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Is the commander on the wrong side of the war? (No quarter spoilers)

Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited May 29, 2020 in Living World

Overall it was a great episode. I will definitely replay it with voice acting.

However, for me the story had the effect of a mini "Game of Thrones" / "Three Houses" as I really really liked the Steel Warband. They all had a personality and playing their instance day after day for weeks with Forged Steel kinda gives you a sense of familiarity. I was actually hoping they were going to be part of the new cast in the long term.
I get why they did it story wise, but I can't help but feel that one, they got dealt with way too quickly and more importantly that "the commander" has simply chosen the wrong allies. I hate pretty much all the legion imperators (except the flame one, he's chill :)). The opposite side has Bangar, which is just as bad as Smodur, but at least the Steel Warband followed a leader they loved and didn't strike me as people who would have killed their own. They were a group of underdogs I was very thrilled to follow, maybe in parallel to the commander's story with more visions.

So, while the mixed, bitter feelings were probably intended (and in my case worked really well), I don't know that I will care much about what happens next as it "doesn't feel good" to be playing the commander right now. Certainly hoping Ryland gets revenge. That somehow the commander swap sides. But since Jormag is involved I don't see that happening either. Don't want yet another Braham drama :D

Comments

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:
    Having 'allies' with conflicting and detrimental morals, and us struggling to deal with them because we can't afford to lose anymore allies, could be a cool story element if they play it out right. And fix Smodur's IQ dive.

    At this moment it's too late to fix it. Instead, i hope they will reasonably explain it (i see several options they could use already). If they can do it, everything will be okay. If they can't (or haven't even thought they need to explain it anthing about it), we'll run into some major problems.

    I definitely see an internal fallout coming up and a very frustrated Commander in the future.

    I'd say that the story so far points to a charr nation fracturing again, possibly even with bigger changes to their structure.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2020

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    "Steel Warband followed a leader they loved and didn't strike me as people who would have killed their own."

    You do know that all the vilages and the mine that we see on the map had people living and working on it right? Norn, Humans and Tengu used to live in that region, and you know what happened to them? Killed in cold blood, no prisoners...if you think that this is the "right side" them I dont know what to say to you...Steel and every other charr that is following Bangar are war criminals, no better then the Sons of Svanir, Inquest, White Mantle, etc.

    It's not like the Steel Warband is the "right" side. It's as if at this point both sides are wrong ones.

    Also, funny thing you'd say that last part. Last i heard, both Sons of Svanir and Inquest, even if frowned upon, were still considered to be parts of their respective racial communities. They even have official presence in their racial capital cities.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    "Steel Warband followed a leader they loved and didn't strike me as people who would have killed their own."

    You do know that all the vilages and the mine that we see on the map had people living and working on it right? Norn, Humans and Tengu used to live in that region, and you know what happened to them? Killed in cold blood, no prisoners...if you think that this is the "right side" them I dont know what to say to you...Steel and every other charr that is following Bangar are war criminals, no better then the Sons of Svanir, Inquest, White Mantle, etc.

    It's not like the Steel Warband is the "right" side. It's as if at this point both sides are wrong ones.

    Also, funny thing you'd say that last part. Last i heard, both Sons of Svanir and Inquest, even if frowned upon, were still considered to be parts of their respective racial communities. They even have official presence in their racial capital cities.

    Sons of Svanir are not frowned upon by the Norn culture.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sons_of_Svanir
    "According to the individualistic norn culture, the Sons of Svanir as a group are not evil, nor are they viewed as such."

    Even the inquest is not frowned upon within Asura, indeed they have a councilor on the arcane council, the difference with the other colleges lies in their internal structure.

    As long as Inquest and Sons of Svanir are not seen as threats by the societies in which they live they will have no problem coexisting with others.
    But I think it would end up very similar to the Charr war if they openly declared war on another faction.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:
    "Steel Warband followed a leader they loved and didn't strike me as people who would have killed their own."

    You do know that all the vilages and the mine that we see on the map had people living and working on it right? Norn, Humans and Tengu used to live in that region, and you know what happened to them? Killed in cold blood, no prisoners...if you think that this is the "right side" them I dont know what to say to you...Steel and every other charr that is following Bangar are war criminals, no better then the Sons of Svanir, Inquest, White Mantle, etc.

