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Thief best roamer class for 7 years

Skyronight.6370Skyronight.6370 Member ✭✭✭

Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

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Comments

  • @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    you forgot ranger

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.
    rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.
    thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long.

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Engineer has been overpowered and bloated since alpha.

    SB5 was nerfed from 1200 to 900 range wasn't it?

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    omg nec best teamfighter for 7 years

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    Squishy . yes but he is not the only one and you forgot about stealth ,teleport and panic bottoms (Dagger Storm,Roll for Initiative,.......)
    Mediocre Damage . yes but you forgot about steal and CC that enable him to kill with that mediocre damage (and condi thief dont have mediocre damage ofc)

    So yea having all that with mobility is not balanced for conquest
    **

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hotte in space.2158 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    you forgot ranger

    lol no

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    Squishy . yes but he is not the only one and you forgot about stealth ,teleport and panic bottoms (Dagger Storm,Roll for Initiative,.......)
    Mediocre Damage . yes but you forgot about steal and CC that enable him to kill with that mediocre damage (and condi thief dont have mediocre damage ofc)

    So yea having all that with mobility is not balanced for conquest
    **

    I know it's just a silly typo but this genuinely made me laugh. Thanks for that 👍🤗

  • DragonFury.6243DragonFury.6243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 said:

    @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    Squishy . yes but he is not the only one and you forgot about stealth ,teleport and panic bottoms (Dagger Storm,Roll for Initiative,.......)
    Mediocre Damage . yes but you forgot about steal and CC that enable him to kill with that mediocre damage (and condi thief dont have mediocre damage ofc)

    So yea having all that with mobility is not balanced for conquest
    **

    I know it's just a silly typo but this genuinely made me laugh. Thanks for that 👍🤗

    You are welcome

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    Incorrect, there's been times when people have truly frowned upon having a thief in their team - for a good reason.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    O please do :)
    I think thief needs movement speed nerf since it can blink here and there OR nerfed blinks but kept speed.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Hmm... The highest mobility class is relevant in conquest. Who would have thought.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DragonFury.6243 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    Squishy . yes but he is not the only one and you forgot about stealth ,teleport and panic bottoms (Dagger Storm,Roll for Initiative,.......)
    Mediocre Damage . yes but you forgot about steal and CC that enable him to kill with that mediocre damage (and condi thief dont have mediocre damage ofc)

    Thieves panic buttons are worse than those other classes have. And Daggerstorm and Roll for Initiative are no longer played, sooo. No one forgot about stealth, stealth is just irrelevant in the middle of a fight. And no, thieves CC is always below average, and neither it nor steal allow thief to kill with the mediocre damage. If youre fighting 1v1, you never kill someone as thief. Its a +1 class.

    So yea having all that with mobility is not balanced for conquest
    **

    "All that" is very little. And the truth is, take all of it away, and thief is still good. Thief exists purely because of shortbow 5. The remaining class is so pathetically underpowered that it was unplayable in the gamemode where shortbow 5 didnt matter. Thats also why they dont nerf shortbow 5. Because if they did, they would have to throw so many buffs at thief, people here would throw a fit.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    All I'm playing nowadays is full zerker glass cannon builds. For some reason I'm not dying any more compared to my thief matches. It's a pure l2p problem for those who do.
    If you play anything and die more then 2 times in a conquest match, apart from extremely nieche cases you are hard-throwing for your team with your inability to rotate and to forsee the future.
    Also which class has none of the following: insta cast teleports/stealth/evades?
    nErF tEeF!

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svez Poizon XD.5268 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    O please do :)
    I think thief needs movement speed nerf since it can blink here and there OR nerfed blinks but kept speed.

    Serious question, what would a less mobile thief be good at? What would its role be?

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Don't know if that is the one that takes the cake. He has an impressive resume of face-palmy stuff.

    The degenerate

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Regarding the P/D core build he is even right. That build does not use any endurance generating skill or trait and besides SB3 not a single skill with a built in evasion.

    But the fun fact is, that this is still the strongest current thief build and generally speaking about teef, that you have to be very (!) ignorant to ignore the acro traitline, the staff evades, the mh-dagger endurance generation, the sword3 evades, the agility signet ...

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Go ahead, point out where thats supposed to be false. Well actually there is one slight error. Its 1 extra evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Remember, the current thief build is D/P, which has no evade skills itself, using HiS which doesnt have evade, Blinding powder which doesnt have evade, shadowstep which doesnt have evade, signet of agility which is the one per 30 seconds I mentioned, and currently basilisk venom. Which, you guessed it! Aint got an evade.

