Unpopular opinion: Icebrood Saga is bad — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Unpopular opinion: Icebrood Saga is bad

Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 25, 2020 in Living World

The first map was great, apart from that I personally see not much good in the Saga.
The story is boring as hell, masteries are meaningless, and the achievements... an overwhelming amount of them are just grind.
At least i would have hoped for a few new enemy types, but not even that. Just the same old in green, red or blue.
Bjora marches in design is really weak compared to last season's maps. Drizzlewood is a bit better, especially to coast side, beside that it's not interesting at all.
And then the strike missions... I'd rather have new dungeons where I can at least travel through a map than just speedfarm a single boss for a billion times.
I make an exception for the Steel & Fire mission, that one was really great.

I know a lot of people rooted for the charr "campaign", but imo it offers nothing special. Yay, we now have charr lore, but what about it really?
What did we learn of them? We have 4 legions and they don't feel distinct at all. Not even on a political level. One of them went rogue and is evil.
Let's go chase him down, that's about it.

And the norn? Isn't this supposed to be about them aswell? Seems like they only get a really tiny spotlight in this whole thing.

Yeah, overall I'm quite disapointed with Icebrood Saga so far.
It's also the first time I really feel like this. There had been weak moments in the past of this game, but this season is really really bad.



  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How is it unpopular when most people who comment on it say the same?
    I've personally enjoyed it a lot. I just wish each chapter was longer to do. It takes like 1 hour to do each one at most.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:
    You can't tell the difference between the warrior caste, the builder caste, the spy caste, and the magic caste? and the final surrender and subsequent integration of the traitorous and hated mages undermined immediately by a new rebellion of the disenfranchised (and a new war on two fronts) isn't doing anything for you?

    Well, "to each his own", I guess...

    well, i can tell, but you don't feel any of that. At this point you could mash them all together, would be the same thing.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree. The prologue and drizzlewood coast are great, but the rest are quite bad in my opinion. New masteries are dull, and bjora marches is small and monotonous. The story in the bjora marches really doesn't interest me even though I tried hard to complete it.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Not really an unpopular opinion. There is a lot wrong with this season. At a mechanical perspective, it isn't accurate to anything they said it was going to be.

    Masteries are being watered down in their importance to the game as a whole.

    The short episodes clearly being half of a full with the two part maps.

    Strike missions and the prophet shard system being repetitive and unengaging grind.

    What "Expansion level content" even means, with no clear definition from Anet. So it means nothing.

    I'm not going to bother giving examples of how to fix these anymore, because Anet knows how to learn and fix. They just refuse to go back and undo what is broken.

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Not really an unpopular opinion. There is a lot wrong with this season. At a mechanical perspective, it isn't accurate to anything they said it was going to be.

    Masteries are being watered down in their importance to the game as a whole.

    The short episodes clearly being half of a full with the two part maps.

    Strike missions and the prophet shard system being repetitive and unengaging grind.

    What "Expansion level content" even means, with no clear definition from Anet. So it means nothing.

    I'm not going to bother giving examples of how to fix these anymore, because Anet knows how to learn and fix. They just refuse to go back and undo what is broken.

    Masteries haven't been a relevant grind or actual content since early HoT. They listened to people who wanted to log into a game and have everything already within 5 minutes so we don't have sidegrade char progression via masteries anymore. The system should honestly just be deleted as I don't even notice it's existence since it takes like a day, at most, to get all masteries for an entire content update done..

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    Masteries haven't been a relevant grind or actual content since early HoT. They listened to people who wanted to log into a game and have everything already within 5 minutes so we don't have sidegrade char progression via masteries anymore. The system should honestly just be deleted as I don't even notice it's existence since it takes like a day, at most, to get all masteries for an entire content update done..


    People not wanting to spend hundreds of hours and is fine with a few dozen is not the same as 5 minutes.

    The rate of getting a mastery done is irrelevant to how useful it is. Masteries shouldn't take weeks to complete unless its something as important as a like Glider.

