Don't you just hate being the hero all the time? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Lore

Don't you just hate being the hero all the time?

Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭

I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

I'm Hunter, he/him
Character infos: https://is-it-because-im-charr.tumblr.com/charactersgw2

Comments

  • Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel the same, to be honest. I'd like a game that is similar to Soul Nomad and the World Eaters and Undertale, where your morality is completely reliant on how you act and react to situations. In Soul Nomad it's like: Old lady that forces this stuff on me? Dead. That budding family that used to love me? Slaughtered. The dying world? I'll destroy it and everyone in it and become a god of the world I created. Same thing with Undertale: Aww, look at that cute lil' frog. Dead. How about this horse..dead...what about the bunny rabb-dead. Even the "heroes" die (sometimes in awful ways.) So, yes, moral ambiguity would be interesting.

    "How so big the sea hills how so deep the blue beneath.
    Hail from the main and comest thou home."

    Sigrdrífumál
    Նոտ ենուղ պատիենծե

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Impactful choices means more work for Devs.

    And also taking longer to push out updates.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    Even in Orr, there's literally a quest where you end up doing something bad - Depending on the option you pick when talking to the Pale Tree. You either kill a civillian scientist (You push the button to detonate the bombs), you take away the only thing preventing your comrade becoming Risen (Due to being adamant that you and only you can deliver it to Fort Trinity, leaving your comrade to be captured and then turned) or you give the order to shell a Vigil squadron (Albeit due to a mesmer illusion, though, it still underpins the fact that you were too trigger happy to bother scouting... Heck, what if there was an Eye of Zhaitan there to incur a massive counter attack?)

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
    I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

    Some of the issues of being a villain in RPG's include:

    • The extra resources it would require to flesh out multiple story paths, which would depend a lot on choices you make. Which is why most RPG's with a moral choice system still just follow a single linear path but give you options to be a kitten or be nice when interacting with people.
      Which is why the best "Moral Choice" games are ones that simply allow you some freedom to ignore the narrative and create your own (Such as modding Skyrim or Fallout 3/NV to allow you to kill any character, though FO3 does actually include the option to nuke a town for money... Or games like Risen 1 which allow you to kill most NPC's anyway)

    • The more ambiguous nature of a villanous story. When being a hero, the story is easy to manipulate, since the goal is always to defeat the antagonist. It doesn't matter the scope of the antagonist, just that there is one. It could be something as inocuous as "Who's stealing the chickens from the farm?" to "The big bad trying to destroy the world"
      Meanwhile, being the antagonist, there's no similar drive for the narrative. Your goal as an antagonist isn't really to defeat the protagonist, it's to fulfil your personal desire with the protagonist just popping up every now and then to try and stop you. As such, it's much harder to progress a story and even harder to try and truly encapture a wider audiences desire for being an antagonist, since maybe some people want to just steal things and become rich? Maybe some people want to destroy the world? Maybe some people want to just corrupt world leaders and create anarchy? How would you create a story narrative that allows all these things and more to be the end goal?

    It's really hard to create a good narrative that enables a villanous PC, hence why such games are few and far between. At best you can get Anti-Heros or Vigilantes which do the right thing in morally questionable ways (I think the closest we've really seen to "Villain" is God of War series, where Kratos goes on a god-killing rampage fueled by the desire to kill the God of War, Ares after he killed Kratos' family)

    Cat: Meow.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    I disagree. The real world is full of villains and corruption to the point where it's seriously frustrating. That's why i want justice to prevail at least in fictional universes, and therefore i very much like playing the hero in videogames. :)

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    No, I'm fine with playing as the hero. What's the fun in being a super villain?

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2 is a MMO, if you want that kind of thing, play a single player game...dont expect the kind of freedom of choice you have in games like Witcher, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc in game like this...even then, most of those games you will not play as a villain...the closer to a villain protagonist with actual good story would be Legacy of Kain series, but those games are old as hell.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2020

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 5, 2020

    It really is questionable what a hero is to begin with.
    From the standpoint of demons, it's usually their conquering King that is the hero, while the blonde right-handed (unless it's pre-Wii Link) boy with his god-blessed holy Sword is the villain.