    And yeah, in-combat stealth is bad for survivability. Weve been over this. The simple fact is that if the thief tries to stealth up mid-combat, he either gets ccd and killed, or just killed. Thats why thieves dont do it, if they want to survive, they run. If they couldnt run, they would just die.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Regarding the P/D core build he is even right. That build does not use any endurance generating skill or trait and besides SB3 not a single skill with a built in evasion.

    But the fun fact is, that this is still the strongest current thief build and generally speaking about teef, that you have to be very (!) ignorant to ignore the acro traitline, the staff evades, the mh-dagger endurance generation, the sword3 evades, the agility signet ...

    he also said " and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed."
    he sure went out of his way to sound stupid on this one, not that the most mobile build in the game should need much evasion, expecially since it also stealthed most of the game and enemies that it hits are instantly stunned or blinded, or both.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Go ahead, point out where thats supposed to be false. Well actually there is one slight error. Its 1 extra evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Remember, the current thief build is D/P, which has no evade skills itself, using HiS which doesnt have evade, Blinding powder which doesnt have evade, shadowstep which doesnt have evade, signet of agility which is the one per 30 seconds I mentioned, and currently basilisk venom. Which, you guessed it! Aint got an evade.

    And yeah, in-combat stealth is bad for survivability. Weve been over this. The simple fact is that if the thief tries to stealth up mid-combat, he either gets ccd and killed, or just killed. Thats why thieves dont do it, if they want to survive, they run. If they couldnt run, they would just die.

    poor thief with only 3 dodges and perma stealth, cant even get some extra free dodges on his weapon sets, and has do spam blind to pressure people, oh the tragedy

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Don't know if that is the one that takes the cake. He has an impressive resume of face-palmy stuff.

    how did it go?
    1 Power mesmer counters thief

    A lie. A lie I pointed out to be a lie. Multiple times. So please, stop lying.

    2 Swipe to interrupt blocks is a waste

    This is objectively correct. If you save swipe (which you usually dont), you never save it for interrupting blocks. If you desperately want to interrupt blocks, youve got shortbow 4.

    3 Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    Likewise objectively correct. I explained it above.

    4 Backstab screenshots are fabricated

    The particular screenshot that was about was objectively fabricated. Which I proved. Repeatedly. But you got duped, and instead of admitting that you were naive and fell for a fake that just happens to fit your worldview, you doubled and tripled down on it. Pathetic.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Every1 keeps talking about holos and revs but people forgot how thief has been the best roamer class for the entire existence of the game with the exception of HoT launch where rev replaced thief for a few months. If you wanna play any sort of glass cannon roamer +1 spec thats not a thief well good luck because its not viable as soon as you re in plat and even less in at/mat.

    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable. just how the current side noders need nerfs to make other side noders more viable. Either nerf thief or buff some other specs that could fit the same role. Even power rev is dead now, every1 just went condi side node in tournaments and high tier pvp.

    So you want the most squishy, mediocre damage class in the game to not have the best mobility? Man I sure hope a-net hires you to manage balance, so I can finally quit this game.

    if you think thief is squishy try playing any other full zerker glass cannon build and see how fast you die compared to thief. you will get easely focused and die cuz you dont have an insta cast 1200 range teleport or stealth on demand and evades.

    Yeah, do that. And you will see that you dont die nearly as fast as the thief does if he doesnt instantly run away. Squishy doesnt mean "cant run away", it means "cant survive when fighting". If you remove thieves mobility, he cant even run away. What do you think that does to the class?

    Edit: Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed.

    the usual things that you type are kitten stupid but this one takes the cake

    " Oh and thief has far below average evades nowadays (basically 1 extra evade every 30 seconds, and maybe 1 evade in daggerstorm every 90, except most thieves dont run daggerstorm anymore), and "on demand stealth" is pretty useless in-combat, and just gets you killed. "
    holly molly dude

    Go ahead, point out where thats supposed to be false. Well actually there is one slight error. Its 1 extra evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Remember, the current thief build is D/P, which has no evade skills itself, using HiS which doesnt have evade, Blinding powder which doesnt have evade, shadowstep which doesnt have evade, signet of agility which is the one per 30 seconds I mentioned, and currently basilisk venom. Which, you guessed it! Aint got an evade.

