or solo. That not have any tie whit common and real. Currently we have a lot of stats, people use cleric/carrion on dps biulds, use they own biuld, and do 3k dps, and happy on common 3 strikes. Why we should steal this from them??? Take normal people with ptv stats, roleplay roation, take seraps healers and go try Cold War. If CW strike valid - this ok, if not - this is dead content.

    This is why - there is an expectation that you should gear up; if your playing in pvt gear in any content mode there is massive room for improvement and learn how the combat system works properly.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2020

    If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

    Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

    You can have one, or the other, but not both. And yet the game wants to have both. And when it causes a ton of problems, everyone's suddenly surprised for some reason.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

    If we consider that there exists people with low enough experience that they need tank gear to survive, then it isn't wrong to have said gear stats available. Granted, low skill players are unlikely to survive if they don't have these sets available. At the same time, if they are aware of their skills, they are unlikely to step into higher level fractals, raids, or even strikes.

    The game has different tiers of difficulty exactly because it tries to hold on to as many kinds of players as possible. Ideally, if said tiers had a progressive learning curve to them, then players would have a learning path until reaching their own peak performance where they are comfortable at.

    Finally, I don't think there's an inherently useless stat combination, since even the tankiest sets could be used to build a group support character. A useless build would be one that is built around survival entirely while not contributing to others in any way (be it healing, barriers, boons, damage reduction or cleanses), but that's because it is a build that offers nothing to the group effort, not even the basics of DPS.

    I'd say that pretty much every set can find some use (even if niche), but once requirements come into play, the usable selection narrows itself to those which meet them.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

    Since ANET has said the point of the strike missions is to lead to raids....they need to keep up with that theme. The Cold War strike reminded me of the dragonbash holo instance. If they want to give us different flavor strikes that's good but always add raid mechanics MAYBE even from the current raid i.e. the Vale Guardian fight is the Shiverpeak boss etc etc.

    I played Cold War today and I guess they added new abilities because their ice powers are different and deadlier now (ice fields, ice reflects and blizzards).

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
    It's not a very compelling Strike Mission. The bosses are punching bags with just a lot of health, and the rest is just spamming of weak mobs while you stay in one place. But it IS different from the other Strike Missions, and perhaps that is the point. But I don't find it that fun to do. Most of the Strike Missions are just a short boss battle, which means it doesn't outstay its welcome. The Forging Steel mission is a lot longer, but has a lot of variety in it, plus a fun boss battle. This new one feels long, but without the variety.

    Since ANET has said the point of the strike missions is to lead to raids....they need to keep up with that theme. The Cold War strike reminded me of the dragonbash holo instance. If they want to give us different flavor strikes that's good but always add raid mechanics MAYBE even from the current raid i.e. the Vale Guardian fight is the Shiverpeak boss etc etc.

    I played Cold War today and I guess they added new abilities because their ice powers are different and deadlier now (ice fields, ice reflects and blizzards).

    A mini patch? Felt the same for me though.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

    ? So you mean that 80%+ stat combination is useless and should be removed ? But how I understand very big value people play gw because we have this spirit of freedom.

    Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

    this is not problem. This is problem only in raids, in on some strikes. 90% people who I know from gw2 not use solid zerk or viper .. And they feel ok.So may be something wrong wht raids and some strikes? On ColdWar they feel not very good, but eatable too. So make nerf fo ColdWar is good idea..

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

    Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

    You can have one, or the other, but not both. And yet the game wants to have both. And when it causes a ton of problems, everyone's suddenly surprised for some reason.

    More like the stats are not suitable for the task.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2020

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Entire strike is based on 1 timer(?). Which makes it success or failure, without worrying about gold/silver/bronze participation which makes it similar to raid which seems more appropriate.

    thats not entirely true. there is no bronze/silver/gold ranking, but you get more loot chests if you finish it faster.
    best i could do after pugging it 3 times was 7 extra chests.
    by the way they are arranged around the main chest i would say max is 8 or 9.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    If PVT is a wrong gear set to wear, then perhaps it shouldn't even exist. And definitely the game should not offer it as a leveling gear/level 80 boost gear set.

    ? So you mean that 80%+ stat combination is useless and should be removed ? But how I understand very big value people play gw because we have this spirit of freedom.

