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DRUID DAY // My thoughts and suggestions to redisign and balance

CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
edited June 27, 2020 in PVP

I know it probably won t get changed and its kinda pointless but i have some ideas i have to write down because im sure that could work. Im old friend of gw2/gw1 and druid, even right now i made top100 with druid so this is not changes to make it op but more healthy and actually supportive. Please consider that this can be some CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION beetween players and i would like to encourage it to make some Druid At or day of Druids in ranked so if you are interested add me ingame or comment down below.

REDISIGN and CHANGES:

  1. CELESTIAL AVATAR: Cooldown 10sec // YOU NO LONGER NEED TO BUILD FULL ASTRAL FORCE TO ENTER

  2. Druiditc Clarity: This trait now removes 1 damaging + 1 movement impairing condition from 5 allies within 600 range including self

  3. Celestial Shadow: This trait now gives 1 second of stealh and superspeed instead 2 of stealth and 3 of superspeed

    What needs to be changed and is core problem from my perspective is druid Celestial Avatar. Druid avatar needs to function like mirror to necro shroud which means its not needed to max it so you can enter, aswell as cd needs to be 10sec to mirror necro shroud. There is no point in being lockdown to support team until you build full bar of astral force. Its beyond logic that druid has 20 sec cd on form while reaper/core have new health bar with more usefull skills on 10sec. If you compare necro/reaper shroud dmg with druid heals in avatar it gets even worse. The thing is if you want to reduce CA cd aswell as no need to build max astral force to enter, you need to change 2 traits which are druidic clarity and celestial shadow.

  4. COSMIC RAY (avatar skill 1): This skill now grants 1 second of protection and 2 seconds of regeneration additionally to radius of heal

  5. NATURAL CONVERGENCE (avatar skill 5): Recharge is increased for 30 seconds. This skill now doesn t root you and its instant cast. Pulse damage,slow and stability on you and your allies in 360 range each second and has 3 pulses, last pulse is blast finisher and doesn t immobilaze but still deals increased dmg.

I think rest of skills in avatar are fine or will be fine if this is done because blast finisher and instant cast of Natural Convergence will help the use of rejuvenating tides because of stability and free blast finisher to add bonus heals. Skill 1 cosmic ray would be fine if it gives protection and regeneration since healing right now is too low to even use it. I think having more than 1 sec prot and 2 sec regeneration would be op because druid will abuse it for self sustain.

6: GLYPHS OUT OF ASTRAL FORM: All glyphs out of avatar stay same but additionally generate 20% of astral force.

  1. GLYPHS INSIDE OF ASTRAL FORM: All glyphs inside the form now takes 20% of astral force and apply those effects only for allies and not for caster. All of them are now ground target on 1200 range to match the range of staff and cosmic ray+seed of life in avatar. Some of glyphs would need redisign like glyph of equality will still break stun on you but also in ground target area. Glyph of tides won t be pulling enemies to you since its aoe ground target at 1200 range so it should apply taunt instead.

The idea about glyphs is to add some deep though about would you use them in form or out of form for example you can choose to heal your self with heal glyph or you can waste cd on more allies so you heal for example 3 allies in radius each for 5k+ instead healing yourself. Even if they focus you later because they know you used heal skill for allies you are still brining value since you saved lifes there. All glyphs out of form are malee range and have selfish use (except glyph of stars) but the ones in astral form are all ranged and do opposite which is effect allies but does not effect you. Again exception is glyph of stars and glyph of equality (still acts as stunbreak for caster) which even have names fitting the theme.

  1. GLYPH OF THE STARS: Glyph of stars should build 20% astral force each pulse and have only 5 pulses (5x 20% is 100% or full astral force) . Since this skill now generates 20% astral force each pulse and consume 20% while inside you need to be able to switch avatar while casting depending on situation. Right now when you go out or in avatar it stays the same one you started casting. Idea is it should change when you swap since it consumes life force inside so would be stupid with same effect. Effect inside Celestial avatar should have stronger revive percent like 15% of downed health per pulse.