    And yeah, in-combat stealth is bad for survivability. Weve been over this. The simple fact is that if the thief tries to stealth up mid-combat, he either gets ccd and killed, or just killed. Thats why thieves dont do it, if they want to survive, they run. If they couldnt run, they would just die.

    poor thief with only 3 dodges and perma stealth, cant even get some extra free dodges on his weapon sets, and has do spam blind to pressure people, oh the tragedy

    Why are you going off-topic? The question is, "is thieves survivability good?". Permastealth does nothing for survivability. Thieves currently do not "spam blind" (not that they could, initiative costs too high). So were left with active defenses. Which thief has very few of. 1 evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Mesmer blows that out of the water in, well, 16 seconds. So yes, thieves survivability is extremely awful. If they couldnt run away, they would always die.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.
    rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.
    thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long.

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long.

    Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all.

    So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow.

    you mean cele meta like this? ;)

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.
    rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.
    thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long.

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long.

    Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all.

    So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow.

    you mean cele meta like this? ;)

    That cant be the cele meta. The left team only has 1 ele instead of 4.

  • iKagura.1903iKagura.1903 Member ✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @hotte in space.2158 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    you forgot ranger

    if you were dying to ranger in cele meta, you were bad

    the meta for killing ranger is and always, double pressure cooldowns -> easy kill ... still the same thing. it's a free kill when pressured even over a necro especially now.

    ranger has only survived metas through gimmicks, not raw class potential like some classes have

    1. spirit ranger , put spirit in middle of map and res people on far / home
    2. druid , run zerker and heal like a support class
    3. soulbeast , absurd damage on tank with demolisher with 2 pet combos in melding

    i mean, these are gimmicks and the only reason was meta and was nerfed the quickest out of most professions. the longest spot a ranger has had was BM meta whn pets dealt absurd damage

    jacaranda should be nerfed soon also, because the aoe is broken on point.

    this isn't attacking thief though, just your broad assumption ranger has even had a chance to hold a spotlight next to thief in team/conquest necessity.

  • @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    Didn't it get nerfed like 2 patches ago?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    Didn't it get nerfed like 2 patches ago?

    Nope. Its still 6 initiative and still 900 range. They wont ever nerf it.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Why are you going off-topic? The question is, "is thieves survivability good?". Permastealth does nothing for survivability. Thieves currently do not "spam blind" (not that they could, initiative costs too high). So were left with active defenses. Which thief has very few of. 1 evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Mesmer blows that out of the water in, well, 16 seconds. So yes, thieves survivability is extremely awful. If they couldnt run away, they would always die.

    I imagine that the issue is that you're saying that the thief have bad survivability when in fact it's the specific build that you have in mind that do have bad survivability. The tools are there, you are free to take them but making a generalization based on a build that does not take those tools make people doubt your credibility.

  • Emapudapus.1307Emapudapus.1307 Member ✭✭✭

    Teleports requiring LoS would solve so much (not just thief) + chill affecting inititive/rev/war stuff.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Why are you going off-topic? The question is, "is thieves survivability good?". Permastealth does nothing for survivability. Thieves currently do not "spam blind" (not that they could, initiative costs too high). So were left with active defenses. Which thief has very few of. 1 evade at the start, and 1 every 30 seconds. Mesmer blows that out of the water in, well, 16 seconds. So yes, thieves survivability is extremely awful. If they couldnt run away, they would always die.

    I imagine that the issue is that you're saying that the thief have bad survivability when in fact it's the specific build that you have in mind that do have bad survivability. The tools are there, you are free to take them but making a generalization based on a build that does not take those tools make people doubt your credibility.

    Other builds fare not much better. The most survivable is probably staff daredevil, and its still outclassed by all other classes (and quite significantly so). There is a reason those tools do not see any use. Or in simpler terms, all theif builds have bad survivability. It just ranges from "unbelievably atrocious", which is D/P, to "really really bad", which is staff DD.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 30, 2020

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    Thief needs some nerfs in the next patch to make other roamers more viable.

    Okay, let's consider nerfing thief.

    What are we nerfing on thief? Shortbow range? Port distance?
    What will keep Thief playable post nerf, if other classes can fill the same roaming role? Are you planning to suggest making thief more durable so that it can contribute more to fights instead of being relegated to Decap/+1, in exchange for it being worse at decap/+1?

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief cant kill on 1x1 atm, so you want thief be slow, and/or take like 2min to kill on 2x1, right?
    wth someone would even play that class?

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I imagine that the issue is that you're saying that the thief have bad survivability when in fact it's the specific build that you have in mind that do have bad survivability. The tools are there, you are free to take them but making a generalization based on a build that does not take those tools make people doubt your credibility.