    I bet the Sons of Svanir consider the PC to be the villain.
    Even Joko considered (although possibly as a joke) us to be a worse villain than he considered himself.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Even Joko considered (although possibly as a joke) us to be a worse villain than he considered himself.

    Oh he was definitely not telling full truths there. Chief among them was the whole "why do you think they believed that I, a villain, would ruin the world by killing two Elder Dragons? Because it was an act of villainy!" spiel. I mean...
    1) Average Tyrians still don't know (as evidenced by Dragon Bash dialogue) that killing Elder Dragons = killing the world.
    2) Elonians are the only ones who believed him and did so because he was running dystopic brainwashed nation conditioned to believe whatever he said.

    And he would know these, because no Elonian ever mentioned killing dragons is bad, especially when praising Joko for such actions. And he either would know Tyrians don't think he killed the ED, or was be smart enough to doubt they'd put the deeds on him.

    He knew killing Elder Dragons was considered a heroic deed, even if he also knew killing Elder Dragons would destabilize the world.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    that is saying that a single bullet is a WMD, because the powder could also be used in a bomb. And didn't people in other threads claim, that there are no charr civilians?

    Anyway, blowing up a military lab doing weapon research, does not sound as much as 'war crime'. Instead it sounds like 'taking out a valid target'.

  • necromaniac.7629necromaniac.7629 Member ✭✭✭

    same, i want to be an evil genius :)

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2020

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    that is saying that a single bullet is a WMD, because the powder could also be used in a bomb. And didn't people in other threads claim, that there are no charr civilians?

    Anyway, blowing up a military lab doing weapon research, does not sound as much as 'war crime'. Instead it sounds like 'taking out a valid target'.

    Last I checked, gunpowder doesn't cause irreperable damage to the environment for centuries. And the word "citizen" is used quite a bit in Black Citadel, so Charr civilians clearly do exist, most of them seem to be researchers, merchants and traders.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • Antycypator.9874Antycypator.9874 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly, in Open World, I don't feel like my character is a hero. Just... everyone wants to kill me. Everyone hates the Commander, from flying octopus, to a common bandits and skritt.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • MarzAttakz.9608MarzAttakz.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    WE all need a little more Scarlett in our virtual lives...

    Deso since 2012. Elementalist for life.
    [EXG][TAG]

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Play less story and more open world, there you can be as less hero as you like.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even if they are forced to follow the "nice" path for the main story, they could make side quests or achievs to award "faction titles", I mean titles like "Icebrood", "Awakened", "Nightmare courtier" or "Bandit"... "Inquest employee" and so on...
    What If we have more representation buttons or badges.... you see in addition of pvp leagues ones, you could have one representing the faction you prefer to appear next your character name....

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The best solution I found currently is to consider that the ls episodes and expansions not played by my toon never happened: my last toon never went into maguuma or the desert. Rata primus never self destruct, kralkatorrik isn't dead, aurene isn't born. Mordry is alive. I pick the episodes I want.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
    I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

    If you haven't yet experienced them, I recommend the Fallout games: 1, 2, 3 and New Vegas. By Fallout 4 you are forced to be the good guy.

    But on topic, the Commander almost brought Tyria to "havoc" by killing Dragons, so it isn't as if the Commander is a perfect hero, and even the most Lawful Good amongst us wanted to kitten-slap Braham a couple of times back in S4 ^_^

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2020

    @hugo.4705 said:
    The best solution I found currently is to consider that the ls episodes and expansions not played by my toon never happened: my last toon never went into maguuma or the desert. Rata primus never self destruct, kralkatorrik isn't dead, aurene isn't born. Mordry is alive. I pick the episodes I want.

    Does that mean, that character stagnated after harassing Zhaitan to death?

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @hugo.4705 said:
    The best solution I found currently is to consider that the ls episodes and expansions not played by my toon never happened: my last toon never went into maguuma or the desert. Rata primus never self destruct, kralkatorrik isn't dead, aurene isn't born. Mordry is alive. I pick the episodes I want.

    Does that mean, that character stagnated after harassing Zhaitan to death?

