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Few simple? question about fractals

I'll start by saying that i im not a new player in general, i dont have much experiance with fractals so far, but lately i actualy do them quite often (2-3 times a day, just to learn mechanics and different perspective) and i'm about 72 personal lvl so i will refer to T1-T3 fractals: So sorry if the question would be obvious but i honestly look for and answers and yes - i did check wiki
1) mai trin fight. So far the combat was rather simple - we need to break her 10 point resistance by Horiks blue fields, we clean mobs - no controversy here. Guy with purple bomb will get hit by electric bubble and we need Mai at that spot. But what should i do when i see regular bomb icon above me? So far every time i did it (so t1, t2) me and other players removed ourselfs so others would not get hit. But few days i go in PUGs game people divided into 2 options. One mentioned above and second: we stick to mai trin the whole fight if there are no mobs (so yeah, we accept that regular aoe dmg). Any comments on that? Is it tier related? or we dont move if we got support player in the team? Or maybe i did it wrong the whole time? Is it crucial for the party if i remove myself from the group for that attack?

2) In sirens reef fractal, in the part when we need to take 3 coins to the chest very often i see ppl interested in taking just first 2 coins, then they wait at the exit. While i get that 1 or 2 guys might get the attitiude ' i done my part' it makes me wonder - what are the expectations when i'm the only one who goes backfor the 3rd coin. As far as i understand the mechanic - i cant do it solo due to the mechanic - it will slow me down regardless if i throw the bag or run/ dodge with it. Is it soloable for engi (or other classes)? I'm asking cause in half of the games i play only one guy (most of the times - me) goes for the last coin, gets slowed down, at some point get run by mobs etc - i dont see any skipping part or other advantage with leaving that guy behind. Or maybe i'm just unlucky with teammates?

3) im not fun about the whole 'meta' idea i get that its important to know and check from time to time what are the 'best' way to play certain character. And so far i was using metabattle to do it. But for the last week or two weird thing happens. I pugs with guardians / necros / engis / rangers / revs all the time. Now and then i group up with a thief as well. But in the meta section i see elementalist (recomended so i understand that it's a strong and usefull build) that i don's see very often (to be precise not a single elementalist in the last few days). On the other hand mesmer with wells / quickness and alac that is ranked 'viable' is in my groups regularly. So is there a reason why i dont see those elementalist any more? It's safer them to group with friends, metabattle is outdated or again - im just unlucky and there is no conspiracy here?

thank you kindly for your comments

Comments

  • @ShinigamiPL.4086 said:
    I'll start by saying that i im not a new player in general, i dont have much experiance with fractals so far, but lately i actualy do them quite often (2-3 times a day, just to learn mechanics and different perspective) and i'm about 72 personal lvl so i will refer to T1-T3 fractals: So sorry if the question would be obvious but i honestly look for and answers and yes - i did check wiki
    1) mai trin fight. So far the combat was rather simple - we need to break her 10 point resistance by Horiks blue fields, we clean mobs - no controversy here. Guy with purple bomb will get hit by electric bubble and we need Mai at that spot. But what should i do when i see regular bomb icon above me? So far every time i did it (so t1, t2) me and other players removed ourselfs so others would not get hit. But few days i go in PUGs game people divided into 2 options. One mentioned above and second: we stick to mai trin the whole fight if there are no mobs (so yeah, we accept that regular aoe dmg). Any comments on that? Is it tier related? or we dont move if we got support player in the team? Or maybe i did it wrong the whole time? Is it crucial for the party if i remove myself from the group for that attack?

    2) In sirens reef fractal, in the part when we need to take 3 coins to the chest very often i see ppl interested in taking just first 2 coins, then they wait at the exit. While i get that 1 or 2 guys might get the attitiude ' i done my part' it makes me wonder - what are the expectations when i'm the only one who goes backfor the 3rd coin. As far as i understand the mechanic - i cant do it solo due to the mechanic - it will slow me down regardless if i throw the bag or run/ dodge with it. Is it soloable for engi (or other classes)? I'm asking cause in half of the games i play only one guy (most of the times - me) goes for the last coin, gets slowed down, at some point get run by mobs etc - i dont see any skipping part or other advantage with leaving that guy behind. Or maybe i'm just unlucky with teammates?

