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Unpopular opinion: Icebrood Saga is bad

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  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, overall I'm quite disapointed with Icebrood Saga so far.
    It's also the first time I really feel like this. There had been weak moments in the past of this game, but this season is really really bad.

    I think there just isn't a clear enough vision from those in charge so that they can effectively lead their teams into developing logical content. So Icebrood saga is or is not LW season 5? WHY is that even a thing to consider when they been adamant about their LW model the entire life of the game.

    Realistic and unfortunately I'm wondering if Icebrood Saga is just their interim project and asset they can scramble together while they make the next expansion and also the side effects of them losing all those employees. They have probably had to shift so many things internally and making any kind of gaming content does take a long time. We should at least have some sympathy and understanding for them since those layoffs.

    They essence manipulation system is ok. I don't hate it. It's just a bit clunky and with the timers and required amounts makes it not sustainable to go after every time you come to the match. If it was optimized then I think people would go after it. Killing 10 enemies and you get that buff that lasts for 30/1hr? Great! Killing 30 enemies and it lasts only 15 min? Not so great. Instead of each attack being a KAMEHAMEHA I thought it would be more interesting if each was unique like red being the beam, green being a targeted AOE and blue being a small cone. It would have been interesting and creepy if the Whispers said stuff according to your profession and maybe some of your past accomplishments. IMAGINE Jormag whispering "what's the point of saving children if you can't even save yourself...." IF you had the Extra Life AP 0_0
    They should have had the forest area be like the underground labyrinth area in Silverwastes where you could be killed instantly because of XYZ.

    Drakkar is a great meta after they optimized it and when they add VO in Drizzlewood it'll be even better. I've said this before and I'll say it again...its ALL about the leaders and management. If we can't even get the Game Director that left LAST November to say goodbye that gives me pause about what other lacks of communication are going on behind the scenes.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    I do not even know how the masteries works!

    You need to stack 30 per color to have its respective essence available for CC (and damage) -- simple.

    The thing is it can take a while to get to 30 stacks and in between fights and then all that effort for a 15 min buff but only towards one type of enemy? Those are great mechanics for the Drakkar fight and meta but for PVE its not very feasible unless you grind for 45 min. They should revamp that system and you receive time on the buff from the pickups initially instead of requiring the stacks. I think they did course correct and that's why the latest essence manipulation skill can be towards any enemy.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I have never played MMO with good story but is average too much to ask?

    FFXIV and SWToR have good stories imo.

    SWToR it's mostly about the individual class story from my experience, after that the generic stories were pretty meh.

    FFXIV is great story (With slight exception to 2.1-3.0 which involved a lot of fluff and obnoxious fetch quests, but after getting to 3.0 it goes on very strong with many people finding the 3.0 story the best in the game) and in fact, the story of XIV is pretty much the only reason to play the game given its actual game systems suck (Combat is flat, repetitive and boring, side content is grindy and unrewarding, PvP is forgettable, Raids are pathetic outside of Savage where they're just Simon Says where you simply push your predetermined rotation while walking out of the bad circles)

    But yeah, the key is to have actual characters. With character development that changes them over time with good reason (Not like Braham and his 180 flip from adoring the Commander to "UR NOT MY REAL MOM!" mega-emo phase). Whom react to situations like actual people, not as walking plot devices.

    Also, it helps not to write in Mary Sue's like Aurene (Or Thrall AKA Green Jesus in Warcraft)

    FF story is awful, you have lego characters and some of the worst content padding in mmo business
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I have never played MMO with good story but is average too much to ask? The base game story in GW2 was nothing special but at least it didn't suck as bad as Aurene.
    After all, Aurene is not the commanders pet, the commander is Aurenes pet.
    Aurene has all the power and all the information and the commander just bumbles around, hoping not to accidentally doom Tyria. The commander just continues to bumble around, mostly wasting time as Aurene knows what to do but tells you nothing. After all, a pet needs something to do to keep it entertained and of course, out of the way while the master does things that actually matter.
    If Aurene leaves for the story, it still won't make it go away, anet made it too important.
    Not to mention the prophecy BS where, instead of doing it because you want, you do it because "it's the way it's meant to be". No one wants to be a mindless puppet following some destiny/fate, right?
    What i'm saying is, it can't possibly get any worse than that.

    SWTOR has some great class stories
    and on the bad side, this game is still far from the cringefest of BDO and the sleuth of of eastern mmos
    prey that it never reaches those depths

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    winter theme is awful it's too depressing
    pof was super sunny also grothmar and coast are nice though

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I have never played MMO with good story but is average too much to ask? The base game story in GW2 was nothing special but at least it didn't suck as bad as Aurene.
    After all, Aurene is not the commanders pet, the commander is Aurenes pet.
    Aurene has all the power and all the information and the commander just bumbles around, hoping not to accidentally doom Tyria. The commander just continues to bumble around, mostly wasting time as Aurene knows what to do but tells you nothing. After all, a pet needs something to do to keep it entertained and of course, out of the way while the master does things that actually matter.
    If Aurene leaves for the story, it still won't make it go away, anet made it too important.
    Not to mention the prophecy BS where, instead of doing it because you want, you do it because "it's the way it's meant to be". No one wants to be a mindless puppet following some destiny/fate, right?
    What i'm saying is, it can't possibly get any worse than that.

    SWTOR has some great class stories
    and on the bad side, this game is still far from the cringefest of BDO and the sleuth of of eastern mmos
    prey that it never reaches those depths

    Now that you reminded me, SWTOR wasn't too bad, exept the usual light side or dark side stuff (i played it many years ago so not sure about today). I also agree that FFXIV story is terrible. Just another blank slate who does as they are told, a mindless mook.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The real issue becomes that living world has ALWAYS been hot garbage since its inception, it never ... heck lets be honest the "story" in this game has never really been that well written or deep. That is the curse of all MMO type games, the story most of the time will fall flat especially if the gameplay is good which luck as it may is the case here where the combat engine is superb. This saga thus far has been a two pronged pile of BS and I feel like its honestly portions of an expansion we would of gotten, and filler to keep us occupied for a year or two while cantha is crafted.

