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What is the real list of OPness right now?

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  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jekkt.6045 said:
    revenant: can you finally buff ventari? the healing is low and the range around the tablet is too small.

    bump

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Druid should absolutely never be buffed.

    Druid should be reworked so that it's support capacity to heal others is exceptional but the druid itself is squishy and very susceptible to being focused. Kind of like a classic scourge except with damage.

    But right now with everything GW2 has this original sin with the class and skill design where it's basically impossible to make a class that heals others like a traditional support that doesn't also create a nearly unkillable bunker that doesn't even bother playing support and just squats on the side node. See also; Core Ele, Scrapper, Ventari Rev, Chronomancer. Support Firebrand prior to Symbolbrand might be the first spec that actually lived up to being almost exclusively support and reasonably focusable.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Revert all nerfs since pof until every class is on rev and holo level, simple!

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2020

    The clear contenders for the nerfbat are Revenat as a whole the entire profession is exceedingly strong atm with lots of elements of it being broken. Not far behind that is Holo nades but that is a really simple fix honestly if Anet get there act together, they can fix these issues. War defintely needs a buff its extremelly weak at this moment in time.

  • @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    if Anet get there act together, they can fix these issues

    They could fix it in one day if they wanted to

    War defintely needs a buff its extremelly weak at this moment in time.

    Warrior has the damage and it has its CCs. The tools to kill opponents are there !
    The real problem of warrior atm is, that it cant stand condi damage over time. If warrior gets a little help in this point it will be back again.

  • lysico.1297lysico.1297 Member ✭✭

    Dead eyes need love.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lysico.1297 said:
    Dead eyes need love.

    Another spec that should never be good in conquest.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No, some builds are fundamentally impossible to balance and should be bad.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    No, some builds are fundamentally impossible to balance and should be bad.

    You didn't even give a good reason as to why Druid shouldn't be fixed. That class has been garbage tier ever since it's healing coefficients end up getting a bat. Druid is WAYYY easier to balance than Deadeye because with the damage nerf in pets they are actually controllable now. If anything they should tick back up the healing, watch it, and if it is too strong tweak as such.

    You can't sit there and say that Druid can't be balanced when it is not even the same iteration as its predecessor

  • Poledra Val.1490Poledra Val.1490 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    No, some builds are fundamentally impossible to balance and should be bad.

    You didn't even give a good reason as to why Druid shouldn't be fixed. That class has been garbage tier ever since it's healing coefficients end up getting a bat. Druid is WAYYY easier to balance than Deadeye because with the damage nerf in pets they are actually controllable now. If anything they should tick back up the healing, watch it, and if it is too strong tweak as such.

    You can't sit there and say that Druid can't be balanced when it is not even the same iteration as its predecessor

    The problem with Druid is that it has the same problem with Ele in pvp. If they are buffed even slightly they are incredibly broken and if nerfed they almost next to useless its difficult but as it is there are more important things to balance at the moment.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    You didn't even give a good reason as to why Druid shouldn't be fixed. That class has been garbage tier ever since it's healing coefficients end up getting a bat. Druid is WAYYY easier to balance than Deadeye because with the damage nerf in pets they are actually controllable now. If anything they should tick back up the healing, watch it, and if it is too strong tweak as such.

    You can't sit there and say that Druid can't be balanced when it is not even the same iteration as its predecessor

    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

  • Aktium.9506Aktium.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poledra Val.1490 said:
    The problem with Druid is that it has the same problem with Ele in pvp. If they are buffed even slightly they are incredibly broken and if nerfed they almost next to useless its difficult but as it is there are more important things to balance at the moment.

    As long as they never ever buff Ancient Seeds we're fine.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    You didn't even give a good reason as to why Druid shouldn't be fixed. That class has been garbage tier ever since it's healing coefficients end up getting a bat. Druid is WAYYY easier to balance than Deadeye because with the damage nerf in pets they are actually controllable now. If anything they should tick back up the healing, watch it, and if it is too strong tweak as such.