    Problem is, on one hand the game promotes the idea of many different stat sets, and using the gear you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, it introduces content where 90% of those gear sets are pretty much worthless.

    this is not problem. This is problem only in raids, in on some strikes. 90% people who I know from gw2 not use solid zerk or viper .. And they feel ok.So may be something wrong wht raids and some strikes? On ColdWar they feel not very good, but eatable too. So make nerf fo ColdWar is good idea..

    There is a difference between viability (or rather even being optimal) in PvE endgame and the right to exist.

    Just because something is very much so suboptimal to run in endgame PvE content doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place somewhere else in the game, no matter how niche (although ofc a certain choice ideally isn't bad everywhere, which would make it indeed pointless).

    Neither does all content need to be adjusted down to be playable with all suboptimal Gear or Trait choices for that particular type of content in the name of "freedom".

    If every piece of content is so easy it doesn't matter what and how you play then that is the best way to invalidate any choices players can make, at which point you might as well remove Gear stats, Traits and any other character customisation, because they would not matter anymore.

    Freedom of choice does not mean freedom from consequence of those choices. Yes, there are better and worse choices for certain content, that is what makes it interesting to have choices in the first place and engaging to know what to pick when and where.
    If all choices do roughly the same thing at the same efficacy everywhere, there is no point to having a choice at all, nor to get engaged with the game and it's systems to be able to make those choices in an informed way.

    Certain stat combinations being superior in certain content for certain players though is neither a problem with the stat sets nor the content, neither is rewarding players for game understanding and adaptability problematic.

    What a strange concept to want the entire world to adapt to your bad choices rather than striving for self-improvement. So no, there is not something wrong with Raids or Strikes, that mentality is.
    A certain stat combination that happens to be bad in certain content is not a fundamental part of your personality that Anet is not giving you the freedom to express, it's just a gear stat block. If you want to strive for that type of content, make a different choice for that. Improve, adapt. It's fine.
    If not, then there is plenty (the majority) of other content in which you can do whatever already (which arguably is the problem).

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2020

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Just because something is very much so suboptimal to run in endgame PvE content doesn't mean that it doesn't have a place somewhere else in the game, no matter how niche (although ofc a certain choice ideally isn't bad everywhere, which would make it indeed pointless).

    Indeed, but you'd really want such choices to be superior in at least one place. Place that preferably is not so niche to be practically unimportant. If you have choices that are suboptimal everywhere (and GW2 is full of such choices, both in gearsets and in traitlines), then that is ideed a sign of bad design.

    Neither does all content need to be adjusted down to be playable with all suboptimal Gear or Trait choices for that particular type of content in the name of "freedom".

    If every piece of content is so easy it doesn't matter what and how you play then that is the best way to invalidate any choices players can make, at which point you might as well remove Gear stats, Traits and any other character customisation, because they would not matter anymore.

    Freedom of choice does not mean freedom from consequence of those choices. Yes, there are better and worse choices for certain content, that is what makes it interesting to have choices in the first place and engaging to know what to pick when and where.

    It is okay to have a freedom of choice, and its okay for those choices to have consequences. If you make the consequences as massive as they are in gw2 however, you should then not be surprised that it results in massive effectiveness disparity. And yet, hearing devs, they consider this disparity to be a problem. Something they'd rather not have. All the stuff they do under the "bridge to raids" banner is them trying to make that disparity smaller, and the gap easier to cross. Which is pointless, because it is something created by the core systems. If they truly intend to address it, nothing short of adjustments to those core systems will do. Anything they do that does not touch the root cause of this is just a smokescreen. So, they should either address the real problem, or decide this is exactly what they wanted to have and go forward from that.

    And it's not even like they originally hoped that more people will make the right choices, and just ended up disappointed by reality. No, it's worse - a lot of things they've done in the past strongly suggests, that when they designed this system they were completely unaware of what the "right choices" would be, and that the disparity will end up being this large.

    If all choices do roughly the same thing at the same efficacy everywhere, there is no point to having a choice at all, nor to get engaged with the game and it's systems to be able to make those choices in an informed way.

    True, but all choices should still have around the same efficacy somewhere. And yet what we get is reality where some very few choices end up being far more useful overall than most others.

    Certain stat combinations being superior in certain content for certain players though is neither a problem with the stat sets nor the content, neither is rewarding players for game understanding and adaptability problematic.