    1. Way too much focus on the charr who have NEVER taken a back-seat In the narrative and have always been a front-runner in the conflicts and thus have never been done dirty really. They have had SOOOO much time in the lime light between BOTH games and its almost insane that people feel they are not flushed out, when in reality they have had some of the most developing moments granted to them. They are this games equivalent to WoW's Variant of Orc in that they have come so very far, and this saga should of had them be in the background and take a step back to let ANOTHER race whom yes I am biased too get some love.
    2. Norn are by extension of my first point the unwanted baby of A-net they appeared in Eye of the north and had some lore but not much, then miraculously became player characters in this game. But they have yet to even be flushed out or given their "Viking Saga" in which they go on some epic battle or adventure with dark themes, and truly dire states in which to fight for. This will be all we get for them, this saga that is and whatever it might do and thus far it has been underwhelming and as a norn player I feel a bit slighted. You killed Eir, who could of played a larger roll considering Zojja and Logan are kinda not even applicable to the story at hand and yet you murdered her to make room for her son who has been a dumpster fire of a character. You destroy norn lore, you poop all over us every chance you have by making all these changes to what we knew rather than adding to it in any meaningful form. The last real addition of worth we had was Asgeirs journal but that is IT and that is a kitten shame considering how rich between the norn, kodan and jotuun you would have for a story. I mean Im pretty sure I could write you a better story and ya know what here... Ill give you a simplified version of a better narrative that could of tapped into the eldritch shennagians that you want, while also letting the norn have center stage.

    The air thickens as the darkness of the north encloses upon the lands of the south, Kralkatorik lays defeated and Elona united in rebuilding their people and culture. But yet shadows now lurk upon the horizons as calls to battle have sounded within hoelbrak. An ancient enemy has not only arisen in the far north, the Jotuun desperate to cling to the might of the days of old has found an artifact. One linked to the mighty ice dragon, they believe it is the key to restoration but truly it is the begining of the damnation and their self proclaimed king has raided blood legion lands and murdered soldiers causing the mighty Bangar Ruinbringer to seek retribution. However vengeance has clouded his heart and now he seeks not only to purge the jotuun but all non-charr. The artifacts corrupting influence the Fang of Svanir has claimed the minds of not one but two leaders. War has broken out and the norn have sounded their war-horns in an attempt to rally as meany warriors to the banner of Knut whitebear as they seek to end the conflict before it gets out of hand. With the mists breaking into our realm from the cracks of kralkatorik's rampage the god realms have been anchored to our world. Through them a gateway to the great unknown that we have yet to explore has been opened, and unspeakable horrors begin to appear acrossed tyria as the darkness from beyond also begins to push forth surging into the purity of tyria. Besieged on all sides and without hope Dragons watch and the warriors who have fought to preserve this world hear only two things, the distant laughter of malignant voices just beyond their sight. And the voice of one thought of been an enemy calling out to them? Jormag. The dragon of Ice and snow who has heard the call of the newly re-born aurene, its whispers serenade the commander and their allies in an attempt to open lines of communication between it and Us.. But is it our ally or our enemy? Is there a true enemy? Who can we trust. Our guildies have begun to question us, turn on us and the governments of the races deny us help. All that stands between tyria and certain annihilation are the steadfast norn, the scattered and ill-prepared charr and the whispers... from the north.

    Its not hard, its not something that is like rocket science. The narrative was stronger in the prologue and then Bjora despite how much I like that map happened, and the narrative began to unravel and fall apart. And now it feels like its just going to be S4 again, but with less and more recycled assets all the while we have to wait until cantha (Another year or more out) before E-specs or anything really exciting happens. The lore has been all over the place since day one, and at this point I find myself coming back for the gameplay loop.... but it would be nice if they put the same effort they put into guild wars 1's narrative into this ones. Because Anything after and heck even prophecies is better than ANYTHING this game has produced and that is based on side content and main content.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    Also, why was this thread "closed" by Fire Attunement.9835? It's not really closed anyway and not like there is anything bad going on in here so, why?

  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    Also, why was this thread "closed" by Fire Attunement.9835? It's not really closed anyway and not like there is anything bad going on in here so, why?

    It got moved to the Living World Forum section and closed on the Discussion section.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @vier.1327 said:
    I do not even know how the masteries works!

    You need to stack 30 per color to have its respective essence available for CC (and damage) -- simple.

    The thing is it can take a while to get to 30 stacks

    Yes, in the open world, this is a truly annoying mastery. It's only practical if you spend a lot of time on a map and during Strike Missions, of course.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    @Poormany.4507 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    Also, why was this thread "closed" by Fire Attunement.9835? It's not really closed anyway and not like there is anything bad going on in here so, why?

    It got moved to the Living World Forum section and closed on the Discussion section.

    I purposefuly didn't post it on the Living World Forum because for me it's more about what is to be avoided in the future. It's not specifically about the LS itself, rather than its mechanics and its formalities. But I see now how maybe my wording in the title isn't chosen precise enough, and so I'm not surprised it got moved.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maikimaik.1974 said:
    They just straight up lied about the "expansion-like features".

    I agree, but I think they had more stuff planned, but are now holding it back for the next expansion.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:
    winter theme is awful it's too depressing
    pof was super sunny also grothmar and coast are nice though

    On the other hand, i love winter both in games and in real life. If it's depressing to you that is too bad, i want more ice and snow.

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Koen.1327 said:
    winter theme is awful it's too depressing
    pof was super sunny also grothmar and coast are nice though

    On the other hand, i love winter both in games and in real life. If it's depressing to you that is too bad, i want more ice and snow.

    ye im the opposite, guess i had my luck with pof :)

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    Masteries are being watered down in their importance to the game as a whole.

    As someone who does not PvE often and only just began PoF/finished its prerequisite story like a week ago, I see this as only a good thing. Being unable to even participate in new content due to the gating of stuff behind masteries and mounts due to their overbearing importance is a really bad feeling. I don't want to be there doing the content; I just want new skins and stat options made available.

    I think the mastery system is one of the weakest elements of the game's expansions altogether. It really doesn't change gameplay from the "Go here and do this event" ktrain mentality at all; it just adds another layer of complexity and gatekeeping behind it.

    I think adding more armor sets and weapons would probably get people more excited than bouncing on mushrooms etc.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    I have never played MMO with good story but is average too much to ask?

    FFXIV and SWToR have good stories imo.

    SWToR it's mostly about the individual class story from my experience, after that the generic stories were pretty meh.