NOW LETS TALK ABOUT STAFF

9: Solar beam now inflict 1 second burning on last tick aswell

10: Astral whisp now inflict 2 stacks of burn on foes which touch the guy carrying whisp aswell as the guy which whisp is on (only once per target)

11: Ancestral Grace: now this skill is teleport and have 3/4 sec precast to port away. Skill heals for 3k and grants protection for allies but is not longer able to heal self. Cooldown is increased to 30 seconds

12: Vine Surge now stays for 5 sec on ground and root foes (only 1 second of immob) trying to cross it. Cd is increased on 25 sec

13: Sublime conversion is now instant cast and can be casted while casting other skills without interupting them.

My last though is about druid being forced to play traits which are kind of lame design like ancient seeds because lets be real 5 sec imob means dead and we already have entangle as elite.

14: ANCIENT SEEDS now apply one second of immobilaze and 5 stacks of bleeding instead 5 pulsing roots and bleeds. This way druid will be able to play some condi build without feeling bad with all those imobs suited.

I writed alot and thanks for ppl which want to have constructive conversation. For ppl which don t like this idea please write your own i don t care because druid need some love. Please don t be too caught by small things i writed but try to see it as whole. If anyone in EU want to have some druid way in AT you can add me ingame or comment here.

Comments

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 27, 2020

    These changes would completely remove Druid from play. Those suggestions are mostly large nerfs to a class that is already bad.

    The damage and teleport on Staff would not make up for those large nerfs to CS and DC. What Druid needs is flat damage adjustments to the Staff with no other changes anywhere in the spec, unless we're talking also buffing CA Kit usage.

    Druid does not need weird cut & paste class alterations. It needs FLAT BUFFING. Click the Druid thread link in my signature if you want my reasons as to why that is.

    But you know what? I guess it doesn't really matter anymore. You could run pretty much whatever you want now and make up for a bad build with sheer hacking prowess. Plenty of people getting away with it publicly nowadays, completely scott-free.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Plenty of people getting away with it publicly nowadays, completely scott-free.

    Transfer to EU, it's ok for now.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    Druid doesn't need buffs....neither it needs nerfs. But knowing anet, they might just "revamp" random traits/ skills which will make the class either OP or on par with current Chrono. =)

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    These changes would completely remove Druid from play. Those suggestions are mostly large nerfs to a class that is already bad.

    The damage and teleport on Staff would not make up for those large nerfs to CS and DC. What Druid needs is flat damage adjustments to the Staff with no other changes anywhere in the spec, unless we're talking also buffing CA Kit usage.

    Druid does not need weird cut & paste class alterations. It needs FLAT BUFFING. Click the Druid thread link in my signature if you want my reasons as to why that is.

    But you know what? I guess it doesn't really matter anymore. You could run pretty much whatever you want now and make up for a bad build with sheer hacking prowess. Plenty of people getting away with it publicly nowadays, completely scott-free.

    I agree with you about rejuventing tides being instant even that would make me happy. Seed of life is actually good right now and its first skill i pop before 3 in CA usually.
    It removes 2 condis and blind+small heal while you can blast it so its working good for me. As you said skill 1 is teribad while i like the challenge of small radius i rly think i needs prot and regen on top and its kinda what you said too (you wanted second boon for regen to be random but i won t argue with that cus its fine even though i don t like randomness but on such low cd and skill name cosmic ray would fit the theme). I would like to see skill 5 get instant cast more than 4 because you would be able to move and combine this blas while secured with stab so you share stab and heal+slow and dmg enemies.

    CS and DC need to get reduced effects just to make CA more fluid because if cd is now 10 sec and you don t need astral force to enter it means you can proc it when you need it and not wait to get caught in unfavorable situtation until you build your astral force. That is not a nerf because you don t need druidic clarity that much if you run wildernes for survival and elite glyph could replace that full cleanse and you could do secure it with stab on CA5 if its instant as i mentioned. Everything i said about staff is a buff and staff doesn t healing yourself but get port instead is buff aswell because its better to get out of clutch than heal for 2,5k if you agree (you can still exit CA for CS and than port away safe cus 1 sec is enough. In this scenario glyphs would get some use because its easier to heal in 1200 range than what we have now and its forcing the stupid balling pve meta. If you now will lack self sustain remember that you have weps and utility bar and that glyph out of CA still have selfish use (there are better defense than glyphs but if you want to heal having glyph inside CA would provide some nice ranged support and those like glyph of aligment and heal skill would bring nice burst heals).
    Combo to save someone would have many scenarios with those changes and now there is only one and its the worst one for druid and its go malee range (except lunar impact and seed of life+cosmic ray which idk if its worth mention). I think druid should be the real heal class lacking right now in game which would be played like lonely roamer to assist kills and save lifes while roaming.

