I'm Starting to Dislike Warrior

To some this will sound blasphemous but it's true. It's mostly coming down to how RELIANT we have become on our passives. I never really liked them but because I enjoyed the rest of the class I dealt with it.

While I've always played multiple classes I have been spending more time playing core Guardian with Radiance and Hammer and Holosmith. The balance of risk vs reward is way better and how I deal damage and sustain myself feels much more fair. However, even if I win facing a Spellbreaker the fight is rarely fun. You land a CC and we don't just automatically break the stun, we become basically immune to it for a healthy duration. If we get hit by a big burst of power damage you have to stop at 50% because the game activates it for you.

This wasn't as bad when it was out only defense besides GS 3 and Shield 5. With Full Counter however we now have a ton of defense. While you can play around this 1v1, in many cases it is almost impossible to avoid. The reason we're so good in outnumbered situations is because it only takes 1 person triggering it to punish all involved.

If I could change things I would do this:

Full Counter: Only damages the one who triggered it. 10 second CD. Revenge Counter only copies 3 condis.

Last Stand: Only one pulse of Balanced Stance. Reduce stance CD.

Defy Pain: Connecting with a burst gives you bonus health and toughness. Stacks just like BP and AH.

If you're bored with it personally, try going Strength/Discipline and ditching Defense. Might Makes Right is always fun imo.

@SWI.4127 said:If you're bored with it personally, try going Strength/Discipline and ditching Defense. Might Makes Right is always fun imo.

I play Strength, Discipline, Defense. Lots more fun, more damage and really good sustain. I'm usually top damage and healer.

What I don't like are the war tourists.
Those tools coming up on the war forums, copypasta a build, and no need to reason or think because forums/metabattle did all the thinking for you.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If we get hit by a big burst of power damage you have to stop at 50% because the game activates it for you.

The circuit breaker aspect of auto-defypain is actually the best part and the reason the trait is strong . It's what's preventing from us melting from random physical burst. condis still go thru that, which balances it in a way. The "circuit breaker" has also been hit by the defypain duration nerf.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:To some this will sound blasphemous but it's true. It's mostly coming down to how RELIANT we have become on our passives. I never really liked them but because I enjoyed the rest of the class I dealt with it.

While I've always played multiple classes I have been spending more time playing core Guardian with Radiance and Hammer and Holosmith. The balance of risk vs reward is way better and how I deal damage and sustain myself feels much more fair. However, even if I win facing a Spellbreaker the fight is rarely fun. You land a CC and we don't just automatically break the stun, we become basically immune to it for a healthy duration. If we get hit by a big burst of power damage you have to stop at 50% because the game activates it for you.

This wasn't as bad when it was out only defense besides GS 3 and Shield 5. With Full Counter however we now have a ton of defense. While you can play around this 1v1, in many cases it is almost impossible to avoid. The reason we're so good in outnumbered situations is because it only takes 1 person triggering it to punish all involved.

If I could change things I would do this:

Full Counter: Only damages the one who triggered it. 10 second CD. Revenge Counter only copies 3 condis.

Last Stand: Only one pulse of Balanced Stance. Reduce stance CD.

Defy Pain: Connecting with a burst gives you bonus health and toughness. Stacks just like BP and AH.

I was a warrior player a long time ago but it s too noobish class for me now,like you said all is passive:-you take a cc "passive balance stance proc"-you are bursted to 50% "passive defy pain proc"-you are low health,go full block "passive healing with signet and adrenal health"-you are outnumberd "just nike warrior run away"Full counter is just the cherry on the cake,i think core warrior is a problem,spell breaker just add to much to it.

Warrior can be in incredible fun class to play but all new gameplay they add are so lame:-zerker is just new f1 to use andspell breaker is just a new block,nothing more.

@Kaga.7629 said:What I don't like are the war tourists.

Those tools coming up on the war forums, copypasta a build, and no need to reason or think because forums/metabattle did all the thinking for you.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:If we get hit by a big burst of power damage you have to stop at 50% because the game activates it for you.

Most other classes don't have that level of auto sustain though. Engi does, but you aren't able to do anything while it's happening and most of the time it's only there to get you in a position to be saved by your team because if you have condis on you when it procs you're dead anyways. Endure Pain is fine because you activate it yourself.

When I play Medi Guard I may have decent sustain but most of it is all active. Sure you get a single Aegis now and then but like that matters.

So you wanted to balance SB, But destroyed Core Warrior in the process !!Good job.

I'm pretty sure you're just unhappy warrior is mainstream now2 months later when warrior gets nerfed you'll post some moderately decent B tier build and talk about how much fun you're having with it.