  • I found the story interesting enough but the masteries are not worth the bother. I’m doing them but just as something to do and to see my mastery numbers go up. /shrug.

    As said above, the masteries take too long to charge up and then after they’re charged they pop up randomly and there’s no guarantee that they can be used on the mob you’re fighting. In addition they replace the Waystation special action. Which means they can replace something useful with something useless. Very poor design. They should take less time to charge up and you should be able to choose which one appears on your special action bar and when.

    Be careful what you ask for
    ANet might give it to you.

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  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm of the mind that I've been looking for expansion level content for a rather long time in that saga, and have only found some recently with the latest map. It took time for Masteries to be usable outside of the original map, and even then, it's a limited fashion (less so the skills, more the way you need to use a 1 use consumable to get access to them). I've noticed a very high amount of skins being made available, which raises the level of content, and does indeed help. The map metas for the first time, different in an overworld map, and that's a neat addition.

    I'm naturally biased toward charrs, so obviously maps focusing on them are likely to raise my interest.

    I am still extremely sour over the RNG for endless combat tonics. I dont understand the point. Werent they going to placate people who ask for new races with them ? What's the point if they're so rare barely anyone have gotten one ?

    Overall, I believe progress have been made in a good way, not yet to an expansion level, but I can certainly appreciate the team's effort, and watching them get more involved is interesting. Contrary to before, I am watching Icebrood saga with interest now

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding mastery abilities: as long as the game is monetized the way it is, they will remain filler only used on specific maps. The system of unlocking episodes by going online when they are released, and requiring payment to unlock them at a later time if you missed them, is stifling the game's potential. On every possible level.

    Other than that, the Icebrood Saga has some interesting story moments, and some very good voice acting. I like that we face something different for a change, like Bangar, instead of fighting another Elder Dragon directly and I want to see what happens with Jormag. Although I like the new direction in the story and some of the new characters, from a gameplay perspective it's been very bad. To be honest, during some of the story instances I got bored multiple times and considered quitting, the system of "filling bars by doing events in order to progress the story", makes me logout and not care at all to play the story on another character. I can understand why they need to pad the runtime so much, otherwise the story would be done in 10 minutes, it just takes longer than I find "acceptable", especially for repeats of the same story! The un-interesting fights (weak boss mechanics for example) don't help either.

    But more than the story, the Icebrood Saga was supposed to be something more than just another regular living world season, yet I just don't see it. It feels weaker than previous seasons, with less content, less new mechanics and ideas, less of everything.

    For all those hating Bjora Marches: although I didn't find the map amazing or anything (and Drakkar is a giant HP sponge with no challenge) I really enjoyed the light puzzles, because I like puzzles and those were a bit more than doing pixel perfect jumps.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    Since start ls4, it's a letdown. Was very fan of ls3 and the different themed maps... lake doric, draconis, bloodstone fen and very nice siren's landing. Ls4, I stopped cared after sandswept. Ls5, I only like grothmar and drizzlewood. Bjora gave me nightmare flashback from thunderhead. Just replace branded by icebrood. Here you go. I'm already expecting next snowy maps to be bad. But I have ton of hope for centaur land shown on trailer, promising to be closer to core tyria in appearance.
    Cons to me:
    -> Strikes, bjora, almorra and steel warband end so story. Errors of ls4 with joko and aurene are repeated. Having ton of war supplies, no real sink.

    Shiny links, take a look!
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  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    I think people is overreacting. Found the story pretty interesting so far, but yes definitely not on the level of expansion like content. But I daresay that current virus crisis mightve affected the level of content. However, as I see it, the real meat of the current episode is the meta battle and I enjoy to play it.

    Drizzlewood coast is far superior to Silverwastes and a far more colorful place. It is one of the best metas yet and not super spread out like the hot ones. The battle following back and forth much more frequently than Silverwastes.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭

    Thread needs a title change to popular opinion. Does not help that for 2 episodes in a row ends with a woman in a frig plot point.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Visions of the past was hands down the best thing to come out of LW so far, at least giving us some okay repeatable semi- engaging/hardcore content (or rather making it more accessible and adding a reward structure to it), and it wasn't even a "proper" LW patch.