    You can't sit there and say that Druid can't be balanced when it is not even the same iteration as its predecessor

    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

    Such buff would probably stack on the druid itself which would bring us to step 1 where he got to much sustain. Nope, I don't think it's the proper way to handle the druid.

  • Jekkt.6045Jekkt.6045 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

    Such buff would probably stack on the druid itself which would bring us to step 1 where he got to much sustain. Nope, I don't think it's the proper way to handle the druid.

    it's actually really simple. druid heals heal allies for double the amount of what they heal the druid for.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2020

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    What a bunch.....

    January : "Nerf A and buff B"
    February :" Nerf B and buff A"
    March: ""Nerf A and buff B"
    ..............

    I don't envy those people paid to read through this pile of Horse Manure

    thats how balance works, in league champs can get buffed/nerfed every 2 weeks untill they land in a good spot.
    thats what you do, you cant perfectly balance with first try and sometimes you just have to juggle buff/nerfs untill you reach the sweet spot.
    but here we have to wait kitten year for anything to happen.

    No balance can only exist if Elementalist is the best class in everything it does because it's inherently the most balanced.

    Then buff mesmers buff warriors?

    Doesn't one of those 2 counter else? so if mes becomes very viable again it can be used to kill and war can i dunno what they counter.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2020

    @dronte.3416 said:

    @Black Storm.6974 said:

    @dronte.3416 said:
    Reaper is also high on my list.

    And if I can pick a skill instead of a class, I would go with Lich Form. It's just broken.

    Reaper is quite bad right now, you can realise it as soon as you fight against any competent team instead of “PvP beginners”.

    Surviving with it is very difficult, it has low damage and/or low survivability compared to the things already mentioned here.
    When focused in team fight, if you don’t have competent support and a good team with you, you can be taken from 100% HP and 100% LF to death in about 4 seconds, while under the effect of CCs.

    Its damage is not reliable. It is good while in Reaper Shroud, but if the enemy avoid it (and it is very simple with the powerful defences or mobility that other professions have access to) you find yourself with low damage weapons and bad defence for at least 10 seconds (usually more than enough to take down a Reaper).

    Reaper is also a lot inferior to several things mentioned in this thread if fighting 1vs1.

    I mean yeah thats why EU plat t1-t2 are flooded with reapers. Also most MOTA teams were running a reaper just blowing up teamfights.

    Surviving is not difficult with it, if you are good at kiting. The blood version is rather tanky as well. Obviously there are a lot tankier builds out there , but its a tradeoff.

    It's really not that easy to avoid it's damage. in 1v1 maybe, but that's not something that you would do. Also calling axe low damage lol. And lichform can single handedly make or break fights.

    @Black Storm.6974 said:
    I wonder how someone could not notice “something so obvious” (what I mentioned in my post). Probably many people in Silver and Bronze division tend to see most things as OP when played by “decent players”, it is also natural, everyone needs time to learn and there is a lot to learn to become good in PvP.
    PvP is full of things that can easily beat a Reaper, most professions can.

    Maybe several professions can beat it in 1v1, yes, but who cares? Reaper is not a duelist lol. Can't really judge on that. It's one of the best teamfighters out there in competent hands. I don't know about lower tiers and how good it is there, but it's extremely powerful at the top especially when you get good support.

    Nec are kiteable and literally require runes of speed if they did no dmg because shroud is nerfed they would not be used at all in pvp because they would be farmed all day, that's why they are vulnerable to CC.

    Stun daze or criplpe the reaper, outrun him and dodge his attack.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    real list of OPness? as always:
    1)hands
    2)hands
    3)hands for second player on duoq

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

    Such buff would probably stack on the druid itself which would bring us to step 1 where he got to much sustain. Nope, I don't think it's the proper way to handle the druid.

    it's actually really simple. druid heals heal allies for double the amount of what they heal the druid for.

    what stops people from running 2 or 3 druids and bunkering down nodes while entangling people for 1hour at a time?
    you cant make a support only heal and expect it to ever be balanced

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's as simple as this:

    No one wants to fight druids in PvP.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    It's as simple as this:

    No one wants to fight druids in PvP.

