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Li / Killproof for Strikes are a Problem

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  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Hyrai.8720 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I just repeat what i have seen, nothing more, nothing less.

    So youre basically a parrot that doesnt even understand what it's saying. Great...
    What you're representing here are highly subjective and individual experiences/opinions and in no way reliable sources. You should use websites like gw2efficiency etc. to get a deeper understanding of wealth distribution across the gw2 community and that raiders have the tendency to be richer and thus are less reliant on rewards.
    (though they did get this rich by playing lucrative content of course^^)

    Nah, i just tell you only what i have seen. It's true it is nothing but personal experience (which should be obvious, i mean come on...) but since it's true for every MMO i have played, can't really tell you anything else. Anytime anyone anywhere start talking about difficulty, sooner rather than later the people who say they "enjoy" difficulty come to tell everyone how it should give more stuff, every time. They, of course, also say they enjoy it but as soon as someone tells them "isn't it supposed to be fun for you, why more stuff?" the raiders especially knock them down with the might of a thousand suns.

    Even as someone who after having played for 8+ years doesn't really care much about rewards anymore and just enjoys Raiding for the gameplay and social aspect still have to say I do find it silly that brain afk auto attacking in some open world zerg gives up to 300%+ of the rewards per hour, without cap, than the most difficult organised group content in the game does once per week.
    Just in terms of principle that doesn't make sense, just like if someone studied law or medicine mainly just because they enjoy it, they probably expect to earn more than if they had just gone directly into menial labor, so someone gearing and preparing for and learning Raids just for the fun of it might still expect rewards at least in parity to what they would get from holding down one in a zerg.
    It's logical that much greater effort should be more rewarding.

    Imo better rewards for Raids would be nice as carrot for more people to get into it, to then stay for the gameplay and community they might enjoy and form. They are not so much a personal concern though.

    I get that Anet really, really wants people to play their LW stuff, but they are stacking the deck a bit much in terms of to what content they lure players to with their loot carrots.

    Complaining about rewards doesn't mean that's all or even mainly what people play for though.

    Ahh, the good ol' excuses. Funny how they, like everything else are always the same.

  • DKRathalos.9625DKRathalos.9625 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Arcaniaxs.4519 said:
    Seriously is it this hard for u ppl to go raiding and find a training squad to teach you how to kill a boss? And then with Your LIs go find a strike

    Apparently, yes. If you haven't noticed, that is even the primary reason behind why Strikes were even created. If raids were more popular, they would be the content to be developed, and Devs would not feel the need to create "steping stones" to them. They definitely did not intend for raids to be stepping stones to strikes.

    So, something obviously went wrong. That part at least seems undeniable to me, even if we all are not in agreement on the precise details of that "something".

    Agree with Arca, you forgot there are people who enjoy WvW and PvP more than Raiding for endgame content. Strike was meant to be like casual things I think for PvE to get some money or drop.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @Arcaniaxs.4519 said:
    Strikes have better loot and they are daily

    This is the problem, IMO. If strikes are to be the steps leading to raiding, then strikes shouldn't have better loot. What's the incentive to raid, then?

    I thought it was the "challenge"? or has that always been a lie?

    LIke maybe the raidcommunity isn't a monolith who have different reasons/motivations to raid.
    Who would have thought that

    So, it's is the rewards again, right? That much is obvious, of course. When you see it once, you know it's true everywhere and i have seen the same in every game. Not every individual, of course but mostly, yes.

    I play only raids. I dont use gold for anything. I have my legendary armor already. Nothing to gain from raids exept the fun.
    I dont play anything else here because it is not fun for me. Maybe exept strikes sometime.

    If all raiders are thete for rewards. They learn the builds and get correct gear. Then why dont they relise that farming silverwastes while watching a movie provide more value?

  • Antioche.7034Antioche.7034 Member ✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Hyrai.8720 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I just repeat what i have seen, nothing more, nothing less.

    So youre basically a parrot that doesnt even understand what it's saying. Great...
    What you're representing here are highly subjective and individual experiences/opinions and in no way reliable sources. You should use websites like gw2efficiency etc. to get a deeper understanding of wealth distribution across the gw2 community and that raiders have the tendency to be richer and thus are less reliant on rewards.
    (though they did get this rich by playing lucrative content of course^^)

    Nah, i just tell you only what i have seen. It's true it is nothing but personal experience (which should be obvious, i mean come on...) but since it's true for every MMO i have played, can't really tell you anything else. Anytime anyone anywhere start talking about difficulty, sooner rather than later the people who say they "enjoy" difficulty come to tell everyone how it should give more stuff, every time. They, of course, also say they enjoy it but as soon as someone tells them "isn't it supposed to be fun for you, why more stuff?" the raiders especially knock them down with the might of a thousand suns.

    Even as someone who after having played for 8+ years doesn't really care much about rewards anymore and just enjoys Raiding for the gameplay and social aspect still have to say I do find it silly that brain afk auto attacking in some open world zerg gives up to 300%+ of the rewards per hour, without cap, than the most difficult organised group content in the game does once per week.
    Just in terms of principle that doesn't make sense, just like if someone studied law or medicine mainly just because they enjoy it, they probably expect to earn more than if they had just gone directly into menial labor, so someone gearing and preparing for and learning Raids just for the fun of it might still expect rewards at least in parity to what they would get from holding down one in a zerg.
    It's logical that much greater effort should be more rewarding.

