Condi Firebrand meta builds - why Ferocity? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Condi Firebrand meta builds - why Ferocity?

Tabin.5729Tabin.5729 Member ✭✭

I notice both discretize and snowcrows Condi Firebrand DPS builds run Grieving pieces. I'm confused as to why Ferocity helps on a condi build. Why not use sinister and get higher condi damage? Ferocity helps with crit damage but crit chance isn't even near 100% on a condi build. From watching stat sheets on DPS videos, crit chance is 69.61% with the appropriate DPS golemn buffs. Is there a trait that fills in the remaining 30% crit chance? Riteous instinct adds 25% but the build doesn't run it.
https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/condi-firebrand

Comments

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    Most of the so-called condition-builds are in fact hybrid-builds nowadays. Reason is rather simple: Almost every condition-damage skill in this game does direct damage. Focusing only on the conditions and ignoring the direct/power-damage results in a loss.

    If you focus 100 % on condition-damage only, your condition-stacks will definitely create higher damage per tick, but your overall damage output will be significantly lower than if you split some of your stats to empower direct-damage. This is a common problem when you create builds on your own and try to min-max stats for optimal results. You always have to look on the nature of the skills you use to determine what stats you use and how you weight the distribution.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's because of power coefficients on axe & tome of justice and the primarily single condition (burning) rather than multiple conditions. If you have multiple conditions you generally run viper's but for burning firebrand you can hit 100% burn duration with balthazar runes.
    Other burn builds such as warriors or weavers are more akin to 40% burn and 15-20% bleeding.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12, 2020

    There's also quite a few Power builds on other classes that run 100% Burning duration and no Condition Damage. This is like taking Quickness without any %damage boosts: Because Quickness itself is effectively +50% DPS and is superior, if a choice is to be made.

    This is the same reason that Condition Duration (or for Guardian, just Burning duration) is more important than Condition Damage in all situations except where condis will rapidly get cleansed (e.g competitive, and in a few encounters in PvE), because its a flat 100% DPS increase on enemies that can't cleanse, since the stacks just build up over time, even if their overall damage is lower.

    (This is explosive on Guardian due to their %burning trait and ample access to Vulnerability.)

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  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    From Snow Crows:

    "This build provides extremely high power burst, in addition to Condition Damage. This makes it an extremely versatile build that can be used on both condition and power oriented encounters."

    This can be noted through the very high power coefficients of some of their skills:

    Core Cleave/Bleeding Edge: 0.72
    Searing Slash: 2.4
    Symbol of Vengeance: 3.0
    Chapter 1: Searing Spell: 1.0
    Chapter 4: Scorched Aftermath: 3.2
    Sword of Justice: 2.88
    Symbol of Punishment: 4.2
    Zealot's Fire: 2.25

    This means that they get a bunch of damage from Ferocity which can outweigh the gains from the slight increase in Condi Damage from using Sinister.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Alyster.9470Alyster.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    Its because you already cap burning duration so there is no need for adding more viper pieces, addition of sinister and grieving are just min-maxing.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:
    From Snow Crows:

    "This build provides extremely high power burst, in addition to Condition Damage. This makes it an extremely versatile build that can be used on both condition and power oriented encounters."

    This can be noted through the very high power coefficients of some of their skills:

    Core Cleave/Bleeding Edge: 0.72
    Searing Slash: 2.4
    Symbol of Vengeance: 3.0
    Chapter 1: Searing Spell: 1.0
    Chapter 4: Scorched Aftermath: 3.2
    Sword of Justice: 2.88
    Symbol of Punishment: 4.2
    Zealot's Fire: 2.25

    This means that they get a bunch of damage from Ferocity which can outweigh the gains from the slight increase in Condi Damage from using Sinister.

    Not to derail, but this has been a troubling question for me on my burn DH I play in WvW.

    I'm currently running Viper stats on my armor, but was debating swapping them to Grieving. Looking at the stats, and with the consumables I use (+45 stats + Tuning Icicle), I ended up with more condition damage overall wearing Viper. But looking at your post, I'm wondering if my overall damage output might not be better by juicing up the physical damage end with higher ferocity. I'm running Balthazar runes, and my trinkets are a mix of Carrion + Cele.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:
    From Snow Crows:

    "This build provides extremely high power burst, in addition to Condition Damage. This makes it an extremely versatile build that can be used on both condition and power oriented encounters."

    This can be noted through the very high power coefficients of some of their skills:

    Core Cleave/Bleeding Edge: 0.72
    Searing Slash: 2.4
    Symbol of Vengeance: 3.0
    Chapter 1: Searing Spell: 1.0
    Chapter 4: Scorched Aftermath: 3.2
    Sword of Justice: 2.88
    Symbol of Punishment: 4.2
    Zealot's Fire: 2.25

    This means that they get a bunch of damage from Ferocity which can outweigh the gains from the slight increase in Condi Damage from using Sinister.

    Not to derail, but this has been a troubling question for me on my burn DH I play in WvW.

    I'm currently running Viper stats on my armor, but was debating swapping them to Grieving. Looking at the stats, and with the consumables I use (+45 stats + Tuning Icicle), I ended up with more condition damage overall wearing Viper. But looking at your post, I'm wondering if my overall damage output might not be better by juicing up the physical damage end with higher ferocity. I'm running Balthazar runes, and my trinkets are a mix of Carrion + Cele.

    You don't beef up power damage at the cost of condition damage. You beef up power damage at the cost of condition duration, which is easily capped for burning as guardian and as such requires far less stat investment.

    The gain over sinister is based on the higher total stats from 4 piece stats versus 3 piece stats, which results in a very minor decrease in condition damage compensated with the total gain in stats. Without that added benefit the exhange would likely bot be worth it.

    Instead of changing your armor stats you'd be far better off changing those carrion and cele trinkets.