    That's cuz anet cant design non cheese specs for the life of them, entangle not ancient seeds should have never existed as they are. Remove the hp.

  • Jekkt.6045Jekkt.6045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 23, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

    Such buff would probably stack on the druid itself which would bring us to step 1 where he got to much sustain. Nope, I don't think it's the proper way to handle the druid.

    it's actually really simple. druid heals heal allies for double the amount of what they heal the druid for.

    what stops people from running 2 or 3 druids and bunkering down nodes while entangling people for 1hour at a time?
    you cant make a support only heal and expect it to ever be balanced

    not like you can't play 5 firebrands or 5 tempests and spam auras and tomes all day. stuff like that never works. once you lose a node the match is over because you can't get them back. change the knockback glyph to knockdown and it will be fine.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    The issue with druid is the avatar. It's just to focused on healing. The purpose of the e-spec was most likely to provide support to it's teammate, however ANet didn't take into account that this support can be used selfishly on self, giving a lot of sustain to the profession when dueling.

    To create something "balanced" ANet could either choose to make the spec harmless or rework the avatar, replacing most of the healing by middling damage and force the heal on the glyph while in avatar. Needless to say that ANet choose the easy way around and broke the spec, like they broke scourge, chrono, mirage... etc.

    A stacking buff when healing teamates would probably help, and i mean teammates not pets and spirits. So it scales with people healed instead of afk side node.

    Such buff would probably stack on the druid itself which would bring us to step 1 where he got to much sustain. Nope, I don't think it's the proper way to handle the druid.

    it's actually really simple. druid heals heal allies for double the amount of what they heal the druid for.

    what stops people from running 2 or 3 druids and bunkering down nodes while entangling people for 1hour at a time?
    you cant make a support only heal and expect it to ever be balanced

    not like you can't play 5 firebrands or 5 tempests and spam auras and tomes all day. stuff like that never works. once you lose a node the match is over because you can't get them back. change the knockback glyph to knockdown and it will be fine.

    I played NVO where cleric had this mechanic. Their endurance mechanic was basically what GW2 dodge was too.
    when team had 1 cleric it was fine and balanced, but when they had 2 it instantly became -> kill them in 0,2s or you never kill anything ever.
    Im just weary, been there seen that.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grimjack.8130 said:

    S
    Condi Rev
    Holo
    Ranger
    Condi Thief

    A
    LR Weaver
    Tempest
    Power Thief
    Reaper
    Soulbeast

    B
    CoreNecro
    Firebrand
    Power Rev
    Renegade

    C
    Scrapper
    Druid
    Deadeye
    Mender Core Guard

    D
    Mirage
    Weaver
    DH

    F
    Warrior in general
    Chrono
    Scourge

    Nerf everything from S and A
    Buff everything from D and F
    Slight nerfs and buffs to certain skills in B and C, but thats where you want to be.
    Unhealthy gameplay can be nerfed when a class is still deserving of buffs still.
    Not in any particular order within the tiers.

    This is the best tier list in the thread imo.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • Aria Lliane.8693Aria Lliane.8693 Member ✭✭
    edited June 24, 2020

    As a Tempest, and as the squishy-est class in the game, my top struggles are:
    Rangers (any and all types, but specially if they use a bow, should include deadeyes here [hell, even warriors or guardians with a bow could be here], can do so much dmg while easily keeping the distance, almost seems unfair) - Revenants (so much cc, and so much dmg, an all round strong class) - Dragonhunters (master of CCs and sustain) - Warriors (spellbreakers, they just need to strip you of your buffs and kill you in 2 hits, that easy) - Mesmers (shatter-tons-of-dmg-master-of-1hit-kills-with-5k-condis) - Deadeyes (hit and run, you can't hit what you can't see ºinsert john cena u cant see me emoteº) - Weaver (can never kill a weaver... just wth)

    What i feel comfortable fighting against (guess this would be in a 1v1).... any other Tempest, its squeeshy as hell, so easy to cc and kill.