    Well, kinda, but you can imagine, that wandering in maps or doing RPs is what your "commander" is doing since zhaithan, you fill the story with what you do. Example, instead of going after dragons, you keep solving local threats.

    It is cannon, my toon never did ls1 so no scarlet so no mordry or aurene, no bangar dominion or kralkatorrik.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    that is saying that a single bullet is a WMD, because the powder could also be used in a bomb. And didn't people in other threads claim, that there are no charr civilians?

    Anyway, blowing up a military lab doing weapon research, does not sound as much as 'war crime'. Instead it sounds like 'taking out a valid target'.

    Last I checked, gunpowder doesn't cause irreperable damage to the environment for centuries. And the word "citizen" is used quite a bit in Black Citadel, so Charr civilians clearly do exist, most of them seem to be researchers, merchants and traders.

    and with gun powder you mean the stuff used for the last 130years? Because that stuff does horrendous things to the environment.

    Anyway, it was a military lab doing military research. That is a valid target.

  • vier.1327vier.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    How many people has the commander killed during his adventure?

    I mean, if you think about it, maybe we are truly the bad guy.

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    What? There were no civilians on No Quarter, were did you got that?? Everyone that you killed were Charrs that defected to the Dominion forces...

  • Felipe.1807Felipe.1807 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @vier.1327 said:
    How many people has the commander killed during his adventure?

    I mean, if you think about it, maybe we are truly the bad guy.

    Think this way, how many people would had died if my Norn Commander decided to instead of go out and become a adventurer just stayed his whole day driking on Hoelbrak? He would never become the Slayer of Issomir and never meet Eir, would not become a menber of one of the Orders, would never meet Trahearne, the Pact would not exist, Zhaitan would never be stopped, etc...so no, the Commander is not a mindless murderer killing everything on sigh, people can twist as much as they want, but in the end the PC is one of the "good guys".

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 8, 2020

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @Felipe.1807 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    If you think the PC is the hero all the time you haven't been keeping up with the story. They're a military leader who has made many mistakes and lead many people (hundreds, if not thousands) to their deaths. And that's just in the Pact & Dragon's Watch storylines, in open-world you also do alot of very questionable things even just for regular hearts and events here and there.

    At best, the PC is an anti-hero, especially after commiting a warcrime in No Quarter.

    How is the PC a anti-hero in No Quarter? Which warcrime that we commited?

    The "grenade" that they throw down in a science lab and kill a bunch of civilians (not soldiers) was a fragment of a Searing Crystal, which was what the Flame Legion used to destroy Ascalon and is considered the equivalent to a WMD in Tyria.

    What? There were no civilians on No Quarter, were did you got that?? Everyone that you killed were Charrs that defected to the Dominion forces...

    It was established that the people in the bunker were scientists, not soldiers, aside from one Ash spy. Civilians serve alongside the military all the time in the real world. It still doesn't make them military, and killing them is generally illegal.

    Granted, the Charr seem to have no conventions for war (as seen by Smodur outright killing defectors), but the PC is not always Charr, and if they are Charr they're technically a gladium (most of your warband died or defected) and they're no longer part of the Legions, having moved on long ago to the Orders, the Pact, and Dragon's Watch, and thus is generally held to a racially-neutral standard.

    Also, they're not villains, no matter how much it seems so to us; they're acting under their Imperator's rule.

    Remember that these Charr have friends and families and the PC (or Rytlock) will be held responsible for their deaths. That's exactly why we don't outright kill Bangar or Ryland, because its not our place to do so, and it'd create alot of problems.

    That's not even taking into account civilian or military status or the use of a Searing Crystal.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 15k hours, ~27k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Alisha Kei/Druid(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW)

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    It was established that the people in the bunker were scientists, not soldiers, aside from one Ash spy. Civilians serve alongside the military all the time in the real world. It still doesn't make them military, and killing them is generally illegal.

    Granted, the Charr seem to have no conventions for war (as seen by Smodur outright killing defectors), but the PC is not always Charr, and if they are Charr they're technically a gladium (most of your warband died or defected) and they're no longer part of the Legions, having moved on long ago to the Orders, the Pact, and Dragon's Watch, and thus is generally held to a racially-neutral standard.