    It's not like the Steel Warband is the "right" side. It's as if at this point both sides are wrong ones.

    Also, funny thing you'd say that last part. Last i heard, both Sons of Svanir and Inquest, even if frowned upon, were still considered to be parts of their respective racial communities. They even have official presence in their racial capital cities.

    Tell me how this whole situation is not black and white as it can get...Steel Warband is worst or equal then any other evil faction that we slayed at this point in the game, just cause you played a Strike Mission with those characters and ended up liking them, it dosent make them any right, in fact, Ulgoth and the Centaurs are the ones people should be making this kinds of threads, not Ryland, Ryland is a war criminal, he made his choice, he choose to steal Braham bow, he choose to follow Bangar, he choose to kill Almorra, he choose to kill in cold blood all the people of Drizzlewood Coast...gonna try to tell me that Smordur is a villain cause the military leader is doing court-martial against menbers of his nation that choosed to betray and desert? Get out of here lol

    "Also, funny thing you'd say that last part. Last i heard, both Sons of Svanir and Inquest, even if frowned upon, were still considered to be parts of their respective racial communities. They even have official presence in their racial capital cities."

    And i dont see how this have anything to deal with anything...if the Norns are cool with the Svanir and the Asura with the Inquest, it dosent make them "right".

  • casualkenny.9817casualkenny.9817 Member ✭✭✭

    Iirc norn kill sons of swine all the time outside of hoelbrak. Mostly because sons of swine kill norn all the time. Vaguely remember some npc chat explaining while there were even any of them allowed in hoelbrak, but I forgot

    Rats have a different yardstick. They are amoral, and the greatest good is found in sating their scientific thirst. Remember teyo and her inquest attempting to kill you right in the middle of the snaff's prize contest? And the others (including councillors) just watching? If a random non-inquest asura saw an inquest scientist conducting inquesty experiments on some random human villager, odds are very high that he might be too fascinated with the experimental results to even notice that the human is screaming on the table. (look at taimi and zojja and the bros)

    Ever wonder what might happen if bangar finds a steel legion member trying to defect back to the united legion? Lol. You think smodur is bad. And Ryland Ren is being trained by imperator bangar right now.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2020

    I think they tried too hard to implant that very question in our minds, and it ended up being very poorly executed in my opinion. Our character is made to express horror at Smodur's ruthlessness, and has suddenly bought into a rushed narrative that Charr-on-Charr violence (which is far from new) is suddenly an existential threat to the species. Also, I have NO idea what is so much more distasteful about dropping a nade down a vent into a military facility, in comparison to a great many things the Commander did already. Treason is not taken very lightly even in peacetime, and in times of civil war it's often swiftly punished. Not seeing Smodur too far out of line as a wartime imperator faced with a more organized, determined, and well-equipped opposition than he's faced in a lifetime, but this latest episode tried waaaaay too hard to have my character gasping in privileged suburban horror.

    To me, it's pretty clear that the Commander really doesn't have any reason to side with Bangar and friends. That's not to say that the United Legions are necessarily the 'right' team to play for, but that certainly doesn't make team Bangar any better.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it is worth noting that the Steel Warband wasn't necessarily involved in the apparent genocide of Drizzlewood's original population - they may have come in later. That said, though, we have clear evidence that Ryland at least is bigot - his trigger for walking out of the first negotiation was basically "How dare you fraternise with humans!"

    And as people have said, just because there are personable individuals among a group doesn't mean that group is right.

    Regarding the Svanir - norn culture does tolerate membership of the Sons of Svanir. Hoelbrak does have a ruler (Knut) and a guard (the Wolfborn) - if they were so inclined, they could kick the Sons of Svanir out (although any such policy would end at the edge of Hoelbrak). However, norn culture doesn't judge anybody based on their affiliation, but on what they have actually done themselves. Sons of Svanir that are out killing people, raiding homesteads, forcefully converting people into icebroods, and so on are regarded as threats and dealt with accordingly, but this is because they're committing crimes themselves, not simply because they're Sons of Svanir. Sons of Svanir that chill out in the Veins of the Dragon being misogynist dudebros are left alone until they actually do something that marks them as a threat to other norn.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I think it is worth noting that the Steel Warband wasn't necessarily involved in the apparent genocide of Drizzlewood's original population - they may have come in later. That said, though, we have clear evidence that Ryland at least is bigot - his trigger for walking out of the first negotiation was basically "How dare you fraternise with humans!"

