New weapon types study - Fists, Polearms, Relics, Spears, and more - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New weapon types study - Fists, Polearms, Relics, Spears, and more

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  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    The original idea feels somewhat outdated, and I have changed a few opinions since I posted it, in part thanks to everyone contributing. So I guess it's time for an update!

    Here's my new take, I'm a bit less rigid with the animation department this time, and I'm going harder for the cool factor too. I still think this set is fairly viable, and includes more variety, with more potential for originality. Hope you like it!

    New weapons

    These are my 6 ideal weapons, for a total of 22.

    • Fists: One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. They replace active glove skins when wielded.
    • Spear: One-handed, can be wielded in one hand or both. Mostly ranged usage.
    • Bell: Off-hand. Percussion instrument, played to vibrate ambient magic. Connected to geomancy.
    • Vial: Off-hand. Container of liquid which can be drunk, spilled, or thrown. Includes bottles of wine, magic potions, steins of beer, barrels, and more.
    • Polearm: Two-handed. Includes greataxes, scythes, halberds, longspears, and more.
    • Relic: Two-handed. Magical artifact inspired by the old guardian tomes. Floats on the left hand, while you cast with the right hand. Includes books of magic, astrolabes, cauldrons, musical instruments, ashes, tablets, and more.

    Each core profession would unlock two of the above for free, without any specialization requirements. Further unlocks would become possible through elite specializations. These core unlocks would be as follows:

    • Elementalist: Bell, Relic.
    • Mesmer: Vial, Relic.
    • Necromancer: Bell, Polearm.
    • Engineer: Fists, Vial.
    • Ranger: Spear, Bell.
    • Thief: Fists, Spear.
    • Guardian: Spear, Relic.
    • Revenant: Fists, Polearm.
    • Warrior: Vial, Polearm.

    Underwater weapons

    You might have noticed I didn't count the 3 underwater weapons when counting above. That's because I'm merging them with some of the ground weapons. They would remain separate equipment-wise, but use the same skin pool.

    • Harpoon (old spear) merges with polearm.
    • Speargun (old harpoon gun) merges with rifle.
    • Trident merges with staff.

    You would still need to craft them separately, so for example, you wouldn't be able to use a trident as a staff. This merge only covers skins, effectively removing underwater weapons from the wardrobe.

    Updates to old weapons

    Other potential new weapons would be included inside the existing types. Few examples:

    • Axes now include chakrams, boomerangs, and other thrown blades.
    • Daggers now include fans.
    • Maces now include one-handed hammers.
    • Rifles now include crossbows.
    • Shortbows now include slingshots.

    I feel like this model is much more solid than my previous idea, and also includes more exciting new options.

    Bonus: New legendary weapons

    Because, why not?

    • Fists: Steam-powered mecha-hands, the wrists rotate in combat like a drill.
    • Spear: GW1's Voltaic Spears, this time with more lightning.
    • Bell: Instead of a handheld bell, a floating familiar carries a Canthan jade tower bell by your side, and you pull the rope to play it. Includes musical instrument toy version.
    • Vial: A whole barrel of the legendary norn beer, Bear's Brown Ale. Your character occasionally makes drunk jokes. Frost effect, plus tiny pink elephants appear around you.
    • Polearm: Dual-bladed djinn elemental scythe, effects changing from fire to ice. Aura and footsteps change their effects as well, synchronized with the weapon.
    • Relic: Cauldron of Cataclysm, a handheld replica of the artifact behind the Searing of Ascalon.

    @RobbyT.1925 said:
    Personally, I'd rather see the addition of more skills to the current weapons. one of the things that made GW1 great was the fact that you could have two characters that had the same two classes, same weapons, but two entirely different builds. It made each character feel unique, whereas now, GW2 has been going strong for ~6 years and every Ranger with a short bow plays the exact same way. I'd like to see more weapons, but I'd like to see the addition of more skills on the current weapons first. Perhaps LW season 4 or 5 will see either of these two come to fruition?

    Yeah, that's something that would be nice, but it should come through traits. New elite specializations should have new weapons they couldn't use before.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    I'm up for CROSSBOW engineer since 2012. I have so few weapons choices and I hate kits. If it's done RIGHT it can be an awesome weapon with stunning mechanics.
    Even have some skills icons!
    1.Charged bullet, 2.Arrow volley, 3.special trick, 4.shock-wave, 5. Ionized shot (Shot at others to deploy a protective, regenerative shield)...
    Link with profession? -Power + Support in same time. Crossbow can be used to launch arrows but some flasks or devices too.
    Can be used at RANGE / CLOSE COMBAT.