    As of general OPness top list, that can basically solo any\most role(s) in a Team fight without major issue or would just be so OP if you had 2 or 3 of them:

    1. Revenants - a class without a con or a flaw is just op right? (just today in a match 1 rev kept far for our team.... lol I totally felt bad for the other Team)
    2. Dragonhunters - will just cc the balls out of you, has good sustain and decent amounts of damage, and on top of that is not so squishy as a squishy Ele - what was the flaw again?
    3. Any Ranger class... but specially Soulbeast - and i still don't know how the hell a Ranger(also mesmers) times their interrupts for my skills when pvp has so much delay between skill-click\cast
    4. The white background of gw2 forums - this kitten burns my eyes, should be grey or at least have a "night mode" saved on profile.

    Just wanted to comment on the discussion you guys had about Druids, its true you don't see many in pvp, but at least in raids the preferred support classes are Guardian and Druid. The top reason is Alacrity or Aegis and Stability. I also think Guardian is more preferred in pvp than for example tempest.

  • Aihao.5824Aihao.5824 Member ✭✭✭

    just bring things they were before february patch

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2020

    Nade kit specifically, to some extent flash bang, the sustain revenants, particularly mallyx revenants have, the amount of direct dmg thieves can pull off from stealth (I got 8.5Ked in 10 frames from stealth by a thief the other night), condi thief in general, Trapper Runes (DH should not have stealth and condi rangers get too much value from it), shock aura especially when shared (should be converted to a Daze), the double ports power revs can do that you don't see coming, flamethrower engis because the flamethrower isn't interactive, core necro only needing 10 seconds before popping full lazy shroud again (should be increased to 12 seconds), the 10+ stacks of burn guards can apply to you for 8+ seconds), and ranger's pulsing immobilizations. That's what I find to be broken and unhealthy for the game.

  • Zeesh.7286Zeesh.7286 Member ✭✭

    Yes lets complain about a 90 secs CD rez skill that takes 2 secs to cast and fails half the time in random Q because the thief/mesmer/ele decide to move away from the place you cast it at. Then you either cancel it and watch them die in the new location because its not on a 3 secs cooldown and you're too busy saving your own outnumbered kitten or you just let it go off and waste the cooldown because those idiots don't really deserve a rez after pulling that trick...

    Tempest is just fine. Try playing the class. It requires alot more skill to pull of rez/heal as a tempest. It's not just a pop a button thing watch bars go full type of thing. Everything has to be timed. Overload just a bit earlier or start one just a bit later and watch people die. Cleansing isn't just a 1 button deal. Overloads have to be available at the right time. It is a very high skill cap class.

    Rev OP nerf this anet -.-

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aria Lliane.8693 said:
    2. Dragonhunters - will just cc the balls out of you, has good sustain and decent amounts of damage, and on top of that is not so squishy as a squishy Ele - what was the flaw again?

    Press the dodge button to avoid traps, walk out of symbols.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2020

    imo

    1 Elementalist (specifically the elites and Lightning Rod)
    Tempest has needed aura nerfs ever since the overall nerf patch dropped and 2v2 revealed just how strong they were.
    3v3 came along and tempest were still the bane of it.
    Basically right now in 5v5 having tempest on your team is overall a gift from the gods because it tips the odds in your favor considerably if they other team does not have one.
    AURA SHARE IS WAY TOO STRONG WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME!
    things like shocking aura and magnetic aura should have a fixed number triggers and once those are used the aura fades. Shocking aura in pvp likely shouldnt last more than a single hit at least when shared with allies.

    Lightning rod is a bit over the top for just throwing out CC's imo the trait should be changed to on interrupt instead of on cc hit. Simply chaining cc's one after another for burst damage and weakness application at the same time is not going to be healthy in the long run. Please dont forget to nerf the earth shield it hits obnoxiously hard because it was basically untouched it is a niche thing but still not something that should be ignored.

