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Li / Killproof for Strikes are a Problem

I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.

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Comments

  • Arcaniaxs.4519Arcaniaxs.4519 Member ✭✭✭

    People join groups with LI requirements because they want a fast and smooth strike run.
    No one wants to repeat WoJ or boneS 20 times in order to kill it with no bonus chest
    But i dont disagree with u and you are completely right
    The content is ment for people who want to learn raiding and get better so they can join raid groups
    This LI problem of yours is because the amount of rewards these strikes provide
    They are so ez for average raiders that u can finish all of them except cold war in 15-25mins and get good money and loot from them. You can buy ascended stuff from strike shards too.
    There are bunch of rare drops worth of 10g too
    With all these raiders would come to do these strikes and fast clear all of them too
    They dont want a slow dps group or a group that dies everytime at boneskinner. So they put a LI req for their squad.
    If this problem gonna get solved i PERSONALY think Anet should lower the amount of rewards for each strikes as much as raiders wont see it worthy for completing daily so then other non-raider players could look for a group peacefully in LFG. Well sad for u i dont think this will happen cuz if they nerf the amount of rewards then the content would probably die out cuz no one would ses it worthy of doing. And anet wouldnt want that
    I hope someone has a better idea to fix this problem

  • Arcaniaxs.4519Arcaniaxs.4519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ecoxiss.1079 said:
    Lowering the Loot for everyone isnt helping much tbh. Thats just making strikes useless for everyone :)
    They should just remove the KP Items or ban the process in lfg at all.
    Maybe an Easy and Hard Mode then?

    If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?
    Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Must be an EU thing. Never see it NA. Make your own or wait till one's w/o reqs are there and no group is required to carry/teach new players who may cause a wipe and waste 10 mins so they do this. Does it prevent wipes no Idea because I couldn't link a single Li

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make your own group.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    After that we will have to start threads about how removing AP from the game is the only way for people to get a squad.

    ha ha .. true. I still remember times that for AC p123 was exist AP value requirement.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ecoxiss.1079 said:
    I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.

    It‘s a shame, but nothing new. Happened in GW1 with the summoning stones, so it‘s pretty much tradition.
    Best thing you can do is to just open your own group while the others are still looking for their 250 LI alacrev, or just ignore the content alltogether.
    If it does end up like raids and dungeons with barely any new blood because people don‘t wan‘t to create their own groups and existing groups aren‘t taking anyone new, tough luck. Just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.
    Remaster confirmed! Umbasa!

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Is it so hard for all of you to have a faith on people you don't know ? Or is it too hard for commander to fix and tell newbie what to do in the strike ? (Other than just kick )

    Again why should people value their time and enjoyment less than someone else's just because? There are also times where people are less than receptive to being given guidance.

    Also why should they be chastised for playing the game the way they want with the people they want to play with?

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    Forum people claim that raids as a gamemode is scarcely played by the population. Now let's take that small portion of people who raid and spread them across all the commanders who ask for LI in strikes, which supposedly are way more populated and think of a number of this kind of players. ... you don't come to the conclusion that 80% of strike LFGs require you to have KPs. Yet alone thinking that their LFGs are keeping you out of this type of content.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ecoxiss.1079 said:
    but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too.

    I see 25-50%, not 80%.

    Besides, just open your own squad like I do. Look for specific roles needed (HFB, BS, Alac, etc) and add stuff like "Know the mechanics!" and "No Pew-Pew Rangers!", it will get you good team mates in most cases without having to rely on LI.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yesterday I was done experiment: join 10 times to lfg whit requirement and not link anything .. 10 strikes done.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

    hides

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

    hides

    Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.
    They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

    hides

    Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.
    They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

    As long as each Strike Mission drops a different spoon it should be fine. The problem we see here is that "kill proofs" of one content (Raids) are posted as a requirement in other content (Strikes), even though Strikes are supposed to be the pre-content for Raids and not the other way around. Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation. Furthermore, if Strikes had their own way of proofing maybe they could be used in their intended purpose, as a bridge for Raids, as groups might start requiring "kill proofs" from Strikes to take players into the easier Raids. Now it's all backwards.

    edit: this situation is all the result of some vocal forum posters being against the idea of "kill proofs" in the first place, Arenanet caved in and didn't add any kill proofs in Strikes and here we are.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    people say great idea: make Li and raid kp available buy for gems.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    people say great idea: make Li and raid kp available buy for gems.

