Running antitoxin rune & still being unable to do anything vs Immob ranger/druid - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Running antitoxin rune & still being unable to do anything vs Immob ranger/druid

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  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • @God.2708 said:
    This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

    Well said! Agreed completely.

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:
    Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

    If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

    I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

    I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

    I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

    And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

    I dunno about druids being meta, theres a reason people don't use druids in spvp. I think your build just gets countered by immob druids, probably good to change it up a bit. Its like if I run power melee soulbeast, I have very little chance against condi necros.

    I think if you have enough -incoming condition duration, you don't even need to use condi cleanse, you can just walk out of the roots cuz they tick 1s of immob every 1s? Antitoxin runes is -25%, some foods are -20%. Or just run diamond skin. Bring a focus to the fight for CCs. And you should really try focusing on pets, they die reallllly quickly, especially on druids since they have -20% stats as elite spec 'trade-offs"

    Ya, good point but I don't want to be boxed into running all this anti-condi stuff when there are so many other options in the game. It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard. One of the strengths of gw2 is it's build diversity. I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent. I.e. antitoxin vs most power builds (aside from clearing cripple, chill etc).. offers a half-advantage assuming your build is condi-heavy for damage (my air build isn't), and no advantage whatsoever if you're straight power.

    I think you know this but I'm typing it for discussion's sake. My point in tl;dr: if I need to run antitoxin to have a fair chance vs it, it's OP.> @Swagger.1459 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 Im just pointing out the facts. You should learn from losses and adjust, not ask the game to change for your 1v1 win rate in wvw.

    Well we've found something to agree on.

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    Thank you, Buddha.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points about my own competence (which no one came here to read about) because he was so incredibly offended by the fact that I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying. We have now spent our time discussing completely irrelevant things, like how good/bad I am at the game because you just couldn't handle my (valid) comment. Thank you, great contribution to the thread!

    Are you done crying? Please exit the thread if you just came here to troll.
    edit: rofl, do you know this guy has me blocked in-game already? On both accounts. That's actually hilarious. Awwww! I'm sorry :'D
    Pretty clear why he's giving me a hard time lmao, he's mad.

    That's a big yikes from me.

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect - Condi Ele Pioneer

  • kiwituatara.6053kiwituatara.6053 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @God.2708 said:
    This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

    Well said! Agreed completely.

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:
    Druids are very susceptible to CCs, especially the ones running traps, chain CC them and its over.

    If they're running survival skills with more stun breaks, that means they have less CCs to proc root. Most pets die easily, just kill them and they won't have a source of CC to proc seeds except for shortbow5.

    I think immob druids are only OP when its a condi build. Power druid dmg is meh and the healing is meh. But then again, most condi builds of any class is cheese.

    I think the reason I find it so absurd is because I'm running a full melee build with a lot of mobility. Because I have so much mobility, it's basically not so different from a ranged build, so I don't generally struggle with rangers - or, I didn't, before patch. Since I can't move, I can't CC, attack their pet etc.. One of my cleanses is a weapon swap which on ele I am doing constantly, so there is no way to assure that I'll have the cleanse at the appropriate time, another is a dodge, which I cannot do while rooted/immobed, another is locked behind a 4-8 second attunement cooldown, and the other requires a critical hit which I cannot do without any ranged attacks and probably wouldn't suffice anyway because chances are it ends up transferring cripple/bleed instead.

    I could run fire weaver, which has much easier cleanse uptime -- and I have done this before -- and every time he would immob me to bait a cleanse, I'd be immobed again and before someone says "just dodge after cleansing" yes I've tried that, the next immob is only a few seconds away don't worry, you're GOING to be immobed again, that's the problem with this build. Too many GD immobs.

    And anyway, is anyone here seriously challenging the idea that being immobed/CC constantly while fighting off condi simultaneously is an unfun and unrewarding meta? Seriously, do people like this? Are we happy with this?

    I dunno about druids being meta, theres a reason people don't use druids in spvp. I think your build just gets countered by immob druids, probably good to change it up a bit. Its like if I run power melee soulbeast, I have very little chance against condi necros.

