I am quite happy with nerfs...

... as it finally gave me reason to transfer viper equip to my Mirage and play it yesterday evening. And it was actually quite fun.So GJ AN - if your target was to force me play different class you have succeeded 100% :)

Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

@Maunzi.3764 said:Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

There's no supposed bad spec.

If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

Actually it wasn't. It was potent, yes but what it need was more creative ways to counter it. Such as making it's tells easier to see. Maybe a small delay in pvp. But the Nerf was beyond extreme.

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Maunzi.3764 said:Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

People said it was bad. I'm not saying it is bad, it's actually quite fun. Worded that wrong.

If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.

This is a PVE topic. It's about playing WITH other people there. Stop thinking with your pants, okay?

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

The Shade stacking was a bug-fix according to Anet yes, But let me ask u : did u read here before u posted ? Cause u clearly missed the NERFS to MSS duration uptime, the increased CD on Nefarious Favor and that complete gutting of Dhuumfire, or do u call all those also bug-fixes ?

My main question is if this was a bug why wasn't it fixed before PoF release? Or immediately after? Feels ripped off

@Shazmataz.1423 said:My main question is if this was a bug why wasn't it fixed before PoF release? Or immediately after? Feels ripped off

The problem here being that Anet let the bug go unfixed for so long that players assumed that MSS overlapping and Desert Shroud behavior was an intended mechanic. I mean, good on them for correcting that, but geez that's almost a 20% nerf as a result of the fix.

On top of that I don't see why the duration was halved in PvP and WvW in addition to the bug fix. I mean, I don't play those game modes but from what I read a Scourge camping a point with 3 shades meant /gg for the opposing team. Now that overlapping has been normalized what was the point in the shade duration cut?

PvE-wise, what's the niche of Scourge? Sure, having low damage can be fine. E.G. Mirage excels in fights like Cairn and Matthias despite being on the bottom of the list. So, where does Scourge excel now? Epidemic? At that point it would almost be better to just roll Reaper since the rotation is easier even with the awkward chill field dependency.

So yeah, until Scourge gets some sort of buff or "wow" factor it's back to being shelved I guess.

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Maunzi.3764 said:Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

[ Violent laughter from all Renegades ]

@Shazmataz.1423 said:My main question is if this was a bug why wasn't it fixed before PoF release? Or immediately after? Feels ripped off

Whoa man, do you think that there is time to test things once they are out of the spreadsheets? That's crazy talk.

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:... as it finally gave me reason to transfer viper equip to my Mirage and play it yesterday evening. And it was actually quite fun.So GJ AN - if your target was to force me play different class you have succeeded 100% :)

something is making me think about swapping everything over to a mesmer. Tank, power dps, party boons, now condi spec, abilities in pvp and wvw that no one else has, desirable in raids and open world stuff. ..... the lone necro always hoping and getting a taste of greatness only to be brought down again

@"Almost in War.9326" said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

That would be so nice but remember we were also told they would not buff us back to the place we were (aka not breaking the meters but towards the top) because we're "heavy support". AKA in ArenaNet's eyes we offered the same level of support at a cPS warrior, druid, auramancer or chrono.

@Lily.1935 said:

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

Not a nerf. It was a fix. A much needed fix due to sheer condi spam application you could get off with no tell and on instant cast abilities. Everyone KNEW this was bugged, Anet themselves even said that there was unintended actions happening and that it would be fixed. This isn't something new. Damaging for PvE, Yes. Much needed for WvW and PvP.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

Sadly scourges are still amazing in PvP and WvW the only place they got truly crushed was PvE where no one really thought they were broken. Therein lies the problem, scourges were broken in PvE and the fixes didn't really address the issues in PvP, so without being a jerk it really seems like they needed to think through their changes a bit more first.

I discovered the joy that is Firebrand. Group quickness, aegis & stability, with top tier DPS to boot. Now thats heavy support. And the best part is you don't need Vipers gear, you can be perfectly effective in cheapo Carrion or Rampagers.

@Atticus.7194 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

I would think the duration reduction and overlap fix cause a hit in Scourge though? As in no more condi bombs if you stack your shades and they go poof if half the time they used to if you're using them remote.

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

The problem is our initial dps was reduced in beta without fixing the bugs first. Then it went live as such, people rightly complained about the bugs, and the bugs were fixed without taking the effect on dps into account. It's understandable that the balance patch is yet to come but by making changes in this order Scourge was denied the benefit of a pre launch balance pass while working as intended. That there were actual balance changes but only where Scourge was strong adds insult to injury.

Yes, the bug fixes and nerfs were warranted. Other classes are hurting too. That doesn't make the situation any less frustrating.

Double post please delete

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Maunzi.3764 said:Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

@Refia Montes.3205 said:

@Maunzi.3764 said:Mirage even does more damage. Significantly more. I'm hitting numbers on Cairn, Samarog and KC that I was hitting on scourge before the nerf. And Mirage's supposed to be the bad spec.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7713/can-we-have-an-official-response-please#latestJust because you asked. See the last 2 comments.

@Atticus.7194 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Lily.1935 said:

@Almost in War.9326 said:If you played Scourge just because it was broken and op, I'm more than happy you HAD to change profession. Scourge was not fun to play against.Also this was a bug fix, not a balance. That will come and they've already said they will balance him.

Because of their F skills being instant cast, no tell or anything doesnt really help things, i can see them being given some sort of tell or maybe a cast time. Its too much of pressing as them as soon as you place the shade and then just going to town with the F skills, then going to town with Scepter and Torch before returning to the F skills again. Too much bombing, too much of the time. Though this is something ALL condition builds have - Too much Condi burst with very little cool down before the next condi bomb burst.