Side Node Meta is AWFUL

https://clips.twitch.tv/VastRoundDootHassanChop

In a high level tournament setting, two players just /dance because there's no point in even fighting when neither of them can kill the other. Is this what you want your game to look like Anet?

If this doesn't show how much of a JOKE the combat has become, I don't know what will.

If you nerf ranger more this wont be the case!

@"shadowpass.4236" said:https://clips.twitch.tv/VastRoundDootHassanChop

In a high level tournament setting, two players just /dance because there's no point in even fighting when neither of them can kill the other. Is this what you want your game to look like Anet?

If this doesn't show how much of a JOKE the combat has become, I don't know what will.

Combat is in much better place than pre-nerf patch, what you even talk about? This kind of thing could've happened even back then, you don't really believe there weren't any kind of infinite waste of time 1v1? There are still few outliners that need nerfs though.

wait I thought it was the team fight meta that was awful? ah well nerf teef just to be safe.

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/VastRoundDootHassanChop

In a high level tournament setting, two players just /dance because there's no point in even fighting when neither of them can kill the other. Is this what you want your game to look like Anet?

If this doesn't show how much of a JOKE the combat has become, I don't know what will.

Side noders used to be able to kill or be killed. Fights would and could last a long time until someone messed up.

So we are essentially back to where we were years ago when they tried for esports with the side bunker meta. Great progress!

You either get 1 shot by some cheesy build or never kill the invincible bunkers. Builds are too one dimensional and there's no balance. Same issue the game has had since vanilla.

The concept of sidenoders is that they have to 1v1 for ages until a +1 come. This is what make the rotation purpose.Now the real problem is when :

• The said +1 has op sustain too.
• The sidenoder can facetank 1v2 easily with his build.

Btw it is not a true match in the link, there isn't any mesmers.

yeah side node meta only on that map

sustain on some classes and cc would need a nerf imo. sidenoders should be able to kill each other, but should not be squishy enough to totally get obliterated by a +1. Because of that I would like cc nerfed since cc disables kiting which would be an active defence vs multiple opponents for skilled players. Dont nerf sustain too much, for example tempest is an example of a pretty great teamfight support class. It provides heal, buffs but when focused can be kill relatively easily except if the player knows how to kite well. It is more active gameplay as opposed to old firebrand or tank core necro which I think deserved the nerfs they got.

@shadowpass.4236 said:two players just /dance because there's no point in even fighting when neither of them can kill the otherThe players are a soulbeast and a holo, two low damage classes that cant harm anybody and are unable to get a kill. Good joke^^

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:two players just /dance because there's no point in even fighting when neither of them can kill the otherThe players are a soulbeast and a holo, two low damage classes that cant harm anybody and are unable to get a kill. Good joke^^

thats the side node meta, if you take other things you actually eventually die to those bunker specs while they dont, so you are forced to play bunker

Can't wait to start seeing this in ranked next season.

I'll be sure to play games right before bedtime so I can ease myself into sleep.

Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

@Kickpuncher.8109 said:So we are essentially back to where we were years ago when they tried for esports with the side bunker meta. Great progress!

I know... Back in the day the feedback that game play is too slow and bunkerish and that TTK was too low. Anet responded by decreasing TTK and making the game faster around the time they wanted to get into e-sport. Yet the new guy comes around and make the same mistakes... again. Trying to re-create the wheel never ever works. Always ends up in disaster. You create so much unnecessary work and the product always is inferior. It takes years to make something that is somewhat balanced in MMOs. There are way too many moving parts.

In any case, the population is now non-existent, so it does not matter much anymore. I really wish they just left it alone. I would have taken zero balance patches ever over this crap. It is too late now...

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Idk man, holo has been mega nerfed.... 3 times now? If sidenoding, it easily dies to a +1. Hard Light Arena doesn't exist anymore. Inventions is a bad traitline. Flashbang on explosives is good, but it' probably going to have it's # of targets reduced. You could say the same about scrapper and its barriers, weaver and its evades, guardian and its symbol spam, but at the end of the day, it's not really the fantastic sidenoder people make it out to be, it's just better at doing that than teamfighting. Just because two high skill players who have sustain equipped don't anticipate being able to kill each other in one isntance doesn't mean the game is broken.

I mean you're not incorrect about 1v1 builds tending still to be very bunkerish, but Tranquility has always been a bit of a meme in that regard since there is no node to contest and you can kite freely. Even in the past builds like Druid were basically unkillable there unless heavily zerged. Fights on sidenode are still a bit stale, but in most cases one party can force the fullcap after a while at least.

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Or remove more amulets, seems like ANet trend currently.

We have entered the new age of casual pvp. You must learn its commandments:

1. Thou shalt spammeth thy aoe
2. Thou shalt not end thy duel of the side node
3. Honor thy bunker, and thy boon
4. Remember thy condi cleanse, and thou shalt cleanse thyself upon thee 7th stack

If history is anything to go by the meta is garbage just before the expansion for class hype and big sales.

I watch holosmiths perpetually gain every boon in the game, remove rows of condis immediately, and full heal while superspeeding away 24/7. No wonder people are /dancing who would want to 1v1 that?

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Ye that the solution just remove everything that has healing power or toughness. xD

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

Meganerfed 3 time yet still played in almost every MOTA match as sidenoder running 0 healing power sustaining on a sidenode. If bunkers can't get away with running damage amulets then they are fine to stay as long as they can't tank 3 people on a node.

@viquing.8254 said:The concept of sidenoders is that they have to 1v1 for ages until a +1 come. This is what make the rotation purpose.Now the real problem is when :

• The said +1 has op sustain too.
• The sidenoder can facetank 1v2 easily with his build.

Btw it is not a true match in the link, there isn't any mesmers.

Duels shoundt be endless , thats not fun fof anyone

this is literally the only build to run for ranger inorder to compete in a high level 5v5 matches, there is no other build that can do that currently. they already nerfed ranger alot, if they nerf whats currently provided the class is going to park next to the pink classAll anet does is nerf after nerf after nerf after nerfand honestly holo is fine, the guy was running zerk amulet dont blame his class for not being able to do enough damage.I would love to hear any recommendations you have? maybe remove more amulets once again...

@McPero.3287 said:

@Kulvar.1239 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

@memausz.7264 said:

@McPero.3287 said:Problem is ranger, holo for example have too much sustain without requiring any healing power. If side noders get nerfed their 'base'sustain you will be able to win 1v1 or die to a plus. Force bunkers to play menders if they want sustain but they shouldn't get away with playing demolishers, paladin, berserker ect.But previous meta was even worse with so much damage and sustain. One second you were winning hp battle the other you are dead.And point of bunkers is kinda to survive a plus so why would you expect that they should die in a 1v1. Bunkers shouldn't have good teamfighting and kill pressure. If that is the case bunkers are completely healthy for competitive conquest.

Decreasing cooldowns and increasing power ratios is not the solution. Having low cooldowns just makes game braindead because you spam your buttons in a PvE rotation. I believe certain weapon skills could get buffed but have longer cooldowns so it actually matters if you dodge them. Lich form, tornado for example are very impactful and fun to use but have long cooldown (well tornado needs longer one and remove cc from 3).

What are you talking about? Any thief +1ing against a Holo on side node will push them off the node and usually kill them. This 3v1ing is actually a problem with core bunker necro more so than anything.