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Class for commander

Wandred.4583Wandred.4583 Member ✭✭

Was a commander since 2013 ti 2016, guardian ofc
and im pretty tired of this character, wanna try something new.
What do you think about rev or auramancer with a tag? :/
ready for toxic shot! :3

Comments

  • Len.1879Len.1879 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    Minstrel Mesmer. As a commander, you need to stay alive for as long as possible. Have your personal stability, sustain and invul frames through mantras and sword, as well as those perfectly timed veils and portal bombs you have ever dreamed of. Just be careful with blinking around, your zerg might get confused af.

    EDIT: sorry, I misread your OP. Thought you were looking for class advice in general. I have no opinion on those two classes you suggested.

  • Saleerian.2973Saleerian.2973 Member ✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    Actually having a lot of fun as minstrel chrono with 10-15 men group behind. You have pretty wide utility (stealth, cc, reflects, decent cleanse and really strong revives etc) you can support siege/fast caps + you can setup really nice portal bombs yourself aswell.

    BTW you should try fishing.. the best thing about mesmers :)

    about Revenant
    I did a lil bit testing with ventari renegade and it was really cool with 10 men group, but I wouldnt recommend it for big blob fights.
    You can try trailblazer core or herald tho and lead as example for big dives. You can guarantee backline kills with banish > pulls.

  • Wandred.4583Wandred.4583 Member ✭✭

    @Len.1879 said:
    Minstrel Mesmer. As a commander, you need to stay alive for as long as possible. Have your personal stability, sustain and invul frames through mantras and sword, as well as those perfectly timed veils and portal bombs you have ever dreamed of. Just be careful with blinking around, your zerg might get confused af.

    EDIT: sorry, I misread your OP. Thought you were looking for class advice in general. I have no opinion on those two classes you suggested.

    Sounds like a good idea.
    For now, small group is a great chance to play, on SFR.
    I should try this, thanks for the advice)

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Wandred.4583 said:
    Was a commander since 2013 ti 2016, guardian ofc
    and im pretty tired of this character, wanna try something new.
    What do you think about rev or auramancer with a tag? :/
    ready for toxic shot! :3

    I think I've seen pretty much every profession used by a tag. Some are way more useful than others of course, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. It's all in how you build it, and what you as the driver want to be able to do yourself

    What I've seen most commonly:

    • Firebrand (usually support but I have seen Condi)
    • Spellbreaker
    • Mesmer (usually Chrono, but Core as well)

    These are obvious, since a commander doesn't have to call out for Winds or Portals/Veil if they are the ones using it.

    But I have also seen Herald, Thief, Scourge, Scrapper, and Core Guardian as drivers. I don't think I've ever seen a Ranger though

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    So what are we talking, here, commanding 3 random people?

    Because it really doesnt matter what class you bring if you're not "serious" about it. And even if you do... well meh. People will demand you're on firebrand but it's up to you whether you listen to that.

    I do find it weird that people suggest mesmer though. It's entire concept is built on evasion and teleportation... and you do not want the commander to teleport around on the battlefield lol. Plus it's not one of the big zergers anymore - guard, necro, warrior, rev or engie. Out of these, I would also toss away the rev because tbh, it only brings the hammer damage. In addition to that, I would also toss away the necro. Just like rev, it mostly brings just damage. Any choice between the remaining guard, warrior and engie would be good because of 3 reasons - previously mentioned people demanding you're on guard, knowing the long cd of the warrior bubble that can be a fight decider and knowing the fairly long cd on the vastly underused stealth gyro. Plus, these 3 can all run decent healers and support build aimed more at utility and as such can be good at facetanking.

    (as a sidenote I did try a "frontline command" mesmer long ago - before everything was nerfed to kitten - and it was pretty kitten awful to play with. Yeah you could stealth but that was about it, as soon as it was under pressure from an enemy zerg it flopped around like a fish on dry land)

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • jsp.6912jsp.6912 Member ✭✭✭

    fb, rest is garbage

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    I do find it weird that people suggest mesmer though. It's entire concept is built on evasion and teleportation... and you do not want the commander to teleport around on the battlefield lol. Plus it's not one of the big zergers anymore - guard, necro, warrior, rev or engie.

