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Running antitoxin rune & still being unable to do anything vs Immob ranger/druid

SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 10, 2020 in WvW

I am running cleanse sigil, sigil of generosity, antitoxin rune, and even with food & water signet creating a total of -65% incoming condi duration, also with weapon condi cleanses, I am unable to do anything beyond sit and die to immob rangers. They bind me, I attack and attack and attack and even though I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds it takes far too long just to kill the roots, and then I'm immobed again, cleanse it, immobed again immediately, and then the roots are back again already and I proceed to die stupidly to someone playing a build that is 0% risk 100% reward.

I actually can't think of anything worse in the game that I've ever encountered, at any point in time. I would rather fight 3 condi mirages than 1 immob ranger. I would rather fight perma-stealth no-balls rifle deadeye. At least I can PLAY the game vs those builds.

solemn

<13

Comments

  • aaron.7850aaron.7850 Member ✭✭✭

    Sounds like fun, I know what my next class will be

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No idea what the build you are referring to. Sounds not fun tho

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    Play core necro and absolutely demolish condi druids.

  • This is one of the reasons I went and found a way to invest all my anticondition gear to give me over -100% in inhibiting condition duration. Totally worth it cause these types of builds no longer present a threat

  • Doo Lally.8594Doo Lally.8594 Member ✭✭✭

    Anything dps and you are toast to these - may as well lie down, die and then waypoint.

    However if you have any sort of tankiness, condi or sustain then they are laughable. Annoying as heck yes but I literally jumped around one for 10 minutes until we both parted having hardly damaged each other.

    Anet balance - comparable to a chocolate teapot for usefulness.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    It's a problem that's annoyed me for years too.

    There simply isn't enough defense against these mechanics compared to how much incoming effects you can sustain.

    It's why i've stated in the past that we need a short 1sec immunity phase when using stun breaks and something similar for immob that gets cleansed as well.
    It's far.. far too easy at this point to get stunlocked to death by even small groups even if you have several stunlocks in your build.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, WvW is not a place for single player balance. The build is disgusting, truly a frustrating experience and near unbeatable in the correct hands, but as it only excels in 1v1 situations in WvW, it'd be a cold day in the Underworld before ANet brings it back into line. The sad truth of WvW. As refrence, I've fought this ranger build using Antitoxin runes as a Weaver with Water and Woven Strikes and still could barely managed to cleanse the conditions at the expense of literally all my regen/swiftness applying abilities.

    Anyway, I'd say the best course of action we can take is to record these battles and post the fights here on the forum or reddit. Taking about it is one thing, but if players start posting videos the devs can actually see the ridiculousness they're unleashed in small scale WvW and atleast then they can't feign ignorance (oh who am I kidding xD).

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    I expected as much, honestly I encourage it, please make it so obvious to anet that it gets patched faster.

    If everyone switches over to Roots Drood, ANET will simply release an update that nerfs Thieves and Mesmers again, and maybe give 10 target stability back to Firebrands.

    There are days when I think The Joker is in charge of competitive balance changes - anything to promote more chaos.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    Have you tried using the Resistance boon or movement skills that ignore immobs instead?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    I have a solution for Ancient Seeds. Instead of allowing a trait to instantly trigger an elite skill every 10 sec, we make it so you have to use an elite skill to trigger the trait. Also, increase the cooldown to something like 45 sec and have the immobilize occur after 3 sec delay and be dodgeable.

    Half the hp of the vines.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    I have a solution for Ancient Seeds. Instead of allowing a trait to instantly trigger an elite skill every 10 sec, we make it so you have to use an elite skill to trigger the trait. Also, increase the cooldown to something like 45 sec and have the immobilize occur after 3 sec delay and be dodgeable.

    Half the hp of the vines.

    There are no physical vines, I forget to mention that part. It just shows the vine icon on your skill bar and you can dodge the effect (no pulsing) after the "fuse" expires.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    What class are you OP?

    Immob is pretty dumb yea.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    @Aaron Forestman.4758 said:
    If you've got all this cleanse, why are you standing in the roots? All you have to do is remove the immob and then walk a little bit out of them.

    If immob was the only issue then yes having those clears would be enough. But the immob is covered by bleeding (easily spammed by short bow AA), cripple, poison, vuln, sometimes torment and slow. You usually spend your condi cleanses taking care of those conditions and by the time you get around to clearing the immob, you've used up all your cleanses and the ranger is kiting and preparing to daze you again to repeat the process. Or they just straight up immob you again since they have quiet a few options to do just that. Its not as simple as clearing the immob and walking away in that sense.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    @fuzzyp.6295 said:
    Unfortunately, WvW is not a place for single player balance. The build is disgusting, truly a frustrating experience and near unbeatable in the correct hands, but as it only excels in 1v1 situations in WvW, it'd be a cold day in the Underworld before ANet brings it back into line. The sad truth of WvW. As refrence, I've fought this ranger build using Antitoxin runes as a Weaver with Water and Woven Strikes and still could barely managed to cleanse the conditions at the expense of literally all my regen/swiftness applying abilities.

