Idea how to make Druid playable in WvW.

Make Druid the Healer Version of Berserker.

Druid is only worth having around while in CA Form.Make it so Glyphs, while used in CA Form, extend the duration of CA.

Also (maybe) let both versions of the glyphs (CA and non CA) not share a cooldown.

Playable in squads/zergs? Could work.It's fairly decent in roaming at the moment.

The issue is the design, CA is just to heavily focused on healing (healing that can be used selfishly). Due to this fact ANet can't let CA run for long or have a good uptime.Since CA can't have a good uptime, you barely take the time to even consider using glyph in CA (especially since their effects are kinda redundant).And since out of CA glyphs aren't expecially attractive (High CD for trash effects), you just don't use them.

All in all, it's a dead end. Either ANet rethink the Avatar (which they won't) or they add meaningless buffs on glyphs over and over to give a feeling that they at least try.

@Dadnir.5038 said:The issue is the design, CA is just to heavily focused on healing (healing that can be used selfishly). Due to this fact ANet can't let CA run for long or have a good uptime.Since CA can't have a good uptime, you barely take the time to even consider using glyph in CA (especially since their effects are kinda redundant).And since out of CA glyphs aren't expecially attractive (High CD for trash effects), you just don't use them.

All in all, it's a dead end. Either ANet rethink the Avatar (which they won't) or they add meaningless buffs on glyphs over and over to give a feeling that they at least try.

I have a few comments here.

1) I really wish ANet gave the druid access to some more condis. I would like to run Staff on a Sage amulet. A slight dmg buff to Alignment, and giving a few condis to Staff 1 and 4 (burn, bleed and poison respectively) would go a long way in making the spec interesting.

2) Glyphs are ALMOST ok with Verdant Etching. Seed of Life does aoe blind which mitigates a lot of damage. With the upcoming buffs, I would slot 2-3 Glyphs if Lesser SoL got buffed to remove TWO condis. This way, you'd get some disruption from Equality and Alignment, plus blind, heal, weakness stunbreak, and good condi cleansing.

3) CA isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. It's only kinda bad now because they gutted the healing coefficients. CA 2, 3 and 5 are fairly high impact abilities. But CA needs some of its healing back. Recent buffs are a step in the right direction. Next week you'll be able to heal your teammates for 12k in 2 seconds. But most people won't slot Glyphs if they don't get good condo cleanse with the. Lesser SoL buff is necessary.

I see druid as a buffer/debuffer support-bunker hybrid. Mender's is already viable on druid, and will be better next week. I just wish we could go for a condi support build. Currently, we can only run a bad condi build with traps and Trapper, with almost zero healing/support capabilities.

@mistsim.2748 said:3) CA isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. It's only kinda bad now because they gutted the healing coefficients. CA 2, 3 and 5 are fairly high impact abilities. But CA needs some of its healing back. Recent buffs are a step in the right direction. Next week you'll be able to heal your teammates for 12k in 2 seconds. But most people won't slot Glyphs if they don't get good condo cleanse with the. Lesser SoL buff is necessary.

I see druid as a buffer/debuffer support-bunker hybrid. Mender's is already viable on druid, and will be better next week. I just wish we could go for a condi support build. Currently, we can only run a bad condi build with traps and Trapper, with almost zero healing/support capabilities.

I don't make CA look terrible, I say that CA is to focused on healing which force ANet to heavily limit it's access in order to prevent Druid from having the possibility to gain to much sustain. The point is that next week you'll be able to heal You and your teammates for 12k in 2 seconds.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:3) CA isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. It's only kinda bad now because they gutted the healing coefficients. CA 2, 3 and 5 are fairly high impact abilities. But CA needs some of its healing back. Recent buffs are a step in the right direction. Next week you'll be able to heal your teammates for 12k in 2 seconds. But most people won't slot Glyphs if they don't get good condo cleanse with the. Lesser SoL buff is necessary.

I see druid as a buffer/debuffer support-bunker hybrid. Mender's is already viable on druid, and will be better next week. I just wish we could go for a condi support build. Currently, we can only run a bad condi build with traps and Trapper, with almost zero healing/support capabilities.

But 12k in 2 seconds isnt even that much.And how often can you do that?

Also burst healing was never that important in WvW because if a player needs burst healing, then he fucked up by eating a burst AND survived it somehow AND the enemy doesnt follow up on it.

Having lots of small healing if far better in almost every single scenario.