    Good idea. Then groups will start asking for 1000+ LI or 250+ KP to filter out those that bought their way in. Need better ways of identifying experienced players, not make it worse.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so continue experiment, again join 200li group, not link, only say role. Strike done. May be people cry only because they like cry ?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2020

    Ecoxiss: 80% of groups in lfg require killproofs. remove them!
    ANet: removes killproofs
    strikes have 80% less players
    Ecoxiss: :open_mouth:

    PS:
    li/kp squads in strike lfg are 50% at max btw. there are tons of open squads. and if there doesn't happen to be one, here's a pro tip that you probably haven't heard yet: create your own squad!

    PPS:
    please, honestly, tell me why you want to remove kp from lfg.
    people keep complaining about toxic elitists, especially in raids, but also in strikes and fractals. kp are their way to save you from them!! why is it you want to force them to play with you so badly?

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    so continue experiment, again join 200li group, not link, only say role. Strike done. May be people cry only because they like cry ?

    There's a quote : "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

    It doesn't solve the problem OP is having except proving it can be done without KP/Li. But do get your points.

    There's nothing stopping OP from starting a group. If groups with requirement fills slower compared to groups without, there shouldn't be any significant difference to fill up. If afraid to lead due to afraid of failing the content, find a way to work it out, grasp what's missing or needs to be improved etc and place a lower requirement/standard for it to be done.

  • Arcaniaxs.4519Arcaniaxs.4519 Member ✭✭✭

    Or just dont do strikes if u dont wanna see LI/KP squads

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation.

    Isn't the cloak thing basically just that? Also, some strikes have like 0 DPS requirements. An average DPS of 1625 per player can get the job done and for some of them 4875 DPS per player is enough to get all the rewards. And if you really want to put up non raid requirements just ask for some of the single player titles, everyone with "The Blazing Light" should be able to do well enough.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tails.9372 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Maybe if the content in question already had some kind of "proofing" we wouldn't be in this situation.

    Isn't the cloak thing basically just that? Also, some strikes have like 0 DPS requirements. An average DPS of 1625 per player can get the job done and for some of them 4875 DPS per player is enough to get all the rewards. And if you really want to put up non raid requirements just ask for some of the single player titles, everyone with "The Blazing Light" should be able to do well enough.

    Strike groups only have requirements for specific strikes or full clears (which will include all strikes available). A group that goes only for Shiverpeak Pass won't have any requirements posted. If it was up to me I would use a title like that, it shows that the player has a good understanding of the game's combat and build system.

  • Blueberry.8095Blueberry.8095 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Add kill proof in Strikes, problem solved. Or not.

    hides

    Let's add a spoon to each Strike mission that can count as the kill proof.
    They could add a collection for them. Let's just call it "Striking Spoons".

    Rip, bank space war II

  • Cristalyan.5728Cristalyan.5728 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arcaniaxs.4519 said:

    If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?
    Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

    LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

    Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.

    My opininion here is that the reason is not the desire to find a good group. The Strikes are easy enough to be pugged. The real reason is the feeling of belonging to a small "elite". And the desire to display this - in a public announcement. "We can enter here, in this group, you cannot" So, not the skill is the problem here. But the ....

    I stop here. I had sanctions on this Forum for statements much more innocent than what I wanted to say.

  • Gotta say it's pretty cringe with 250 Li in strikes. But they make whatever lfg they want. So what if they want to make a clown of em self, It's not like your missing out. In fact you now know who to avoid. You don't need that negativity in you're life. Be reasonable, just ignore em and continue life.

  • kanemi.4903kanemi.4903 Member ✭✭

    @kmfart.7480 said:
    The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are way too harsh, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

    But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    Shiverpeaks Pass is way to easy and can be done by any group of players regardless of their skill and IQ while WoJ/Bs can be a bit too difficult for players with average skills.

    I think that all strikes should be balanced around the same level of difficulty. If high skilled players find them too easy, it wouldn't hurt to givem a cm mode with higher rewards. Anet managed to implement that very well in fractals and I think that they should do the same thing for strikes.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    @kanemi.4903 said:

    @kmfart.7480 said:
    The root of the problem is that a few of the strike missions are way too harsh, that they are even harder than a few of the raids. That is exactly what they were not meant to be like.