    Anyway, I'd say the best course of action we can take is to record these battles and post the fights here on the forum or reddit. Taking about it is one thing, but if players start posting videos the devs can actually see the ridiculousness they're unleashed in small scale WvW and atleast then they can't feign ignorance (oh who am I kidding xD).

    Normally I'd agree with you, but Immobilise is a very powerful condition and this build is useful even in a zerg, not just 1v1. Properly skilled a Druid has acess to something like 6-7 Immobilisation skills, almost all of them AoE, and can keep entire parties rooted solo. Sure, they can clear the roots with cleanses and attacks but not before allied forces run them over.

    Its the condition that's the problem, not the build. This is just the only build in the game that can truly spam it.

    If you want to see how powerful builds like this really are go to PvE and play Fractals or Raids where its literally used to cheese the content because enemies can't do anything against it. Its not much different in WvW, players are just a bit smarter.

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  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't run in zergs anymore so I haven't seen many druids catching large groups, but I have heard more and more guilds are looking for immob heavy classes. If true, I hope ANet can adjust the condition a bit, perhaps greatly reduce the time you are immobile for or reduce the amount of immo available per class.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10, 2020

    Is there no ala leap skill from warrior on ele that removes roots per leap?

    I wonder if your facing someone running malice sigils and condi duration food

    And probably runes of the grove

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, druid immobilize is stupid and should be changed. Usually when you meet druid theyre doing literally nothing, besides immobilize.
    Like for real, when I do outnumbered fights and see constant immobilize, theres 95% chance that one of bajs im fighting is druid. And most of druids dont know what theyre doing, besides trolling with immobilize. They do 0 damage, they dont heal anyone, just spam immobilize.
    Nice game design (fun part is that usually this trolling with immobilize is doing more work than rest of the fighting group, but thats another story).

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pro tip:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Revenant

    This allows you to run out of the vines so the immob doesn't reapply. It has the same cooldown as the immob trait.

    Remember you can destroy the vines. Any point blank AoE will do, and conditions like burn will do alot. Warrior/revs/necros have specific traits that help, guardian/mesmer/thief have teleports to take you out of them, engineer can convert it to resistance, rangers have ranged counterpressure (roots do no dmg) and elementalists have high damage point blank AoE.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    Have you tried using the Resistance boon or movement skills that ignore immobs instead?

    I can't use warrior skills on ele and ele has no resistance

    @rng.1024 said:
    Pro tip:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Revenant

    This allows you to run out of the vines so the immob doesn't reapply. It has the same cooldown as the immob trait.

    Remember you can destroy the vines. Any point blank AoE will do, and conditions like burn will do alot. Warrior/revs/necros have specific traits that help, guardian/mesmer/thief have teleports to take you out of them, engineer can convert it to resistance, rangers have ranged counterpressure (roots do no dmg) and elementalists have high damage point blank AoE.

    Ty that's a good tip
    But
    This brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you want to see how powerful builds like this really are go to PvE and play Fractals or Raids where its literally used to cheese the content because enemies can't do anything against it. Its not much different in WvW, players are just a bit smarter.

    +1

    solemn

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    How useful this is really depends on your profession, but be aware that you can teleport out of vines and they'll stop reapplying Immob on you. Also, as far as I know, the Ancient Seeds trait entangle effect relies on CCing your target, so builds using it can be countered somewhat by Stability.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Ty that's a good tip
    But
    This brings me to the same issue I have with the condi meta. I don't want to be boxed into running one rune/setup just because one or two builds are ridiculous, and running this to counter them puts me at a competitive disadvantage vs every other build in the game where I'd benefit more from other runes.

    Then dont.

    I dont want be boxed into running a ranged condi bunker over a few obscene enemy power builds because it puts me at a competetive disadvantage over anti-condi/condi-transfer or against larger groups due to exponentially decreaseing effectivness or against reflects either but there you go.