    Imo better rewards for Raids would be nice as carrot for more people to get into it, to then stay for the gameplay and community they might enjoy and form. They are not so much a personal concern though.

    I get that Anet really, really wants people to play their LW stuff, but they are stacking the deck a bit much in terms of to what content they lure players to with their loot carrots.

    Complaining about rewards doesn't mean that's all or even mainly what people play for though.

    Ahh, the good ol' excuses. Funny how they, like everything else are always the same.

    Just to react quickly to this, even though the whole discussion concerning why people are playing raids is completly irrelevant to the thread, most people I know and raid with some times in the month are clearing all the wings around thrice a week, and most of them aren't doing it on alts, which means they basically get 6 unid gear for clearing the boss. Most raiders are raiding for fun, to learn new roles/proffessions/specs, or to try new strats or more hardcore kills. Honestly, rewards are just a kind of nice bonus that are around aswell.
    Overall there are many issues in the game that deserves fixing before "rewards" are fixed. Would have to study the number of gold you get from each content to even know if it requires balancing.

  • Giotto.2607Giotto.2607 Member ✭✭

    I think all those fracs and raids should be mini dungeons, instance content should not be include in GW2. It causing too many skill balance issues in this game and less people playing them. GW2 should not be an instance content game.

  • Hi Giotto ,

    I disagree that all content should be open world. You are correct in that hard instances content does present a skill gap. However , the skill gap between a benchmark raid berserker and a gold farm warrior has always existed even before raids. Asking for kill proof or li in strikes just a visible way that the player skill gap manifests in the game.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭
    100 LI [&AmT2LQEA]
    150 LI [&Apb2LQEA]
    200 LI [&Asj2LQEA]
    250 LI [&Avr2LQEA]
    

    There you go.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think many groups requesting LI have moved to the site that uses the API so good luck faking that.

  • Arcaniaxs.4519Arcaniaxs.4519 Member ✭✭✭

    @Giotto.2607 said:
    I think all those fracs and raids should be mini dungeons, instance content should not be include in GW2. It causing too many skill balance issues in this game and less people playing them. GW2 should not be an instance content game.

    So u are basically saying everyone should go for gold farming and pvp content and auto attacking world bosses xD
    Btw story is also a instance content part so watch your words mate:)))

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stop saying this.

    I LFG for strikes EVERY single day and I have NEVER, EVER been asked to reveal KI ever. And one hundred percent of the time I don't even host my own squad, I'm usually the one playing the Quickness Bran Power Support or Scourge in the group.

    This excessive whining needs to stop. I already lost raids, don't ruin strikes as well because YOU yourself keep getting into the wrong groups. The bad ones that can EASILY be ignored. That's how content gets ignored and gets cut and we go back to the boring run around open world kitten again.

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭

    Make your own group.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    Nah, i just tell you only what i have seen.

    seems to me like you only see what you want to see...

    Ahh, the good ol' excuses. Funny how they, like everything else are always the same.

    ah, there we go.
    any statement that doesnt agree with your biased opinion is either a lie or an excuse.
    thats one way to stay inside your personal bubble of bias.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @trixantea.1230 said:
    Shiverpeaks Pass is way to easy and can be done by any group of players regardless of their skill and IQ while WoJ/Bs can be a bit too difficult for players with average skills.

    I think that all strikes should be balanced around the same level of difficulty. If high skilled players find them too easy, it wouldn't hurt to givem a cm mode with higher rewards. Anet managed to implement that very well in fractals and I think that they should do the same thing for strikes.

    Pass can actually be done by 3 bearbows

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Giotto.2607 said:
    I think all those fracs and raids should be mini dungeons, instance content should not be include in GW2. It causing too many skill balance issues in this game and less people playing them. GW2 should not be an instance content game.

    An MMO by it's nature needs to offer a wide breadth of content to it's players in order to attract as many players as possible. This is as true for a juggernaut like WoW as it is for a middle of the road game like GW2 as it is for a smaller game such as DCUO.
    Catering exclusively to one play style with one type of content limits the game's audience and therefore it's revenue.
    For an 8 month period last year this game doubled down on the casual open world experience. The result was the lowest revenue in a single quarter this game had ever seen.

    GW2's "skill balance issues" isn't what limits it's audience. WoW struggles with the exact same issue.
    It's unwillingness to adequately accommodate more dedicated players, it's neglect of existing pillars such as raids, PvP and WvW, and the fact that it's visual progression is largely tied to the cash shop are far greater contributors to this game's population limits.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    @Giotto.2607 said:
    I think all those fracs and raids should be mini dungeons, instance content should not be include in GW2. It causing too many skill balance issues in this game and less people playing them. GW2 should not be an instance content game.

    Yep. Instances remove the massively part of the term MMORPG.
    Nowadays many „MMORPGs“ are nothing more than glorified lobby-dungeon crawlers. Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Not every part of an mmo needs or should involve the entire map. Dungeon crawls and raids are the the best way to provide fun controlled content. Imagine a map meta where one person touching oils wipes the map. Anet putting effort into raids and pushing out w1-3 in like 6 months was amazing. Burn out at the end game is severe at the moment. What to do after legendary armor and trinkets are complete ? Make an alt account I guess .