    I know its kinda science fiction to happen but you can t say its overall class nerf just because DC and CA got little tweaks for exchange of instant CA option+10sec new icd would be more than good. I don t agree they should force 2 great traits to never reduce cd of CA and actually leave it as this mess of utility skills. I would rather have control of being able to instant CA and stab + some skill or leave for stealth than have to build full force to get full condi cleanse and 1 second of stealth more. Idk how its nerf because im sure DC and CS right now is what keeps druid mostly in touch with new meta but in same time they are only thing stoping druid from having normal form which is not locked behind stupid cd and than i would talk about buffing CA skills as you already mentioned.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    We could start by removing part of the useless Nerfs obtained over the years and see how the profession would adapt to the current Meta.

    Although I personally think that Druid's problem is the compromise between CA and Pets, Druid shouldn't have pets but be a support like Tempest.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    @CroTiger.7819

    You are not understanding the absolutely detrimental effects of what your suggestions would do. Not trying to come down on you here but really though. And keep in mind that what I am saying here is coming from a place of AT play and 1v1ing against the better players in the game vs. various classes. Even for the old legit Ranked play, there are certain things you must do and other things you can't do, with Druid play.

    1. Druidic Clarity having the stun break removed was already a huge nerf. This forces the Druid to have to take triple stun breaks if you want to survive and contend amongst top tier players using meta builds. It's not that different than Core Ranger in the aspects of "defenses that are mandatory to use." The difference between Core and Druid is that Core gets to Marks/Wild/Beast, where Druid has to Wild/Beast/Druid if you want optimal builds that don't get dumpstered vs. good players wielding meta. So the difference is damage output ok. When the stun break was removed from DC, it stopped the Druid from being able to use a 3rd utility slot for something to add a bit of offensive quality. This is where more damage problems began with Druid, when it already had damage output issues.
    2. The only thing the Druid Kit as a specialization even brings to the table is: CA use = 13 condi clear, Pop CA 3 on a water field for burst heal, leave CA for the stealth super speed disengage. <- That is the only thing the specialization offers at all. It even has the drawback now for -20% pet attributes, which is disgusting after they nerfed actual base pet damage as a Core Ranger nerf, which just makes pets terrible on Druid. I mean this specialization isn't bringing much to the table in terms of more sustainability than a Core Ranger already has. And that little bit of extra sustain, comes at the great cost of pet DPS output and the entire Marksmanship line, or simply running Soulbeast for nuclear 1HKO builds. You MUST understand before tossing Druid suggestions, that the specialization only has that little bit of extra sustain, that free 13 condi clear, and the now already nerfed to 2s stealth/super speed to offer. When you start nerfing this stuff to the point that it isn't present or barely present at all, the specialization will have nothing to offer, absolutely nothing. You suggest 1s stealth/super speed, only 2 condi cleanse on CA use, remove heal on Staff 3. Dude.. despite your suggestions for Staff damage increase, it still wouldn't replace or even match a Short Bow for condi play. And even if Anet drove enough DPS buffs into Staff to make it comparable to a Short Bow, it still wouldn't be worth selecting the Druid spec at that point because selecting the Druid spec would be handicapping/debuffing yourself from simply running a kitten Core Ranger with 90% of the sustain value that the Druid has anyway, but while being able to select an actual trait line with abilities that actually strengthen the build in significant ways.

    If the Druid is wielding Wild/Beast/Druid and Core Rangers also always select Wild/Beast, ask yourself what in your suggestions would make your new Druid trait line worth sacrificing Marks or Skirm or Nature over?