    And as people have said, just because there are personable individuals among a group doesn't mean that group is right.

    Regarding the Svanir - norn culture does tolerate membership of the Sons of Svanir. Hoelbrak does have a ruler (Knut) and a guard (the Wolfborn) - if they were so inclined, they could kick the Sons of Svanir out (although any such policy would end at the edge of Hoelbrak). However, norn culture doesn't judge anybody based on their affiliation, but on what they have actually done themselves. Sons of Svanir that are out killing people, raiding homesteads, forcefully converting people into icebroods, and so on are regarded as threats and dealt with accordingly, but this is because they're committing crimes themselves, not simply because they're Sons of Svanir. Sons of Svanir that chill out in the Veins of the Dragon being misogynist dudebros are left alone until they actually do something that marks them as a threat to other norn.

    Wouldn't it be funny if the Crystal Bloom guys started converting sons of svanir with 'Well your dragon is cool and all, but have you met our lord and savior Aurene she can travel the mists and everyone knows crystals are better than ice'.

  • Zaxares.5419Zaxares.5419 Member ✭✭✭

    With regards to the Inquest and Svanir, they're accepted in their respective societies, but for different reasons. The Inquest are not so much a single monolithic organisation than a large number of fairly independent krewes (some larger than others) that all ascribe to a similar "the ends justify the means" amoral approach to R&D. The Arcane Council may officially disapprove of how the Inquest get their research data, but when push comes to shove, the Council is still all too happy to make use of that research themselves. They don't want to dirty their own hands, but since the data's already here, why let it go to waste?

    As for the Sons of Svanir, conversations with many Svanir, especially on early maps, make it clear that they do not worship Jormag. They worship "Dragon", and they believe that Jormag (and the other Elder Dragons) are simply the most powerful specimens of their kind, and a conduit through which they can receive Dragon's blessings (never mind the fact that no actual Dragon Spirit has been found or contacted). It's a deluded way of thinking, of course, and any Svanir who joins under the belief that they can gain Dragon's blessing without falling prey to Jormag's corruption is destined for a very rude awakening, although the indoctrination is slow and thorough until by the point they become Icebrood, they belong heart and soul to Jormag anyway.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    I think it is worth noting that the Steel Warband wasn't necessarily involved in the apparent genocide of Drizzlewood's original population - they may have come in later. That said, though, we have clear evidence that Ryland at least is bigot - his trigger for walking out of the first negotiation was basically "How dare you fraternise with humans!"

    And as people have said, just because there are personable individuals among a group doesn't mean that group is right.

    Regarding the Svanir - norn culture does tolerate membership of the Sons of Svanir. Hoelbrak does have a ruler (Knut) and a guard (the Wolfborn) - if they were so inclined, they could kick the Sons of Svanir out (although any such policy would end at the edge of Hoelbrak). However, norn culture doesn't judge anybody based on their affiliation, but on what they have actually done themselves. Sons of Svanir that are out killing people, raiding homesteads, forcefully converting people into icebroods, and so on are regarded as threats and dealt with accordingly, but this is because they're committing crimes themselves, not simply because they're Sons of Svanir. Sons of Svanir that chill out in the Veins of the Dragon being misogynist dudebros are left alone until they actually do something that marks them as a threat to other norn.

    Wouldn't it be funny if the Crystal Bloom guys started converting sons of svanir with 'Well your dragon is cool and all, but have you met our lord and savior Aurene she can travel the mists and everyone knows crystals are better than ice'.

    The thought has crossed my mind that Aurene could be presented as a better representative for Dragon than Jormag. Problem is that Aurene, for all her power, doesn't have the 'ultimate predator' aspect that the Sons of Svanir are looking for, and the Crystal Bloom have too many girls for the liking of the Svanir guys and joining the Crystal Bloom might give them cooties. It's probably more likely that any Aurene-affiliated group would be a rival organisation rather than getting a lot of converts from the Sons of Svanir.