    FFXIV is great story (With slight exception to 2.1-3.0 which involved a lot of fluff and obnoxious fetch quests, but after getting to 3.0 it goes on very strong with many people finding the 3.0 story the best in the game) and in fact, the story of XIV is pretty much the only reason to play the game given its actual game systems suck (Combat is flat, repetitive and boring, side content is grindy and unrewarding, PvP is forgettable, Raids are pathetic outside of Savage where they're just Simon Says where you simply push your predetermined rotation while walking out of the bad circles)

    But yeah, the key is to have actual characters. With character development that changes them over time with good reason (Not like Braham and his 180 flip from adoring the Commander to "UR NOT MY REAL MOM!" mega-emo phase). Whom react to situations like actual people, not as walking plot devices.

    Also, it helps not to write in Mary Sue's like Aurene (Or Thrall AKA Green Jesus in Warcraft)

    FF story is awful, you have lego characters and some of the worst content padding in mmo business
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    FF14's story was great for me, even though I had to force myself to do the required group content in the very beginning. Dunno what lego characters are in this context. Maybe FF7 for PSX with the square hands?
    As for everything on one character: To be fair, making alts is rather disencouraged without a guild/FC to send stuff between your characters, and with how long the personal story is not everyone will be inclined to trudge through it again (or pay for story and level skip potions), understandably.
    But ultimately story and such is personal preference; some simply don't like, care or can't get into it, while others love the story (mainly from Heavensward onwards).

    As for Icebrood saga: I have generally liked GW2 story and am in/back for the story, so this hasn't changed that much. It was probably a "bad" idea to "re-learn" the game with the IB zones. What I found annoying was the general progress bar instead of hearts. Especially the prologue zone bar felt kinda slow to fill before the story would move on. Filling the bar in the last zone was okayish, since the events occur more frequently. OW metas are still the same visual vomit between player character skills and bling-bling and monster attack effects.

  • Angoril.2179Angoril.2179 Member ✭✭
    edited June 27, 2020

    Couldn't agree more. I stopped playing the game shortly after LS4 ep 5 got released, came back for 6 and after quitting the 2nd day of ep 6 got released I thought, how bad can things get from here? Little did I know that anet wanted to challenge that... and they succeeded. I only came back a couple weeks before Visions got released, caught up and the rest played them as they released.

    The story isn't as horrible as it was in the final 2 episodes of LS4 but, it's no more than average. Decent for a MMO, bad compared to anything else. I don't know if it's the management in anet being useless or the writers just not being all that great but the story is fairly mediocre at best throughout the game. Also, stop being lazy. "Do X amount of events to fill this bar" doesn't count as story.

    The maps, for me, have been an absolute disaster. Grothmar is... boring. Doing events on a set schedule and being "forced" to do them in a certain order that anet set is not my definition of fun. Bjora is ok, I guess. I enjoyed exploring that one for the most part and the puzzles were nice. When it comes to the metas, not a fan of the one on the first half of the map since I dislike anything that interferes with me wanting to do something other than the meta. Drakar is on par with almost every other world boss in the game. If there are enough people around, roll your face across the keyboard and you win, otherwise you lose. Nothing interesting to see there either. Visions left me as uninterested as the rest. Was better than I expected story wise but the bar for MMOs is set so low that it's not really an accomplishment. Drizzlewood is by far the worst map this season. Annoying to explore due to the map wide meta and the snipers all over the place, extremely repetitive with no unique events and a horrible final boss fight design, "achievements" that are nothing but grind. At least it has the best voice acting this season. Ok, I may be joking with the last one but I will take no voice acting over lazy Bethesda tactics of having a main character voice throwaway NPCs without changing their voice (like in Grothmar) any day of the week.

    As others have mentioned, the masteries could be missing and nobody would even be able to tell the difference. They are so pointless and they lack so much imagination that I wouldn't be surprised if they went to their local convenience store and with no details asked the people to give them gameplay ideas. Makes me wonder, does that studio have any kind of standards or is everything treated with a "good enough" mentality? Strikes are mediocre. I stopped doing them a couple weeks after Visions launched and haven't touched them since. I just don't see the reason to do them since they aren't really all that much fun and the rewards are about as disappointing as the entire looting system in this game.

    Overall I am not a fan of this season so far... at all. While I didn't believe their promises about expansion level features, given it wasn't the first time anet was promising more than they can deliver, some honesty at least would go a long way. I know personally would be more lenient if they were willing to tell the truth for once instead of treating us like idiots with nothing but empty promises and PR speech twice a year that they address the community. I gave up on the game for the time being, most likely will check the next episode when it gets released but I expect absolutely nothing from it other than what anet does best... the bare minimum.

    Can we be done with LS already? Just create expansions.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    Masteries are being watered down in their importance to the game as a whole.

    As someone who does not PvE often and only just began PoF/finished its prerequisite story like a week ago, I see this as only a good thing. Being unable to even participate in new content due to the gating of stuff behind masteries and mounts due to their overbearing importance is a really bad feeling. I don't want to be there doing the content; I just want new skins and stat options made available.

    I think the mastery system is one of the weakest elements of the game's expansions altogether. It really doesn't change gameplay from the "Go here and do this event" ktrain mentality at all; it just adds another layer of complexity and gatekeeping behind it.

    I think adding more armor sets and weapons would probably get people more excited than bouncing on mushrooms etc.

    I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    As for Icebrood saga: I have generally liked GW2 story and am in/back for the story, so this hasn't changed that much. It was probably a "bad" idea to "re-learn" the game with the IB zones. What I found annoying was the general progress bar instead of hearts. Especially the prologue zone bar felt kinda slow to fill before the story would move on. Filling the bar in the last zone was okayish, since the events occur more frequently. OW metas are still the same visual vomit between player character skills and bling-bling and monster attack effects.

    I want the hearts and more events to return. Each heart is usually a chunk of story but I assume they are trying to have each map be unique or different from others. Variety is attractive.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    there's something wrong with storytelling in GW2. that's been the case for me from the very beginning. I just can't get invested in the lore, factions and characters. all of LS feels like a slog to me. bad voice acting, simpleton characters, and a sort of PG13-ish politically correct feel. the only interesting part about gw2's pve is the open world, which is probably the best in the industry.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    I'm not going to bother giving examples of how to fix these anymore, because Anet knows how to learn and fix. They just refuse to go back and undo what is broken.