    (as a sidenote I did try a "frontline command" mesmer long ago - before everything was nerfed to kitten - and it was pretty kitten awful to play with. Yeah you could stealth but that was about it, as soon as it was under pressure from an enemy zerg it flopped around like a fish on dry land)

    My guild has no problem with me commanding on mesmer.. I wont reveal all our strats and compositions but if you have dedicated group there is no problem to lead the group as chrono.

    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    Your job as a commander is to ensure that the entire group is in-sync and executing whatever plan you happen to have in your mind to its fullest. There's a forums worth of discussion to be had over these things but the two basic requirements are: You need to be able to communicate to the group, and the group has to be able/willing to listen.

    Notice class at this juncture is totally irrelevant to those two things. There are some things that will frustrate the above two goals. You dying can make it hard to understand what needs to be communicated. You dying loses you respect. You not knowing what to do on your class detracts from your concentration communicating. You playing your class poorly gives people reason to not listen to you. Along with others.

    So when figuring out what to command on, the first step is figuring out what you want to do (Generally this is lead a large zerg to fight another large zerg, but this is not the only goal in WvW as much as people like to pretend it is). Then figure out what you can A. Play effectively whilst communicating to a group what you are trying to do and what you want them to do and B. What adds to the achievement of that goal.

    An example, the a common commander on every server is your pugmander. This is almost universally a firebrand because in order to succeed at fighting zerg v zerg in WvW you need stab and as a pugmander you can't guarantee pugs will bring it. Mesmers get used sometimes too as they have a weaker but still effective AoE stab and also have a very nice pull that creates an easy 'HIT HERE' target.

    However, in charge of your own group you gain a lot of flexibility. Maybe you really like playing ranger so you make a druid build with a ton of immobilizes to use in a bubble, and you communicate and train the group to maximize these catches as you sync up with your spellbreakers. Maybe you feel more comfortable on the spellbreaker so you play that instead. Both of the builds will err on the side of tankiness as, again, dying is bad, but neither of them is wrong. There can be a case made of this sort for just about every class, though some are more common than others.

    In short, command on whatever you want, but minstrel gear is likely the way to go because dying makes commanding hard. And whatever you do choose, make sure it plays a part in whatever plan you are going for. For actual builds, Command Chronos and Firebrands are the most common I see, Heal Tempests, Transfusion Scourges, Heal/DPS Scrappers, and Heal breakers I've seen also get used to varying levels of success.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    If im commanding (usually night groups of max. 25) ,im always staying with my main, which is Full Trailblazer/Dire Condi Herald.

    Not like we can stand alot, but at night where maybe 20vs20 fights occur (as max) ,its doing pretty well.
    Maybe not so much for bigger fights

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs -> downies -> mount finish and we gone

  • Faenar.8036Faenar.8036 Member ✭✭✭

    Literally any class is good for commanding, even a Thief. Thief have good movement and maneuverability, and enemy usually dont expect thieves to be commanders. On SFR server, we had good and known commanders with all classes, well, thieves and rangers are probably the least used (but still can be seen from time to time). Rev is definitely a good class for commanding, it can sustain hard and long fights almost as much as a FB can (but probably not so strong against enemy CC).

    What I'm trying to say is that class is not the most important thing. The two most important things imho in zerg-play are:
    1) teamplay (with precise timing cooperation - for example focus-bombing)
    2) voice communication (mostly TeamSpeak or Discord) and players in zerg willing to listen and obey (you know, even the elite commander cant do anything without a good zerg following (and obeying) him)
    - these two things are the most important, anything else comes second.

    If you insist about best class, its highly disputable, 100 players will probably have 350 different opinions, but imho FB best, Rev / Spellbreaker second. These 3 are probably the strongest for commanding purpose with zerg effectivity taken into account. Ofc, Veils and Portals with good surprise moment can totally obliterate entire enemy blob, biut these mesmer things are gighly situational, where FB/Rev/SB abilities are usefull everywhere everytime.