    I think if you have enough -incoming condition duration, you don't even need to use condi cleanse, you can just walk out of the roots cuz they tick 1s of immob every 1s? Antitoxin runes is -25%, some foods are -20%. Or just run diamond skin. Bring a focus to the fight for CCs. And you should really try focusing on pets, they die reallllly quickly, especially on druids since they have -20% stats as elite spec 'trade-offs"

    Ya, good point but I don't want to be boxed into running all this anti-condi stuff when there are so many other options in the game. It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard. One of the strengths of gw2 is it's build diversity. I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent. I.e. antitoxin vs most power builds (aside from clearing cripple, chill etc).. offers a half-advantage assuming your build is condi-heavy for damage (my air build isn't), and no advantage whatsoever if you're straight power.

    I think you know this but I'm typing it for discussion's sake. My point in tl;dr: if I need to run antitoxin to have a fair chance vs it, it's OP.> @Swagger.1459 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 Im just pointing out the facts. You should learn from losses and adjust, not ask the game to change for your 1v1 win rate in wvw.

    Well we've found something to agree on.

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    Thank you, Buddha.

    I think you should really try the tactics we've pointed out first.

    "I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent" thats pretty much everyone situation. Theres so much build diversity, if you want to win fights you gotta switch build sometimes and its so easy now with build templates. Heck, every time I can't beat a certain build I ask other players for tips, I ended up with 8 rangers with multiple templates for different situations. There's so many build options but you're so deadset on running the same build that frustrates you cuz theres one niche build out there that counters you.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    "...I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying..."

    "...Are you done crying?..."

    I like the part where you assume they must be average/below-average because you lost. Maybe its you that is average and you've only been beating below average for 7/10 fights. Ever heard of Dunning-Kruger?

    Mate, you're the one crying here. Every build has a hard counter of some description and you found yours. You're fighting a ranged build who specialises in soft CC and kiting at the expense of damage and you're using a bursty melee build which relies on high mobility, what do you expect?

    Just gonna quote myself because I'm getting tired of repeating myself to ppl just coming to this thread & not reading anything.

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard.

    I just don't think a build that is near-impossible to fight, on a build that can fight almost anything, is balanced. Simping this hard for druid when you know immob is unbalanced seems silly. Yes I've heard of dunning-kruger, why are we discussing psychology, have you heard of Carl Jung? Do some soul searching, why are you obsessing over how good/bad I am at the game. I'm not interested in whether or not my abilities in a video game offend you, someone who cites dunning-kruger because of a balance disagreement in a video game is probably very sensitive to negative emotion regardless. I've never needed to win all the time, it's just annoying to lose to such a BS no-skill build that is nearly impossible to counter. Who is really opposing that statement?

    @kiwituatara.6053 said:
    I think you should really try the tactics we've pointed out first.

    "I'd like to try not to sacrifice one of my favourite things about this game just so that I can avoid the nuisance of a couple niche builds, and get clobbered by meta builds ran by anyone decent" thats pretty much everyone situation. Theres so much build diversity, if you want to win fights you gotta switch build sometimes and its so easy now with build templates. Heck, every time I can't beat a certain build I ask other players for tips, I ended up with 8 rangers with multiple templates for different situations. There's so many build options but you're so deadset on running the same build that frustrates you cuz theres one niche build out there that counters you.

    My issue is that I am switching builds, putting on antitoxin rune/cleansing/generosity and still barely able to fight at all.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

    Ty, this is actually the clip I was talking about earlier, from his perspective.
    I go out of combat to switch to fire weaver with antitoxin rune, a build with some of the most cleanse uptime in the entire game, and as you can see I'm basically autoattacked to death. I'm not insulting the player, it's just - as he said himself - an op build.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

    Ty, this is actually the clip I was talking about earlier, from his perspective.
    I go out of combat to switch to fire weaver with antitoxin rune, a build with some of the most cleanse uptime in the entire game, and as you can see I'm basically autoattacked to death. I'm not insulting the player, it's just - as he said himself - an op build.

    1- Antitoxin runes are quite bad on ele I'd say and that's why I don't use them, I rely on Diamond skin alone to deal with condi builds, fire weaver DS no even cleansing sigil required.