    Also, they're not villains, no matter how much it seems so to us; they're acting under their Imperator's rule.

    Remember that these Charr have friends and families and the PC (or Rytlock) will be held responsible for their deaths. That's exactly why we don't outright kill Bangar or Ryland, because its not our place to do so, and it'd create alot of problems.

    That's not even taking into account civilian or military status or the use of a Searing Crystal.

    But, you know, they were part of the enemy forces in the middle of a war zone doing scientific research to create weapons for the enemy army. That's military enough for me. Even if they were not exactly villains, they were still enemies. Had we blown up a hospital, now that would be seriously ugly, detestable and war-crime-ish. But a weapon lab is a military target even if you buy the kitten about group of charr (the ultra military nation) in the middle of war field not being soldiers.

    As for "friends and families" - you can say that about every single sapient (non minion) mob we've ever cut down. And that's not even speaking about the fact that these dudes might even have betrayed said friends to join Bangar...

    Did it feel bad to "sear" them? Hell it did, at least for me/my PC. However it's just one more piece of mulch on the quite big pile he's bearing on his shoulders by now.

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is why I always hold off on inventing a backstory for my character (or adding to the one they have) until I know what kind of story the game offers and what's going to be imposed on me. I made that mistake with Baldur's Gate - creating a new backstory for my character which proved totally incompatible with the game's storyline. Especially for 'evil' characters since even in games which allow that you usually have to do the main storyline to get anywhere and your options are likely to be limited.

    Sometimes I've had a really cool idea for a character which just wouldn't work at all in the game which inspired it because the game story or mechanics don't allow for it (for example it requires them to have a specific personality in a game with very limited/no dialogue options) and then I end up holding onto it until I find a game where it will work. or in some cases saving it for pen-and-paper or free-form roleplaying because that's the only format where I can make it work.

    I don't like to completely ignore the games story (unless it's a very open-ended game where that makes sense, and then only for alts), I much prefer to work around it, adding to what's already there rather than trying to overwrite it or getting frustrated when I can't.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "You can run like a river, Till you end up in the sea
    And you run till night is black, And keep on going in your dreams
    And you know all the long while, It's the journey that you seek
    It's the miles of moving forward, With the wind beneath your wings"

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    It was established that the people in the bunker were scientists, not soldiers, aside from one Ash spy. Civilians serve alongside the military all the time in the real world. It still doesn't make them military, and killing them is generally illegal.

    Granted, the Charr seem to have no conventions for war (as seen by Smodur outright killing defectors), but the PC is not always Charr, and if they are Charr they're technically a gladium (most of your warband died or defected) and they're no longer part of the Legions, having moved on long ago to the Orders, the Pact, and Dragon's Watch, and thus is generally held to a racially-neutral standard.

    Also, they're not villains, no matter how much it seems so to us; they're acting under their Imperator's rule.

    A big "eh" from me on these fronts. Modern mercenaries are civilians as well, but I think the nature of their participation in conflicts means they are valid targets. Scientists working on military projects - not even 'science that might be used for military application' but 'weapon to be used in the current conflict right outside this bunker's door' - bear the same risks, imo. Such individuals' work could easily surpass any gun-toting mercenary's impact, when it comes to destructiveness and strategic importance. All of that makes them prime targets. If capture is not feasible, ending their projects violently seems perfectly reasonable within a war.

    If there's any objection about the whole bunker sequence, I guess it would be that there was no spec ops capture option. I think they could have made it very interesting. If the Commander, after finding out what the bunker was, insisted on leading a team to breach the facility and capture the workers, you could have had a story branch there where one of the researchers escapes with a prototype that adds to the difficulty of the story fight later on. Ultimately the narrative result would be the same (all the bad guys get theirs, courtesy of the Commander) but it would still offer us a meaningful choice.

    I personally had no problems with the Commander dropping a grenade into an enemy weapons development facility. I actually resented that my character seemed so horrified.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Play as Charr and bully the humans out of Ascalon.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
    I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

    I wish we were a nobody, just one more faceless soldier. The whole Commander thing is one of the game's worst story decisions, if not the very worst.