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

    Guess raids weren‘t also good enough to force paid conversions then, lol.
    No wonder the CORE game wasn‘t good enough when they tried to cater to the „everything must be hard“ mentality, which drove plenty of people away from HoT. They even had to nerf HoT, but revenue never recovered until PoF ;)

    But yeah, you‘re probably right about raids not being responsible for low revenue, the same way they aren‘t responsible for high revenue.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

    Guess raids weren‘t also good enough to force paid conversions then, lol.
    No wonder the CORE game wasn‘t good enough when they tried to cater to the „everything must be hard“ mentality, which drove plenty of people away from HoT. They even had to nerf HoT, but revenue never recovered until PoF ;)

    No, it's the core game that needs to be good enough to force conversions, not Raids. If players play the core game, get bored, and leave after a couple hours, Raids can't do anything about it. It's up to the game up to the expansion to force conversions, not the job of an expansion.

    As for POF, HOT was still selling when POF was released, so they were selling two expansions at the time, with HOT still being more expensive than POF. Guess what happened when HOT was bundled free with purchase of POF? Revenue tanked to the nether regions, meaning HOT was STILL selling very well before they bundled it with POF.

    Yeah, you‘re right. Raids don‘t drive revenue. They most likely barely bring in anything, hence why Anet doesn‘t create more of them.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

    Guess raids weren‘t also good enough to force paid conversions then, lol.
    No wonder the CORE game wasn‘t good enough when they tried to cater to the „everything must be hard“ mentality, which drove plenty of people away from HoT. They even had to nerf HoT, but revenue never recovered until PoF ;)

    No, it's the core game that needs to be good enough to force conversions, not Raids. If players play the core game, get bored, and leave after a couple hours, Raids can't do anything about it. It's up to the game up to the expansion to force conversions, not the job of an expansion.

    As for POF, HOT was still selling when POF was released, so they were selling two expansions at the time, with HOT still being more expensive than POF. Guess what happened when HOT was bundled free with purchase of POF? Revenue tanked to the nether regions, meaning HOT was STILL selling very well before they bundled it with POF.

    Yeah, you‘re right. Raids don‘t drive revenue. They most likely barely bring in anything, hence why Anet doesn‘t create more of them.

    The core game is what doesn't drive revenue as it's not good enough to force conversions. And since Raids depend on the core game to be good first, you can see the problem. Only players that get past the core game and say "this game is good, I'll buy the expansion" are even exposed to Raids. Maybe if the core game was better and didn't drive players away after the first few hours, the expansions would sell better and Raids would be more popular. But the core game was a tough wall to climb for almost 70% of the game's accounts (official data, they have less Achievement Points than a player that finished the Core game would have), that's a massive loss of player accounts that for some reason you attribute to Raids. You do you I guess even though you are factually wrong.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

    Guess raids weren‘t also good enough to force paid conversions then, lol.
    No wonder the CORE game wasn‘t good enough when they tried to cater to the „everything must be hard“ mentality, which drove plenty of people away from HoT. They even had to nerf HoT, but revenue never recovered until PoF ;)

    No, it's the core game that needs to be good enough to force conversions, not Raids. If players play the core game, get bored, and leave after a couple hours, Raids can't do anything about it. It's up to the game up to the expansion to force conversions, not the job of an expansion.

    As for POF, HOT was still selling when POF was released, so they were selling two expansions at the time, with HOT still being more expensive than POF. Guess what happened when HOT was bundled free with purchase of POF? Revenue tanked to the nether regions, meaning HOT was STILL selling very well before they bundled it with POF.

    Yeah, you‘re right. Raids don‘t drive revenue. They most likely barely bring in anything, hence why Anet doesn‘t create more of them.

    The core game is what doesn't drive revenue as it's not good enough to force conversions. And since Raids depend on the core game to be good first, you can see the problem. Only players that get past the core game and say "this game is good, I'll buy the expansion" are even exposed to Raids. Maybe if the core game was better and didn't drive players away after the first few hours, the expansions would sell better and Raids would be more popular. But the core game was a tough wall to climb for almost 70% of the game's accounts (official data, they have less Achievement Points than a player that finished the Core game would have), that's a massive loss of player accounts that for some reason you attribute to Raids. You do you I guess even though you are factually wrong.

    Ah yes, that‘s why revenue dropped after HoT and not during the drought before HoT.
    And Core being bad is the reason they nerfed HoT difficutly LUL.
    But doesn‘t matter, you can live in your own little echo chamber, probably using GW2 efficiency as your „official“ data, a site most people don‘t use, lol. But you‘re free to ignore the fact that raids don‘t get developed because they aren‘t worth it for Anet. Just blame everything else because raids can‘t pull their weight.

    Using your logic CORE is at fault for the low IBS revenue, „players just didn‘t finish core“ hehe. Not having an expansion in sight was totally not the reason for low revenue /s

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This line is beautiful:

    We’re making the core game experience free because we’re confident that anyone who loves Guild Wars 2 will buy Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.

