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Zaithan .

Entropo.1524Entropo.1524 Member ✭✭

dont guys think zaithan's fight should be reworked ( i dont know if its arena net's policy to rework older content to make it better) . i know the entire point of personal story is to bring the pact and destiny's edge together or at least how it felt . but after replaying personal story it the ending realy felt underwhelming . with zaithan just being shot down and not putting up a worthy fight . personaly i think moredremoth had the best build up and feel about it . borh mordy and zaithan have no character but mordy feels so intimidating i would love to see zaithan like that in the future if possible

Comments

  • I just played through it for the first time a few weeks ago. I agree. Actually there were some weird things about that last bit of story. Destiny's Edge (which is also underwhelming without being able to play through Dungeon stories) just chilling in the airship most of the time instead of fighting with you on deck to blast dragon minions or at least helping cover your back while manning the cannons. And yeah, killing Zaithan was easier than killing his minions as it was just using airship cannons to fire. Kinda a let down. If that was the real "end" of the game I would have really been disappointed.

    I doubt it will be reworked though unless ANet is planning on some giant "Remastered" overhaul of GW2 that they are keeping super secret. Happy to hear the other dragon battles are better (I haven't done them yet).

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    There are some images in Google of the body of Zaithan in the water, just write Zaithan underwater and enjoy about the possibilities lost.

    🌝

  • Kossage.9072Kossage.9072 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    While the Zhaitan fight definitely could have benefited from an extended and more mechanically complex/involving fight, there's a lore reason why the Battle of Arah turned in our favor and why Zhaitan was so "easily" defeated:

    1) We didn't just use any random cannons against Zhaitan but the special MEGA-LIT cannon.

    It was designed by Zojja using what appears to have been both Kudu's research on dragon energy (as the cannon was finalized after Kudu's demise in Crucible of Eternity and took a page from the Vigil Megalaser used against Tequatl) and Professor Gorr's vacuumagic polarizer tech. Based on the aforementioned info and the foreshadowing from the "Magic Sucks" story instance, the cannon removes magic from the dragon, poisons it, and then transfers it back:

    Professor Gorr: I'm developing a weapon based on my theory of draconic enchanto-consumption. Essentially, it removes the magic from a person or object, poisons it, and then transfers it back.
    Professor Gorr: Hypothetically, the Vacuumagic Polarizer will reverse the magical essence of Zhaitan's tangible will within the Risen, and therefore, destroy them.

    Essentially we turned Zhaitan's great strength, its Death magic, against it with this tech during the aerial battle. This also fits in well with the way we've also used other Elder Dragons' respective strengths against them in the battles to come (Plant and Mind against Mordremoth, and Crystal and arguably Fury against Kralkatorrik).

    2) Zhaitan was already weakened by the time we faced it in Arah.

    First, the entire Orr campaign (e.g. destroying Zhaitan's supply line and specialized champions such as the Eyes and the Mouths, purifying the Artesian Waters with Caladbolg) weakened Zhaitan little by little. This allowed the Pact the chance to face the Elder Dragon above its lair which otherwise would've been very difficult (given how Zhaitan had historically defeated a combined army of mursaat and Forgotten who were no slouches when it came to destructive magical inventions and spells).

    Second, the Seer path of Arah explorable reveals that the gods had (seemingly unknowingly) siphoned magic off of sleeping Zhaitan to sunder the original Bloodstone into five lesser Bloodstones to end the war for magic. I imagine that the magic taken from Zhaitan must've been significant enough to sunder the Bloodstone, thus making Zhaitan the anti-Mordremoth in power levels (while Scarlet empowered Mordremoth with a ley line breakfast in bed, Zhaitan's already leaking magic was further reduced by gods for their own project). Even after Zhaitan woke up and began feeding on the Artesian Waters while sending out minions to gather more artifacts to consume for power, it was quite a bit weakened by the entire ordeal. And then of course we had the Orr campaign detailed above to further reduce the dragon's strength.

    I hope we'll get to meet Zhaitan in the Mists someday assuming that slain Elder Dragons' souls enter some kind of an afterlife instead of being absorbed into the ley lines if there's no entity nearby to consume their essence. It would be fitting to meet the shadowy ghost of the Elder Dragon of Death and Shadow for a second and more insightful confrontation. If Zhaitan suffered from Torment in "life" and if that Torment has vanished (or lessened?) after the dragon died, we might even have a chance to have a dangerous and unpredictable conversation with the former Elder Dragon and seek its sage counsel despite the risks associated with such a meeting should the story go that route...perhaps similar to the confrontation with the manipulative god Myrkul in Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, or the encounter with the unnerving Koh the Face-Stealer in Avatar: The Last Airbender. I'd be interested in finding out what kind of a speaking voice Zhaitan had. :)

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    1) We didn't just use any random cannons against Zhaitan but the special MEGA-LIT cannon.