    About small scale roaming group, I cannot say much, Im not much interested in this gameplay style so I do not have big experience with it.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    core war with sword leaps will always be best

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    I don't think Auramancer is a good choice, playing one myself. There's just not enough Stabilty on it so if your zerg isn't supporting you well you'll become a ping-pong ball, compared to classes like Guardian and Warrior who have lots of self-applied Stab.

    That said I mostly Comm on my Reaper (full Sentinel's, 40k health, 3.8k armor and Trooper Runes), so Stability isn't everything.

    I main SB in WvW but she's half glass (Crusader+Zealot's), so I don't Comm on her.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (NA) | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)
    The fun part of being a link server is tagging up and hearing "who are you?"

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @Wandred.4583 said:
    Was a commander since 2013 ti 2016, guardian ofc
    and im pretty tired of this character, wanna try something new.
    What do you think about rev or auramancer with a tag? :/
    ready for toxic shot! :3

    Go necro. Be one of us. You will be judged hated etc, but you can enjoy the farm.

    As for rev, I approve. It's fun - so many choices, pirateship/melee boon ball/ something in between. It's so easy to lead in herald jalis/ or renegade alacrity.

    As for auramancer, yes. It's op. I like it too for personal sustain. And you have your stab too. You are currently the king of anti condi. With aura shouts Regen anti condi :)

    I submit rev is the only one class that does it all. Seriously from healing to range to boon corrupt. I am surprised not many people use the class more.

    And tempest is fun. You can even just go earth water earth water earth water and it's great.

    I wish I was better at ele. All I know is to keep self alive and keep team alive. I don't know how to spike with it.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    Chronos are good against pugs. For they rarely have stab. And are easily pulled by focus 4. Try it. You don't even have to be a chrono, even base mesmer is fine,

    It's like dropping focus four in front of the enemy team, then pull and drop the range spikes.

    Easily countered by an organized team with decent stab rotation (which is rare). And it's like asking for stab 1 stab 2. And of course there's the solution to focus the enemy commander to kill them. (The dragon hunter solution)

    Hardest commander I've faced is still a firebrand who boon balls and who's pugs are fearless.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    Maybe the NA meta is different, because on EU 99% of commanders seem to run firebrand and boonball meta, very few guilds attempts portalbombs because it almost always result in a necro counterbomb that instantly kills anyone coming through. Not saying it doesnt happen, just that its rare. Barely even see chronos at all.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • I've actually commanded a few times on a Staff Auramancer. Granted, it was a makeshift build made using PVE Harriers instead of Minstrel, so I ran the protection build (Earth, Water, Tempest) instead of another one. I think it went quite well, in spite of not being that good of a commander.

    The strategy is simple: Magnetic Aura is busted, so I maxed out magnetic aura uptime. a I had 4 sources with Earth 3, Earth Overload, Aftershock, and Rebound. Spamming those skills as much as possible while in combat made me incredibly frustrating to fight against, and I would use Earth 4, Earth 5, and Air 5 to stop melee advances before they reached us. The shouts, overloads, and auras gave everyone plenty of might, protection, and heals. The additional benefit is that it also kept enemies debuffed, because they'd constantly get reflected, chilled, burned, and occasionally stunned every time they tried to attack us. The Earth Traitline made me nigh immune to conditions, and gave me a lot of endurance to dodge around.

    The Auramancer doesn't have a lot of unique tricks to use for a squad. It just has good fundamentals. The auras affect a wide area and stick to players, so your squad will be well buffed, well defended, and well healed while running an auramancer. Something to note is that there is no one auramancer build. Each trait line gives different bonuses to auras, and you pick whichever one you want depending on what the squad needs or whatever the meta is:

    Fire: Take this in a condi-heavy meta. Smothering Auras cleanses. Blinding Ashes is also solid defensive utility.
    Air: Take this to give everyone Swiftness and Fury. The only defensive utility this line gives is Lightning Rod, which spreads weakness. Probably the worst of the bunch.
    Earth: This gives protection, and also small amount of stability. This has the best personal defenses.