    Link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/

    I guess not enough (of those new/free) players loved Guild Wars 2 enough to buy Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.

    And on an irrelevant point from the same article:

    If anyone can play Guild Wars 2 for free now, does that mean we’re switching business models to free-to-play? Are we going to be one of those games that aggressively monetizes free players through microtransactions? Absolutely not. Guild Wars 2 remains the same game it always has been.

    Looks at Build Templates. Rolleyes.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions. Nothing to do with Raids. The main problem with revenue in Guild Wars 2 has always been the core game.

    Guess raids weren‘t also good enough to force paid conversions then, lol.
    No wonder the CORE game wasn‘t good enough when they tried to cater to the „everything must be hard“ mentality, which drove plenty of people away from HoT. They even had to nerf HoT, but revenue never recovered until PoF ;)

    No, it's the core game that needs to be good enough to force conversions, not Raids. If players play the core game, get bored, and leave after a couple hours, Raids can't do anything about it. It's up to the game up to the expansion to force conversions, not the job of an expansion.

    As for POF, HOT was still selling when POF was released, so they were selling two expansions at the time, with HOT still being more expensive than POF. Guess what happened when HOT was bundled free with purchase of POF? Revenue tanked to the nether regions, meaning HOT was STILL selling very well before they bundled it with POF.

    Yeah, you‘re right. Raids don‘t drive revenue. They most likely barely bring in anything, hence why Anet doesn‘t create more of them.

    The core game is what doesn't drive revenue as it's not good enough to force conversions. And since Raids depend on the core game to be good first, you can see the problem. Only players that get past the core game and say "this game is good, I'll buy the expansion" are even exposed to Raids. Maybe if the core game was better and didn't drive players away after the first few hours, the expansions would sell better and Raids would be more popular. But the core game was a tough wall to climb for almost 70% of the game's accounts (official data, they have less Achievement Points than a player that finished the Core game would have), that's a massive loss of player accounts that for some reason you attribute to Raids. You do you I guess even though you are factually wrong.

    Ah yes, that‘s why revenue dropped after HoT and not during the drought before HoT.

    During the drought before HOT players needed to buy the game to try it. After it went free to play they didn't anymore, it was available to everyone for free.

    So players liked core more than HoT is what you‘re saying, since core revenue is higher than HoT+core? YEP.

    And Core being bad is the reason they nerfed HoT difficutly LUL.

    Difficulty has nothing to do with anything here. Core being bad doesn't have anything to do with difficulty either I'm not sure where that came from.

    Core still had higher revenue and players dropped HoT because of difficulty. You‘re free to ignore that.

    But doesn‘t matter, you can live in your own little echo chamber, probably using GW2 efficiency as your „official“ data, a site most people don‘t use, lol.

    I use the leaderboards.guildwars2.com which is as official as it can get.

    Man, those top 1k accounts for every region surely tell everything you need to know about the average players.

    But you‘re free to ignore the fact that raids don‘t get developed because they aren‘t worth it for Anet. Just blame everything else because raids can‘t pull their weight.

    As I already said, Raids need paid customers to work, if the core/free game isn't converting enough players than naturally Raids won't have enough players to work with.

    You can shift the blame all you want, but we know Raids didn‘t pull their weight. Anet made that clear.

    Using you logic CORE is at fault for the low IBS revenue, „players just didn‘t finish core“ hehe. Not having an expansion in sight was totally not the reason for low revenue /s

    Core is not at fault for IBS revenue, but bundling HOT with the purchase of POF is. And the direction they went with IBS neglecting almost all parts of their game for months. Of course not having an expansion in sight also contributed.

    IBS need paid customers to work, if the core/free game isn't converting enough players than naturally IBS won't have enough players to work with. (Heh)

    Edit: Don‘t think this discussion is worthwhile, your argument about Core is faulty at best, since you can use it for everything after core.
    I‘ll stop here, since I don‘t see the point to further discuss this matter with you. Anet has already decided what content they‘re going to release and there are no raids in the near future for a good reason. You‘re free to ignore the fact that Anet doubling down on raids with HoT hurt the game a lot and shift the blame to everything that isn‘t raids by moving the goalpost further and further, like your recent post about Templates. But facts are facts and Anet moving away from raids is telling enough about their role in the revenue.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    On average, there is no problem completing strikes with pugs. I had plenty of decent groups and we did gold runs. Except for boneskinner, I haven't tried that one yet, since it's always bunch of requirements. Sure, sometimes you get a group that will fail Whisper once or twice, but that's life and this is a game and I actually have more fun having all kind of runs, rather than pro runs, where you know exactly in advance how a run will go, since it's same party composition, same builds, same tactics... And these people are farming, so they are repeating exactly the same thing every day.

    People who look at this as their second job will obviously not appreciate extra time being spent. It's a sad thing really. Some people claim to have little time to play, so they excuse themselves on that. Of course they don't have enough time, if they treat it as a second job. They need to hit all the sweet spots for loot and money every day/week, otherwise they feel like they missed on something. The world starts collapsing as this week they might have skipped one fractal or one strike, so less money was made and it's considered a loss.