    Having NPC companions such as the Steel Warband would feel far better than having a team of superheroes working with us too. The Marvel mentality approach to narrative of these last years is an absolute cancer to storytelling. We need to go back to the likes of the Lord of the Rings as a reference.

  • Jimbru.6014Jimbru.6014 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't mind being the hero. What I do mind is not being treated like a hero. After all, The Commander has "only" led the way in saving the world about half a dozen times by this point, so I'd appreciate it greatly if characters like Anise and Rytlock would start keeping their backhanded "compliments" and negative "jokes" to themselves. As Jormag suggested, it's time The Commander started being treated with the respect we deserve.

  • Taril.8619Taril.8619 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
    I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

    Having NPC companions such as the Steel Warband would feel far better than having a team of superheroes working with us too. The Marvel mentality approach to narrative of these last years is an absolute cancer to storytelling. We need to go back to the likes of the Lord of the Rings as a reference.

    Implying that the likes of Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli weren't written as Superheroes...

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    I don't mind being the hero. What I do mind is not being treated like a hero. After all, The Commander has "only" led the way in saving the world about half a dozen times by this point, so I'd appreciate it greatly if characters like Anise and Rytlock would start keeping their backhanded "compliments" and negative "jokes" to themselves. As Jormag suggested, it's time The Commander started being treated with the respect we deserve.

    One thing to keep in mind, is that we're good friends with them at this point. And much like how we make some humerous comments about them, they do the same to us.

    You can actually see this develop throughout the story. When we're first interacting with the likes of Anise, Rytlock, Canach etc, everyone is very formal and respectful.

    Throughout the story, the tone becomes more casual as we spend time interacting with them and becoming friends. To the point where it would feel out of place if we weren't getting ribbed by Canach and Rytlock at every opportunity (In fact, this is brought up with the Bromance between Rytlock and Canach at the start of PoF, when Canach rejoins the party for the first time after becoming a "Free Sylvari" he notes how out of character it was when Rytlock offered to join him in a scouting mission, until he made a backhanded comment about Canach having lost his ability to fight while he's been away)

    It's one of the more natural aspects to GW2's story, the dichotomy between friendly banter with our allies we've been with for years, while the respect and formality with those outside of our party whom just know us as The Commander/Dragon Slayer/Godstomper.

    Cat: Meow.

  • Obliviscaris.6937Obliviscaris.6937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 16, 2020

    One highlight of this living story due to lack of VA, is that my character's voice wasn't chosen for me. I could read responses in my own tone. It did the world for immersion, for me personally, and I didn't feel like a shoehorned hero (particular when we committed that...exposive war crime...). As much as I adore the quality of the PC's voice (one that stands out is the conversation between us at Braham when they're looking for the scroll in Bitterfrost, the idiosyncrasies within the speech were so well performed), I could do without from here on out personally and just have NPC voices moving forward.

  • Mahou.3924Mahou.3924 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    I don't mind being the hero. What I do mind is not being treated like a hero. After all, The Commander has "only" led the way in saving the world about half a dozen times by this point, so I'd appreciate it greatly if characters like Anise and Rytlock would start keeping their backhanded "compliments" and negative "jokes" to themselves. As Jormag suggested, it's time The Commander started being treated with the respect we deserve.

    Just because you are a "hero" doesn't mean that your comrades or closer-knit friend circle needs to worship you 24/7 and kiss your feet. Heck, even FF14, where many, many NPCs praise you to death, makes the companions of the WoL retain their own quirks (while still fanboying/fangirling for you) and let the make fun of the power of nodding.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i would love to invade DR and plunder it while players defend!

  • Raven.1793Raven.1793 Member ✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    I wish we were a nobody, just one more faceless soldier. The whole Commander thing is one of the game's worst story decisions, if not the very worst.

    Totally agree with this. It is not necessary to make the protagonist into a VIP and the center of attention. Doing so kills any incentive for player creativity and reduces story engagement to a single perspective. While this may work for a superhero movie or isekai light novel, it’s bad for an MMO that wants to encourage the creation of content and experiences beyond what is supplied the developers.