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  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

    The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Kondor.2904Kondor.2904 Member ✭✭✭

    At first I thought it was a 60% troll post, since I don't understand how you can complain about condis when playing with antitoxin runes and cleansing sigils, especially in a 1v1 scenario. Maybe you should try to actually build yourself around avoiding getting hit by condis and using cleansing/antitoxin as a backup, instead of facetanking and trying to clear every single condi ? Just a thought, idk.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    @Jski.6180 said:
    The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

    The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

    You have to realize the nature of Ancient Seeds is to continually apply immob until the roots are destroyed. No amount of cleanse priority, cleanse per sec or mass cleanse even will help you deal.

    It is very clear this trait has 3 intended counters:

    • Destroy root (like a mesmer clone)
    • Evade incoming CC skills
    • Force a dodge after a 1-time cleanse

    As for every condi build in this game, they have 4-5 skills you need to be aware of. If your build is remotely good you will have enough sustain to forget about the other condition applications.

    This is no different from a power build. If you eat a warrior's F1 into Full Counter into F1, you should lose 75% of your health no question about it. It's all about saving your cleanse until the right time instead of panic cleansing after the 1st of 5 applications - just like when to dodge against a power build.

    Here is how to never worry about ranger immob ever again:
    1. Equip a sigil of Energy/Cleansing in both sets
    2. When immobed weapon-swap and instantly dodge in any direction

    You can do this trick every 10 seconds, which literally is the exact same cooldown as their immob and it will always work since the immob reapplies (therefore comes first for cleanse) every second.

    I can't stress enough how important it is to dodge right after your cleanse when fighting an immob druid because the roots will reapply it otherwise. Even better there is a good chance the druid will waste his burst here because he thinks he got you stuck.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So you can cleanse it but it will re apply so cleanse then dodge, then win? :3 to think the counter is simple

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2020

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    The problem is condi as an effect was never intended for a main dmg effect so the counter condi clears are very simple effects only going after the last condi applied. This dose not work well in pvp or wvw it fine in pve though.

    The fix is to make condi clears have an order of condition to hit much like boon strips / corruption do. All of the nerfs and buffs to condi and adding more clears to the game will do nothing but be an endless tail chasing. Condi clears needs to be updated in a massive way.

    You have to realize the nature of Ancient Seeds is to continually apply immob until the roots are destroyed. No amount of cleanse priority, cleanse per sec or mass cleanse even will help you deal.

    It is very clear this trait has 3 intended counters:

    • Destroy root (like a mesmer clone)
    • Evade incoming CC skills
    • Force a dodge after a 1-time cleanse

    As for every condi build in this game, they have 4-5 skills you need to be aware of. If your build is remotely good you will have enough sustain to forget about the other condition applications.

    This is no different from a power build. If you eat a warrior's F1 into Full Counter into F1, you should lose 75% of your health no question about it. It's all about saving your cleanse until the right time instead of panic cleansing after the 1st of 5 applications - just like when to dodge against a power build.

    Here is how to never worry about ranger immob ever again:
    1. Equip a sigil of Energy/Cleansing in both sets
    2. When immobed weapon-swap and instantly dodge in any direction

    You can do this trick every 10 seconds, which literally is the exact same cooldown as their immob and it will always work since the immob reapplies (therefore comes first for cleanse) every second.

    I can't stress enough how important it is to dodge right after your cleanse when fighting an immob druid because the roots will reapply it otherwise. Even better there is a good chance the druid will waste his burst here because he thinks he got you stuck.

    That dose not changed the fact that condi clears as an effect is out dated for a version of the game that has not been part of real balancing for years now. The old condi system had most skill used condis as a supplementary type of effects often just having 1 or 2 condis on a skill on some what high duration but very long cd. As they added in more condi types and gear as well as much lower cd of the skills they made condis into there own skill type but the counter never got the update it needed as well.

    Roots should stop ppl for only for a moment it should never stop you forever but it should make you use a condi clear just 1 condi clear not your full uritily bar to eat though all of the cover condi spam. You can destroy roots effects you can even clear the full bar of condi once but after that your simply out of skill to a way 10 sec cd of a pulsuing root effect how is that even balance.
    You seem to miss that its not just the root in a lot of ways its not the root it self that IS the problem here its the spam of other condis that cover the root making it where you need to use 2 -3 skills to get to that root effect for one pulsus only to have to do it all over for the next root skill or pulses. Something like warriors root even ele root are not as bad NOT because they do not pulses but because these classes lack condi cover.

    Its realty simple how to fix this you make condi clears hit condi types not the last condi applied. The way the game is balanced condi "boons" (as they are simply netive boons that you apply on others) are not treated like positive boons. Clears and conversion should act just like strips and corruptions. If they dont then the game will always need to lean more on the def side of game play then aggressive.