    The rest has always been filler to me, littered with economy breaking grind maps in a desperate attempt to keep players engaged with a meaningless money/achievement grind while waiting for proper content (Expansions/Elite Specs, Raids, Fractals etc.) with engaging mechanics, new systems that drive the game forward and adding new layers or keeping the game fresh with new assets, mobs types/animations to learn and so on.

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  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't call it bad. I think the Charr / Jormag plot line is way more interesting than Kralkatoric was, and maybe on par with Joko and the scarab plague (Joko was such a delicious villian - even Aurene agrees!) but at the same time, I feel the whole "Norn" thing got left behind with Episode 1+2. For me anyways, the Saga is about Bangar leading the Charr to ruin but chasing after / becoming subject to Jormag, and what Ryland is going to do about it. Braham, his bow, the spirits, all seem rather minor to the story for me. This is about a charismatic demogogue leading his people, and Tyria, into potential catastrophe.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    Like with almost everything regarding story and lore in GW2, what we get is (unfortunately) very superficial - there is no depth to it. I can see how that turns some players off.

    The strike missions I personally like a lot because they aren't as time consuming as raids. Dungeons get as repetitive as strike missions, but the fact that they consume more time keeps me from playing them more often. I rather have and am more likely to play repetitive content that takes less than 5 minutes to finish than repetitive content that takes up to 30 minutes.

    I also liked the Icebrood Saga maps we've got so far. Especially the Bjora Marches have a very tense atmosphere.

  • Tails.9372Tails.9372 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    I don't have any problems with the story but that's because I'm not really overly demanding in that regard. However the maps just bore me to death, not just since season 5 but pretty much since Thunderhead Peaks. I already had enough of the desert theme after PoF but at least Istan had a decent meta with GH. But everything after Jahai Bluffs just makes me want to play something else with Dragonfall being the worst offender here.

    @otto.5684 said:
    Not much to be said about strikes. If you have established systems, do not create a new ones.

    I have to disagree here, there is nothing wrong with creating new systems in order to reach parts of the playerbase the already existing content failed to reach. Issue here is that strikes didn't really do that (nor was that ever their intention).

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    For me the story started strong but fizzled out real quick. I hope it picks back up soon.
    I liked every map so far apart from the new one, there's just too much going on everywhere you look which makes sense for what it is but not something i'm fond off.
    The Masteries I feel like are kind of useless, It's just locking things away behind them and needlessly adding essences to monsters.

  • Svez Poizon XD.5268Svez Poizon XD.5268 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    Story makes sense but it is very short and fast in every episode. It use to be army vs army battles, cataclysm all around(whole world map in the ice with snow and storms), not killing some mechanical charr car. We "learned" something about raven and other aspects but there are not really animals or anything after that. Norns are minor in this story. We are hunting Bengar, he was next to us many times, same with ryland.....still no execution, no death. It is getting boring and looks like "we are hunting you but hey we reached you and we let you go" and at the end those dies in pointless way. Every character should be more popular and its death to be glorious, to pull feelings from us players like it happened for Aurene. Like Almora died and none even care, some other charr dies, none cares. If Norns were in the story and died, none would care as well. Like why are there just Logan and Kasmeer, why aren't there whole human army or Sylvari or Asuras.

    We need epic fights like those in "Lord of the rings", some medival eternal fights where some fighters become heros and some heros become legends that stay in the past. I am personally disappointed to hunt some big characters with few other characters then to see them to talk instead of instant fighting/getting in conflict.
    When player play the story, it should have in its memory whole thing, to show some feelings, to wish to play a new episode.