    3) im not fun about the whole 'meta' idea i get that its important to know and check from time to time what are the 'best' way to play certain character. And so far i was using metabattle to do it. But for the last week or two weird thing happens. I pugs with guardians / necros / engis / rangers / revs all the time. Now and then i group up with a thief as well. But in the meta section i see elementalist (recomended so i understand that it's a strong and usefull build) that i don's see very often (to be precise not a single elementalist in the last few days). On the other hand mesmer with wells / quickness and alac that is ranked 'viable' is in my groups regularly. So is there a reason why i dont see those elementalist any more? It's safer them to group with friends, metabattle is outdated or again - im just unlucky and there is no conspiracy here?

    thank you kindly for your comments

    1) Avoiding the damage from the bomb is a good thing.
    For the second option, it can depend on party and tiers yep. In lower tiers fractals this meca (and mecas in general) don't do much damage so ppl usually stack to burn the boss faster. In t4 it will depend on your group, some will also stack if the support/heal is enough (or if personal skill is high enough to avoid critical dmg), some move out of the group with the group. I advise to continue to move the bomb out, espacially in pug.

    2) "unlucky with teammates" It's really faster to launch it between 2 players.

    3) Ele is meta but it's also squishy so there is not a lot of player that use it. For the fractals builds you should look here : https://discretize.eu/builds (on metabattle some builds are good, some others are meh.). At the moment a lot of builds are great/ok in fractals, so don't worry if you don't have ele in party^^.

    Carcharoth Lucian/Mini Chibii
    Ruin of Surmia world
    PvE : [CdL] Les Chasseurs De Légendes
    WvW : [MIMs] Mobile Ingénieuse Et Marteau

  • Thank you for your input.
    From your experiance - Q1 - is it safe to assume that at least one support in the team = we stick to mai + dodge ?
    Q3: i don't mind ele in my team, i just wondered why there is none lately. Tbh i look for some fresh perspective as engi main and i was consider to play ele myself. But i got curious how come there are so few of them, probably community has some intel that i don't and it's safer to ask ;-)

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    1) Evade, reflect or simply walk out of the circle. It depends on group setup(?). If the healer can keep everyone alive and okay with it, its possible to just ignore it. But if its stressing the healer or running without one, its best to avoid taking any additonal damage. Comunicate with the team if unsure. Personally, I only pay attention to avoid the bombing pattern aoe, We Bleed Fire(x2), Afflicted with Mai and Veteran Grenadiers. Find the rest trivial.

    2) Best to work in pairs. I find splitting 3-4 players left taking the first coin and 2nd along the way. While 1-2 player(s) go for the coin on right works well though might need a player to assist at the 2nd last junction if solo.

    3) Probably won't see many ele(weavers etc) by pugging. Restrictive.

  • Hyrai.8720Hyrai.8720 Member ✭✭✭

    1) in my experience T4 groups dont really care how you deal with the bombs. Its always nice to have the player with the bomb step out for a second. If he doesnt, people should be aware and dodge or provide aegis etc.

    2) fractals are group content, so they should be played as such. waiting at the end because "i did my part" is wrong one so many levels i dont even know where to start. dont do that. and dont hesitate to tell your group that its not ok to do it.

    3) while being one of, if not THE best classes in terms of dps, ele is rather hard to play. also it doesnt provide a lot of utility. (it can provide utility, but will sacrifice a lot of dps for it)
    there are other classes (dragonhunter, soulbeast) that are a lot easier to play and provide more utility, all while coming very close in dps (i'd even say a bad dragonhunter does more dps than a bad ele)

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    Regarding Mai Trin, the two bombs that don't have the wavy field are reflectable. It only takes one player to get rid of them. Often this is a Guardian using wall or one of their several bubbles, sometimes its an Ele with Magnetic Aura, rarely a Druid.