    1) We didn't use the MEGA-LIT cannon. Zojja did.

    2) She missed.

    3) We then used rando cannons to tickle him down after the tractor beams wrecked his wings.

    4) Why didn't Zojja wait for the tractor beams to hold him in place and THEN shoot the MEGA-LIT cannon and destroy him in one shot?

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    2) Zhaitan was already weakened by the time we faced it in Arah.

    True, half of the story leading up to the fight was about weakening Zhaitan. (Though I question how much removing the Eyes affects his combat presence rather than merely his ability to have knowledge on what is happening throughout his domain, providing "Power" due to being able to send forces to incercept any incoming armies... Though, rendered somewhat moot anyway by the nature of the Pact's strategy of "Send airships directly towards the Elder Dragon")

    However, even in a weakened state, as an Elder Dragon he should have put up more of a fight than the dragons we had to fight before reaching him. The ones that were churning out risen while we were using the cannons and took down the airship we were on despite being taken out themselves. Rather than each individual dragon being tougher and stronger than Zhaitan himself...

    Though, I suspect much of the qualms about his power is due to the fact that the "Fight" with him is literally, kill a few waves of Risen. Watch a couple of cutscenes. Stand on a cannon and hold 1 until he is dead.

    Compare this to the Retribution and the fight against Blightghast, the Plaguebringer. Where there's a massive dragon staring you down and you need to actually fight it (Also, all the NPC's are actually helping to fight Blightghast, unlike with Zhaitan where the NPC's are all just stood around doing nothing. Occasionally you also get Logan and Zojja following you and then they stand next to you and the plethora of unused cannons doing nothing). Even despite this particular fights lack of mechanics it feels far more epic than using the crummy cannons that you don't even need to aim.

    Like, honestly, even fighting Issomir felt more epic than Zhaitan and that's an encounter where you just stand there and auto attack because you're level 1...

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  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2020

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Kossage.9072 said:
    1) We didn't just use any random cannons against Zhaitan but the special MEGA-LIT cannon.

    1) We didn't use the MEGA-LIT cannon. Zojja did.

    2) She missed.

    3) We then used rando cannons to tickle him down after the tractor beams wrecked his wings.

    4) Why didn't Zojja wait for the tractor beams to hold him in place and THEN shoot the MEGA-LIT cannon and destroy him in one shot?

    True on points 1 and 2, but the other cannons weren't "rando cannons" either. They were also modified with Gorr's research. This is why they fire "gold glitter" and have a unique appearance compared to other pact cannons. Furthermore, you're both missing the point where Zhaitan is harpooned by the lower tier cannons that then did something that appeared like electrocuting Zhaitan, which caused him to lose one of his arms and crippled his wing, forcing him onto the tower so that we could bombard him with cannons that counteracted his magic.

    As for 4, well, the only reason why those harpoon guns could hit Zhaitan is because he was slowed down by Zojja cutting off two of his tails.

    Ultimately, the reason why Zhaitan couldn't put up much of a fight was ultimately, those harpoons which crippled him, preventing him from flying, which in turn could only be used because of the Mega-LIT cannon (in other words, we got lucky AF with the near-miss; though it would have been luckier if Zojja hit). That is, other than the obvious development reasons of not having enough time after swapping out the models there was another two phases of fighting planned for Zhaitan; - phase 1 was to defend Zojja while a bar charged; phase 2 (scrapped) was to have players launch the harpoons (you can see that cutting off Zhaitans' tail, and harpooning Zhaitan, were two separate cinematics); phase 3 was to kill three eyes and more minions after Zhaitan got crippled as the airship moves into position (an intermission, really); phase 4 was to bring Zhaitan down off of the tower with the cannons; phase 5 (scrapped) was to land on the ground after the collapsed tower pinned Zhaitan to the ground, and finish the Elder Dragon off.

    True, half of the story leading up to the fight was about weakening Zhaitan. (Though I question how much removing the Eyes affects his combat presence rather than merely his ability to have knowledge on what is happening throughout his domain, providing "Power" due to being able to send forces to incercept any incoming armies... Though, rendered somewhat moot anyway by the nature of the Pact's strategy of "Send airships directly towards the Elder Dragon")

    It wasn't just killing the Eyes. It was killing the Mouth, purifying the Artesian Waters (his main source of magic), and cutting off his access to the five temples.

    In HoT, Mordremoth consumed ley-line magic to recover, while in Season 4, Kralkatorrik did the same - by purifying the Artesian Waters ahead of time, the Pact prevented Zhaitan from doing that, though they didn't really realize it themselves. For the Pact's view at the time, that was more an attempt to fight back the corruption, allowing the Pact to have an easier time holding ground elsewhere in Orr while they launch their fleet against the Elder Dragons.

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