    Added note: Per dev. it seems like not all strips have priority of boon types that very much news to me. I still stand by my suggestion for condi clears.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kiwituatara.6053kiwituatara.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

    If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

    I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:
    Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

    If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

    I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

    I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

    I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

    And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

    solemn

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

    The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

    But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

    Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

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  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Vids or it didn't happen.

    D:

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  • len.7809len.7809 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    I am running cleanse sigil, sigil of generosity, antitoxin rune, and even with food & water signet creating a total of -65% incoming condi duration, also with weapon condi cleanses, I am unable to do anything beyond sit and die to immob rangers. They bind me, I attack and attack and attack and even though I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds it takes far too long just to kill the roots, and then I'm immobed again, cleanse it, immobed again immediately, and then the roots are back again already and I proceed to die stupidly to someone playing a build that is 0% risk 100% reward.

    I actually can't think of anything worse in the game that I've ever encountered, at any point in time. I would rather fight 3 condi mirages than 1 immob ranger. I would rather fight perma-stealth no-balls rifle deadeye. At least I can PLAY the game vs those builds.

    immobilized every 1.5 seconds. Yikes.
    It's easy to deal with if you are playing a warrior, any skill involving movement, will cleanse it and move away from the root. The rest? P.R.A.Y.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

    Feel free to replicate my results.
    Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.
    edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

    solemn

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @saerni.2584 said:
    So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

    The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

    But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

    Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

    You can't just deconstruct everything down to the theoretical. I play weaver relatively aggressively and if a fight lasts over 2.5 minutes I'll usually just disengage because they're clearly running full sustain which I do not. Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.

    & since when is binding roots a red circle/field that you can simply step out of.
    You are required to clear the roots & clear the immob/wait it out, at which point you will be immobilized again and then given roots again.
    But I should "just dodge" or "don't stand in red circles", I assume. Thx


    Alright you know what, I'll test the druid build. I know it's obviously going to be easier to counter if I'm more familiar with it. It just struck me as being absurdly powerful, even for a build that I hadn't tried and thus didn't really understand. There are a few builds like that out there though, and they're all relatively intuitive in their counters -- yet immob druid is something different.

    solemn

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

    Feel free to replicate my results.
    Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.
    edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

    Using your own words...

    You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

    There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

    Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

    Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

    Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

    Feel free to replicate my results.
    Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.
    edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

    Using your own words...

    You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

    There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

    Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

    Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

    Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

    Actually, immobilized is a very powerful condition in blob vs blob. Eles that run arcane (elemental surge) can mass immob enemies, hence making bombs much more potent. By no means is immob a joke in teamplay.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    So basically you have two players running some kind of sustain build. The Weaver is more so a sustain build versus condi than a general sustain build.

    The condi Druid is struggling to get the Weaver down because the weaver has a lot of cleanses and barrier. The Weaver is struggling because the Druid is also using decent amounts of cleanse but also has stealth and mobility skills to avoid getting hit with many applications of condi.

    But, because the Weaver lacks stealth and took more hits over time compared to the Druid, the Druid wins the overall fight after an extended engagement. Without Ancient Seeds, the Druid wouldn’t have been able to apply enough conditions to overwhelm the Weaver and the fight would probably have stalemated out.

    Which sounds really painfully awful to me. Why should Ancient Seeds be nerfed? Mobility skills that cleanse immobilize or a single cleanse + dodge get you out of the seeds. There is counter play. You want your build to passively counter the seeds without having to play around it. Seeds aren’t a normal immobilize. If I have to fight this build I don’t think “I need to cleanse.” I think “I need to use mobility to get out of the seeds.” It’s like a pulsing field but tiny. It’s not “just dodge.” It’s “don’t stand in red circles.”

    You can't just deconstruct everything down to the theoretical. I play weaver relatively aggressively and if a fight lasts over 2.5 minutes I'll usually just disengage because they're clearly running full sustain which I do not. Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.

    & since when is binding roots a red circle/field that you can simply step out of.
    You are required to clear the roots & clear the immob/wait it out, at which point you will be immobilized again and then given roots again.
    But I should "just dodge" or "don't stand in red circles", I assume. Thx


    Alright you know what, I'll test the druid build. I know it's obviously going to be easier to counter if I'm more familiar with it. It just struck me as being absurdly powerful, even for a build that I hadn't tried and thus didn't really understand. There are a few builds like that out there though, and they're all relatively intuitive in their counters -- yet immob druid is something different.

    I only meant sustain in terms of condi. With that much cleanse it took him an awfully long time to kill you.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    I read this as ' I usually win 7 or 8/10 with my OP build with maximum cheese, but now I have found a build that counters mine, pls nerf'.

    Feel free to replicate my results.
    Seriously, that's a genuine challenge.
    edit: to him, not everybody. It's not really that difficult, but I'm curious if you can back up your statement.