    Thieves has the worst survivablity on the game and by FAR. Maybe mes are as bas as thief on this matter.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @Lighter.5631 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    i can safely tell you thief has been meta for 7 years.
    rev/engi/guard also had very long up time, necro is less so, but none of them compete with thief. i can't remember thief being non meta except hot launch.
    thief has been one of my most played class simply because it is meta for so long.

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Skyronight.6370 said:
    not a single class has been viable for 7 years straight except thief. i wonder why....

    it's called the shortbow 5 syndrome. if the wiki's correct, it's amazing this skill has never been nerfed before. there were times where thief as a class was bad and weak, but still got played just because of its mobility.

    not just mobility, steal backstab is also too good at coordinating burst in team play. it's entire kit is just good for conquest. shortbow 5 alone without steal couldn't secure thief's spot for so long.

    Close but almost whole HoT until the end rev > thief and thief wasnt picked at all.

    So very close, there was also a cele meta with 2 medi hammer 2 dd cele ele and shoutbow.

    you mean cele meta like this? ;)

    That cant be the cele meta. The left team only has 1 ele instead of 4.

    that was past cele meta. but good try.

    rom was marauder with gs+hammer
    frae carrion
    tage bunker
    me normal

    the true cele meta was with cele rifle engi and nades
    dd ele cele
    shoutbow cele

    you see non there. i think even the eles in wts there ran something other than cele if im not mistaken since they nerfed cele before this tournament

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • montecristo.1324montecristo.1324 Member ✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    you see non there. i think even the eles in wts there ran something other than cele if im not mistaken since they nerfed cele before this tournament

    I think it was soldier dd ele at the time.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    Well they did nerf thief dmg pretty hard so now their way is to wait to outnumber em and smack em repeteadly

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 1, 2020

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    Well they did nerf thief dmg pretty hard so now their way is to wait to outnumber em and smack em repeteadly

    ? thief ate same nerfs as everyone else, about 33%
    edit with proof.
    Trick Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.55 to 0.366. -> 33% nerf in line
    Detonate Cluster Bomb (Cluster Bomb): Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.375. -> 25% nerf, less then most, becomes stronger compared to others
    Sneak Attack: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.36 to 0.3. -> 17% nerf, this is what cthief hits you with btw. wink wink
    Dancing Dagger: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45. -> 25% nerf
    Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6. -> 19,2% nerf, way less then others.
    Backstab: Reduced base power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.9. Reduced flanking power coefficient from 2.4 to 1.8. -> 25% nerf, actually stronger then pre patch compared to others lol
    Shadow Shot: Increased initiative cost from 4 to 5. -> no damage nerfs just 1 extra ini cost, at best 25% nerf right?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    Well they did nerf thief dmg pretty hard so now their way is to wait to outnumber em and smack em repeteadly

    ? thief ate same nerfs as everyone else, about 30%

    They never nerfed thief mobility and stealth re-application frequency...that's why thief has always been meta, they never touched what makes thief strong to play on the contrary of other profession, which at one point or another have seen their strong points severely affected by nerfs

    All the dmg nerfs talk are absolute BS talk because all dmg nerfs come with sustain nerfs to other professions, the number changes but thief is always in the same spot more or less

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    I doubt you play the game 7 years, or you actually play one of the real problematic classes.

    Necro
    Rev
    Engi
    Guard

    Always in conquest are top picks in one form or another

    But but but...thief can decap...lol...

    That is literally going to be your argument.

    Well they did nerf thief dmg pretty hard so now their way is to wait to outnumber em and smack em repeteadly

    ? thief ate same nerfs as everyone else, about 30%

    They never nerfed thief mobility and stealth re-application frequency...that's why thief has always been meta, they never touched what makes thief strong to play on the contrary of other profession, which at one point or another have seen their strong points severely affected by nerfs

    All the dmg nerfs talk are absolute BS talk because all dmg nerfs come with sustain nerfs to other professions, the number changes but thief is always in the same spot more or less

    I was not talking to you, I dont want to talk to you. Talking to you is not productive, please dont respond to my posts, thank you.

    I don't give in BS talk from people expecting to play Judge-jury and executioner with the only class they play ..that's all. I state facts and not once I cared if people like me or not on this forum , you should take your own advice and stop quoting my posts in other threads

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451
    here are your facts -> now we have a death carapace =600 toughness perma swifness dashing mobile fortress dealing upward 9k crits on medium armor targets
    take those "facts" and leave, and dont return