    This is literally everything wrong with Anet's devs right now.
    They simply refuse to revert whatever doesn't work, or restore what they unintentionally broke.

    Idk if it's pride or laziness or both but this is probably the single reason why the game has been devolving ever since HoT.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

    Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.

    If by "Most of the story in the start"

    You mean, specifically post 2.1 (The end of the base game) and pre-3.0 (The start of the first expansion)

    Then yes. That particular bit of story sucked.

    But one isolated piece of poor story doesn't invalidate the rest of the story (2.0-2.1 was decent. 3.0-4.0 was excellent, 4.0-5.0 was good, 5.0-date is good)

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner

    I assume you're talking about the Lalafell race. To which you're being hyperbolic.

    latest

    Their heads are not bigger than the rest of their body.

    If anything, Asura have worse head sizes compared to the rest of their body:

    Not to mention, even in real life, there are animals that have disproportionatly large heads for their bodies (Notably, Ant Majors which have huge heads to function as soldiers and heavy laborers)

    But all these is ignoring fantasy aspects, like, the whole "Everything is infused with magic" which could lead to more diverse biologies, such as small creatures with incredibly dense muscle allowing for them to be unusually strong for their size (Explaining how a Lalafell can hit someone with an Axe as hard as say, a Roegadyn)

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    I've seen plenty of professors with six packs. I know tons of nerds who go to the gym and work out.

    It's not that hard to balance things out. Since you don't need to spend 100% of your time on something to be good at it (Heck, working out/training naturally involves downtime as your body needs to rest to repair and regain strength. The perfect time to pick up some books and do some studying)

    Also, nothing stops you from making a muscular beefcake character who is a mage class. Like here in GW2, you can make a Staff Elementalist who's a male norn with maxed out beefcakeness and wears a dress.

    This is before you even account for the plethora of fantasy archetypes that combine magic and martial fighting styles like spellblades (Elementalist and Mesmer are examples), Paladins (Guardian is an example), Deathknights (Reaper is an example)

    Not to mention... What does this even have to do with progression anyway?

    If it's just about "Putting points" into stats... No-one's put points into stats for years. Stats are gained solely from equipping magically enhanced gear, which happens to bypass a lot of the training and time needed to be good at something by providing instant ability. You need to be smart? Equip some intelligence gear, now you're instant Einstien. Need to be strong? Equip some strength gear and now you're instant Hafþór Björnsson. Need to be fast? Equip some agility gear and now you're instant Usain Bolt.

    Even with single class per character, it's still all about gaining stats from gear, not from inherent with the class itself due to "Studying" or "Training" with it. (Example, in GW2 every single class has a baseline of 1000 all stats at level 80. Heck, GW2 doesn't even have divisions between martial and magical ability, "Power" will make you swing a weapon harder as well as make spells stronger)

    Cat: Meow.

  • Tekoneiric.6817Tekoneiric.6817 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

    Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3. They need to revamp the mastery system and as I said before move some to core for new players. Maybe a core mobility mastery track that includes water skate that allows travel toys to travel over water at walking/running speed (to make them more than just fluff items), Pact Launch Pad (with more pads added around), bouncing mushrooms and Oakheart's essence (not usable in JPs). The last two could be spread around Tyria to allow new players to get around better before they earn their mounts.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again. Then a cute catgirl wants to kitten me for some reason."
    Premium story telling there.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again."
    Premium story telling there.

    And Lord of the Rings is "A midget's journey to drop a piece of jewellery into a volcano"

    If you simplify and butcher the entirety of the story, anything sounds bad.

    P.s. "Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again" - You mean apart from literally EVERYONE talking about it CONSTANTLY throughout THE ENTIRE STORY? As it's not only the reason why you are even relevant to the story, but also why you and only you are capable of participating in all the important fights?

    Cat: Meow.

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again. Then a cute catgirl wants to kitten me for some reason."
    Premium story telling there.

    wooooosh

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

    Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3.

    Yeah. I can't even think of any reason why this skill restriction exists, at least for some of the masteries. Seems like an arbitrary and poorly thought out concept that was implemented.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    Ah yes, "I twisted my ankle on a boat and passed out, had a dream about Darth Vader, and then God said I was cool. Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again."
    Premium story telling there.

    And Lord of the Rings is "A midget's journey to drop a piece of jewellery into a volcano"

    If you simplify and butcher the entirety of the story, anything sounds bad.

    P.s. "Nobody gives a kitten or brings it up again" - You mean apart from literally EVERYONE talking about it CONSTANTLY throughout THE ENTIRE STORY? As it's not only the reason why you are even relevant to the story, but also why you and only you are capable of participating in all the important fights?

    Yes, they make it painfully clear that the warrior of light is nothing but a weapon to point at all the monsters that appear. A weapon doesn't need to think of course, just nod and off it goes.

  • This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

    I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

    I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

    I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

    The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    I spend at least 10,000 dollars a month but ArenaNet hasn't been acknowledging it and catering towards me.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

    Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

    Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

    have you ever been in a REAL fight? OF COURSE SIZE MATTERS, pretty much EVERY martial arts is divided by GENDER and WEIGHT
    asura have TECHNOLOGY to help them too, it is pretty much the foundation of their society
    yes , every time i see one of those giant boss monsters, i lose all immersion i had. wow wasnt so bad in that regard, specially not in the older xpacs
    being the "chosen one" ruins the foundation of RPG, why would they pick someone with the WRONG SKILLS?
    and if you , by some miracle, already have all the right skills, then you cant change them again (if you want to keep the status of being "chosen")

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.

    If by "Most of the story in the start"

    You mean, specifically post 2.1 (The end of the base game) and pre-3.0 (The start of the first expansion)

    Then yes. That particular bit of story sucked.

    But one isolated piece of poor story doesn't invalidate the rest of the story (2.0-2.1 was decent. 3.0-4.0 was excellent, 4.0-5.0 was good, 5.0-date is good)

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner

    I assume you're talking about the Lalafell race. To which you're being hyperbolic.

    latest

    Their heads are not bigger than the rest of their body.