    EDIT: NO FISTS. Very fan of vials, but fists have 0 to do with engineer: A class with main theme "Mechanics/technologies"
    Masters of mechanical mayhem, engineers love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades. Ref: WIKI

    Proof: core=kits, exp1=mechanic exp2=Sci-Fi shooter, using solar energy. So in sum up, "Engineering complexity/Intelligence" don't see an engineer fighting with fists, that's against his nature. Even reinforced/ electrified ones like knuckles....

    +++Sandswept Isles: Advisory K-4: Don't be misled; with some effort, a charr CAN fit inside an asura-sized Inquest uniform.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    If any go with "greataxe"
    We got
    Mace->Hammer
    Sword->greatsword
    axe-> :-(

    Jokaurene

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2018

    Currently, you can somehow class weapons:
    -Mace-like: Hammer, Mace
    -Sword-like: Sword, Greatsword, Spear, Trident
    -Magical-stuff: Focus, Scepter, Warhorn
    -Gun-like: Rifle,Pistols,Harpoon-gun
    -Bows: Shortbow, Longbow
    -Protection: Torch, Shield
    -Berserk: Axe

    +++Sandswept Isles: Advisory K-4: Don't be misled; with some effort, a charr CAN fit inside an asura-sized Inquest uniform.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2018

    I don't think anet has time or resources to be wasting making purely new weapon base types.

    Everyone is screaming great axe but realistically that wont happen.
    I think the best we can hope for would be new e specs that maybe give weapon skins, profession mechanic abilities, or utility skills similar to new weapons you are looking at but visually i doubt we will see new weapon types as base weapons.

    Like no one here said "cannon" as a weapon but holosmith has a cannon for its elite skill
    Reaper has a scythe for its shroud attacks
    Engi and its tool kits which contain different weapons out of the norm.

    I think we can expect to possibly see more things like the above on other elite specs in the future.
    If warrior gets a great axe it will likely be locked behind some mechanic on its profession bar or something and coded with the script of great sword / hammer despite it looking like a great axe.

    Because anet started this path so far its ideally better if they hold to it and build weapons into profession elite specs rather than trying to make a new weapon type that can fit across several professions. Take that new weapon you want and make it into a skill or several skills, or transform ability that can easily be represented or coded with an existing base weapon as its frame.

    We are more likely to see things like.

    Warrior Elite spec : Barbarian
    First trait
    F1 Primal Instinct - Lose access to standard burst attacks and gain access to "Barbaric Fury"
    Barbaric Fury Use adrenaline to push your inner strength and draw your 'Great Axe' gaining new skills and abilities, Adrenaline drains over time.

    Necro possibly getting kits that equip vials or something
    Rangers with a execution style spear throwing elite's / utilities

    Again these are just made up examples of what i think we are likely to see something similar to over just the creation of new weapons. I feel like this is anets best way of doing this without having to over invest int dozens of new weapon skins, renders, skills, not to mention adding 1 new weapon means they have to add several new weapons because obviously not every profession will get access to just that 1 weapon if only 1 got added. Its overall alot more work and thus alot more unlikely.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705 said:
    I'm up for CROSSBOW engineer since 2012. I have so few weapons choices and I hate kits. If it's done RIGHT it can be an awesome weapon with stunning mechanics.
    Even have some skills icons!
    1.Charged bullet, 2.Arrow volley, 3.special trick, 4.shock-wave, 5. Ionized shot (Shot at others to deploy a protective, regenerative shield)...
    Link with profession? -Power + Support in same time. Crossbow can be used to launch arrows but some flasks or devices too.
    Can be used at RANGE / CLOSE COMBAT.

    EDIT: NO FISTS. Very fan of vials, but fists have 0 to do with engineer: A class with main theme "Mechanics/technologies"
    Masters of mechanical mayhem, engineers love to tinker with explosives, elixirs, and all manner of hazardous gadgets. They can take control of an area by placing turrets, support their allies with alchemic weaponry, or lay waste to foes with a wide array of mines, bombs, and grenades. Ref: WIKI

    Proof: core=kits, exp1=mechanic exp2=Sci-Fi shooter, using solar energy. So in sum up, "Engineering complexity/Intelligence" don't see an engineer fighting with fists, that's against his nature. Even reinforced/ electrified ones like knuckles....

    You had me at crossbow

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭

    I wonder if crossbow could use rifle animations to save dev time? It would use a lot of the same aiming / trigger pulling

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2018

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    I wonder if crossbow could use rifle animations to save dev time? It would use a lot of the same aiming / trigger pulling

    Yeah sure, but imo would be closer to bows. You can put whatever you want on it, but we will always have a bell trajectory. Also having a reduced recharge time compared to rifle.