    And don't say Glyphs, because they just don't work man. The Glyphs have two problems going for them. The first is that the design of usage doesn't work well in pvp, which I've already covered in my Druid thread link in my signature, not going into that here. They would need to buff Glyphs to a disproportionate level of offensive strength for it to balance out with the clunky design of how they work in conjunction with shifts in and out of CA. The second problem is that as with any class/build, there is always a certain amount and certain type of mandatory skills that need to be used for bare minimal survival, and Glyphs are just not a part of it. No matter how strong those Glyphs were to become, they won't be strong enough to replace things like Quick Zephyr, Protect Me, Light Reflexes, SOTP for Stab, or even Entangle for a stop up mechanism and extra 2 condi clear. If the Glyphs were ever to be able to replace those fundamental survival mechanisms, they'd need to be packing A LOT of offensive value. This is just because the Glyphs do not synergize well with anything else designed around Druid play at all.

    Also to note, I appreciate anyone bringing up and discussing Druid. We need more of it. I just want to make sure people who keep tossing these suggestions about buffing Glyphs and essentially removing Druid Clarity, understand quite exactly what they would be getting themselves into on that. It won't pan out as well as people are thinking it will. In a nutshell, if CS and DC were to be nerfed any further than they already are, Druid needs to gain back a LARGE amount of DPS in some area to be able to compensate for that. Because right now, the Druid spec is already considered a handicap vs. playing Core for side node or Soulbeast for DPS +, and they are correct on that. The only thing the Druid is even good at anymore, is 1v1ing dueling in situations that do not involve holding nodes. Druid is terrible for holding nodes and decapping players off nodes, it can never deal the DPS as a Soulbeast or Core for a + build, and it's bad in team fights & supporting. It's not even the same league of support as a Tempest or Firebrand. And kitten, a Demo Holosmith as example, can self sustain just as well as a Mender Druid. NO MORE SUSTAIN NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM DRUID END OF STORY. Sorry but it really needed to be said that way.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    No disrespect intended to anyone, but I don’t want Druid changed with (the dropped from ESL) GW2 spvp in mind.

    I want this type of Druid as mentioned by ICH

    “Bringing heavy healing to GW2, unlike anything you have seen before. Strong support, very powerful in upcoming raids and WvW. Can sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players in WvW.”

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2020

    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    “ What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again.”

    And that’s by cutting back, and cutting out, on the healing that Druid can affect itself with. That’s not difficult to do.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    “ What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again.”

    And that’s by cutting back, and cutting out, on the healing that Druid can affect itself with. That’s not difficult to do.

    Yup, not sure why it hasn't happened yet.

    I mean right now Druid is looking at a situation where every class except Thief/Mesmer, is able to match the heal/sustain factor of a Mender Staff Druid while wearing DPS amulets on mostly DPS oriented builds, so they can pump out anywhere between 5x to 10x the DPS values, along with way more CC to boot. A great example of this is a Demolisher Holosmith.

    Druid isn't slightly under the weather like some other specializations. It isn't just undergoing an inconvenient patching. No, for some reason Arenanet chose to bury the class competitively.

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @CroTiger.7819

    You are not understanding the absolutely detrimental effects of what your suggestions would do. Not trying to come down on you here but really though. And keep in mind that what I am saying here is coming from a place of AT play and 1v1ing against the better players in the game vs. various classes. Even for the old legit Ranked play, there are certain things you must do and other things you can't do, with Druid play.