    If anything, Asura have worse head sizes compared to the rest of their body:

    Not to mention, even in real life, there are animals that have disproportionatly large heads for their bodies (Notably, Ant Majors which have huge heads to function as soldiers and heavy laborers)

    But all these is ignoring fantasy aspects, like, the whole "Everything is infused with magic" which could lead to more diverse biologies, such as small creatures with incredibly dense muscle allowing for them to be unusually strong for their size (Explaining how a Lalafell can hit someone with an Axe as hard as say, a Roegadyn)

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    I've seen plenty of professors with six packs. I know tons of nerds who go to the gym and work out.

    It's not that hard to balance things out. Since you don't need to spend 100% of your time on something to be good at it (Heck, working out/training naturally involves downtime as your body needs to rest to repair and regain strength. The perfect time to pick up some books and do some studying)

    Also, nothing stops you from making a muscular beefcake character who is a mage class. Like here in GW2, you can make a Staff Elementalist who's a male norn with maxed out beefcakeness and wears a dress.

    This is before you even account for the plethora of fantasy archetypes that combine magic and martial fighting styles like spellblades (Elementalist and Mesmer are examples), Paladins (Guardian is an example), Deathknights (Reaper is an example)

    Not to mention... What does this even have to do with progression anyway?

    If it's just about "Putting points" into stats... No-one's put points into stats for years. Stats are gained solely from equipping magically enhanced gear, which happens to bypass a lot of the training and time needed to be good at something by providing instant ability. You need to be smart? Equip some intelligence gear, now you're instant Einstien. Need to be strong? Equip some strength gear and now you're instant Hafþór Björnsson. Need to be fast? Equip some agility gear and now you're instant Usain Bolt.

    Even with single class per character, it's still all about gaining stats from gear, not from inherent with the class itself due to "Studying" or "Training" with it. (Example, in GW2 every single class has a baseline of 1000 all stats at level 80. Heck, GW2 doesn't even have divisions between martial and magical ability, "Power" will make you swing a weapon harder as well as make spells stronger)

    a modern "professor"dont need to be smart, idi amin was a professor. so was saddam hussein. and so was all the kims in north korea.
    we are talking nobel price quality here, not many sixpacks to be found there
    putting the stats on the gear makes it even worse, that would make our characters a blank slate to be filled by gear grind

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

    Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3. They need to revamp the mastery system and as I said before move some to core for new players. Maybe a core mobility mastery track that includes water skate that allows travel toys to travel over water at walking/running speed (to make them more than just fluff items), Pact Launch Pad (with more pads added around), bouncing mushrooms and Oakheart's essence (not usable in JPs). The last two could be spread around Tyria to allow new players to get around better before they earn their mounts.

    Not the mention some of the mount masteries. The extra endurance one is good but is irrelevant to springer. The linking vitality one is not great also because the mount doesn't have the same stats as you so that vitality goes down fast and then your downed so the risk isn't worth it so I never use it.

    They SAID they could revamp old maps....well here we are. Do it.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Atomos.7593 said:

    @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    I agree, I CANNOT fathom why we got those gliding skills and the Siren's hymns just to never use them again unless we magically go back to those maps. We are able to use the Counter Magic one and the extra downed skill so why not have those other ones at least in Central Tyria. Its a waste and WE all know it.

    Skills that are acquired only to be limited to one map are a waste of player time. Skills should change how the player interacts with the whole game. At least in PvE. Masteries have gotten so bad with the Icebrood Saga that I haven't been enthusiastic about completing them. Of course the problem didn't start with it. It can be traced back to LWS3.

    Yeah. I can't even think of any reason why this skill restriction exists, at least for some of the masteries. Seems like an arbitrary and poorly thought out concept that was implemented.

    We got a few of them in other maps and more in Dragonfall so they CAN do them but they won't which gives me pause. So WHY? My only guess is a weak logic of those masteries staying around the map that contains that plot explanation and maybe the spaghetti code, allegedly. Having a mastery mechanic where we can pledge ourselves to a human god and get that hymn some where out there would be pretty cool.

  • Einlanzer.1627Einlanzer.1627 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with an excessive focus on gem store sales, mediocre story, and an over-abundance of chaotic map metas instead of focusing on exploration, small group content, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

    It's as if they knew the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate without the talent to do it effectively and killed the game in the process.

    In an MMO, immersion is important, but immersion needs a combination of deep mechanics, player camaraderie, and an interesting story. Even if the story was really good it would be insufficient to hold players on its own, and that's the fallacy with the way the game has developed.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

    Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Taril.8619 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    FF story is awful

    FFXIV story is great. Not sure what you're smoking.

    The only reason the game even exists to this day is because it's carried by its story.

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    you have lego characters

    Which characters are "Lego"?

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    i would also claim, that progression is broken, since you can learn EVERYTHING on one toon

    How is being able to do everything on one character "Broken progression"?

    You still level everything up from level 1, nothing is shared exp (Except Summoner/Scholar which was a mistake)

    How is that any different to rolling 100 characters each having 1 class and 2 professions like most other MMO's?

    If anything the progression is broken because gear progression is absolute tripe, with crafted gear being better quality than what you get from Raids and is easier to obtain, not timegated (Unlike raid gear which you can only get 1 token from each boss per week and gear requires 2-4 tokens per piece of gear) and each new tier of crafted gear is released alongside each new raid tier. Which ultimately makes running content utterly worthless and makes the best way to gear up your character is to not fight anything and just craft gear.

    most of the story in the start is done with monologues by ONE CHARACTER IN A SMALL DESERT VILLAGE, THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO EVERY TIME
    AFTER A QUEST. that got old REALLY fast.
    lego characters are the princess and her bodyguard in the very start of the game, you do realize, that such creatures couldnt survive, right?
    with a HEAD, THAT IS BIGGER , THAN THE BODY AND LEGS COMBINED. throw in the cartoon network voices, and we have a winner
    a good mage needs to put most points in intelligence, reading books and studying all the time
    a good warrior needs stamina and strength, training and working out
    how many professors have you seen with six packs ? YOU CANT DO BOTH!

    If you really think that short = can't survive then i assume that you also hate asura? Of course, if the size of the a creatures body was what equals their strength and resilience, it wouldn't matter if you were asura or norn, you would get flattened by the giant monsters regardless.