If Burst Healing would be needed, Ventari Rev would be Meta. But its not.

Firebrand.Tempest.Scrapper.

None of them have strong burst healing.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:But 12k in 2 seconds isnt even that much.And how often can you do that?

Also burst healing was never that important in WvW because if a player needs burst healing, then he kitten up by eating a burst AND survived it somehow AND the enemy doesnt follow up on it.

Having lots of small healing if far better in almost every single scenario.

If Burst Healing would be needed, Ventari Rev would be Meta. But its not.

Firebrand.Tempest.Scrapper.

None of them have strong burst healing.

None of them are especially balanced. The druid had it's healing nerfed because coupled with it's mobility it give him high survivability. ANet bringing back a bit of heal is just denying the fondamental issue of the design. Just like they deny the fondamental issue of the shade mechanism for scourge or the fondamental issue of FB. It's just bandaid fixs which are bound to lead to further bandaid fixs until they break the mechanism to take a breather.

In my opinion:For large/medium scale fights, stab + aegis is often what you want first. There's a reason you wont find many healing eles anymore, they are just not needed. If you are in an ok group with a FB and a cleansbot Engie or Rev you are pretty much set there. A firebrand who camps Tome of Resolve is pretty much unmatched in this area already.

Could work in smaller roaming groups, or in a second tag group that often lacks support.

@Magnuzone.8395 said:In my opinion:For large/medium scale fights, stab + aegis is often what you want first. There's a reason you wont find many healing eles anymore, they are just not needed. If you are in an ok group with a FB and a cleansbot Engie or Rev you are pretty much set there. A firebrand who camps Tome of Resolve is pretty much unmatched in this area already.

Could work in smaller roaming groups, or in a second tag group that often lacks support.

After now almost 8 years, all i want for ranger is a viable zerg build.

It doesnt have to be top tier meta kitten.

Just enough to not make ranger a burden.

deleted

@"Acyk.9671" said:so maybe nerfing scrapper is easier?? jk

To take that joke a bit further, taking Purity of Purpose away from them and adding it to Nature Magic for rangers would go a long way to even out scrapper and druid for blob fights. Scrapper/engie is already stacked with superspeed, better mobile cleanse potential and stealth + other useful albeit niche tools.

That trade is obviously never gonna happen, BUT Anet needs to start looking at core ranger and Nature Magic in particular if druid is gonna be "viable" in zergs. Because there is no way they are going to buff druid alone to the point where it makes up for core ranger pretty much bringing nothing useful except immobs and healing spring. Invigorating Bond should have been kicked out of the game years ago and replaced with a useful support trait that doesn't rely on the pet's F2. Evasive Purity needs to be AoE cleanse, not just self cleanse, similarly to the ele water trait. Add in spotter, Quickdraw utility and shorter cooldown on HS from Skirmishing, and you have a decent baseline before druid comes in.

Druid itself needs refinement. Glyph of the Stars was a step in the right direction in terms of adding good support utility, but in typical Anet fashion it is designed in the most clunky way possible. GotS needs to function like a scrapper gyro/well OR it needs to be placed similarly to the FB tome skills without leaving the druid channeling it for 7 seconds.

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Acyk.9671 said:so maybe nerfing scrapper is easier?? jk

You know, changing Empathic Bond to make 80% of all condi duration go onto the pet, for a whole party, even if its defeated, would be pretty decent actually. The Druid loses access to its pet (which it basically already does in zerg play) but it also provides a huge - condi duration buff at the same time.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Acyk.9671 said:so maybe nerfing scrapper is easier?? jk

I think that's another very passive trait which would not benefit at all the gameplay. Not all specs need to be meta in all game modes, i am fine with druid being just a PvE thing.At least until it gets a full rework so it can synergize better with the game loop of WvW and sPvP.

For now i would be happy if Soulbeast would get a real spot in the WvW meta. In sPvP we could say it's fine right now, a bit too much in the low end for my taste but it's still playable.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@Acyk.9671 said:so maybe nerfing scrapper is easier?? jk

There is nothing inherently wrong with passive traits.Druid works just fine in WvW, we have been running it in our zerg comp and its quite good.Immobeast is a fine addition to any zerg, you just need people who want to use it and put it in with the Commanders party.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:There is nothing inherently wrong with passive traits.Any passive trait is a lazy addition which greatly limites build diversity and those should not exists in any PvP game. Otherwise feel free to share a passive trait in GW2 which is not oppresive to build variety or other players.