    But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

    That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Arcaniaxs.4519 said:

    If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?
    Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

    LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

    Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.

    So, you can solo every strike, including WoJ and Boneskinner? Because that's what your claim is about - being able to carry other 9 players even if their input in the fight is minimal or zero. If so, i'd really like a video of it.

    @kanemi.4903 said:
    But then we will come to the 'too easy' problem.

    They would be "too easy" for raiders. They are not meant fo be a content for raiders, though, but for people that might someday become raiders. Being easy for raiders should be an expected situation.

    Still, Shiverpeak could probably be a little bit more difficult. As it is, the jumping puzzle before it (and the snowball in the corridor at the very beginning) are the real enemies here. WoJ and Boneskinner on the other hand should probably be made a bit easier (in case of WoJ i'd say easing a bit on multiple mechanics at the same time in the last phase should do it, but Boneskinner would need a more in-depth rebalance).

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

    They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels.

    There is one difficulty option per Strike Mission.
    Why not have two or three per Strike Mission?

    This could please the people who want Shiverpeaks Pass to be harder, the people who want Boneskinner to be easier and the people with wishes in between.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    @Cristalyan.5728 said:

    @Arcaniaxs.4519 said:

    If they remove kps then how would top raiders know how to get a good group?
    Easy and hardmode scenario would be like the discussions for ez and hard mode for raids

    LOOL !! This questions the meaning of "top raiders". If a raider needs a "good group" to complete the WoJ or Boneskinner for example, then he is not a "good" raider. He is at the same level with every random player building a PU Group. So, why is he asking for KP?

    Why I said this - I pugged all the strikes. Mostly after doing Shiverpeaks/Fraenir/Kodans, if the players considered the team to be good, then we continued. And most of the times we killed Bone and Completed WoJ from the first try. Again - why the need of KP? If ONE of the players is a very good one, he can decide every Strike.

    My opininion here is that the reason is not the desire to find a good group. The Strikes are easy enough to be pugged. The real reason is the feeling of belonging to a small "elite". And the desire to display this - in a public announcement. "We can enter here, in this group, you cannot" So, not the skill is the problem here. But the ....

    I stop here. I had sanctions on this Forum for statements much more innocent than what I wanted to say.

    your post shows that you have no idea about raiding or strikes whatsoever. (or the "elitist" community in that regard)
    being a "top raider" doesnt just mean killing a boss. its about consistency and time. you can kill a boss once without whiping. but can you do it 50 times, again and again, without a single whipe? pugs whipe on a regular basis for a lot of stupid reasons.
    can you do a W1-4 fullclear in <2h? a lot of pugs cannot even manage to clear W1 in 1h - and then players start leaving the squad.

    same goes for strikes. can you kill bone and WoJ 50 times, again and again, without a single whipe, while getting gold reward every single time?
    i can tell you from experience: a lot of pugs dont even manage to get gold on fraenir or kodans!
    so at this point its not even just about time anymore. its about getting more loot!
    and btw; while it is indeed possible to solo kill 1 or 2 strikes - its impossible to get gold rewards doing so. so no, even if youre a top raider, you can not carry a team made of 9 leechers.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    That's a problem which could be avoided by Arenanet implementing multiple difficulty options.

    They already did add multiple difficulty options by making Strikes of different difficulty levels.

    There is one difficulty option per Strike Mission.

    One difficulty option per Strike Mission but multiple Strike Missions of varying difficulty. Same result

    Why not have two or three per Strike Mission?

    Because that would increase the development time of Strike Missions and serve no purpose, there is already an escalating difficulty in Strike Missions, why would we need multiple difficulties of the same one? Want an easy one? Try Shiverpeak Pass, want a hard one, run Boneskinner. There is choice for everyone, why spend extra development time in a failed attempt to make all strike missions of similar level?

    This could please the people who want Shiverpeaks Pass to be harder, the people who want Boneskinner to be easier and the people with wishes in between.

    Only it wouldn't actually please anyone. How much "harder" do you suppose Shiverpeak Pass should become to "please" those people that want a harder version? Similarly, how much easier do you think Boneskinner should become to "please" those that want it to be easier? What if someone finds the hard boneskinner too hard and the easy boneskinner too easy? Add more tiers? At how many tiers do you think everyone will be finally satisfied?