    2 Engi (Holo and Scrapper or specifically explosives.)
    NADES NADES NADES simply put skills 2 but mainly 4 and 5 are doing way too much dps for the heavy condition application that goes with them. Its one thing to want to dodge certain skills but when all the options deal such insane amounts of damage nades have become the avoid all of them or just take tons of damage staple.
    Nade Barrage doing up to 12k (from stealth) is not healthy skill 2 doing 6k and skills 4 and 5 doing roughly 4-5k are also not if tool belt nade burst was the only skill i had to worry about it wouldnt even be upset about it but all of them do such insane amounts of damage it leaves me questioning how anet has not looked into it yet.

    Explosive entrance and Flash-bang
    Explosive entrance needs to lose its ability to crit if its going to be something that refreshes on dodge. Flash-bang needs a ICD its more obnoxious than ele's blind on burn application trait.

    3 General
    I dont really have a 3rd profession to list i think the rest is more so dealing with the issue that condition damage specifically burst condition is heavily outshining power options right now. I even question if burst condition should be in the game at all. All conditions should be a ramp that slowly works up to doing a sustained amount of damage not something you can land instantly and within 2s the other player is at half hp. I would like to see more professions get burst condition cut considerably and more effort looked at slow ramp and sustained condition damage. I dare say that at this point burst condition application should not exist in the game with power burst sitting where it is on most professions.

  • Aria Lliane.8693Aria Lliane.8693 Member ✭✭
    edited June 24, 2020

    @Aihao.5824 said:
    just bring things they were before february patch

    that doesn't make sence.

    @memausz.7264 said:
    Nade kit specifically, to some extent flash bang, the sustain revenants, particularly mallyx revenants have, the amount of direct dmg thieves can pull off from stealth (I got 8.5Ked in 10 frames from stealth by a thief the other night), condi thief in general, Trapper Runes (DH should not have stealth and condi rangers get too much value from it), shock aura especially when shared (should be converted to a Daze), the double ports power revs can do that you don't see coming, flamethrower engis because the flamethrower isn't interactive, core necro only needing 10 seconds before popping full lazy shroud again (should be increased to 12 seconds), the 10+ stacks of burn guards can apply to you for 8+ seconds), and ranger's pulsing immobilizations. That's what I find to be broken and unhealthy for the game.

    90% agree with this. For the remaining 10%, why put Eles even weaker? The class almost got deleted since December, its only clinging to some niche technicalities, any new players prefers to play other classes for a reason. Most Eles already switched to Guardians, Rangers or Necros anyway, just leave the remaining alone.

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Aria Lliane.8693 said:
    2. Dragonhunters - will just cc the balls out of you, has good sustain and decent amounts of damage, and on top of that is not so squishy as a squishy Ele - what was the flaw again?

    Press the dodge button to avoid traps, walk out of symbols.

    Just to get pulled and pushed back again. What is the point? Just better to leave him be and go some other node really.

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    imo

    1 Elementalist (specifically the elites and Lightning Rod)
    tl;dr Tempest needs nerfs ever since the overall nerf patch dropped and 2v2 revealed just how strong they were.

    For years less and less people are playing Elementalist for all the consecutive nerfs.
    Last December patch was the most impactfull.
    The February 2v2 patch made even more people leave the class. Right now no one enjoys playing the class, there's only a few left.
    I don't get your point. I would prefer my team to have 2 revenants, 2 guardians, 2 necros, 2 mesmers or 2 rangers any day to any 2 ele combo.
    If you are here because some Tempest kicked ya but in pvp, then give him a medal, hats off to him\her.

    I would really love to see a chart of the amount of players playing each class every day in pvp, and the % of games won per class.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    First three offenders are condi and power rev and holo.

    But a word about Tempest: While I don't think it is too OP (FB is still a very valid choice as well), it might require some tweaks. Revive skills are just not very fun to play with and against, so maybe change it a little or simply increase the CD along with all the other revive skills. Then Tempest might be pretty much on par with FB. If not, tweak with Aura share duration: 50% duration on allies? 75%? Something like that if it is needed. Pretty easy to adjust even in one or two week intervals.