I still don't get why anybody would use soulbeats for immob build when druid brings so much more to that build. Not like stances benefit immobilise in any shape or form.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:There is nothing inherently wrong with passive traits.Any passive trait is a lazy addition which greatly limites build diversity and those should not exists in any PvP game. Otherwise feel free to share a passive trait in GW2 which is not oppresive to build variety or other players.

Passive traits are 100% necessary, without them there would be almost zero build diversity. You can't create a build around button presses, there are only so many buttons to press.

Straight off the top of my head;Any trait that gives an effect from critical hits.Any trait that gives an effect from the target or yourself being at a certain health %.Any trait that gives an effect for weapons or skills while using those skills or weapons.Any trait that gives an effect to essentially anything, conditionally.Fortifying Bond.Extra stats for pets if traited with BM.That should do for now.

Soulbeast is used for two reasons;

1. Stances can be shared, removing and then giving the party immunity to immobilise and Stability. Plus, Bear.
2. Soulbeast does more damage than Druid.

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:There is nothing inherently wrong with passive traits.Any passive trait is a lazy addition which greatly limites build diversity and those should not exists in any PvP game. Otherwise feel free to share a passive trait in GW2 which is not oppresive to build variety or other players.

1. Stances can be shared, removing and then giving the party
   immunity
   to immobilise and Stability. Plus, Bear.
2. Soulbeast does more damage than Druid.

So you are using a support* soulbeast with immobilize skills when at this moment Druid could do much better.

Share stances is trash tier at the moment. 4s doylak or 3s bear every 30s is of not relevance in team combat.Unless you go glass with that support soulbeast the difference in damage will make no difference and Ancient seeds is a 10s CD AoE immobilise, and with druid you can go full zerker and have better survivability .

• support soulbeast is not a thing in squad combat, if you need those petty stances in your squad you need to replace all the scrappers, firebrands, tempests and spellbreakers as they are just afk while autoing.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:There is nothing inherently wrong with passive traits.Any passive trait is a lazy addition which greatly limites build diversity and those should not exists in any PvP game. Otherwise feel free to share a passive trait in GW2 which is not oppresive to build variety or other players.

1. Stances can be shared, removing and then giving the party
   immunity
   to immobilise and Stability. Plus, Bear.
2. Soulbeast does more damage than Druid.

• support soulbeast is not a thing in squad combat, if you need those petty stances in your squad you need to replace all the scrappers, firebrands, tempests and spellbreakers as they are just afk while autoing.

Ok i guess you using memes like this is twiter makes you the big brain here. Still you havent rebuted anything i said.

-Get rid of the CA form resource entirely-Make it a toggle-Change druid skills so that they only heal others, not the Druid himself-Change CA 1 to a melee radius aoe rather than the ranged, time lag impact skill it is now-Adjust the rest of CA form skills power accordingly

Problem solved

Pet is still useless in a zerg but at least druid becomes a reliable sustainable heal bot that's needed in WvW

@Substance E.4852 said:-Get rid of the CA form resource entirely-Make it a toggle-Change druid skills so that they only heal others, not the Druid himself-Change CA 1 to a melee radius aoe rather than the ranged, time lag impact skill it is now-Adjust the rest of CA form skills power accordingly

Problem solved

Pet is still useless in a zerg but at least druid becomes a reliable sustainable heal bot that's needed in WvWI don't know why i think the staff to target allies (other players or the pet) instead enemies would be a fun change of pace. While roaming the Druid would target the pet with Staff#2 to burn the enemies around the pet and Staff#1 to burn them playing cross the line with them.Staff would need to have returned some buffs lost, like a reduced CD in Staff#3 and the return of the evade plus it would need to apply long duration burning in Staff#1 and a short but bursting burning with staff#2. Staff#4 to apply the ancient roots effect (and delete that trait from the game) .

And druid could be fun to play, different than any other class in game but fun.

Also the CA skills would need to become PbAoE (Aoe around the druid) like you suggested but it should also heal the Druid.Maybe reduce the healing but give the druid a very strong Outgoing healing minor trait instead ( Lingering Light should be returned to the Beta trait and the actual effect should replace Natural Mender )

All the Glyphs to work like the Glyph of Unity (Tethers to enemies/allies) and provide pulsing effects. It can even have the first pulse to trigger with 1s delay to give some counterplay and also have better effects ( as that 1s should give enough time to the target to move away and break the tether) .