@Flarre.4850 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:To some this will sound blasphemous but it's true. It's mostly coming down to how RELIANT we have become on our passives. I never really liked them but because I enjoyed the rest of the class I dealt with it.

While I've always played multiple classes I have been spending more time playing core Guardian with Radiance and Hammer and Holosmith. The balance of risk vs reward is way better and how I deal damage and sustain myself feels much more fair. However, even if I win facing a Spellbreaker the fight is rarely fun. You land a CC and we don't just automatically break the stun, we become basically immune to it for a healthy duration. If we get hit by a big burst of power damage you have to stop at 50% because the game activates it for you.

This wasn't as bad when it was out only defense besides GS 3 and Shield 5. With Full Counter however we now have a ton of defense. While you can play around this 1v1, in many cases it is almost impossible to avoid. The reason we're so good in outnumbered situations is because it only takes 1 person triggering it to punish all involved.

If I could change things I would do this:

Full Counter: Only damages the one who triggered it. 10 second CD. Revenge Counter only copies 3 condis.

Last Stand: Only one pulse of Balanced Stance. Reduce stance CD.

Defy Pain: Connecting with a burst gives you bonus health and toughness. Stacks just like BP and AH.

This is different than berserker or core in what way ? balanced stance always there,defy pain always there,block always there,heal sig adren hp always there but suddenly this is becoming an issue again ? And whats wrong when ppl being outnumbered and able to run away ? They build for that,so it should be able to do just so.

Too OP im not exactly enjoying warri either,not sure what it is i might just be burned out from the game but every time i try to move away from the "meta builds" it just end up going horrendous,losing discipline or def is still a big no no but we have people complain about these invulns yet not realizing we need them so badly because were not much worth without them,except vs the ultra baddies.Wish they'd revert bursting back to lvl 3on berserk so i can have some fun with that again perhaps.Sb feels a bit counter spammy and although i had some great fights with it,i notice myself complaining alot about this current meta wether i win or lose,just not much makes sense to me anymore.

Passive defenses have been the name of the game for years now. An issue not unique to the warriors, though they are amongst the main offenders.Full Counter basically became the "warrior steal". They noticed a lot of stuff the core warrior was lacking in PvP and decided to throw all of that onto a single class ability for some reason just like they did with the old thief builds. The entire fight is decided by how good you are at avoiding or simply predicting it. This turns the Full Counter from an active defensive ability we have been asking for into something that is almost like a bunch of passive thrown together.

We have been seeing different ideas on how to balance the spellbreaker properly, but mostly from the personal point of view of the individual players. Those running conditions hate the resistance uptime, those roaming in groups hate the Full Counter and it's ability to hit multiple targets while random people trigger it, those using blocks and fields or symbols hate how the spellbreaker can simply walk into those to interrupt them though blocks. People who got used to relying on boons mostly hate the boon rip obviously. You see different people asking for different harsh nerfs. SPvP or WvW related, it doesn't matter. I just hope they listen to everyone but don't do all of these harsh nerfs at once. Something that has happened before.

@"BurrTheKing.8571" I run this, try it out, it's fun. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4YnMdAldgdhAu6CcigFiAT5LM9mC4/4k8T2IAEB6ZA-jpxHABKVG47HAAAHEAlPCADcBAGf/BAThough shield is probably more effective than offhand dagger.

@Arddyn.7683 said:@"BurrTheKing.8571" I run this, try it out, it's fun. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4YnMdAldgdhAu6CcigFiAT5LM9mC4/4k8T2IAEB6ZA-jpxHABKVG47HAAAHEAlPCADcBAGf/BAThough shield is probably more effective than offhand dagger.

Shield may be more effective but doggonit offhand dagger is more fun comboing it with dagger 2 -> 3 -> 4.

@Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

@Arddyn.7683 said:@"BurrTheKing.8571" I run this, try it out, it's fun.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4YnMdAldgdhAu6CcigFiAT5LM9mC4/4k8T2IAEB6ZA-jpxHABKVG47HAAAHEAlPCADcBAGf/BA

Though shield is probably more effective than offhand dagger.

Amen brotha.

@Arddyn.7683 said:@"BurrTheKing.8571" I run this, try it out, it's fun. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4YnMdAldgdhAu6CcigFiAT5LM9mC4/4k8T2IAEB6ZA-jpxHABKVG47HAAAHEAlPCADcBAGf/BAThough shield is probably more effective than offhand dagger.