    If that's what you want to have, then it isn't problematic. In fact, there are whole games that are built around those assumption and are completely fine. Problems start when the devs themselves start saying that they find the consequences of that kind of design to be troublesome.

    A certain stat combination that happens to be bad in certain content is not a fundamental part of your personality that Anet is not giving you the freedom to express, it's just a gear stat block. If you want to strive for that type of content, make a different choice for that. Improve, adapt. It's fine.
    If not, then there is plenty (the majority) of other content in which you can do whatever already (which arguably is the problem).

    Again, you're missing the point. The point being that those subpar choices are still subpar even in that other content where players "can do whatever".

    The game tells you "pick your weapon", and then offers you a pile of sticks. The fact that the stick you picked up is enough for most places does not change the fact, that some of these "sticks", that seemingly look the same as the one you picked, are in fact swords. And some are guns or even laser cannons.

    When the game offers you choices, it's generally a choice between good and bad options (with bad options being prevalent). It's not really a choice - it's a test. Test most players will fail, because there's nothing in the game that would tell you which answers are good ones and which are wrong. In order to find that out you'd have to check every single combination yourself, in all the possible situations, and only then you might be able to see which ones are better and which ones are worse (and sometimes not even then - compare pre-dps meter meta assuptions with past-dps meter ones. There was a lot of things even the most informed and knowledgeable players got wrong when they were relying only on the game itself).

    If the choice is to be meanigful, it should offer things that are of generally similar usefulness (even if not necessarily for the same situations). In gw2, that is not the case.

    Basically, GW2 is a game whose build and combat systems are designed in such a way as to ensure that huge majority of players will be really, really bad.
    And if someone thinks that this design goal is completely fine, then they later should not be complaining about bad players everywhere.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    Basically, GW2 is a game whose build and combat systems are designed in such a way as to ensure that huge majority of players will be really, really bad.
    And if someone thinks that this design goal is completely fine, then they later should not be complaining about bad players everywhere.

    I will say that I do wish it was stressed more IN-GAME that the difficulty of bossess/instances is on this general level determined by ARENANET with considerations such as (allegedly) having ascended weapons, armor and accessories as well as having food buffs, utility buffs and traits that synergize well. They have this reasonable expectation that players are adhering to this to lower the difficulty of encounters and I am perfectly ok with that; its just not talked about IN-GAME that well or at all. You certainly have the freedom to not have buffs, ascended gear or relevant traits but I do hope they stress somewhere, anywhere, in the game that your play experience will be much better, survivable, and viable if you check off all those boxes.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    TINY runs strikes every night. Last night we were short-handed with only seven people, but we decided to try Cold War anyway. We had our usual two healers: the heal tempest who filmed this, and my Charr heal scourge. I think the Firebrand was chipping in some side support as well. Everyone else was DPS. Everyone in the group had at least some experience in strikes and/or raids. It wasn't pretty and we barely beat the timer, but the point is simply that we were able to beat the mission short-handed with a "less than meta" group. So I think that if you're considering strikes as "intro to raids" as Anet suggests, then the difficulty on this is right where it needs to be. YMMV.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

    But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

    But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

    The problem, at least as we've seen it in TINY, is that people are intimidated by strike missions.

    • People think strikes are harder than they are.
    • People think their gear or skills aren't good enough.
    • People are afraid of the "meta" toxicity that has bled over from raids into strikes.
    • People are afraid of meeting incompetence and/or toxicity in PUGs, which is part of why TINY does strikes shorthanded rather than invite strangers. We have kids in our guild and rules to protect them, and we've learned the hard way just how indecent some people can be.
    • Bottom line, people don't like being scared, and of course, nobody likes failing.

    Therefore, I think overcoming people's fear of strike missions, for all of the above reasons, is the real challenge that both we and Anet face with this particular mode of the game.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I can't seem to ever find a group for this. I don't prioritize strikes at this stage, and even though I tend to do my dailies at off peak times, I never had trouble getting any of the other strikes, including Steel, especially when they were the daily.

    But this one? Even when it is the daily, LFG is always empty. I decided to just tag up and open an LFG group, despite never having done it before, and got it completed for the 1st Mastery Point, but I doubt I'll finish it 14 more times for the 2nd one at this rate. Don't care about the bear skins (have 2 already unlocked from WvW/PvP reward tracks) and I already finished the No Quarter meta achievement, so don't plan on doing it 50 times total...but I wouldn't mind getting that last mastery point.