Thus a pulsing Daze could be implemented. The spec would be fun and unique still having very strong connection to the pets in a different way, which is what the ranger was all about (pet mechanics, throwable traps, mobile spirits with unique buffs...) .

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:-Get rid of the CA form resource entirely-Make it a toggle-Change druid skills so that they only heal others, not the Druid himself-Change CA 1 to a melee radius aoe rather than the ranged, time lag impact skill it is now-Adjust the rest of CA form skills power accordingly

Problem solved

Pet is still useless in a zerg but at least druid becomes a reliable sustainable heal bot that's needed in WvWI don't know why i think the staff to target allies (other players or the pet) instead enemies would be a fun change of pace. While roaming the Druid would target the pet with Staff#2 to burn the enemies around the pet and Staff#1 to burn them playing cross the line with them.Staff would need to have returned some buffs lost, like a reduced CD in Staff#3 and the return of the evade plus it would need to apply long duration burning in Staff#1 and a short but bursting burning with staff#2. Staff#4 to apply the ancient roots effect (and delete that trait from the game) .

The main reason I suggested getting rid of self heals is that Druid's problem has always seemed to stem from the fact that it gave much more sustain to a class that already had solid survival which lead to obvious problems in pvp, causing anet to end up shaving off so much of it that it's no longer really any good

Pretty much the same way "sic em" on SB has caused LB burst to go to the moon and bring back nerfs to everything else

There might be a way to make self sustaining druids balanced in a functional way but it's gonna require more theory crafting on skill and trait reworks than I'm willing to put in tbh

Also, in the format I'm picturing, it's not something you bring to a solo fight anyway so you're going to be relying on team members to support you most of the time as you heal spam

@"Substance E.4852" said:The main reason I suggested getting rid of self heals is that Druid's problem has always seemed to stem from the fact that it gave much more sustain to a class that already had solid survival which lead to obvious problems in pvp, causing anet to end up shaving off so much of it that it's no longer really any good

Pretty much the same way "sic em" on SB has caused LB burst to go to the moon and bring back nerfs to everything else

There might be a way to make self sustaining druids balanced in a functional way but it's gonna require more theory crafting on skill and trait reworks than I'm willing to put in tbh

Also, in the format I'm picturing, it's not something you bring to a solo fight anyway so you're going to be relying on team members to support you most of the time as you heal spamAgreed. It is really easy to see how a healer class can go full ham in zerker gear and because of the heals (and other problematic mechanics like the easy access to stealth and the immobs from the trait) the class is so difficult to balance.

Unfortunately removing all self healing while in CA can be problematic for the Druid as during that time the druid would be a punching bag with no resources to self-sustain.

That's why i'm pointing out to keep the self healing applied now is fine and to make the trait effects Lingering Light for outgoing heals to allies to make them baseline for the Druid. So the heals to allies are powerful enough to have them into consideration without bunkering the Druid up again.

About the Soulbeast the problem with Sic'Em is not the damage buff itself which is fine, but the fact all the damage buffs can be used indiscriminately for ranged weapons. If they were to have implemented the damage as: "The soulbeast get this X damage increased to targets within 600 units" the extra multipliers would be fine: The soulbeast has access to a burst while in close combat but can not pewpew from the tower from 100 to 0. It is not like there are many traits wich needs adjustment: Sic'em, Furious Strength , Twice as Vicious,Oppressive Superiority, Maul (merged).

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:The main reason I suggested getting rid of self heals is that Druid's problem has always seemed to stem from the fact that it gave much more sustain to a class that already had solid survival which lead to obvious problems in pvp, causing anet to end up shaving off so much of it that it's no longer really any good

Pretty much the same way "sic em" on SB has caused LB burst to go to the moon and bring back nerfs to everything else

There might be a way to make self sustaining druids balanced in a functional way but it's gonna require more theory crafting on skill and trait reworks than I'm willing to put in tbh

Also, in the format I'm picturing, it's not something you bring to a solo fight anyway so you're going to be relying on team members to support you most of the time as you heal spamAgreed. It is really easy to see how a healer class can go full ham in zerker gear and because of the heals (and other problematic mechanics like the easy access to stealth and the immobs from the trait) the class is so difficult to balance.

Just let the selfheal in CA scale with how many allies the druid heals.