    Also, on the "realism", the only good thing in FFXIV is that you can play all classes with one character, the stats are more fluff than anything else. After all, on the main character, your character, when you get better at fighting than everyone else, it is because he/she is an idiot savant, not that they are actually good at it. Look at the stories in games and realise that a moron couldn't possibly be good at anything, so all that is left is that they are a "chosen one" and that is why they get power although they don't deserve it.

    have you ever been in a REAL fight? OF COURSE SIZE MATTERS, pretty much EVERY martial arts is divided by GENDER and WEIGHT
    asura have TECHNOLOGY to help them too, it is pretty much the foundation of their society
    yes , every time i see one of those giant boss monsters, i lose all immersion i had. wow wasnt so bad in that regard, specially not in the older xpacs
    being the "chosen one" ruins the foundation of RPG, why would they pick someone with the WRONG SKILLS?
    and if you , by some miracle, already have all the right skills, then you cant change them again (if you want to keep the status of being "chosen")

    Size matters just in real life, dummy. In tyria it doesn't matter if it's a norn or asura who hits a dragon, unless they are empowered by something or someone and/or have some super weapon, You know "chosen one" if empowered, depends with the super weapon.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

    I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

    I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

    I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

    The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

    Thats all well and good, sending a message is great as its what art sometimes is for. But what about the norn? This is the story of Jormag their greatest foe; Why the heck is the charr center stage. You could EASILY of used the svanir to tell a story about the oppression of sexism and its wider effects on a society and more importantly a world, racism is a huge component of this story. Great, but bangar does not and should not be the main villain and the charr should not be the main focus as again they have been a HUGE part of the story through-out guild wars 2. The norn deserve better and as a norn exclusive player I feel personally that we are not being given the time of day, we are back ground and foreground with sprinklings of lore dropped here and there but we haven't done much of anything. Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic and are in my eyes at the very least kind of subverted due to their time away from holebrak and their people. We could use some "true" norn in here showcasing their ideals and what it means to be norn. Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands. Those in the vigil and such don't count as they are part of an organization which has undoubtedly changed their outlook on life, Im talking about the natives of hoelbrak who have everything to do with this conflict.

    I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place. He has yet to be used as a character but has been set up for so much. Yet he will likely be ignored and just left where he is while they brought in bangar, DESPITE the idiot never making an appearance prior and only being mentioned same with Jhavi. Jhavi's arc is done she killed drakkar and avenged jora/svanir so honestly Im not sure outside of a background character as to why they would string her along. The purpose of her legend is done. But Knut is a direct descendant of Asgeir himself.... his bloodline is inherently and intrinsically linked to jormag... but rather we have braham to be asgeir 2.0. Personally its a waste of the Norn as a race and any potential story-telling that could be done through them.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Einlanzer.1627 said:
    Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with a skin store and excessive and mediocre story instead of focusing on exploration, dungeons, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

    It's as if they new the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate for it and killed the game in the process.

    IMO, the worst parts of the original game was PVP, dungeons, and underwater combat. And the better parts were the story and exploration, something they have kept the focus on since then.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic

    The whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

    Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.

    We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

    I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.

    Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:
    I hope something happens, this saga does not deserved an streaming announcement.

    This is so very true, and hammers home a point I've made before: ANet's marketing decisions are baffling. I don't understand how it's possible that a group of adults who are very familiar with GW2 (and its ups and downs) could possibly have thought the streaming announcement would be a good thing.

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    I found Bjora to be very boring and Drizzlewood looks like something they slapped together over the weekend. But, it is free content, so no worries.

    Agree on all counts. Bjora was a nice environment to explore once, but it seems to lack the fundamental feeling of... richness that the core maps and HoT maps have. As for Drizzlewood, I totally thought the exact same thing when it launched, but I appreciate that (1) it's free, and (2) they tried something different on a map that actually turned out really fun imo. AA duty with charzookas was an unexpected delight, and packs of Dominion mobs can actually kill my glass cannon builds if I'm not watching reflects/snares/etc. It's just about the only part of the game that can hold my attention right now between pvp matches.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    This is the problem with being of one of the most catered to demographics, the moment a content provider decides to notice an underserved demographic, the overserved fail to recognise the difference between personal taste and objectivity. The Icebrood Saga is good for those whom it appeals to, those who enjoy mystery and intrigue rather than everything being a murderfest. I feel that No Quarter was a bone thrown to the overserved, but overall the Icebrood Saga is meant for other costumers. I mean, I'm a whale, I can pay anywhere up to a thousand dollars a month on GW2 because it occasionally caters to me, and there are others like me, so we're a very profitable group.

    I feel that the Icebrood Saga is ArenaNet acknowledging that. The thing is is that overserved demographics can just decide to go anywhere else. Everything appeals to them. I see Final Fantasy XIV and The Old Republic mentioned above and that's exactly what I mean. If GW2 doesn't appeal to them then they can just go to other games, this also means that the overserved demographics don't feel as compelled to financially support any of the games they play. That's fine, it's a valid attitude to have when everything appeals to you, but it doesn't exactly make overserved demographics popular. In fact, if you can consolidate enough underserved demographics and cater to them, it can be more profitable overall for the aforementioned reason.

    I feel... I admit, weirdly targeted by The Icebrood Saga in a way no game ever has managed to before. It's compelling. A story where we might redeem a dragon rather than give into toxic masculinity and fling our phalluses at it until it gets slain to sate our manhood? Yes. Please. And. Thank. You. I like dragons. I like stories about redeeming and healing dragons. Jormag is a healer, who's very misunderstood. This appeals to me. Tales of mystery and intrigue appeal to me. And there's been a strong undercurrent of neurodiversity and mental health that's been there since definitely around LWS4 if not earlier. It's just now coming more to the forefront.

    I like that Bangar is being used to tackle racism. I like that the humans are aiding the charr against Bangar and his rebels. I'm kind of tired of the Ascalonian perspective of hating people just for playing charr, it's old and tired, it doesn't really belong here. You were upset about the Searing, we get it, please get over it. It's been how many years now? How many decades?? The story with Bangar is necessary to make a point about in-Universe bigotry and why it has no place in Guild Wars 2. It's meant to make bigots feel uncomfortable and I'm glad it's happening. And despite how much I love the charr, I don't mind at all that they're using the charr to tell this story as no one's perfect. So I'm hoping it'll teach a few needed lessons or at least serve to alienate the more toxic elements of the community, though I don't think we have many left.

    The point is? Sure, the Icebrood Saga isn't aimed at you. That doesn't make it bad. It just means that you've been overserved and now it's someone else's turn. You could be happy for those who enjoy it?