    The problem, at least as we've seen it in TINY, is that people are intimidated by strike missions.

    • People think strikes are harder than they are.
    • People think their gear or skills aren't good enough.
    • People are afraid of the "meta" toxicity that has bled over from raids into strikes.
    • People are afraid of meeting incompetence and/or toxicity in PUGs, which is part of why TINY does strikes shorthanded rather than invite strangers. We have kids in our guild and rules to protect them, and we've learned the hard way just how indecent some people can be.
    • Bottom line, people don't like being scared, and of course, nobody likes failing.

    Therefore, I think overcoming people's fear of strike missions, for all of the above reasons, is the real challenge that both we and Anet face with this particular mode of the game.

    I agree with your points, but still, I never have trouble finding a group in LFG for any of the other strike missions, even Whisper or Boneskinner. I'm not talking about groups who complete the strike vs. wipes, I mean I'm not seeing any groups for Cold War in LFG at all. Does this mean that people dislike this strike that much more than others? I have no idea. It certainly didn't seem harder than Boneskinner or Whisper, or any longer than the Steel Legion one. I'm at a loss to explain why.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I agree with your points, but still, I never have trouble finding a group in LFG for any of the other strike missions, even Whisper or Boneskinner. I'm not talking about groups who complete the strike vs. wipes, I mean I'm not seeing any groups for Cold War in LFG at all. Does this mean that people dislike this strike that much more than others? I have no idea. It certainly didn't seem harder than Boneskinner or Whisper, or any longer than the Steel Legion one. I'm at a loss to explain why.

    I think it's several things...

    • The length of Cold War definitely puts off many people, self included. You can hear me mention that in the video, that I wish we could just fight the boss without all the kitten preamble. People are also rightly angry that Morale Breaker requires you to grind this mission 50 KITTEN TIMES!!!!! Between those two things, many people have decided that if they can't do Cold War quickly, they won't do it at all. In fact, I think that's probably the biggest strike against it.
    • Many people (particularly those used to raid tiers in WoW) probably think that because Cold War is the newest strike mission, it must be the hardest, but it's really not. Personally, I would place it between the bears and Whisper in difficulty.
    • The Morale Breaker achievement not rewarding properly was bad publicity. That's been fixed now.
    • The changing mechanics from week to week, and the semi-mysterious criteria for how much loot you get, are firsts in GW2 and weird to many people. No doubt those things are still being actively observed and adjusted by Anet.
  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    Lengthy, long drawn out fight with open world's Bounty Board level of difficulties. 3 Bounty Champ(1 at a time) followed by the Boss. Minnions swarming in before every encounter.

    Not keen of this Strike. Fog surrounds the entire ring, there's no scenery together with repetitive music for entire fight (18-25mins) :frown:. Clunky with the ring locking out players temporarily when started. Confusing toggle and message when bazooka ran out of ammo. Bulky enemies, making their movement animation as if in slow motion :sleepy:. Rng rewards but mostly blues, greens and few rares.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Lengthy, long drawn out fight with open world's Bounty Board level of difficulties. 3 Bounty Champ(1 at a time) followed by the Boss. Minnions swarming in before every encounter.

    Not keen of this Strike. Fog surrounds the entire ring, there's no scenery together with repetitive music for entire fight (18-25mins) :frown:. Clunky with the ring locking out players temporarily when started. Confusing toggle and message when bazooka ran out of ammo. Bulky enemies, making their movement animation as if in slow motion :sleepy:. Rng rewards but mostly blues, greens and few rares.

    I have a hard time even getting the white dot so I can hit with charzooka, why couldent it have been the bomber charzooka from the map with homing missiles.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    To be honest, that one's a snoozefest if you have a couple players with raid/fractal experience. Only dangerous thing is the assassins during Varenia and even that isn't an issue if people are aware of that mech's existence. Kitty personally would rather skip it during all strikes-runs but people want to do it for daily. At least at other bosses you don't waste half the time just waiting between champs.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    I like some trash mobs and some champs or mini bosses. But make them interesting and furious not boring and repetitive. With some change of scenery.