    1. Druidic Clarity having the stun break removed was already a huge nerf. This forces the Druid to have to take triple stun breaks if you want to survive and contend amongst top tier players using meta builds. It's not that different than Core Ranger in the aspects of "defenses that are mandatory to use." The difference between Core and Druid is that Core gets to Marks/Wild/Beast, where Druid has to Wild/Beast/Druid if you want optimal builds that don't get dumpstered vs. good players wielding meta. So the difference is damage output ok. When the stun break was removed from DC, it stopped the Druid from being able to use a 3rd utility slot for something to add a bit of offensive quality. This is where more damage problems began with Druid, when it already had damage output issues.
    2. The only thing the Druid Kit as a specialization even brings to the table is: CA use = 13 condi clear, Pop CA 3 on a water field for burst heal, leave CA for the stealth super speed disengage. <- That is the only thing the specialization offers at all. It even has the drawback now for -20% pet attributes, which is disgusting after they nerfed actual base pet damage as a Core Ranger nerf, which just makes pets terrible on Druid. I mean this specialization isn't bringing much to the table in terms of more sustainability than a Core Ranger already has. And that little bit of extra sustain, comes at the great cost of pet DPS output and the entire Marksmanship line, or simply running Soulbeast for nuclear 1HKO builds. You MUST understand before tossing Druid suggestions, that the specialization only has that little bit of extra sustain, that free 13 condi clear, and the now already nerfed to 2s stealth/super speed to offer. When you start nerfing this stuff to the point that it isn't present or barely present at all, the specialization will have nothing to offer, absolutely nothing. You suggest 1s stealth/super speed, only 2 condi cleanse on CA use, remove heal on Staff 3. Dude.. despite your suggestions for Staff damage increase, it still wouldn't replace or even match a Short Bow for condi play. And even if Anet drove enough DPS buffs into Staff to make it comparable to a Short Bow, it still wouldn't be worth selecting the Druid spec at that point because selecting the Druid spec would be handicapping/debuffing yourself from simply running a kitten Core Ranger with 90% of the sustain value that the Druid has anyway, but while being able to select an actual trait line with abilities that actually strengthen the build in significant ways.

    If the Druid is wielding Wild/Beast/Druid and Core Rangers also always select Wild/Beast, ask yourself what in your suggestions would make your new Druid trait line worth sacrificing Marks or Skirm or Nature over?

    And don't say Glyphs, because they just don't work man. The Glyphs have two problems going for them. The first is that the design of usage doesn't work well in pvp, which I've already covered in my Druid thread link in my signature, not going into that here. They would need to buff Glyphs to a disproportionate level of offensive strength for it to balance out with the clunky design of how they work in conjunction with shifts in and out of CA. The second problem is that as with any class/build, there is always a certain amount and certain type of mandatory skills that need to be used for bare minimal survival, and Glyphs are just not a part of it. No matter how strong those Glyphs were to become, they won't be strong enough to replace things like Quick Zephyr, Protect Me, Light Reflexes, SOTP for Stab, or even Entangle for a stop up mechanism and extra 2 condi clear. If the Glyphs were ever to be able to replace those fundamental survival mechanisms, they'd need to be packing A LOT of offensive value. This is just because the Glyphs do not synergize well with anything else designed around Druid play at all.

    Also to note, I appreciate anyone bringing up and discussing Druid. We need more of it. I just want to make sure people who keep tossing these suggestions about buffing Glyphs and essentially removing Druid Clarity, understand quite exactly what they would be getting themselves into on that. It won't pan out as well as people are thinking it will. In a nutshell, if CS and DC were to be nerfed any further than they already are, Druid needs to gain back a LARGE amount of DPS in some area to be able to compensate for that. Because right now, the Druid spec is already considered a handicap vs. playing Core for side node or Soulbeast for DPS +, and they are correct on that. The only thing the Druid is even good at anymore, is 1v1ing dueling in situations that do not involve holding nodes. Druid is terrible for holding nodes and decapping players off nodes, it can never deal the DPS as a Soulbeast or Core for a + build, and it's bad in team fights & supporting. It's not even the same league of support as a Tempest or Firebrand. And kitten, a Demo Holosmith as example, can self sustain just as well as a Mender Druid. NO MORE SUSTAIN NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FROM DRUID END OF STORY. Sorry but it really needed to be said that way.