    Won't work with updates every 6 months though of course. :lol:

    €: Please also enable ele to play something else halfway effectively. And who thought a stunbreak with 1s evade would be great on a 75s CD?!

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aria Lliane.8693 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    imo

    1 Elementalist (specifically the elites and Lightning Rod)
    tl;dr Tempest needs nerfs ever since the overall nerf patch dropped and 2v2 revealed just how strong they were.

    For years less and less people are playing Elementalist for all the consecutive nerfs.
    Last December patch was the most impactfull.
    The February 2v2 patch made even more people leave the class. Right now no one enjoys playing the class, there's only a few left.
    I don't get your point. I would prefer my team to have 2 revenants, 2 guardians, 2 necros, 2 mesmers or 2 rangers any day to any 2 ele combo.

    I dont understand this bit a 2 ele combo... no one does that you dont need that you only needed 1. having 2 tempest often causes deminishing returns to the team overall so there is never a reason to to have 2 of them and when there are 2 of them thats when you see things fall apart. 1 tempest is all you ever would really need on a team so im confused by the point you are trying to make here.

    If you are here because some Tempest kicked ya but in pvp, then give him a medal, hats off to him\her.

    Im not here for that but o...k....
    Solo Tempest is a not an issue.
    In fact solo most professions are not "that" big of any issue no one is really trying to go down that road so im not sure why you suggested the idea of that.
    Im simply saying that certain auras are strong and the ability to share them as they currently are makes them very potent.

    I would really love to see a chart of the amount of players playing each class every day in pvp, and the % of games won per class.

    Im sure we all would not that it would matter to be honest. Games being won and loss depend on many variables and while players playing each class might suggest to some extent whats favored and whats not its not a effective way to determine if something is over-performing alone you would need more than just players playing each class and games won per class. There are some players to opt to stick to their favs regardless if they are doing good or bad in the meta and others who play everything because they dont favor anything.

    I suppose if anything i could have made it more clear what im pointing at with tempest was the auras in their current state and tempest just happens to be where you see the strongest auras being utilized the most. If anything I could have simply said (the auras are too strong in their current designed state) and left tempest out of the equation.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

    Shocking was the way it was for a long time because everyone and their mother literally blasted the kitten class into out space even with 17k health and heals. Hell, even now, someone can do the same thing as soon as someone drops poison on you cutting your healing by a GOOD portion. So if you take away two originally DEFENSIVE auras that were meant to stop the brainless power range builds (SB and deadeye) and the brainless builds that let you go bonkers in melee range (literally either condi or power) what will tempest have left as an ACTIVE defense? If you nerf auras, that class deserves some sort of compensation in their core areas, PERIOD, because that point you are hitting both CORE and TEMPEST.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Shock aura is only a problem when shared. Make its stun icd global, not per aura hit.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

    So people want to nerf auras. Thats what this thread sounds like it's heading towards. The class mechanic of core Ele is no where near OP or in need of nerfs. In fact, only 2/4 auras are being complained about.

    Shocking and magnetic aura are defenses that stop melee and range attacks. That's it. 4 sec duration.
    On other classes, there are literally skills in this game that force players to stop attacking all together. There are skills, that when triggered, force players to dodge and run like kitten! Auras don't do that. They only force players to change the way they are attacking. Not to stop attacking all together.

    Auras are literally the only defense Ele has left aside from boons. Don't nerf them, learn how to counter them

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    My list of the BS classes/builds that need nerfs in no particular order include Condi Thief, Power/Condi Revenant, Core Bunker Necro/Reaper. There are definitely other things that need to be looked at but these builds in particular allow for little to no counter play. They're just awful.

  • Aihao.5824Aihao.5824 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aria Lliane.8693 said:

    @Aihao.5824 said:
    just bring things they were before february patch

    that doesn't make sence.

    i makes

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

    Shocking was the way it was for a long time because everyone and their mother literally blasted the kitten class into out space even with 17k health and heals. Hell, even now, someone can do the same thing as soon as someone drops poison on you cutting your healing by a GOOD portion. So if you take away two originally DEFENSIVE auras that were meant to stop the brainless power range builds (SB and deadeye) and the brainless builds that let you go bonkers in melee range (literally either condi or power) what will tempest have left as an ACTIVE defense? If you nerf auras, that class deserves some sort of compensation in their core areas, PERIOD, because that point you are hitting both CORE and TEMPEST.