    2-Fire weaver s/f is quite bad against above average ranged players , you simply have bad MU against anything that can range pressure and kite well you, still not an issue with the build

    3-You should have swapped to DPS tempest scepter/X ( I like warhorn) or scepter/focus weaver , both are perfect to deal with ranged enemies who lack oppressive melee presence like mesmers, those shortbow rangers or even deadeyes

    4- It's a druid, kill the pets first if you find the player being above average..it's far easier than against all other ranger build, pressure the pet soon after swap

    5-With the pet kd out of the picture, you just need to avoid concussion shot to negate AS, reason why I suggest DPS tempest , while not optimal against most common enemies like thieves, it's perfect in this scenario, plenty of reflects

    6-They have a single stunbreak in that build and no access to stab ( if not running strength of the pack), they're easy to shut down

    Really why people complain about roaming encounters on the forum? People can come up with all sorts of builds out there, that's the best part about WvW, it's pointless and counterproductive to come and complain when you lose a single fight while winning many others

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @God.2708 said:
    This strikes me as the sort of situation taking earth line was born for. Diamond skin basically makes you immortal vs condi druids and earthen blessing can get tossed on to add insult to injury. The banality and terrible synergy with other lines earth has though makes this really unappealing, and difficult to fit into most builds, even as a temporary swap.

    Strongly disagree

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    There are some choices we have to deal with losses...

    1- Post on the forums to ask the community for advice and tips.

    Or

    2- Complain that something is overpowered just because you lost to it, while also highlighting the facts that you win most of the time, can 3 shot most builds, can run a dps build that also a ton of defenses...

    Choosing number 1 is a better option.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    Here is a story for ya... There is a really good player in the game that struggled fighting Mesmer builds. So that person asked friends to load up their Mesmer builds so they could practice 1v1s. Over time that player got better at fighting Mesmers.

    Moral of the story is maybe next time chat with the person you lost to and practice, instead of all the other stuff.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    3-You should have swapped to DPS tempest scepter/X ( I like warhorn) or scepter/focus weaver , both are perfect to deal with ranged enemies who lack oppressive melee presence like mesmers, those shortbow rangers or even deadeyes

    4- It's a druid, kill the pets first if you find the player being above average..it's far easier than against all other ranger build, pressure the pet soon after swap

    Actual yikes. Not sure what's worst, roaming on tempest or using scepter with it. Also OP said that immobs are too strong, which has nothing to do with pets.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    3-You should have swapped to DPS tempest scepter/X ( I like warhorn) or scepter/focus weaver , both are perfect to deal with ranged enemies who lack oppressive melee presence like mesmers, those shortbow rangers or even deadeyes

    4- It's a druid, kill the pets first if you find the player being above average..it's far easier than against all other ranger build, pressure the pet soon after swap

    Actual yikes. Not sure what's worst, roaming on tempest or using scepter with it. Also OP said that immobs are too strong, which has nothing to do with pets.

    It got EVERYTHING to do with pets, the ranger in his video was using 2 canine which both have access to kd soon after swap and the drake hound got immobilize F2 - furthermore with druid, pets get a -20% stats deficiency and this case getting rid of those 2 pets would have meant the difference between defeat or victory.
    Finally I have specified that in some instances scepter is recommended because the enemy lacks strong melee presence to do enough dmg and roaming on tempest is anything but Yikes..but to each his own I guess

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    Ancient Seeds is annoying, but the way the OP descibes it, sounds like a big L2P issue.

    Counters:

    • stability
    • cleanse and dodge
    • teleport
    • destroy the root with a high damage melee skill

    The frequent reapplication is possible, because the trait has plenty of ways to deal with it. It's a cheese trait because it has its best effect on trailblazer gear which grants incredible tankyness and does even improve the immob duration. But it's far from being one of the worst examples of anets balancing fails.

    The high damage possible in wvw compared to pvp, which makes it easier to destroy the root, is the reason the cooldown is 10s in wvw and 20s in pvp.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2020

    The biggest problem is the fight takes 5 minutes with the ability to arbitrarily disengage rather than anything in particular beyond overpowered.

    So next time people come wondering why people won't 1v1 them, well, that's why. So props to the druid for sticking around.

  • Mrs Q.4081Mrs Q.4081 Member ✭✭

    Lol, so druid is finally good at something after they nerfed the kitten out of lb, power & heals, and y’all QQ about it.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Exactly.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Let's all thank Swagger.1459 for making me spend the last couple replies defending moot points

    Why? He's not in control of your fingers on a keyboard unless you got some weird science experiment going on there.