    First of all thx for effort to reply. I already played druid without Ca and Cs and i can tell you that primal echoes is great trait but again problem is staff. Staff doesn t have to compete with sb on dmg it just needs utility/mediocre dmg because right now its very bad utility and no dmg. Druidic clarity doesn t need full clear if its on lower recharge and no need for full astral force. Taking wildernes survival as you said doesn t need another full cleanse especially when you have seed of life+lunar impact inside. Having skill 5 in CA on instant cast pulsing stab would be emergeny button to get that burst of heal. If you stayed focused still you leave and reposition with staff. If ppl follow, you can daze to proc ancient seeds, drop staff 4 and kite around that root which now stays on the ground. If you run gs for other set you have another mobility/defense there. This done write can save you whats druid struggle and thats why i think staff 3 should be teleport because it would open so much because right now it doesn t help you if you are focused since you will eat cc 99% of time you try so that makes it uselles escape tool. CS will still have same amount of defense because you have double lower recharge and no need for build up so you can use it even before you get focused and more reliable. Having port on staff would make CS only 1 sec enough and you coul even drop stab before that. I think the key to buff druid form is CA5 natural convergence and you are kind of right when you said loosing stunbreak on druidic clarity was huge so i would like if they add it on CA5 (it should need bigger recharge though if it pulse stab to allies and slow to foes while being instant cast it surely would need increase in cd). I think not having to use it than move to get stab waste too much time and its low duration stab anyway so result is very clunky utility right now. I think druid form deserves 1 skill like that which would let you breathe for 3 sec each 40 seconds because right now as you said its all about entering to leave and leaving to enter. The idea is to make druid work with sage/mender amulet and how this helps is if you can escape with port and have utility to burst heal/save someone from 1200 range using heal skill to heal ally instead of you while still being able to heal yourself. This is achieved because druid form now acts like heal on its own since you can safe cast skills inside and combine those blasts. Lunar impact should also have lower cast time but same amount of animation going on so blast/daze come deleyed which makes you able to combine another blast with rejuventing tides. I am sure that reducing cooldown on druid form as no need to full astral force would not hurt DC and CS because you would be able to use it more frueqently while bringing real utility and quality of life changes to skill 4 and 5 in CA (ITS BETTER TO HAVE INSTANT 4 AND 5 ON BIGGER CD THAN HAVE IT ON LOW CD WHILE BEING ALMOST USELLES). Those skills (4 and 5) in avatar form are needed to bring druid utility to stay in avatar. Another reason would be glyphs and yes they are bad but just think of this 2 and its equality and heal glyph. Now if you want burst heal aoe 1200 range you would enter avatar and bring heals imidetly and you don t have to take other glyphs even. Glyph of equality is fine for me even right now but having it on range cast would be small buff to it. Other glyphs are bad as you said even though glyph of stars could get some use in this condi meta especially if you have stab on CA 5.

    Consider that i actually play druid in top 100 eu and im not just shouting buff druid without work behind it. These all would make druid hard to play but rewarding if done right. Right now CA have bad utility and all skills combined can t heal you like healing turret from zerker engi and it also takes ages to cast. So yes you are right about rejuventing tides but i don t agree 20sec cd and full astral force to enter mess of skills inside is way to go. Fact that you enter to leave and leave to enter says it alone how stupid design right now is.

  • HeadCrowned.6834HeadCrowned.6834 Member ✭✭✭

    I quickly skipped through your article but I didnt see anything about healing power coefficients, which are way too low now on druid skills. Mender amulet isnt even a correct choice anymore now for Druid in a lot of cases, which says a lot. And the comparison with engineer healing output without a healing power amulet is correct one to illustrate the poor situation of Druid at the moment. This doesnt leave out the fact tho that Druid has gotten a better place in the meta since the large patch, but for the wrong reasons basically.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

    Back in the HoT days Druid was still a crappy team healer, and still is. Druid was supposed to be a good team healer and that’s what I want. And any of my suggestions on Druid are doable, and I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

    Back in the HoT days Druid was still a crappy team healer, and still is. Druid was supposed to be a good team healer and that’s what I want. And any of my suggestions on Druid are doable, and I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes.

    If you had actually read my suggestions, you'd see that they do nothing but bolster Druid CA Kit in ways that strengthen casual party support. My suggestions do nothing to alter the already dominant position that Druid is in for raid healing.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

    Back in the HoT days Druid was still a crappy team healer, and still is. Druid was supposed to be a good team healer and that’s what I want. And any of my suggestions on Druid are doable, and I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes.

    If you had actually read my suggestions, you'd see that they do nothing but bolster Druid CA Kit in ways that strengthen casual party support. My suggestions do nothing to alter the already dominant position that Druid is in for raid healing.

    So your suggestions are acceptable but mine aren’t?