    Careful what you call brainless is all i have to say you currently have people running around on weaver splattering cc to do damage and shocking aura is also a part of that too. Every profession or most of them have something that some one can consider brainless. Heck even weaver in the past just had to press stances and run at a player with pulsing burning aoes to win. It certainly didnt always work but it was effective enough for people to run it commonly in pvp.

    I wont go too far down the road of what you consider to be brainless and what you dont because it seems off topic and really serves no purpose but no doubt some people see certain auras as problematic. You dont have to agree if you dont want to though.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

    So people want to nerf auras. Thats what this thread sounds like it's heading towards. The class mechanic of core Ele is no where near OP or in need of nerfs. In fact, only 2/4 auras are being complained about.

    Auras might be a problem so its not really a surprise. But the game is still in a messy state right now too so thats also something to consider.
    The class mechanic of core ele is having a fluid play style and basically stance swapping through the elements the auras are technically not a unique mehcanic to ele only. Other professions have had access to some auras since the core game through combo finishers. While they are certainly a staple part of the elementalist profession i wouldn't consider them a "core mechanic" The core mechanic is swapping through different elemental stances and having 20 weapon skills any single weapon set technically.

    Shocking and magnetic aura are defenses that stop melee and range attacks. That's it. 4 sec duration.
    On other classes, there are literally skills in this game that force players to stop attacking all together. There are skills, that when triggered, force players to dodge and run like kitten! Auras don't do that. They only force players to change the way they are attacking. Not to stop attacking all together.

    I need you to read what you wrote here carefully.
    Shocking aura and Magnetic aura stop melee and ranged attacks respectively...
    Other skills in the game force players to stop attacking all together.....
    Auras dont do that....

    Sorry but those two auras do exactly that for at least specifically melee and ranged attacks respectively. Of course you can opt to attack regardless which results in you being punished like many of those other skills in the game you can find on other professions. This is nothing new.

    Auras are literally the only defense Ele has left aside from boons. Don't nerf them, learn how to counter them

    Dont agree here.
    Ele has evades, blocks, and invuln skills along side those auras to sit and say Auras are the only defense a bit of a blunt a lie. They are certainly a part of the defenses but to say they are the only defenses along side boons is a bit false.

    This is besides the point though if auras remained strongest on ele thats fine by me my issue is those same auras once shared on other professions are likely stronger than they should be. You dont have to agree but im leaving it at that.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

    Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

    Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

    I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

    Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.
    Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

    If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

    So people want to nerf auras. Thats what this thread sounds like it's heading towards. The class mechanic of core Ele is no where near OP or in need of nerfs. In fact, only 2/4 auras are being complained about.

    Auras might be a problem so its not really a surprise. But the game is still in a messy state right now too so thats also something to consider.
    The class mechanic of core ele is having a fluid play style and basically stance swapping through the elements the auras are technically not a unique mehcanic to ele only. Other professions have had access to some auras since the core game through combo finishers. While they are certainly a staple part of the elementalist profession i wouldn't consider them a "core mechanic" The core mechanic is swapping through different elemental stances and having 20 weapon skills any single weapon set technically.

    Shocking and magnetic aura are defenses that stop melee and range attacks. That's it. 4 sec duration.
    On other classes, there are literally skills in this game that force players to stop attacking all together. There are skills, that when triggered, force players to dodge and run like kitten! Auras don't do that. They only force players to change the way they are attacking. Not to stop attacking all together.

    I need you to read what you wrote here carefully.
    Shocking aura and Magnetic aura stop melee and ranged attacks respectively...
    Other skills in the game force players to stop attacking all together.....
    Auras dont do that....

    Sorry but those two auras do exactly that for at least specifically melee and ranged attacks respectively. Of course you can opt to attack regardless which results in you being punished like many of those other skills in the game you can find on other professions. This is nothing new.