    So, the game becomes reflection of real world, where some people are ready to stomp on everything in order to squeeze every single cent out of situation, no fun allowed.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Gw 2 was made to be a casual mmorpg not hardcore like it became wich alienated 90% of player base who dont want sit and read mechanics or skills. just have fun. Core game was just that easy fun made for everyone. Hot is still to hard for most of the playerbase

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    On average, there is no problem completing strikes with pugs. I had plenty of decent groups and we did gold runs. Except for boneskinner, I haven't tried that one yet, since it's always bunch of requirements. Sure, sometimes you get a group that will fail Whisper once or twice, but that's life and this is a game and I actually have more fun having all kind of runs, rather than pro runs, where you know exactly in advance how a run will go, since it's same party composition, same builds, same tactics... And these people are farming, so they are repeating exactly the same thing every day.

    People who look at this as their second job will obviously not appreciate extra time being spent. It's a sad thing really. Some people claim to have little time to play, so they excuse themselves on that. Of course they don't have enough time, if they treat it as a second job. They need to hit all the sweet spots for loot and money every day/week, otherwise they feel like they missed on something. The world starts collapsing as this week they might have skipped one fractal or one strike, so less money was made and it's considered a loss.

    So, the game becomes reflection of real world, where some people are ready to stomp on everything in order to squeeze every single cent out of situation, no fun allowed.

    Tried with pugs failed 30 times as all wiped at first phase

  • @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    On average, there is no problem completing strikes with pugs. I had plenty of decent groups and we did gold runs. Except for boneskinner, I haven't tried that one yet, since it's always bunch of requirements. Sure, sometimes you get a group that will fail Whisper once or twice, but that's life and this is a game and I actually have more fun having all kind of runs, rather than pro runs, where you know exactly in advance how a run will go, since it's same party composition, same builds, same tactics... And these people are farming, so they are repeating exactly the same thing every day.

    People who look at this as their second job will obviously not appreciate extra time being spent. It's a sad thing really. Some people claim to have little time to play, so they excuse themselves on that. Of course they don't have enough time, if they treat it as a second job. They need to hit all the sweet spots for loot and money every day/week, otherwise they feel like they missed on something. The world starts collapsing as this week they might have skipped one fractal or one strike, so less money was made and it's considered a loss.

    So, the game becomes reflection of real world, where some people are ready to stomp on everything in order to squeeze every single cent out of situation, no fun allowed.

    Tried with pugs failed 30 times as all wiped at first phase

    Ahh, nothing like good old exaggeration to make your point, am I right? It's funny how same people (not you), who try to argue the point by sharing their one instance of bad experience or failed attempt and think they are making the point, contradict themselves, because in topics where other people made about fractals being filled with elitists and people are getting kicked for various reasons, they came in to say "You are making things up or you just had one bad experience, that means nothing and this is not usually what happens, so it's not a problem".

    But, to stay on topic. Finding solution to this is not an easy task. It's obvious by now strikes don't serve the purpose they were meant to serve. Well, we even knew that would be the case even before they released. Unfortunately the mindset of community or even players in general (in any game really) is what makes problems where they don't need to be. I wouldn't want to take away anyone freedom to make a group they want or play the game by having ten different requirements in their lfg description if they feel the need for it, because everyone should have a choice. I just wish people wouldn't take things so kitten serious in games.

  • Laila Lightness.8742Laila Lightness.8742 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @serialkicker.5274 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    On average, there is no problem completing strikes with pugs. I had plenty of decent groups and we did gold runs. Except for boneskinner, I haven't tried that one yet, since it's always bunch of requirements. Sure, sometimes you get a group that will fail Whisper once or twice, but that's life and this is a game and I actually have more fun having all kind of runs, rather than pro runs, where you know exactly in advance how a run will go, since it's same party composition, same builds, same tactics... And these people are farming, so they are repeating exactly the same thing every day.

    People who look at this as their second job will obviously not appreciate extra time being spent. It's a sad thing really. Some people claim to have little time to play, so they excuse themselves on that. Of course they don't have enough time, if they treat it as a second job. They need to hit all the sweet spots for loot and money every day/week, otherwise they feel like they missed on something. The world starts collapsing as this week they might have skipped one fractal or one strike, so less money was made and it's considered a loss.

    So, the game becomes reflection of real world, where some people are ready to stomp on everything in order to squeeze every single cent out of situation, no fun allowed.

    Tried with pugs failed 30 times as all wiped at first phase

    Ahh, nothing like good old exaggeration to make your point, am I right? It's funny how same people (not you), who try to argue the point by sharing their one instance of bad experience or failed attempt and think they are making the point, contradict themselves, because in topics where other people made about fractals being filled with elitists and people are getting kicked for various reasons, they came in to say "You are making things up or you just had one bad experience, that means nothing and this is not usually what happens, so it's not a problem".

    But, to stay on topic. Finding solution to this is not an easy task. It's obvious by now strikes don't serve the purpose they were meant to serve. Well, we even knew that would be the case even before they released. Unfortunately the mindset of community or even players in general (in any game really) is what makes problems where they don't need to be. I wouldn't want to take away anyone freedom to make a group they want or play the game by having ten different requirements in their lfg description if they feel the need for it, because everyone should have a choice. I just wish people wouldn't take things so kitten serious in games.