    The reason for this is to ensure that players can save their blocks and heals for the phase where the bomb hits the ground and starts depleting her shield, because it'll deplete faster if she doesn't move, otherwise you risk it still having a few stacks by the time the bomb is fizzled out. So best to avoid the first two and then tank the third.

    As for Siren's Reef, the coins are soloable. You just need to keep throwing it and make sure you aren't running a glass build. But its optimal if every player has at least one ally supporting them to keep the enemies CC'ed and do an occasional toss of their own.

    Use Swiftness, (or better, Superspeed), and movement skills like leaps and teleports if you're struggling.

    Regarding Elementalist. It is the strongest but also the squishiest class in the game, and probably the hardest to play overall. IF you see an Ele show up in group content , they're probably very seasoned. usually they serve as a backup healer (or primary in Fractals, since its only 5man) but occasionally you'll get a DPS Ele (typically Weaver) which is super squishy and needs to be protected or they'll get stressed out easily. However, they can carry your group through DPS checks and more all on their own.

    I hope this helps.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    1.) dodge, reflect/destroy, heal through the regular bomb. move so aoe static patterns do not hit at the same time as bomb. If a renegade is present, they can take ventari for near permanent projectile destruction. FB/DH can take reflect wall, use shield 5, tome 3-3, etc

    2.) that might happen on lower difficulties. On T4 players should know that it takes at least 2 players per coin. Most often players will do the first 2 together, then some will run back to do the 3rd.

    3.) The meta is mostly for CMs and T4. Chrono is rather common in regular T4 groups, it has been replaced on CM groups by FB+Ren. Elementalist is meta in top tier groups due to its burst potential. It is very reliant on players skill AND group support. Meaning if you aren't running an optimal group setup and executing mechanics good enough, elementalist falls behind other classes that are more selfsufficient. In short, in most regular T4 groups elementalist might not be a good pick.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    @ShinigamiPL.4086 said:
    I'll start by saying that i im not a new player in general, i dont have much experiance with fractals so far, but lately i actualy do them quite often (2-3 times a day, just to learn mechanics and different perspective) and i'm about 72 personal lvl so i will refer to T1-T3 fractals: So sorry if the question would be obvious but i honestly look for and answers and yes - i did check wiki
    1) mai trin fight. So far the combat was rather simple - we need to break her 10 point resistance by Horiks blue fields, we clean mobs - no controversy here. Guy with purple bomb will get hit by electric bubble and we need Mai at that spot. But what should i do when i see regular bomb icon above me? So far every time i did it (so t1, t2) me and other players removed ourselfs so others would not get hit. But few days i go in PUGs game people divided into 2 options. One mentioned above and second: we stick to mai trin the whole fight if there are no mobs (so yeah, we accept that regular aoe dmg). Any comments on that? Is it tier related? or we dont move if we got support player in the team? Or maybe i did it wrong the whole time? Is it crucial for the party if i remove myself from the group for that attack?

    2) In sirens reef fractal, in the part when we need to take 3 coins to the chest very often i see ppl interested in taking just first 2 coins, then they wait at the exit. While i get that 1 or 2 guys might get the attitiude ' i done my part' it makes me wonder - what are the expectations when i'm the only one who goes backfor the 3rd coin. As far as i understand the mechanic - i cant do it solo due to the mechanic - it will slow me down regardless if i throw the bag or run/ dodge with it. Is it soloable for engi (or other classes)? I'm asking cause in half of the games i play only one guy (most of the times - me) goes for the last coin, gets slowed down, at some point get run by mobs etc - i dont see any skipping part or other advantage with leaving that guy behind. Or maybe i'm just unlucky with teammates?