    Auras are literally the only defense Ele has left aside from boons. Don't nerf them, learn how to counter them

    Dont agree here.
    Ele has evades, blocks, and invuln skills along side those auras to sit and say Auras are the only defense a bit of a blunt a lie. They are certainly a part of the defenses but to say they are the only defenses along side boons is a bit false.

    This is besides the point though if auras remained strongest on ele thats fine by me my issue is those same auras once shared on other professions are likely stronger than they should be. You dont have to agree but im leaving it at that.

    As an Ele myself, it's very difficult to trigger Shocking and Magnetic aura at the same time. A lot of investment would have to be taken to do that, and if so, 4 sec is gone and all that protection goes away with it. Many other classes have both range and melee options, so if an Ele triggers a certain aura. Then the opposing character only has to adapt to it.

    There's just too many ways to counter Auras to consider it needing nerfs. There are ground aoes, range cc's, unblockables, etc. Tempests are actually very easy to kill if you can pin them down. That's really the issue with them. So many classes have ways to attack without having to sit in melee or without having to rely on range. All I would suggest for nerfing is Aura's shared to other players. But not nerfs to auras granted to the Ele themselves.

    Even a Core Ranger, who relies both on range and melee can still beat a weaver if played right. I've triggered magnetic aura, and the ranger switches to greatsword. So I trigger shocking aura, and he kites while the pet cc's and attacks. So I'm forced to run after him, and next thing you know, his longbow is switched again and I'm knocked back. It can be a long fight of cat and mouse and it's all in the counter play and timing.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes, nerf Glint/Mallyx so all you'll get is Jalis+Anything and still complain about Revenant in the end because Jalis is actually just as great if not better in many ways Glint cannot be.

    I find it hilarious that in all my matches, even the labeled GODS and BEST OF THE BEST with Glint/Mallyx are the least of my worries but also the ones that end up dying the most or be the least useful players, probably because the meta is overhyped, you read Metabattle guide on the build and they have little to no evidence of proper strategy with the build either, I've played it for so long and I still feel that it's inherently weak as it was before the feb patch dropped because I kill it the same way I have always. What an horrible mess, I barely play condition anymore since they killed PP for Core Condi Revenant and Core Power Revenant is extremely weak to conditions yet my easiest kills come from fighting other less experienced Revenants that use pretty much Glint all the time, how bad does Glint have to be changed until people realize they're just not doing it right?

    Glint/Mallyx damage is poop and the only thing that makes it OP is the lack of judgement from players fighting it because it's sustain DEPENDS on it.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Druid should absolutely never be buffed.

    Druid should be reworked so that it's support capacity to heal others is exceptional but the druid itself is squishy and very susceptible to being focused. Kind of like a classic scourge except with damage.

    But right now with everything GW2 has this original sin with the class and skill design where it's basically impossible to make a class that heals others like a traditional support that doesn't also create a nearly unkillable bunker that doesn't even bother playing support and just squats on the side node. See also; Core Ele, Scrapper, Ventari Rev, Chronomancer. Support Firebrand prior to Symbolbrand might be the first spec that actually lived up to being almost exclusively support and reasonably focusable.

    Reading what you wrote it made me think of berserkering it. I.e. removing stats by taking the spec. Preventing it from becoming an immortal bunker and tunnelling people into the play style needed. An example (numbers are arbitrary) -300 toughness/vitality or lowering the healing power scaling but massively increasing the %outgoing healing to others. Of course other interactions would need to be observed or reworked, like how this would impact the pet. However I really feel something needs to be done about druid. Literally the only thing carrying it right now is ancient seeds which I want them to remove so the class can be fixed and not so gimmicky.

  • Gundahar.2765Gundahar.2765 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 is the only MMO where warriors are the worst in pvp. That says alot about balancing.

  • dronte.3416dronte.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    Do we have any idea when we will get at least a minor balance patch? This season wouldn't even be bad if holos, call to anguish, some condirev tankiness and lich form would be brought in line.