    Sad is i didnt exhagerate boneskinner needs a nerf so i dont have to through this ever again. Solution make all strikes like the pass one but with less mechanics and dmg so all can play and not discriminate against open world players and then do same to raids and fracts. And remove abillity to kick someone from an instance

  • serialkicker.5274serialkicker.5274 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:

    @serialkicker.5274 said:
    On average, there is no problem completing strikes with pugs. I had plenty of decent groups and we did gold runs. Except for boneskinner, I haven't tried that one yet, since it's always bunch of requirements. Sure, sometimes you get a group that will fail Whisper once or twice, but that's life and this is a game and I actually have more fun having all kind of runs, rather than pro runs, where you know exactly in advance how a run will go, since it's same party composition, same builds, same tactics... And these people are farming, so they are repeating exactly the same thing every day.

    People who look at this as their second job will obviously not appreciate extra time being spent. It's a sad thing really. Some people claim to have little time to play, so they excuse themselves on that. Of course they don't have enough time, if they treat it as a second job. They need to hit all the sweet spots for loot and money every day/week, otherwise they feel like they missed on something. The world starts collapsing as this week they might have skipped one fractal or one strike, so less money was made and it's considered a loss.

    So, the game becomes reflection of real world, where some people are ready to stomp on everything in order to squeeze every single cent out of situation, no fun allowed.

    Tried with pugs failed 30 times as all wiped at first phase

    Ahh, nothing like good old exaggeration to make your point, am I right? It's funny how same people (not you), who try to argue the point by sharing their one instance of bad experience or failed attempt and think they are making the point, contradict themselves, because in topics where other people made about fractals being filled with elitists and people are getting kicked for various reasons, they came in to say "You are making things up or you just had one bad experience, that means nothing and this is not usually what happens, so it's not a problem".

    But, to stay on topic. Finding solution to this is not an easy task. It's obvious by now strikes don't serve the purpose they were meant to serve. Well, we even knew that would be the case even before they released. Unfortunately the mindset of community or even players in general (in any game really) is what makes problems where they don't need to be. I wouldn't want to take away anyone freedom to make a group they want or play the game by having ten different requirements in their lfg description if they feel the need for it, because everyone should have a choice. I just wish people wouldn't take things so kitten serious in games.

    Sad is i didnt exhagerate boneskinner needs a nerf so i dont have to through this ever again. Solution make all strikes like the pass one but with less mechanics and dmg so all can play and not discriminate against open world players and then do same to raids and fracts

    So, you failed because he killed you. That's different. One doesn't have to be meta firebrand or meta warrior or 200 raid bosses under their belts or whatever in order to learn mechanics. People who have no or very little experience will obviously struggle at a boss with mechanics. It's a learning process. Even in raids, you don't need the numbers you see on youtube videos to kill the bosses. Mechanics are way more important.
    Besides, you chose obviously the hardest strike mission with most likely the worst bad day example to make your point.

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd given up already If I were you :) "It's" not worth your time.

    Anyway, some bias personal experience - I dropped GW2 the first time I started playing during the pre-HoT content drought. The core gameplay kept me in-game for so long but after a while I turned out be extremely dreadful and mundane. Combat was good but you can only do same dungeons so many times over and over. It's the HoT that was the most enjoyable. GW2 felt like actual MMO not a "play together alone" kind of experience. While It's great we have story content and open world maps there should be little bit for everybody. Strikes AND raids being part of it.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Gw 2 was made to be a casual mmorpg not hardcore like it became wich alienated 90% of player base who dont want sit and read mechanics or skills. just have fun. Core game was just that easy fun made for everyone. Hot is still to hard for most of the playerbase

    Please cite one piece of developer hype talking about how this was made to be a "casual" game.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Gw 2 was made to be a casual mmorpg not hardcore like it became wich alienated 90% of player base who dont want sit and read mechanics or skills. just have fun. Core game was just that easy fun made for everyone. Hot is still to hard for most of the playerbase

    Please cite one piece of developer hype talking about how this was made to be a "casual" game.

    The game was always supposed to have hard content in it. Dungeons were their original design for that but ended up not fitting their vision..hence why we have fractals, raids and strike missions.

    "The game is for casuals" gets brought up but the aforementioned is always left out because it doesn't fit the narrative people try to push and in some cases undermines their argument.

    And my point is going all the way back to the hype for Dungeons you can see the developers talking (in pre-release) about the challenge offered.
    I have never seen a single piece of hype from a developer talking about how easy the content was or how the game was made for "Casuals".

    I would very much like @Laila Lightness.8742 to provide such a quote to back up their claims.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Gw 2 was made to be a casual mmorpg not hardcore like it became wich alienated 90% of player base who dont want sit and read mechanics or skills. just have fun. Core game was just that easy fun made for everyone. Hot is still to hard for most of the playerbase

    You need to find a good definition of the word casual you throw around so much.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Laila Lightness.8742 said:
    Gw 2 was made to be a casual mmorpg not hardcore like it became wich alienated 90% of player base who dont want sit and read mechanics or skills. just have fun. Core game was just that easy fun made for everyone. Hot is still to hard for most of the playerbase

    Can't say I envy you getting piled on like this. HoT revenue clearly showed that you're not the only one thinking like that.
    Let's hope the new expansion doesn't end up like HoT at release.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @Ooops.8694 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Let's hope the new expansion doesn't end up like HoT at release.