Nice, that is my build too in wvw. I maxed precision for more healing.This build have a lot less sustain (no auto proc and adrenaline health) and its hard to play 1VX but its so much fun. The "meta" build is so boring ...Here you have a balanced spellbreaker and no autoproc. Sadly last day, a deadeye oneshot me with a 34K7 deathjudgement x)

already maining holo since release, played all pve content in holo, and its actually usable in raidtho i only played spell in pvp..but i'm going to practice holo during the season down time and plan to play it next season..if nothing changes

Don't really agree with nerfing last stand, but the rest.....ya sure.

Full counter is just made like the other invulnerabilities were made. It really does need a shorter duration. heck every invulnerability should have a shorter duration. THe simplest way is just to follow the pvp model and make endure pain for example 30 second cd 2 sec invulnerabilities. More and better options would involve using the ammo system in some way.

All passives should be more hands on as well as you said. Like signets kinda do this......offer passive and handson but like signets should honestly be what the passive traits should be and then utilities should be left open to very handson utility utility stuff....

@Henry.5713 said:Passive defenses have been the name of the game for years now. An issue not unique to the warriors, though they are amongst the main offenders.Full Counter basically became the "warrior steal". They noticed a lot of stuff the core warrior was lacking in PvP and decided to throw all of that onto a single class ability for some reason just like they did with the old thief builds. The entire fight is decided by how good you are at avoiding or simply predicting it. This turns the Full Counter from an active defensive ability we have been asking for into something that is almost like a bunch of passive thrown together.

We have been seeing different ideas on how to balance the spellbreaker properly, but mostly from the personal point of view of the individual players. Those running conditions hate the resistance uptime, those roaming in groups hate the Full Counter and it's ability to hit multiple targets while random people trigger it, those using blocks and fields or symbols hate how the spellbreaker can simply walk into those to interrupt them though blocks. People who got used to relying on boons mostly hate the boon rip obviously. You see different people asking for different harsh nerfs. SPvP or WvW related, it doesn't matter. I just hope they listen to everyone but don't do all of these harsh nerfs at once. Something that has happened before.

basically they did the cheap mode... instead of doing a spec with synergy between multiple skills, they put everything in one, if it gets Overpowered, "ah then just increase Cooldown" and all problems solved.

After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

But it was never a big problem against core warriors.. not even last stand (you do lose CI) but now it is a problem. But thats because full counter added the list..

I just hope Anet doesnt nerf core because of SB.. making core even less viable just to make SB less OP

@nicknamenick.2437 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

I've never liked those core war traits as they were anyways. I would rather they get replaced with something powerful but requires more active gameplay.

Don't touch my Full Counter!! ... at least, not in Open World. In every other mode, have at it.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

But, excluding Full Counter, a core warrior has all of that good lovin' and wasn't seen as OP. Moreover, I'm taking apart Spellbreakers pretty handily as a core warrior. So why isn't what you describe more likely SB being a good counter to the Holo build you're using?

I play guardian, mostly retaliation/mediation. I have the edge, but man a fight with a SB takes forever and you can never play aggressive. And I get punshied if a condi dps ally shows up.

It is just terrible design all across.

@Choppy.4183 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

Full Counter covers up the gap in our defenses that used to exist. You can win as core war because Strength will give you the damage edge so as long as you don't trigger FC of course you'll win. This game isn't based on 1v1 though and the fact remains that SB is way too good in outnumbered situations and team fights where FC is basically a guaranteed trigger.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:

@Choppy.4183 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:After playing even more Holo I'm going to detail what it takes to beat a Spellbreaker and why I am growing to understand the hate we get.

1. You have to trigger Last Stand with a junk CC then wait for around 10 seconds before you can CC again.
2. Bait out Shield Stance.
3. Bait out Endure Pain.
4. Stop your burst at 50% because of Defy Pain.
5. Try to avoid triggering Full Counter every 6 seconds.

After you do that you have a brief window before those passives start coming off ICD. It's just as unfun to fight as pre fix Scourge. While you can run a non meta build the vast majority will.

Holo has some very similar traits to Warrior but they tend to be way better balanced. Reactive Lenses are a free stun break but offers no pulsing stability. Self Regulating Defense doesn't let you attack and triggers when you're so low it's basically just used in an attempt to run or get to a teammate while you die to condis. Hilo hits hard, but so does Spellbreaker and it's much easier to sustain yourself.

Honestly I too used to be in the "L2P" camp when it came to SB, but really even if you aren't triggering FC you still can't do anything while it's up, and it's up a lot.

SB just took away the old weaknesses we had that made the passives less powerful.

Holosmith got as much or even better damage pressure than a core warrior, a core warrior can fight a spellbreaker, so as a holosmith. I have once watched a core warrior and a holosmith duel in wvw and i was like looking at 2 demi god fighting each other for couple mins, holosmith got the upper hand though... I don't know the result as it was getting bored over 3 mins of fighting so i have left.