    There isn't actually much here to talk about. Without a video, picture, or even a build link for anything related to the incident I can't find much enthusiasm to care too.

    D:

    Really tho man?
    You've not encountered this build once?
    Lol

    edit: I actually did have a good video of it, but I delete clips I don't use periodically to save disk space and when I saw the agreement of most people in /map, /team, /guild I figured it was well known enough for it not to be necessary.

    That only covers the video clip. If a picture or a link to a build is a disk space issue too then I can't help you there.

    D:

    This is the fight in question we’ve been discussing in another thread...

    @holiboy.4637 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    There is not much you can do vs this build. Stunbreak access, stability access, antitoxin rune, having twice as many cleanses compared to most other roaming builds, evade uptime. You will be immobilized permanently. All you can do is waste cooldowns if you're melee.

    I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.
    This guy pretty much just autoattacked and there was absolutely nothing I could do against him pressing one button.

    How is this ok to have in a video game. I have never seen anything more absurdly unbalanced.

    -solemn

    Sup im the ranger in question. yea rofl the build has a lot of immob eh. Im just playing this game for some causal fun so chill yea? You said you wanted to make a video about this via mail to me. Let me help you out i caught the whole thing on shadowplay.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=xIZBBQK95vY

    Side note yea this build is op, i made a lot of mistakes and i can get away with it lol. But why the siege throwing bm tho?

    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Exactly.

    Neither seemed good at chasing either...as both relied on the other opponent to stick around and fall into traps (literally) multiple times. Better off moving on if you see another whittle-down style build.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Mikhael.2391Mikhael.2391 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    I am running cleanse sigil, sigil of generosity, antitoxin rune, and even with food & water signet creating a total of -65% incoming condi duration, also with weapon condi cleanses, I am unable to do anything beyond sit and die to immob rangers. They bind me, I attack and attack and attack and even though I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds it takes far too long just to kill the roots, and then I'm immobed again, cleanse it, immobed again immediately, and then the roots are back again already and I proceed to die stupidly to someone playing a build that is 0% risk 100% reward.

    I actually can't think of anything worse in the game that I've ever encountered, at any point in time. I would rather fight 3 condi mirages than 1 immob ranger. I would rather fight perma-stealth no-balls rifle deadeye. At least I can PLAY the game vs those builds.

    Isnt there a DE trait that is as equally dumb and does pretty much the same without roots but with stealth to compensate the lameliness?

  • Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    "...I actually win most of my matchups and that losing to immob druid played by average/below-average players is kind of annoying..."

    "...Are you done crying?..."

    I like the part where you assume they must be average/below-average because you lost. Maybe its you that is average and you've only been beating below average for 7/10 fights. Ever heard of Dunning-Kruger?

    Mate, you're the one crying here. Every build has a hard counter of some description and you found yours. You're fighting a ranged build who specialises in soft CC and kiting at the expense of damage and you're using a bursty melee build which relies on high mobility, what do you expect?

    Just gonna quote myself because I'm getting tired of repeating myself to ppl just coming to this thread & not reading anything.

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    It's not that I want to be able to hard-counter every single build in the game, it's that I don't want one build to be able to stomp me down soo easily and with such little effort when I am over here playing the keyboard.

    I just don't think a build that is near-impossible to fight, on a build that can fight almost anything, is balanced. Simping this hard for druid when you know immob is unbalanced seems silly. Yes I've heard of dunning-kruger, why are we discussing psychology, have you heard of Carl Jung? Do some soul searching, why are you obsessing over how good/bad I am at the game. I'm not interested in whether or not my abilities in a video game offend you, someone who cites dunning-kruger because of a balance disagreement in a video game is probably very sensitive to negative emotion regardless. I've never needed to win all the time, it's just annoying to lose to such a BS no-skill build that is nearly impossible to counter. Who is really opposing that statement?

    You didn't need to repeat yourself, you needed to read what I wrote. Immob Druid is the HARD COUNTER to your build. Simple. It's ranged with lots of soft CC and kiting and you are melee that relies on mobility. There are some match ups that you just cannot win no matter what (skill being equal) and this is one of them, hence HARD COUNTER.