    The first question to ask ourselves is:
    Two-handed or not? If two, we can use bow animation. A smoke cloud at the end of the crossbow is sufficient, for the rest attacks have to be simply coppied from grenades, bows, etc...

    +++Sandswept Isles: Advisory K-4: Don't be misled; with some effort, a charr CAN fit inside an asura-sized Inquest uniform.

  • I wanna see elite specs change the skills on current weapons. Because thief-assassins needs to have a daggers as deadly weapons and not as whacking sticks.

  • I would like the fists for Thief but not in the next Expansion. Maybe later. I mean it would be really nice to smack the hell out of your enemies xD Also DD could be that. I dont know why we had to have Staff. It could be done with kicks and punches like a NINJA like espec would do it. But okay i am fine with this

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's weird this was a disappointment to the OP ... we didn't get them in HoT and Anet made no announcement we would see new ones in PoF.

    I wouldn't mind more but to be frank, it's just a label ... as long as at least one weapon exists for each class to expand into, I have little faith Anet would put much effort into new ones.

    If I were Anet, my biggest problem is that you couldn't make just one new weapon because that would be very dissatisfying to the classes that wouldn't get that weapon. We would need at least 2 or 3 and even then, that wouldn't guarantee a new weapon for a new espec.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On this same note, I made a post in general discussion about implementing spears or underwater weapons as land weapons.

    It could be viable, it could be done in such a way to minimize production costs and it could be monetized. I definitely agree with OP that some new weapons in the game would be a welcome addition.

    I agree with the OP here - new weapons would be fun, and interesting. Personally I'd love them to be included and I know most of the community either wants new weapons or is ambivalent about the issue. This should have been done with PoF. It's not too late, and it should be done sooner rather than later if Anet cares to do it at all because we're getting to a point where it may result in a fairness issue over who gets which weapons unless they do something totally out there, like 9 unique weapons for the final expac.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    If I were Anet, my biggest problem is that you couldn't make just one new weapon because that would be very dissatisfying to the classes that wouldn't get that weapon. We would need at least 2 or 3 and even then, that wouldn't guarantee a new weapon for a new espec.

    Addressing your last point here: You pose a good argument and it's one of the key things someone should address when proposing new weapons be added to the game. There are multiple ways to solve this problem if Anet really wanted to though:

    • Create three-four new weapon types. Within 3 expacs, every class would have gained access to at least one of the new weapons.
    • Create three new weapon types. Every single new elite spec would get one of the three weapons in the next expac (this could be done for the final expac).
    • Create 9 new weapon types and each new elite spec gets one. Similar to previous option, much more novel but likely more tedious for the devs.
    • Create an achievement/crafting-based system of modification, where the new weapon types are obtained by attaching a crafted/earned piece to an already existing weapon (for example, you attach a spearhead to any exotic, ascended or legendary staff you have, and it turns into a spear of equal grade keeping the same stats, sigils, infusions). Advantage here is that each of the 9 professions could receive their own unique weapon-type. Disadvantage is tedium for the devs to develop such a system.
  • I dig it,
    Blow gun thief could be sweet, but deadeye already has the stealthy range covered

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 13, 2018

    @Klowdy.3126 said:
    Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

    What other profession uses tomes except firebrand—guardian?
    Thats one profession as far as i see.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    I wanna see elite specs change the skills on current weapons. Because thief-assassins needs to have a daggers as deadly weapons and not as whacking sticks.

    I think I'd rather redesign core weapons. If the skills are bad, why fix them through elite specializations, when you could just update them for core?

    I feel like many ranger weapon skills are terrible, for example.

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    It's weird this was a disappointment to the OP ... we didn't get them in HoT and Anet made no announcement we would see new ones in PoF.

    I wouldn't mind more but to be frank, it's just a label ... as long as at least one weapon exists for each class to expand into, I have little faith Anet would put much effort into new ones.

    If I were Anet, my biggest problem is that you couldn't make just one new weapon because that would be very dissatisfying to the classes that wouldn't get that weapon. We would need at least 2 or 3 and even then, that wouldn't guarantee a new weapon for a new espec.

    That's already covered in the post above, just unlock 2 new weapon types for every core profession for free, and unlock the rest through elite specializations.

    @Arcaedus.7290 said:
    On this same note, I made a post in general discussion about implementing spears or underwater weapons as land weapons.

    It could be viable, it could be done in such a way to minimize production costs and it could be monetized. I definitely agree with OP that some new weapons in the game would be a welcome addition.