    Maps are fine, events are fine, everywhere is something happening. Problem is that every minor part of the map feels scripted, you always know what will happen right there and how hard it gonna be. That is wrong, if whole map was a battlefield where 2 big armies fight on multiple fronts 24/7 it would make playing on that map interesting. It would make repeatable content useful. When new episode come and when some villians/heros dies or w/e happens, old maps should change(at least for player who completed the story and the map). It is hard to happen and to make but it would make better experience with these stories. Just ask yourself why are Dragonstand,Dragonfall, Auric Basin, Domain of Istan(before its destruction).still very good maps. These maps have some kind of progression, some lanes. It used to happen on new map drizzelwood coast but what happened is scripted thing and it is not working(we shouldn't be able to drop on other side of the map). We shouldn't have ability to move where we want when we want. In Dragonstand to complete one achievement, you have to do meta event, to unlock some path, all lanes have to succeed in order to get there, it brings big will from everyone to fight epic battle, to play like team. Drizzlewood brings nothing to me, like i can solo drop there or here.

    Problem with Bjora Marches is that all events always happen on same spot of the map and those repeat 1000 times per day. It is cool that everywhere is something happening, but when you see same thing that died 10 minutes ago...it is bad. When Drakkar came, it was like the best meta event with few first runs. After 10 runs, it became boring and terrible.

    We don't need scripted map nor scripted stories, we want maps and stories that have multiple options for each thing to happen. Example: Drakkar meta event could go as it went, but what if Drakkar not wake up from the ice and we have to drill the ice to reach him then to mess with its dreams or w/e, Or what if Drakkar escaped the ice before we reached him to surface and start bringing destruction all around.

    Icebrood saga is not that bad but it is not good either(These are my opinions). Hope devs will work better for Primordius and Cantha.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would not call this an unpopular opinion. I am hoping things get better.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I have never played MMO with good story but is average too much to ask?

    FFXIV and SWToR have good stories imo.

    SWToR it's mostly about the individual class story from my experience, after that the generic stories were pretty meh.

    FFXIV is great story (With slight exception to 2.1-3.0 which involved a lot of fluff and obnoxious fetch quests, but after getting to 3.0 it goes on very strong with many people finding the 3.0 story the best in the game) and in fact, the story of XIV is pretty much the only reason to play the game given its actual game systems suck (Combat is flat, repetitive and boring, side content is grindy and unrewarding, PvP is forgettable, Raids are pathetic outside of Savage where they're just Simon Says where you simply push your predetermined rotation while walking out of the bad circles)

    But yeah, the key is to have actual characters. With character development that changes them over time with good reason (Not like Braham and his 180 flip from adoring the Commander to "UR NOT MY REAL MOM!" mega-emo phase). Whom react to situations like actual people, not as walking plot devices.

    Also, it helps not to write in Mary Sue's like Aurene (Or Thrall AKA Green Jesus in Warcraft)

    Cat: Meow.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Strikes have been the highlight for me personally. Strong replayable content with little to no additional work since its basically all reused assets from lw story or maps, id love a cm for these but ehh.

    Story i feel like is going abit slow but then again thats prob to be expected with an expansion in the works.

    The maps are a mixed bag and the way they wejt about the achievements this time around has been a kitten.

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    Definitely agree with OP on this one. My main problems with the Saga:

    • The story has been extremely predictable (Possibly because the trailers showed too much while the story is moving at a slow pace each episode) and there have been close to no twists that I did not see coming from the start of each episode based on the trailers, unlike most of the pre-Saga episodes, which often had at least one twist many players did not see coming.

    • The achievements are really grindy (20x or more for events in Bjora), many require competition among players to complete (target shooting in Grothmar), both of which were much less prevalent in prior seasons, which had a lot of more challenging, one-time, more satisfying story-based achievements instead. I stopped bothering with LW achievements after Grothmar because they require almost full completion for the meta, which requires at least one or two heavy grind achievements to be completed, for a very small reward. It is very obvious these were just made to pad playing time, which just makes them seem less worthwhile/satisfying to do.

    • The maps since Bjora, while pretty to look at as usual, are boring and I have no reason to go back to them after finishing map completion. Maybe it's just because I don't feel motivated enough to do the achievements (see above point).

    On the other hand, the strike mission and prologue were really enjoyable and have repeatable group content that I go back to often.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26, 2020

    I find it funny that people seem to dislike IBS.

    Icebrood Saga, so far, has been my favorite living world season.