    I'm citing Dunning-Kruger because of obvious reasons.

    Edit: I just watched the video. How can you possibly be complaining about that? You either ran into or shadowstepped onto Every. Single. Trap. Not to mention, there's not even that much immob going on at all in that long duel.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    you were also outplayed over the course of 3 minutes and would have killed the Ranger had it not been for being immobilized... And the real problem here is that you are unwilling to change or ask for advice. It’s not like there aren’t counters to it, you just refuse to accept and learn from the loss.

    Tell me how not being able to do anything is being outplayed.

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    You didn't need to repeat yourself, you needed to read what I wrote. Immob Druid is the HARD COUNTER to your build. Simple. It's ranged with lots of soft CC and kiting and you are melee that relies on mobility. There are some match ups that you just cannot win no matter what (skill being equal) and this is one of them, hence HARD COUNTER.

    I'm citing Dunning-Kruger because of obvious reasons.

    Edit: I just watched the video. How can you possibly be complaining about that? You either ran into or shadowstepped onto Every. Single. Trap. Not to mention, there's not even that much immob going on at all in that long duel.

    Oh yeah cause when I'm using mobility/evasive skills/you know, playing the game, I try to keep track of where invisible kitten on the ground is. Like any normal person. Lol.
    You're citing dunning-kruger because you'd rather be grandiloquent and condescending than acknowledge when a build is too powerful.

    You keep citing how it's a hard counter to my build without acknowledging that the REASON why it is a hard counter is because IT IS OVERPOWERED.
    Lol

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.
    I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

    I don't even like running the build I was using in that video most of the time these days, sword/dagger is too slow, I'm much happier in fresh air d/d but that has even less condi cleanse.

    If none of the mainstream ele builds can fight immob druid fairly, it's not a hard counter, it's OP. A hard counter can be hard-countered if you're good at the game. An OP build cannot.

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Ancient Seeds is annoying, but the way the OP descibes it, sounds like a big L2P issue.

    Counters:

    • stability
    • cleanse and dodge
    • teleport
    • destroy the root with a high damage melee skill

    The frequent reapplication is possible, because the trait has plenty of ways to deal with it. It's a cheese trait because it has its best effect on trailblazer gear which grants incredible tankyness and does even improve the immob duration. But it's far from being one of the worst examples of anets balancing fails.

    The high damage possible in wvw compared to pvp, which makes it easier to destroy the root, is the reason the cooldown is 10s in wvw and 20s in pvp.

    -I have stability uptime
    -I have cleanses and dodges
    -I have shadowsteps
    -I have enough melee dps to destroy the roots

    I utilize all of these factors properly when fighting immob druid. It's just absurdly overpowered, end of story.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    Here is a story for ya... There is a really good player in the game that struggled fighting Mesmer builds. So that person asked friends to load up their Mesmer builds so they could practice 1v1s. Over time that player got better at fighting Mesmers.

    Moral of the story is maybe next time chat with the person you lost to and practice, instead of all the other stuff.

    I've actually done exactly that and found mesmers to be much easier ever since. However, back when condi mirage WAS OVERPOWERED, knowing how they did it wasn't as helpful. Because they were overpowered.

    See how this works?

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    There are some choices we have to deal with losses...

    1- Post on the forums to ask the community for advice and tips.

    Or

    2- Complain that something is overpowered just because you lost to it, while also highlighting the facts that you win most of the time, can 3 shot most builds, can run a dps build that also a ton of defenses...

    Choosing number 1 is a better option.

    Man, are you a journalist because you sure love to cherry-pick/manipulate information that makes your bias seem correct instead of discuss relevant issues.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.
    I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

    BRUH

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    “I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

    “I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

    “sustain very well and 1vX”

    “Shoutout to Cellofrag”

    “Elementalist is broken”

    Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

  • @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.
    I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

    BRUH

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    @SoulSlavocracy.4902

    “I win 7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating. I do not have issues fighting rangers, generally speaking.”

    “I'm running half-zerk with DPS traits and can easily 3-shot most builds”

    “sustain very well and 1vX”

    “Shoutout to Cellofrag”

    “Elementalist is broken”

    Weaver is way more... “absurdly overpowered, end of story.” than Trapper Druid. So you let me know when a Trapper Druid can “1vX” and win “7/10, sometimes 8/10 matchups 1v1, not even exaggerating.” better than your, according to “Cellofrag”, broken Weaver... But you already knew all that because according to you... “ Weaver still OP”.