    I agree with the OP here - new weapons would be fun, and interesting. Personally I'd love them to be included and I know most of the community either wants new weapons or is ambivalent about the issue. This should have been done with PoF. It's not too late, and it should be done sooner rather than later if Anet cares to do it at all because we're getting to a point where it may result in a fairness issue over who gets which weapons unless they do something totally out there, like 9 unique weapons for the final expac.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    If I were Anet, my biggest problem is that you couldn't make just one new weapon because that would be very dissatisfying to the classes that wouldn't get that weapon. We would need at least 2 or 3 and even then, that wouldn't guarantee a new weapon for a new espec.

    Addressing your last point here: You pose a good argument and it's one of the key things someone should address when proposing new weapons be added to the game. There are multiple ways to solve this problem if Anet really wanted to though:

    • Create three-four new weapon types. Within 3 expacs, every class would have gained access to at least one of the new weapons.
    • Create three new weapon types. Every single new elite spec would get one of the three weapons in the next expac (this could be done for the final expac).
    • Create 9 new weapon types and each new elite spec gets one. Similar to previous option, much more novel but likely more tedious for the devs.
    • Create an achievement/crafting-based system of modification, where the new weapon types are obtained by attaching a crafted/earned piece to an already existing weapon (for example, you attach a spearhead to any exotic, ascended or legendary staff you have, and it turns into a spear of equal grade keeping the same stats, sigils, infusions). Advantage here is that each of the 9 professions could receive their own unique weapon-type. Disadvantage is tedium for the devs to develop such a system.

    I don't think every profession needs to be able to use every new weapon. I mean, in my new suggestions above there's stuff like a relic, which is a two-handed magical artifact. The likes of engineer, thief, and warrior have no business being able to use something like that.

    The key should be to add enough new weapons so that everyone gets their own share.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Klowdy.3126 said:
    Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

    What other profession uses tomes except firebrand—guardian?
    Thats one profession as far as i see.

    And even then, guardian doesn't really use tomes. Yeah, the virtue skills are called tomes, but they don't summon actual tomes, only some flying paper pages. The original "tome kit" was removed years ago, and it didn't came back with the firebrand, much to my dismay.

    But then again, this could be a new opportunity for something bigger, like a new weapon type, which I like far more than actual tome kits.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klowdy.3126 said:

    @Conncept.7638 said:
    I cannot believe you don't have tomes on the first priority list.

    • Like the underwater weapons, they are, or were, already in game.
    • As a magic weapon, it would be more particle effect driven, requiring way less animation work than any martial weapon.
    • There are no caster weapons left. The game only launched with three, already available to every caster profession. There is so much design space left for more traditional spellcasting, but no magic weapons to place traditional spellcasting skills on.
    • And finally, we already have a profession that should have had it, the axe makes absolutely no sense for the firebrand and was clearly a tacked on compromise on the firebrands aesthetic and theme. We have a sophisticated mystical librarian and lorekeeper, wielding the most primitive, brutish, barbaric weapon in the game.

    Tomes are now abilities, used by two classes. They aren't going to turn them into something that is bought/dropped after implementing them as spells, especially since one is an elite spec.

    "I'm using a tome in order to use my tomes more effectively...in my tome build...with tomes"

    No.

    Lucky for you, mate, Firebrand doesn't even use tomes...they use pages!

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    In retrospective, I wish they had been their own weapon type, but it's clear the focus type was designed to cover them and many other things, something I believe it's a mistake. I can't even tell what the hell 80% of the foci skins are, they're just ugly things with no point whatsoever. They should have been books, orbs, scrolls, and stuff like that, instead of random junk. Really bad design decision with foci skins all around, but too late to fix that, I guess.

    If it was in my hands, I would redesign the whole focus category and make them all book skins and such, or make sure new skins are actually decent instead of those weird hand-weapon things, but I'm not sure the "purpose" of books/tomes would be different from that of foci, thus me not splitting them in two.

    Hopefully, this will be the case now we got custom animations for the new legendary focus, but I don't know.

    Nah, no point. Unless you like pissing people off just for your own OCD, you're better off just making a new class of weapon focused on something coherent enough and just accept the mistake of the focus weapon and let those players that enjoy it as is have it. You can still have, for example, an orb weapon category along with the focus category if you make them mechanically and aesthetically different.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A whip. A thorny spiky whip. And stilettos. And maybe a rope too.

  • @Lonami.2987 said:

    @DragonSlayer.1087 said:
    I wanna see elite specs change the skills on current weapons. Because thief-assassins needs to have a daggers as deadly weapons and not as whacking sticks.

    I think I'd rather redesign core weapons. If the skills are bad, why fix them through elite specializations, when you could just update them for core?