    They might become very popular for ex-Svanir who turned away of their own accord, though.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    The opposite side has Bangar, which is just as bad as Smodur

    To be fair Smodur wasn't really that much of a kitten. Idk what direction Anet is trying to take but before this episode Smodur was clearly a good candidate to become a khan-ur but now he's just some excitedly-arrogant serious bussiness dude with a sense of superiority that commits war crimes in order to win.
    I still like Smodur as an imperator, but i'm gonna go ahead, call this out and say Anet is pulling a braham on Smodur. He surely doesn't deserve it and its just an excuse to give him a bad reputation.

    Malice Swordshadow: You are not Khan-Ur. No one here will ever bow to you.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

    well, if the dragon wins, the war will be over. PEACE IN TYRIA
    considering how many we have killed until now, the result is clearly not worth the effort

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

    well, if the dragon wins, the war will be over. PEACE IN TYRIA
    considering how many we have killed until now, the result is clearly not worth the effort

    Better fight than get enslaved. Elder Dragons are not dictators you can just wait for their death.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

    well, if the dragon wins, the war will be over. PEACE IN TYRIA
    considering how many we have killed until now, the result is clearly not worth the effort

    Better fight than get enslaved. Elder Dragons are not dictators you can just wait for their death.

    i have killed zhaitan on several toons. the biggest impact, was the mastery point i got.
    i have NOT done it on most toons, but i could still play the following content
    waiting is EXACTLY the right thing for me to do

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

    well, if the dragon wins, the war will be over. PEACE IN TYRIA
    considering how many we have killed until now, the result is clearly not worth the effort

    Better fight than get enslaved. Elder Dragons are not dictators you can just wait for their death.

    i have killed zhaitan on several toons. the biggest impact, was the mastery point i got.
    i have NOT done it on most toons, but i could still play the following content
    waiting is EXACTLY the right thing for me to do

    You're confusing gameplay and story

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    none of them are worth fighting for. just let nature (or war) run its course. im done running errands for them, just let the dragon of the month devour them all

    If you let Jormag get an army, he'll be an even bigger threat than he currently is. So get back doing errands for Smodur !

    dont care, they can all get bent. not worth the time and effort. perhaps jormag is even BETTER, than them , who knows?

    Fighting two separate armies is easier than fighting a big one. How could it be better ?

    well, if the dragon wins, the war will be over. PEACE IN TYRIA
    considering how many we have killed until now, the result is clearly not worth the effort

    Better fight than get enslaved. Elder Dragons are not dictators you can just wait for their death.

    i have killed zhaitan on several toons. the biggest impact, was the mastery point i got.
    i have NOT done it on most toons, but i could still play the following content
    waiting is EXACTLY the right thing for me to do

    You're confusing gameplay and story

    this game has some of the most gameplay filled story i have ever seen
    in fact, i have skipped most of the story BECAUSE of the gameplay
    its a shame , because i really liked the last zone. some of their best work EVER imo

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:
    Well, considering that the opposing side involves getting icebrooded I'd say the Commander is on the correct end of the stick. But yeah, our allies aren't as heroic as we would've hoped, but that honestly makes me more interested in how the rest of the story would play out. Our alliances in the past were pretty smooth sailing; someone stands against us? Beat 'em up. Someone is helping us? Turns out they have the same goals in mind so they're cool.
    Having 'allies' with conflicting and detrimental morals, and us struggling to deal with them because we can't afford to lose anymore allies, could be a cool story element if they play it out right. And fix Smodur's IQ dive.
    I definitely see an internal fallout coming up and a very frustrated Commander in the future.

    Since the commander is aurenes champion, the commander is pretty much way too late to regret joining with dragons and their "prophecies". You can say that the commander hasn't been corrupted but can we be sure of that? After all, the commander just follows blindly without questioning anything, even as asura/charr/norn (yes, i know all the races are human after 30 personal story but still...).

    I wonder if/when aurene forces the commander to do what they don't want to do, will they realise they are not in full control or are they too far gone? Maybe choose to fight back.

    I realise that anet will never do this because "chosen hero" but... would be more interesting, possibly.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    If you side with any Charr you are on the wrong side. Restore human Ascalon lets go.