    The point is that the immob druid barely needs to try ... and if I try my very hardest/do literally everything I can, I barely have a chance.
    Which one sounds more overpowered? The one that takes skill or the one that doesn't but wins anyway?

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

    Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos. You could also ask Cellofrag to duel you a bunch and show us how it goes.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

    Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos.

    This is the core problem in trying to have a dialogue with you. You do not understand. You think "weaver, in the right hands, is very good, therefore it's OP. Druid, in the wrong hands, is OP, therefore it's very good".

    Your logic is backwards and you have now created a strawman to knock down and proclaim "ah! See! He won't do it because weaver is more OP", which isn't the case.

    For someone who talks so much about skill level, you sure are unwilling to acknowledge that it plays a role in whether or not a build is balanced. Being able to faceroll keys and immob for days is unbalanced. Pressing every skill in the right order at the right time while analyzing what the opponent is doing and using movement/attunement changes accordingly, and just generally keeping track of a lot of things at once, is balanced because not everyone can do that.

    Many others can, but judging by the way you're forming your arguments, I'd love to see this challenge reversed. Why don't you make your own weaver video and win 7/10 duels. Druid cannot do what you asked me to do with it, but weaver certainly can. Let's see how you fare.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Maybe you could make your own sb/s-t trapper druid and show us better results in wvw and spvp than your weaver? I’m sure many of us would be excited to see videos of you 1vXing and winning 7-8/10 duels.

    Edit- Also, make sure to use the same slot skills as the player you fought and be sure to not edit any videos.

    This is the core problem in trying to have a dialogue with you. You do not understand. You think "weaver, in the right hands, is very good, therefore it's OP. Druid, in the wrong hands, is OP, therefore it's very good".

    Your logic is backwards and you have now created a strawman to knock down and proclaim "ah! See! He won't do it because weaver is more OP", which isn't the case.

    For someone who talks so much about skill level, you sure are unwilling to acknowledge that it plays a role in whether or not a build is balanced. Being able to faceroll keys and immob for days is unbalanced. Pressing every skill in the right order at the right time while analyzing what the opponent is doing and using movement/attunement changes accordingly, and just generally keeping track of a lot of things at once, is balanced because not everyone can do that.

    Many others can, but judging by the way you're forming your arguments, I'd love to see this challenge reversed. Why don't you make your own weaver video and win 7/10 duels. Druid cannot do what you asked me to do with it, but weaver certainly can. Let's see how you fare.

    You were outplayed then. And if you think trapper Druid is as OP as weaver, as you well know, show us your unedited videos. And if you aren’t that good on trapper Druid then it should be easy to see just how much immobilized carries you in 1vX, duels and against players like Cell.

  • Dahir.4158Dahir.4158 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    I'm not seeing what is particularly OP in that video. It takes so long for the ranger to finally kill the weaver. Everyone goes through their cooldowns multiple times over. For the majority of the fight the weaver was above 75% health too. /shrug

    Right. Exactly my point. He's not difficult to beat. He's just playing an annoyingly OP build. I would've won easily if not for immobs lol.
    I'm not even in this little debate for the ego, I don't care if he would've outplayed me regardless because some players can, it's just pretty clear that he won because of a gimmicky build that is overpowered.

    BRUH

    Hahahaha

    Broski Supreme - Borsk Carry Effect - Condi Ele Pioneer

  • Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

  • SoulSlavocracy.4902SoulSlavocracy.4902 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    There's plenty of builds that don't counter immob druid too well.

    Imo, more than plenty, and too many. Hence this thread ..

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    This guy is a pvp God, y'all not getting it.
    Nobody should be beating him /thread

    I don't understand why a few of you seem to be so obsessed over me. I never said or even slightly implied this. It's like pointing out that 2+2=4 and having people say "LOOK AT THIS GUY, HE'S A MATH GENIUS" ... no, I'm just stating facts ... get over yourself lol, nobody cares if you think I'm bad/good. This thread is not about ME. Please, stop the obsession, it's flattering but pointless and wasteful.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    You were outplayed then. And if you think trapper Druid is as OP as weaver, as you well know, show us your unedited videos. And if you aren’t that good on trapper Druid then it should be easy to see just how much immobilized carries you in 1vX, duels and against players like Cell.