    Esports failed to deliver. GW2 was dropped from ESL. I don’t want that mode being main consideration for future changes. Now I’m sure if ESL didn’t can GW2, maybe more of the player base would be on board with spvp being a larger factor for profession changes.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

    Back in the HoT days Druid was still a crappy team healer, and still is. Druid was supposed to be a good team healer and that’s what I want. And any of my suggestions on Druid are doable, and I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes.

    If you had actually read my suggestions, you'd see that they do nothing but bolster Druid CA Kit in ways that strengthen casual party support. My suggestions do nothing to alter the already dominant position that Druid is in for raid healing.

    So your suggestions are acceptable but mine aren’t?

    That's not what I said.

    My comment was in reference to you saying: "I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes. "

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    No disrespect intended to anyone, but I don’t want Druid changed with (the dropped from ESL) GW2 spvp in mind.

    I want this type of Druid as mentioned by ICH

    “Bringing heavy healing to GW2, unlike anything you have seen before. Strong support, very powerful in upcoming raids and WvW. Can sustain a zerg train of 20-30 players in WvW.”

    WvW..... if anet actually makes druid viable in wvw.

    I will eat my pants.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    @Swagger.1459

    I don't know why you keep posting that video. That's a stream talking about Druid before HoT was even released. Arenanet clearly chose not to follow that vision.

    What we're discussing in these Druid suggestion threads, is where to take things now in 2020, when the entire ballgame has changed.

    Besides that, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you necessarily. It's just that we already know Arenanet is not going to redeliver the vision he mentioned, which would inevitably turn into another immortal Bunker Druid, which is why his vision was not followed through with. It wasn't healthy for the game and it was pissing everyone off.

    What all of the Druid players are doing is trying to make suggestions that Arenanet might actually consider, that gets as close to the ICH vision as it can, without overstepping health boundaries and becoming another 1v2 unkillable side node beast again. This typically includes compensating Druid's lose of original vision with more DPS output, and bolstering CA Kit skills with more party support but no boosting to self sustain. That's really all we can do man.

    If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.

    Again, I'm not trying to sound aggressive or be offensive. I'm just pointing out that the chances are highly unlikely that we will ever again see Druid functioning like it used to in the HoT days.

    Back in the HoT days Druid was still a crappy team healer, and still is. Druid was supposed to be a good team healer and that’s what I want. And any of my suggestions on Druid are doable, and I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes.

    If you had actually read my suggestions, you'd see that they do nothing but bolster Druid CA Kit in ways that strengthen casual party support. My suggestions do nothing to alter the already dominant position that Druid is in for raid healing.

    So your suggestions are acceptable but mine aren’t?

    That's not what I said.

    My comment was in reference to you saying: "I certainly don’t want spvp to dictate what direction this spec takes. "

    “ If you were to reread this OP's suggestion thread or my suggestion thread or @mistsim.2748 and his suggestions, after reading what I explained here, you'll see why we are suggesting what we are suggesting. Because those are suggestions that may have a chance to be considered.”

    Idk, reads an awful lot like “our suggestions work, but yours don’t”.

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 3, 2020

    @HeadCrowned.6834 said:
    I quickly skipped through your article but I didnt see anything about healing power coefficients, which are way too low now on druid skills. Mender amulet isnt even a correct choice anymore now for Druid in a lot of cases, which says a lot. And the comparison with engineer healing output without a healing power amulet is correct one to illustrate the poor situation of Druid at the moment. This doesnt leave out the fact tho that Druid has gotten a better place in the meta since the large patch, but for the wrong reasons basically.

    Man their balance is so lazy and zero creative that they buff imob on staff, minor heal to CA 3 which was best skill already and skill 2 which is fine already after changed for 2 condi cleanse. Being locked behind 20sec long avatar cd and astral force is still the main problem i see aswell as bad CA skills (1,4,5) and outdated and nerfed staff+glyphs which could be made to have nice heals inside CA. Idk how necros can have better utility new health bar at 10sec cd without need of building full life force. It looks like they are trolling with this long waited balance patches. They are too lazy to redisign druidic clarity and celestial shadow to make CA lower cd and worth staying in since all skills inside except 2 and 3 are non existant in 80% scenarios. Yes skill 5 have clunky use to break channel just to get 3 sec stab while engi in current meta deletes half health with grenades on static targets.