    Using your own words...

    You brag that you have a 70%-80% win rate in 1v1. You brag that you don’t have any problems beating Ranger builds. You brag that you can 3 shot stuff. You brag that you can run a damage build that has “Half zerk is not a "sustain build" but yes it does have the ability to survive, as any build should.”... aka great use of barrier and healing capabilities that we all know about... You brag about all this stuff but now you have a huge problem with immobilized bc you were outplayed and lost... That’s your problem, not with Druid.

    Bragging? Only someone very insecure would consider that bragging .. I am so sorry to have offended your pride. No, fact of the matter is that most people I come across roaming in WvW are kind of on the noob side, and when I encounter a reasonably good player I either have a very satisfying 1v1 where I lose or win, doesn't matter to me, or I absolutely get my kitten handed to me. Don't really care, had fun. But I win most of my matchups, because most of the players I fight are just average players.

    I don't generally have issues fighting most ranger builds. That has remained true, I don't see the issue here. I just struggle with the immob builds because they're ridiculous.

    I can 3-shot certain builds with a little bit of luck, if they're caught off guard or on cooldowns, and running glassy. MANY other builds in the game are better than my build for ganking, LOL.

    I was outplayed by who exactly? Who has outplayed me on druid that you are referencing? I don't really care, I just want to know who it was because you KEEP going on and on and on and on about this druid who """outplayed""" me with excessive immobilizes. I'd love to see them do it on a build that is half as cheesy! And either way, do you think I care about one player beating me? Do you really think I have as much of an ego in this game as you do, that I would care? Keep clutching to your comments about me having barrier access while ranger has nearly the same utility-skill, rofl...

    Man, you really have it out for me, I don't understand ... are you envious, do you feel threatened or something?

    There are ways to deal with Immobilized. Druid has been in existence for 5 years. Most have shed learning curves from the last e-specs. None of that matters to you because all you care about is winning and cannot accept losing... That’s clear to read from you, and I’m not the only one who sees that...

    Sure I do, and good for you/them for "seeing" what I've been freely admitting this entire time. But have you asked me anything about this, by the way? Nah, cause then you wouldn't be able to just assume random nonsense / create strawman fallacies to kick down in order to prove some non-point :'D

    Don’t blame Druid, or Immobilized, just because the devs made Ele limited to 1 weapon or 1 set of weapons in combat. If you run a melee weapon then you are stuck to mostly melee attacks, so of course if you get immobilized it’s hard. But that’s not the design fault of Druid or Immobilized, that’s an Ele trade off for having double the amount of skills through attunements.

    Great, good for that, excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

    Stop blaming everyone else for your loss. And stop asking for nerfs just because you lost. And again, this game isn’t Duel Wars 2, it’s a team based game and you are complaining about 1v1 stuff in a mode primarily designed for Realm vs Realm combat.

    Great, we all know that, good for that. Excessive immob access is still an unbalanced gameplay mechanic.

    Edit- And trapper Druid is an absolute joke outside of 1v1. It doesn’t do jack squat for any team based play. It’s essentially a junk build with a niche use. Immobilized is a joke too in team based play, and there are far better uses of skills and traits outside of 1v1.

    Ty, the god of PvP, everyone.

    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points about my own competence (which no one came here to read about) because he was so incredibly offended by the fact that I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying. We have now spent our time discussing completely irrelevant things, like how good/bad I am at the game because you just couldn't handle my (valid) comment. Thank you, great contribution to the thread!

    Are you done crying? Please exit the thread if you just came here to troll.
    edit: rofl, do you know this guy has me blocked in-game already? On both accounts. That's actually hilarious. Awwww! I'm sorry :'D
    Pretty clear why he's giving me a hard time lmao, he's mad.

    solemn

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

  • kiwituatara.6053kiwituatara.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:
    Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

    If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

    I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

    I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

    I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

    And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

    I dunno about druids being meta, theres a reason people don't use druids in spvp. I think your build just gets countered by immob druids, probably good to change it up a bit. Its like if I run power melee soulbeast, I have very little chance against condi necros.

    I think if you have enough -incoming condition duration, you don't even need to use condi cleanse, you can just walk out of the roots cuz they tick 1s of immob every 1s? Antitoxin runes is -25%, some foods are -20%. Or just run diamond skin. Bring a focus to the fight for CCs. And you should really try focusing on pets, they die reallllly quickly, especially on druids since they have -20% stats as elite spec 'trade-offs"

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2020

    Please Delete

    Too many Karen's. Too much inconsistent moderation. Delete my forum account like I asked. TY

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.