    Yeah, instead of an expansion like HoT that was actively played for years, let's do something like PoF with it's maps mostly dead after a couple of weeks... Oh, wait! I actually prefer paying for interesting content, not free loot.

    If you don't enjoy the direction of the game, don't pay. It's as easy as that. Anet will do the rest by prioritizing the content that earns them money.
    But yeah, I also enjoy interesting content, not free loot like in HoT.
    AB / Gerent / Matriarch? Not hard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    T4 Verdant Brink? We're only here for the Gemstone!

    But it wasn't like that on HoT release. This update needed to happen for players to actually play HoT zones:
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/april-19-2016/
    Making them easier and more rewarding. Barely anyone tried Gerent after failing a couple of times at first.

    But that's what the playerbase actively plays, not the "hard" metas like Vabbi. They play the free loot maps like HoT.
    Stick infusions into some bossloot, and suddenly everyone is doing Piñata on a "dead" map.
    Give out Amalgated Gemstones, and suddenly Doppelganger is done all the time.
    Sounds to me like you haven't been to those PoF maps in a long time ;)

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Post HoT revenue, when Anet doubled down on raids hurt the game, when they tried to go in a similiar direction.

    According to the official information given by NCSoft themselves (the people with the data! Remember they DO have the data!), the reason the revenue after HOT was lower was because the CORE game wasn't good enough to force paid conversions.

    Do you remember what they said exactly? Because there's a major difference between saying that the f2p conversion is below expactations, and saying that f2p conversion is the primary (or even major) reason beyond revenue loss.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    This line is beautiful:

    We’re making the core game experience free because we’re confident that anyone who loves Guild Wars 2 will buy Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.

    Link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/

    I guess not enough (of those new/free) players loved Guild Wars 2 enough to buy Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns.

    Maybe because not everyone that loved GW2 liked what they heard about HoT.

    And on an irrelevant point from the same article:

    If anyone can play Guild Wars 2 for free now, does that mean we’re switching business models to free-to-play? Are we going to be one of those games that aggressively monetizes free players through microtransactions? Absolutely not. Guild Wars 2 remains the same game it always has been.

    Looks at Build Templates. Rolleyes.

    Yeah, that one is very sad.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Ooops.8694 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Let's hope the new expansion doesn't end up like HoT at release.

    Yeah, instead of an expansion like HoT that was actively played for years, let's do something like PoF with it's maps mostly dead after a couple of weeks... Oh, wait! I actually prefer paying for interesting content, not free loot.

    If you don't enjoy the direction of the game, don't pay. It's as easy as that. Anet will do the rest by prioritizing the content that earns them money.
    But yeah, I also enjoy interesting content, not free loot like in HoT.
    AB / Gerent / Matriarch? Not hard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    T4 Verdant Brink? We're only here for the Gemstone!

    But it wasn't like that on HoT release. This update needed to happen for players to actually play HoT zones:
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/april-19-2016/
    Making them easier and more rewarding. Barely anyone tried Gerent after failing a couple of times at first.

    But that's what the playerbase actively plays, not the "hard" metas like Vabbi. They play the free loot maps like HoT.
    Stick infusions into some bossloot, and suddenly everyone is doing Piñata on a "dead" map.
    Give out Amalgated Gemstones, and suddenly Doppelganger is done all the time.
    Sounds to me like you haven't been to those PoF maps in a long time ;)

    Let's look at all of those bounty trains people are doing. kekw.

    Let's look at the metas people complain about they can't complete because no one is in PoF maps.

    Let's look at those who can't finish their griffin because there's not enough people to start things like the Deadhouse

    I can go online for a week during prime time and take screenies of how empty these maps are. Who are you trying to fool here? Us? You know where everyone is right now?

    Drizzlewood earning gold and not those so called PoF maps you hail so much. Even DRAGON STAND and AURIC BASIN is getting more play than the four maps PoF gave us before Living Story 4 came about. Hell, every DAY I see Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths being active during prime time. What does that say about PoF compared to HoT??

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2020

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Ooops.8694 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Let's hope the new expansion doesn't end up like HoT at release.

    Yeah, instead of an expansion like HoT that was actively played for years, let's do something like PoF with it's maps mostly dead after a couple of weeks... Oh, wait! I actually prefer paying for interesting content, not free loot.

    If you don't enjoy the direction of the game, don't pay. It's as easy as that. Anet will do the rest by prioritizing the content that earns them money.
    But yeah, I also enjoy interesting content, not free loot like in HoT.
    AB / Gerent / Matriarch? Not hard ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    T4 Verdant Brink? We're only here for the Gemstone!

    But it wasn't like that on HoT release. This update needed to happen for players to actually play HoT zones:
    https://guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/april-19-2016/
    Making them easier and more rewarding. Barely anyone tried Gerent after failing a couple of times at first.

    But that's what the playerbase actively plays, not the "hard" metas like Vabbi. They play the free loot maps like HoT.
    Stick infusions into some bossloot, and suddenly everyone is doing Piñata on a "dead" map.
    Give out Amalgated Gemstones, and suddenly Doppelganger is done all the time.
    Sounds to me like you haven't been to those PoF maps in a long time ;)

    Let's look at all of those bounty trains people are doing. kekw.