    3) im not fun about the whole 'meta' idea i get that its important to know and check from time to time what are the 'best' way to play certain character. And so far i was using metabattle to do it. But for the last week or two weird thing happens. I pugs with guardians / necros / engis / rangers / revs all the time. Now and then i group up with a thief as well. But in the meta section i see elementalist (recomended so i understand that it's a strong and usefull build) that i don's see very often (to be precise not a single elementalist in the last few days). On the other hand mesmer with wells / quickness and alac that is ranked 'viable' is in my groups regularly. So is there a reason why i dont see those elementalist any more? It's safer them to group with friends, metabattle is outdated or again - im just unlucky and there is no conspiracy here?

    thank you kindly for your comments

    1) u should stun her when electric field appears so she dont teleport anywhere. On start of the fight, its the best to stun her immadietly when fight starts, and than 2nd breakbar appears right with electric field.
    2) its the best if 3 ppl go east, they can rotate 2 treasures between them, and 2 ppl west. If ppl are slacking just tell them to get gud and stop slacking.
    3) ele is meta in cms, as it has the highest single target burst (next to power soulbeast), but in t4s (or t3s/t2s etc) it lacks cleave. Also its much harder than other classes u mentioned and due to low hp pool and light armor most players will have problems with staying alive
    On my note, plz dont use metabattle as often those builds are not even critcapped, and generally it has many issues. https://discretize.eu/builds/ is much better for it.

    edit: sorry i didnt get ur first point. outside of electric field there are 2 types of aoe attacks. 1 cannon shot from horrick - its projectile and can be reflected - revenant ventari bubble just block it entirely. dont mistake it with other aoe attacks - mass canons. aoe looks the same, but those aoes appear in groups. they can be only sidestepped or dodged. bascily this fractal force you to sidestep and dodge a lot

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    I will just answer to 3rd question as others were answered very well. 1st lets separate ele to "weaver" and "tempest". The "meta" part you see is normally the power weaver build FOR CMs. Whoever says that weaver is a difficult class they have no idea about modern weaver, it is one of the easeier classes to play (not to confuse with condi weaver which is difficult to play and is not played in fractals anyway). If you have problems with low hp it has nothing to do with weaver but in the end you can take the "master's fortitude" trait and you will not be "less tanky" than other dps classes reaper excluded.
    Having said that you shouldn't play weaver in normal pugs if you are not doing CMs and the rest of your group is not meta. Weaver benefits much with the current CM meta comp of the healless FB+alacrene+bs+sb group very much because all we expect from weaver there is to do his rota, dps the single target boss and nothing else. The nature of weaver's burst and the dominance of that comp makes it that weaver just casts his conjures 1 time and the CM boss is already dead. If your group isn't oneshotting those bosses (which should be your case) weaver is not a better choice than any other dps. Hell it is arguably more safe and beneficial to play reaper in low kp groups than weaver when alacs don't boonstrip well and stab is a problem.
    To presume if you are not running a full meta comp and you are not talking about CMs weaver is not really a "meta" choice, playing other dpses won't be worse in most cases.
    Having said all that, in other non CM regular fractals we don't always get the firebrigade, so you will see anything there.. And from my experience playing power tempest and abusing that f3 is the way to go. You provide that lightning share and much needed aoes for regular fractals. There are some bosses where you can swap back to weaver though. People don't know about the dominance of power tempests in regular t4 groups because there are not many builds to copy paste from internet, because pros don't care much about the casual t4s to share builds I guess.. here is one good tempest build if you need though https://discretize.eu/builds/elementalist/power-tempest

    p.s. the pugs that ask for support mesmers are not cm groups mostly, and the person that pugs it should be a druid or smth. It is sometimes easier to find a single mesmer than alacrene and qfb. I still think that the firebrigade is the best option even while running with druid.

  • thank you all for the feedback. I guess i divide my fractal time between engi and reaper as safer and more forgiving options, at least until i get more familiar with mechanics. have a nice day every1