    Just defaults to "you were outplayed" and ignores everything I said.
    I'll reply when you respond to my challenge, since your challenge is silly and mine isn't.

    Seriously you guys are obsessed about videos. I don't record every time I fight a druid :'D go out into wvw and see for yourself, someone already posted a video showcasing how silly and unbalanced it is, I'm not wasting more time than I have to on this when the issue is willful ignorance.

    I've already stated in this thread that I would benefit from learning the ins/outs of the druid immob build and that it's true that I lose vs them partially because I'm unfamiliar. After I stated this, everyone proceeded to drone on like a broken record about videos and skill and such ... we are discussing balance ... please stay on the subject and my lord, stop talking about me. I do not care what you think of me, we are discussing whether or not druid immobilization is balanced.

    Yes? Explain why.
    No? Explain why.
    I do not care if you think I'm good/bad at the game. It's insane that I have to even say that, for ... the third time in this thread? Can you guys obsess over someone else? I do not care. Stay on the subject, say something relevant.

  • @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

    Oh hey actual contribution to the thread. Thanks for your genuine input. Refreshing to see a reply that isn't about me personally.

  • ThatOtherAlt.2984ThatOtherAlt.2984 Member ✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

    Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current form in WvW.
    /Thread

  • @ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:
    Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

    Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW.
    /Thread

    Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

  • @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:
    Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

    Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW.
    /Thread

    Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

    Did you honestly think I'd bother to read past the title? :lol:

  • @ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:

    @ThatOtherAlt.2984 said:
    Huh weird, I was pretty sure I replied to this post a while back, but I guess it either got removed or it was a different thread with the same name.

    Anyway, There's absolutely no reason to struggle vs condi in WvW as long as sigil of Cleansing exists in its current for in WvW.
    /Thread

    Lmao I can't make this kitten up if I tried

    Did you honestly think I'd bother to read past the title? :lol:

    Well at least you're honest and have a sense of humour .. not like many of the above posters lol

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    So this is what I understood from op and the vid:
    Weaver is very hard to play, as a result Weaver SHOULD win most if not all fights.
    Immob druid is a meme hence it should get nerfed to the ground
    If someone agrees with what we say, it's "insightful commenting". If someone disagrees, it's bad.

    Btw, weaver is as a meme as this druid, if not more. I personally see 10 weavers for each immob druid.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

    How is one long duration a balance solution when a single cleanse can hard counter it? Long durations are only truly viable in PvE against NPCs that never cleanse. Duration increase in WvW is for capitalizing on opponent's mistakes and only needs a little longer duration to do.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    Its super mega anoying but... besides that what else can they do...?

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @holiboy.4637
    Just look at what you've done.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Its super mega anoying but... besides that what else can they do...?

    Pair up with a teef.

  • Draeyon.4392Draeyon.4392 Member ✭✭

    Anyone got a build link so I can not play this "annoying" build?

  • ThatOtherAlt.2984ThatOtherAlt.2984 Member ✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    @Draeyon.4392 said:
    Anyone got a build link so I can not play this "annoying" build?

    The build is literally 3 years old... well technically 4.

    Google "Condi Druid HoT" watch a random YT vid... that's the build.

  • @Chaba.5410 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    Pulsing immobilize shouldn't be a thing, ever. Make it one long duration, not reapply after it's been cleansed.

    How is one long duration a balance solution when a single cleanse can hard counter it? Long durations are only truly viable in PvE against NPCs that never cleanse. Duration increase in WvW is for capitalizing on opponent's mistakes and only needs a little longer duration to do.

    It's one of the single most powerful condi in the game, it stops you dead in your tracks and prevents you from dodging and basically guarantees you die in a team fight because you're stuck. A single condi cleanse countering it is literally how all condi works that isn't from a marked AoE, and even then you can just move out of the AoE. Why should your busted condi be able to counter one of the things meant to counter it? If I cleanse it, it should be gone and not reapplied because I couldn't move in the first place. It's like thief being able to remove revealed from itself.

    Also, cover condi. Bury the immobilize that's at a longer duration and it's much less likely to be cleansed.