    OMEGALUL, just had to log on, first thing I can see.

    Let's look at the metas people complain about they can't complete because no one is in PoF maps.

    I know, people would rather do the easy AB lootfarm than the hard Vabbi meta, I've stated that in my post. People like easy free loot. But once the meta is over? AB is dead. Just like TD and VB:

    Let's look at those who can't finish their griffin because there's not enough people to start things like the Deadhouse

    Sure, and let's compare it with the Vinetooth Prime event! Or the Mushroom queen! Events unrelated to the map metas.

    I can go online for a week during prime time and take screenies of how empty these maps are. Who are you trying to fool here? Us? You know where everyone is right now?

    Do it. But don't skew the data by checking it during HoT meta, while PoF metas aren't active. But I doubt you'll be able to do that without your bias showing. You should also use data from both EU and NA.
    Sorry that Anet made more revenue during PoF than during HoT.

    Drizzlewood earning gold and not those so called PoF maps you hail so much. Even DRAGON STAND and AURIC BASIN is getting more play than the four maps PoF gave us before Living Story 4 came about. Hell, every DAY I see Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths being active during prime time. What does that say about PoF compared to HoT??

    Of course Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths are active during prime time. But once the meta is "complete" (Can't say that about verdant brink, they leave as soon as matriarch is dead) everyone vanishes, just like on PoF maps. That's nothing new.

    Like I've said people are on the easy maps with the free loot.
    Drizzlewood is the current active one. That's what I said, free loot maps are popular, but somehow you completely didn't get it. Didn't expect anything else.

    Who are you trying to fool here? Do you really want to pretend that people would rather play hard maps than free loot ones? LULW
    Also, where am i "hailing" PoF maps? Strawman much? Absolute Pepega statement.
    Have you actually been to the PoF maps during their primetime? Have you seen how many people do Piñata just for the infusion?

    Fun fact: It doesn't matter what you subjectively percieve about HoT and PoF, Anet ultimately have the stats. They will decide how the maps of the new expansion are going to end up like. And looking at Drizzlewoods' population, free loot seems to be the design Anet has choosen, not difficulty.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • I tried once to strike without kp recs, and I really don't think this is fun actually.

  • Ooops.8694Ooops.8694 Member ✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Who are you trying to fool here? Do you really want to pretend that people would rather play hard maps than free loot ones? LULW

    No, most people are actually stupid and prefer the free loot map... for a few weeks. Then they just leave and play something else, because there's nothing to do anymore and it became boring. That getting the difficulty just right is the most important thing in any game should be known for years...
    Speaking of:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Fun fact: It doesn't matter what you subjectively percieve about HoT and PoF, Anet ultimately have the stats.

    Yes, Anet has the stats and numbers to base their decisions on. And HoT was so badly received that they decided to do another expansion 2 years later, while that expansion was so great they continued to... wait, i was told to not feed the trolls.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ooops.8694 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Who are you trying to fool here? Do you really want to pretend that people would rather play hard maps than free loot ones? LULW

    No, most people are actually stupid and prefer the free loot map... for a few weeks. Then they just leave and play something else, because there's nothing to do anymore and it became boring. That getting the difficulty just right is the most important thing in any game should be known for years...
    Speaking of:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    Fun fact: It doesn't matter what you subjectively percieve about HoT and PoF, Anet ultimately have the stats.

    Yes, Anet has the stats and numbers to base their decisions on. And HoT was so badly received that they decided to do another expansion 2 years later, while that expansion was so great they continued to... wait, i was told to not feed the trolls.

    If the content is enjoyable by most people, doesn‘t that mean Anet got the difficulty right?

    I still see plenty of people do AB meta, Gerent, Pinata, Doppelganger, Deathbranded Shatterer, Drakkar and the newest addition Drizzlewood. Most of those have been out for more than a few weeks and are still completed daily. Easy free loot content that‘s still alive after years.

    You want harder content, I‘ll just repeat what somebody else already said in this thread:
    You are not entitled to something only because you want it.

    Anet decides with their stats. Also, falling back to ad-hominem attacks by calling the majority stupid, because they like a different kind of content, or me a troll is nothing short of petty.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Lacko.6572Lacko.6572 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ecoxiss.1079 said:
    I think that looking for Killproofs for Strikes is a Problem and shouldnt be allowed by Arenanet. They are designed to inspire new players and casuals to start raiding but 80% of the LFG Groups have started to do this Killproof Nonsense in Strikes too. This is exactly why Raids arent much played and wont get new stuff added. Its just spliting the community further.

    Maybe if you casuals actually played the game instead of demanding to get carried and constantly crying about elitism, we would not have to make requirements that filter you out. u can still do daily icebrood construct and maybe fraenir with kodans if u manage to press more than 1 button. but I sure as hell don't want ppl like you on Boneskinner, Whisperer of Jormag who can rival some of the game's raid bosses.

  • Lacko.6572Lacko.6572 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    If you don't have the kill proof, open your own squad and don't ask for kill proof.

    Just ignore the raiders and let them wait for hours to get people join their squads.

    more like 2 minutes lol