    Thats all well and good, sending a message is great as its what art sometimes is for. But what about the norn? This is the story of Jormag their greatest foe; Why the heck is the charr center stage. You could EASILY of used the svanir to tell a story about the oppression of sexism and its wider effects on a society and more importantly a world, racism is a huge component of this story. Great, but bangar does not and should not be the main villain and the charr should not be the main focus as again they have been a HUGE part of the story through-out guild wars 2. The norn deserve better and as a norn exclusive player I feel personally that we are not being given the time of day, we are back ground and foreground with sprinklings of lore dropped here and there but we haven't done much of anything. Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic and are in my eyes at the very least kind of subverted due to their time away from holebrak and their people. We could use some "true" norn in here showcasing their ideals and what it means to be norn. Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands. Those in the vigil and such don't count as they are part of an organization which has undoubtedly changed their outlook on life, Im talking about the natives of hoelbrak who have everything to do with this conflict.

    I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place. He has yet to be used as a character but has been set up for so much. Yet he will likely be ignored and just left where he is while they brought in bangar, DESPITE the idiot never making an appearance prior and only being mentioned same with Jhavi. Jhavi's arc is done she killed drakkar and avenged jora/svanir so honestly Im not sure outside of a background character as to why they would string her along. The purpose of her legend is done. But Knut is a direct descendant of Asgeir himself.... his bloodline is inherently and intrinsically linked to jormag... but rather we have braham to be asgeir 2.0. Personally its a waste of the Norn as a race and any potential story-telling that could be done through them.

    I agree that Norn have not been in any kind of highlight really (exept Braham embarassing himself repeatedly) but the Asura/Charr are not much better. The most Asura get is Taimi pulling another world saving idea/device out her backside or occasionally someone else but that is it.

    Besides, i don't remember the Charr or Asura as a species ever being important, only Taimi or Rytlock and mostly his sword but nothing more. Well, maybe their guns but that is basicly nothing and now you have the Norn spirits so i guess they are even. The fact that Norn have a little less just proves that Humans are the only ones that matter, kinda like they turned the commander into a Human no matter what race you choose. The Sylvari got one expac, which is much more than Charr/Norn/Asura COMBINED. Besides, a little highlight means nothing for any lore or information on the race itself, just what one person/group did.

    Something other than Human would be the best thing that could happen but, well, next is Cantha for some unfathomable reason (but really, it's easy to recycle). I don't think anet is even trying, just the next most predictable thing on the list for easy money milking.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic

    The whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

    Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.

    We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

    I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.

    Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

    So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).

    A. I never said anything about humanizing them.
    B. All species in fiction are based off of humanity. They are already humanized simply by being sentient species because humans only know of human existence so the only thing we have to base fictional species on is humanity.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    Something other than Human would be the best thing that could happen but, well, next is Cantha for some unfathomable reason (but really, it's easy to recycle). I don't think anet is even trying, just the next most predictable thing on the list for easy money milking.

    Cantha is next for a really easily understandable reason... there isn't much left to do besides Cantha.

    As it stands
    Humans(Kryta)

    • The bandit leaders are all either dead, or imprisoned, ending the threat of organized banditry in Kryta.
    • The Centaurs have been pushed out of Kryta, and their war leader killed, ending the Human-Centaur War with a decisive human victory.
    • The White Mantle, who was not only feeding the Bandit problem, but also manipulating Kryta from the inside, has been rooted out and destroyed, ending the insider threat once and for all.

    Sylvari

    • The mystery behind their origin has been answered.
    • The Nightmare Court, never a large group, has had its numbers and leadership demolished by our attack on Twilight Arbor, the breaking up of their alliance with the Krait, and the numbers Mordremoth was able to turn.
    • The Pale Tree, injured by the Shadow of the Dragon's attack, has been put on the path to recovery thanks to the Commander's restoration of Caladbolg.

    Charr

    • The Charr have made peace with the humans of Ascalon, and beyond, ending centuries of war between the two races.
    • The Flame Legion's leadership was destroyed, and the survivors have organized under Efram, who has made peace with the other legions. Bringing the Flame Legion back into the rest of Charr society.
    • Kralkatorrik and its generals have been killed, ending the threat of organized Branded attacks in Charr lands. And machines are being used to draw the last of the Branded from underground, so they can be finally removed once and for all.
    • The whole "Khan-Ur" thing is in the process of being resolved, and will likely be so by the end of Icebrood Saga.

    Norn

    • Braham has broken Jormag's tooth, as per the legend.
    • We have killed the Fraenir, the highest ranking of the Svanir.
    • Jhavi has led an attack on Drakkar, and bested the beast in combat, earning her family some measure of revenge for what it did to them.
    • We have discovered what happened to the lost Spirits of the Wild, and have, at least temporarily, freed them from Jormag's influence.
    • We are currently in the middle of the Icebrood Saga, which will almost certainly see the defeat of Jormag by its end, thus ending the main Icebrood threat, and breaking the back of the Svair's cult.

    Humans(Elona)

    • The Forged army has been broken, and mopped up.
    • Joko's empire is in total collapse in the face of civilian uprising across Elona.
    • The Sunpears have been reformed, with bases in Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi(and possibly Amnoon) and are leading a coalition government consisting of themselves, the Order of whispers, the Free Awakened, and Joko's Loyalists, to build a better future for Elona.

    Besides the Asura story stuff(such as stopping the Inquest once and for all, going underground and finding one of the 6 lost great Asuran cities, and defeating Primordus), and ending the ghost problem in Ascalon(which really wouldn't take more then one release at this point), Guild Wars 2 has already wrapped up, or is currently wrapping up, every major story thread its introduced.

    Going to Cantha makes sense because its the single biggest source of new plot threads. Dealing with the corrupt Ministry of Purity, and the xenophobic Canthan Empire, dealing with Kurzick and Luxon shenanigans, Kuunavang stuff, and probably the water dragon.

    Then Anet will come back to Tyria proper, and do the Primordus/Asura story stuff, and.... then the game's story would be done at that point.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:
    So, as soon as you humanize the Norn, the Charr, and Asura the world instantly becomes a better place? sound about right, heh. When all races are like humans, the human gods return and transform them into humans and we get instant paradise, like in real life. Hah! (You didn't say that straight, so i just stated it for you. After all: not human = going to kill themselves one way or another.) Should get better writers instead of some children bed time story writers. If you "fail", you only "failed" so you could win bigger next time (remember aurene?).