    The reason I said that is because core weapons are affected by elite specs. For example, Daggers. When they modified the DE, it turned the D/D into a gimmick build, which IF nerfed at some point will affect core thieves. Hence, why I wish the next elite specs would have their own skill sets for 'core weapons' making them independent from balancing.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    I don't think every profession needs to be able to use every new weapon. I mean, in my new suggestions above there's stuff like a relic, which is a two-handed magical artifact. The likes of engineer, thief, and warrior have no business being able to use something like that.

    Right, and this is what I was saying with my first bullet point. What I was saying with later bullet points is that if Anet so wanted, every class could gain access to each of the new weapon types. No matter what though, if new weapon types get introduced, it would have to be 3+ new weapon types, and for fairness, every class would have to get access to at least one of the weapon-types before the game's final expansion

  • I think adapting Spears onto land would be the best direction for this franchise to go in terms of introducing new weapon.

    The fact we never got land spears at launch is just mind-baffling. Not only are Spears a Guild Wars tradition, being one of the most beloved weapon types in the first game, but it's an insanely popular fantasy weapon in general.

    This game is in desperate need of new weapons, and I'm not talking elite specs. We need new weapons for the core classes in general.

    Some ideas:

    Warrior: SPEARGUN. A ranged support weapon revolving around CC and mobility. Utilized similarly to a freaking HOOKSHOT! Speargun #5 tethers to yourself to foe, immobilizing them and applying periodic cripple or vulnerability. Activating the flipover skills will cause Speargun #5 to pull your foe from 900 range, similar to DH #F1. Speargun #4 could be a mobility which pulls you to the foe along with stunning them for a second.

    Necromancer: Spear. A condi alternative to Scepter, used as a melee weapon to cleave multiple targets.

    Engineer: Speargun. A ranged power DPS weapon which shoots explosive harpoons at foes. (This is intended to be an Engineer's ranged power dps, since Rifle is mid-range shotgun, and Mortar/grenades are ground target hell...)

  • I believe that anet (unconfirmed) has stated that they won't shy away from reusing weapons if needed. Things like taking the staff, and turning it into a spear weapon with certain animations for the e-spec. Or a scythe. That can certainly be done and doesn't require the backload involved with creating a new weapon.

    Weapons are given new skill-sets, that kind of thing.

    I can definitely see that happening.

  • Arcaedus.7290Arcaedus.7290 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aplethoraof.2643 said:
    I believe that anet (unconfirmed) has stated that they won't shy away from reusing weapons if needed. Things like taking the staff, and turning it into a spear weapon with certain animations for the e-spec. Or a scythe. That can certainly be done and doesn't require the backload involved with creating a new weapon.

    Weapons are given new skill-sets, that kind of thing.

    I can definitely see that happening.

    I get what you're saying, but with the tiny bit of programming knowledge I do have, let me make this argument:

    It would not be that much more work (than just reusing current weapons) to have a few "new" weapon types as long as they're attached to elite specializations.

    Every time a new elite spec gets created, a "new weapon" in some sense is also created. Before PoF, mesmer with axe did not exist, so that had to be newly created, though not entirely from scratch: there already exists a model of the player character rigged with axe, so all that had to be done was enable that rig on mesmer, and reuse assets such as basic axe swing/throw animations that warrior already has, plus design some new ones (Lingering Thoughts animation is unique) and some unique visual effects (purple shockwaves and blurs and whatnot) to compliment the mesmer class + add flavor to the skills and elite spec.

    But quite possibly the best example of this is staff being used as a melee weapon on daredevil/revenant. This is effectively an entirely new weapon being created. A slightly new rig had to be made for staff being used as a melee weapon which is apparent by how they hold staff like a hammer (melee weapon) as opposed to every other class holding staff like a mage would. Many basic striking and swinging animations were also freshly designed (the unique auto attack they both share is a good example), but also many animations were reused. Rev staff 2 (both hits) and daredevil staff 4 are essentially just warrior/guardian hammer swing animations.

    What I'm arguing is they could introduce new weapon-types by the same process they used to design staff on daredevil and revenant. Don't get me wrong, doing this would definitely be more difficult, but I don't think it would be that much more difficult than their current model of giving new elite specs one of the current weapons. There are other challenges obviously, mainly with having to write code for a new weapon-type ID in the system (marketplace/trading, achievements, crafting, vendors/merchants) which will take time but can arguably be seen as a one-time investment.

    Overall, I think this is something that while only maybe economically viable for Anet (something for them to decide) it's well within the developers' capabilities. They're very talented and if they wanted to, they'd implement new weapons.

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