    The jury is out on the best weapon to use. I went with staff largely because I'm familiar with it. It just made sense to bring the long-range weapon. That said, I haven't tested out any of the X/Warhorn variants.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    Maybe the NA meta is different, because on EU 99% of commanders seem to run firebrand and boonball meta, very few guilds attempts portalbombs because it almost always result in a necro counterbomb that instantly kills anyone coming through. Not saying it doesnt happen, just that its rare. Barely even see chronos at all.

    Mmm... I wonder if there's a floating gvg of na 15 v 15 eu. Any recent visitors in eu from na with recorded fight ?

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    Tiers for commanding go something like this
    S+ Tier (Nothing else comes close)
    Firebrand
    A Tier (Stab, boons, cleanse/Superspeed at varying amounts)
    Retri Herald
    Scrapper
    Normal Guardian
    B Tier (Useful, but commanders shouldn't be the one to play these due to lack of survivability/stab)
    Chronomancer
    Tempest
    .....
    D Tier (Weird self booner, useless in fight himself)
    Soulbeast
    ...
    ...
    Z tier (Runs around frantically on battlefield doing his own thing)
    Any Warrior spec
    Any Thief spec

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander, scout, innovator
    Social Experiment [sX] leader
    Desolation+Alt
    Diamond Legend

  • hobotnicax.7918hobotnicax.7918 Member ✭✭✭

    Soulbeast. It, just, works.

  • jul.7602jul.7602 Member ✭✭✭

    In all honesty, you can command on literally anything nowadays, it's not a big deal. I've tagged on Burn DH, Zerker rev, FB ect. Each class generally has their ups and down.

    Most popular
    Chronomancer: Lots of invulns, can call your own veils and portals.
    Firebrand: Can manage your own stab. Very survivable.
    Spellbreaker: Can call your own winds

    Other things
    Revs/burndh: Feels more intuitive for a pirate ship focus since you can see your own range
    Scourge: No real reason to drive on this unless you really felt the need to know exact timers on wells
    Thief: No real reason to drive on this at all.
    Ele/scrapper/ranger: Not many reasons to drive on this either.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I commanded before as a Daredevil.

    Just pick something yu like my dude.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    Maybe the NA meta is different, because on EU 99% of commanders seem to run firebrand and boonball meta, very few guilds attempts portalbombs because it almost always result in a necro counterbomb that instantly kills anyone coming through. Not saying it doesnt happen, just that its rare. Barely even see chronos at all.

    Well, I didn't say portal bomb... That would be a utility slot taken away from survival I imagine.
    I said the most challenging drivers to snipe are on Chrono. Maybe THAT is the reason they're on Chrono xD

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Saleerian.2973 said:
    psst soulbeast is actually really good for portal bombs

    Last time I saw a guild portalbomb they got totally squished in turn. Not really sure if it should be commander thats risking such manouvers either... because the second to last time I saw a guild attempting a portal bomb, the mesmer went splat.

    NA? I am literaly immortal on my chrono a we do really fast bombs

    Yeah I'm wondering about these guys too.
    The toughest commanders to kill I know are all on Chrono.

    Maybe the NA meta is different, because on EU 99% of commanders seem to run firebrand and boonball meta, very few guilds attempts portalbombs because it almost always result in a necro counterbomb that instantly kills anyone coming through. Not saying it doesnt happen, just that its rare. Barely even see chronos at all.

    Well, I didn't say portal bomb... That would be a utility slot taken away from survival I imagine.
    I said the most challenging drivers to snipe are on Chrono. Maybe THAT is the reason they're on Chrono xD

    you're not wrong :) chrono has a lot of invuls if done right ^^ and is tanky if you use minstrels or nomads. what is a commander if not a thing that shouldn't die

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.