    • The slower pace of the story means everything gets developed more, rather then the constant stream of "introduce a new character -> kill them off the next episode" break neck pace we saw previously.
    • The maps that get released with each episode are smaller, but have nearly the same amount of events as the LWS3/4 maps did, making them far more packed with content, giving me more reason to stay on them longer.
    • We got a lot, and are getting more, Norn lore. Lots of stuff about the spirits, and Asgeir.
    • Likewise, we are finally getting more content about the Charr's broken society, other then just more flame legion vs everyone else
    • Jormag's more manipulative approach had less to less mindless "samshy smashy the dragon minions" narratives, a welcome relief over previous stories which usually just ended up being 4 maps of "fight dragon minions"

    Strikes are useless, just like all of Anet's attempts at "hard" content have been(Dungeons, Fractals, Raids), but pretty much everything else is a big step up over past LW seasons IMO.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    4. Strike missions - the loot boxes you get from doing the 3 crystal weekly turn in are generally just a few pieces of unidentified gear. The prophet shard system seems needlessly convoluted and extravagant. I'm not sure why they can't just have ONE color of prophet shards.

    The 3 different colors instead of one lets them sneak in an extra week of timegating for things you can buy with the crystals unless you really want to grind the strikes during the week that matches the color you want. It is 1 extra week instead of 2 because of the conversion available.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People have different tastes. Fascinating.

  • Adzekul.3104Adzekul.3104 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with the OP. Season 5 is very uninteresting. All new season 5 content (story, strike missions, masteries, achievement grindiness) except the visual appeal of the maps is what I am talking about.

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    Maps are ok.
    Story I don't really care that much. The way it is presented I think it is getting better with every expansion and LW. Content wise well I never liked story in GW2.
    Drakkar meta is good. Not the best but good. Grothmar metas are good. Drizzlewood meta is good.
    Strikes are ok. They could be a bit more interesting just not as long as Forging steel. Cold War really is boring.
    They are releasing a lot of nice looking skins that can be acquired in game which is cool if you are into it.
    Masteries are the worst up to now. They really have no meaning, no real purpose. Like someone said just something they added cuz they needed to add it. And acquiring the charges before you can actually use it is really annoying and useless.
    I like the puzzles and jumping puzzle.

  • Zephyr.5382Zephyr.5382 Member ✭✭✭

    I've never been overly excited about the story in this game. I feel like the quality of writing has just generally declined across all of popular media (i.e., games, movies, TV) lately. Exceptions are ones that are based on books, like The Expanse and Game of Thrones seasons 1-4 (or 5?); you just notice a stark contrast in quality (pun intended).

  • Divirel.4953Divirel.4953 Member ✭✭

    Drizzlewood is the only thing I appreciate, as I mostly am there if I'm not in WvW, so I love it.

    Holy Helmets of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:
    I do not even know how the masteries works!

    You need to stack 30 per color to have its respective essence available for CC (and damage) -- simple.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    I do not care that the story is lame. All game stories are pretty lame. I love reading, and have thousands of books, so maybe I am spoiled by real stories. Game 'stories' are just a tool to progress the critter killing. I am fine with that.

    I think my main disappointment with this chapter is that the prologue was so good. Not the story, but the area, the events. everything about it was fun. It is honestly the best thing I have seen in any Guild Wars since the pre-searing (the pre-searing is the best video game of all time). The problem is that with that great a start - there was nowhere to go but down...

    I found Bjora to be very boring and Drizzlewood looks like something they slapped together over the weekend. But, it is free content, so no worries.

  • Klinch.2964Klinch.2964 Member ✭✭

    Huh, I'm surprised so many people are saying Grothmar Valley is the good part of the season. It is the definition of scheduled event grinding where players don't really have any control of the game, which I absolutely hate and find very boring. Feels like the game is playing you at that point (Boy did I hate farming amalgamated gemstones).

    Grothmar Valley is by far the weakest of the 3 maps so far. But I'm liking the saga overall, story is good for an mmo. And much more interesting than some of their previous stories so far.