    A. I never said anything about humanizing them.
    B. All species in fiction are based off of humanity. They are already humanized simply by being sentient species because humans only know of human existence so the only thing we have to base fictional species on is humanity.

    But see that is what A-net is doing. Humanizing them to make them "Relatable" and people like them because of what they are, not because of what they could be. We love the charr because they are as they are... I don't want humanized versions of the races. But that is the narrative that A-net is choosing to follow. Bangar and Smodur at the only charr acting like charr.... the rest are... well.... kinda... humanish.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Jhavi/Braham and my commander do not represent the norn overall they are individualistic

    The whole point of the Norn has always been that they are a race of "individuals", who shun the very idea of society as we understand it, and instead prefer to live alone/with their immediate family. They are nothing but a species of individuals. The Spirits of the Wild even led them south because they were driving themselves to extinction by trying to fight Jormag this way.

    Im not saying they aren't Im saying that all three of those individuals do not represent norn values. They have been changed by interactions with other races; So much so that Jhavi and Braham have little knowledge of their ancestors outside of Jhavi knowing she is tied to jora/svanir. We don't get to see their culture and how they function outside of the influence and sphere of other races. By all intents and purposes they might as well just as easily be humans, it wouldn't change the narrative in any meaningful way.

    Warriors and hunters making pilgrimages to the shrines that are now free of drakkar and going back to their ancestral lands.

    We already saw that in Bjora Marches. The Norn priests who are attempting to purify the shrines of Wolverine, Eagle, and Ox, are all non Vigil Norn(though usually being escorted/assisted by Vigil), who followed those spirits, who came up north to try to help their spirits now that it was possible to get up there. And the Norn priest protecting Jora's Keep is Havroun Wibe, a non Vigil Norn priest.

    Havroun Weib however had no major lore connects, he hadn't interacted with us and we don't know how or why he came to this place. He was just present for the meta and as all things go the Meta may or may not be cannon. The priests are not from hoelbrak they are primarily from the vigil and other orders which means once more their view is altered based on how long they've been away. We don't have any norn following the old paths or beliefs within the maps outside of the few shamans ATTEMPTING to preform rituals they are unfamiliar with in hopes of helping their chosen spirits. This however does not mean we have norn warriors choosing to come of their own volition and the lore connection between the norn present and the narrative is loose at best. Im talking a full on chunk if not the majority of this saga should of been exploring their culture, their way of life and how it was prior and how it is now. Im not interested in stupid charr politics, im interested in the spirits of the wild and their connection to the mists and tyria. I want to know where the norn came from and their potential ties to the kodan; Id also like more interactions with the kodan and the norn and thus far its all "charr this, and charr that." Kinda makes it hard for me to feel invested when this was NOT THEIR PLOT. The norn were set up from day one to fight jormag, it was their plot so much so it features in their stories begining in this game. Yet.... it seems to be that the charr and friends will save the day. Thats bs writing and poor way of closing an arc.... the charrs enemy was Kralk, I likewise expected more charr influence in that fight..... yet it was a primarily human affair.

    I doubt highly that Knut whitebear would sit on his hands idle while the push against the svanir and icebrood was taking place.

    Knut Whitebear is an old man who has no real power over the Norn because, again, the Norn don't have an organized society, and are a species of individuals. Its exactly like the gathering of political leaders that occurred before we went to fight Mordremoth. Even back then, Knut admitted he really can't DO anything besides tell other Norn there is some glory to be had fighting the Dragon, since the Norn don't have an army, and don't really take orders from him. Knut himself isn't going to leave Hoelbrak, and risk getting himself killed, which would throw the closest thing the Norn have to a capital into chaos, and be immensely damaging to the Norn.

    Doesn't matter, he is a hero and he should be allowed to feature and have some development. There are plenty of ways to write him in perhaps hoelbrak and many of those residing within wish to join the fight in an "all or nothing" scenario. They united around Asgeir when Jormag came down upon them so its not something the will oppose, especially in reclamation of their lands and the vengeance for their people. What of the other Havrouns, where are they? Why only Weib hell we don't even know if bear has a havroun considering that Gretchen dies in the core tyria story. There are tons of characters tied to this plot that ANYONE who has been paying attention would know about, what of wolf's new havroun. The one who replaced her mentor in the personal story when her mentor was murdered by svanir cultists, and what of the leopard shaman who took us into the mists. All of these are parts of the story that should feature here and they dont, we should be dealing with the spirits far more and the lore of ancient norn past. Hell why are the Jotuun involved? They have a bone to pick with jormag AND with the norn, and with the charr as well and from the personal story the rumors of a new king coming to power was hinted at even after you dealt with one of the growing warlords that was plauging the foothills region. WHAT ABOUT ALLLL OF THIS? Are you telling me its fine they ignore all these set ups and not play with them a bit, because "meh, charr". No Im so sick of the charr that its killing any interest in the story for me, because as a norn I have to share OUR plot-thread with them. This is all norn will ever get because from here its cantha, and more human drivel and probably from there even more human stuff. I doubt the Asuran will even feature in their own story so two of the five races get shafted while the other three get all the attention, then why bother having them at all.

  • Einlanzer.1627Einlanzer.1627 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Einlanzer.1627 said:
    Their insistence on pushing samey-same LW maps every release with a skin store and excessive and mediocre story instead of focusing on exploration, dungeons, mechanical expansions, and PvP enhancements has already killed this game. Unless Cantha is somehow truly spectacular, I don't expect it to recover.

    It's as if they new the story was the worst part of the game from launch and spent years and years trying to fix/overcompensate for it and killed the game in the process.

    IMO, the worst parts of the original game was PVP, dungeons, and underwater combat. And the better parts were the story and exploration, something they have kept the focus on since then.

    That may be your opinion, but it wasn't the general consensus. Most aspects of the game were initially well reviewed with the story being routinely cited as the weakest link.

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭

    Based on the parts of the game that I have played, I think that the story was the weakest part of the original game. The beginning wasn't too bad but parts of the story in Orr were boring and felt repetitive. But I guess it's rare to find a game that does every aspect well these days anyway.