    One frequent objection is that voice acting requires the a consistent title for the protagonist. Though I don’t miss the voice acting, I also don’t see a problem with using a less ostentatious title like “volunteer”, “soldier”, or “recruit” depending on the situation.

    I would prefer storytelling at scale to focus more on the world, its locations, and inhabitants while leaving my own character as a faceless blank slate.

    That being said, I like the direction of Icebrood Saga with its increased focus on NPCs and world events while the protagonist’s own role is diminished.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    This is why I always hold off on inventing a backstory for my character (or adding to the one they have) until I know what kind of story the game offers and what's going to be imposed on me. I made that mistake with Baldur's Gate - creating a new backstory for my character which proved totally incompatible with the game's storyline. Especially for 'evil' characters since even in games which allow that you usually have to do the main storyline to get anywhere and your options are likely to be limited.

    Sometimes I've had a really cool idea for a character which just wouldn't work at all in the game which inspired it because the game story or mechanics don't allow for it (for example it requires them to have a specific personality in a game with very limited/no dialogue options) and then I end up holding onto it until I find a game where it will work. or in some cases saving it for pen-and-paper or free-form roleplaying because that's the only format where I can make it work.

    I don't like to completely ignore the games story (unless it's a very open-ended game where that makes sense, and then only for alts), I much prefer to work around it, adding to what's already there rather than trying to overwrite it or getting frustrated when I can't.

    Or just do my method lol. My character backstories are completely unrelated to the Commander/PC. Hell only one is even involved in the far north troubles (techincally could do two if I used my singular Legion Charr). The commander is in a sense, Anet's character, and my characters stories are my own to explore and create. Hell, my gameplay main (necromancer) wasn't even involved story-wise with the Jungle Events, Orr, or even the conflicts in Elona mostly.

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I don't know but I find myself wanting to be a supervillain in most RPGs and even though I enjoy the storyline of the game I sometimes feel that this isn't right for all my characters as I have backgrounds and canons for all of them and sometimes I just want to wreak havoc and watch the world burn.
    I hope that in the future we'll get choices that actually matter for the story.

    I wish we were a nobody, just one more faceless soldier. The whole Commander thing is one of the game's worst story decisions, if not the very worst.

    Having NPC companions such as the Steel Warband would feel far better than having a team of superheroes working with us too. The Marvel mentality approach to narrative of these last years is an absolute cancer to storytelling. We need to go back to the likes of the Lord of the Rings as a reference.

    I'm sorry but what super heroes are you talking about?

    GW2 has done an excellent job of making it clear that the "hero team" are not godly figures of unstoppable force. Hell the Commander has been beaten every time they went solo against a big bad.

  • Emiko.3217Emiko.3217 Member ✭✭

    No, but for there are games out there where you can pvp, kill and take other people's cargo, trade packs and wreck their cars, haulers, etc before they can make it to the trade post. I don't want that content here. :( That's the reason I returned to GW2. You won't lose out on money that way.

  • Raven.1793Raven.1793 Member ✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I don't like to completely ignore the games story (unless it's a very open-ended game where that makes sense, and then only for alts), I much prefer to work around it, adding to what's already there rather than trying to overwrite it or getting frustrated when I can't.

    The workaround I use is that I am just a friendly necromancer who people keep mistaking for some legendary Commander figure. I won't go into the details but the short version is that Joko did it, Aurene wrote it, and everything in the story was a fake, Hollywood retelling of events in the meta.

    I don't like simply ignoring the story because I did play them (once) and would like the story experience to be a part of my character one way or another. It feels a bit cheap to pass the whole thing off as fake news but if it reads like somebody cast me in a bad movie, I might as well treat it that way.

    If you think about it, now that Aurene has inherited the powers of Mordemoth and Kralkatorrik, it's not inconceivable for her to possess the ability to rewrite our memories and simply have us believe whatever she wants us to believe.
  • Honestly, I'm just so tired of the "good" side. I want to join the Skritt and lead them to become the new science faction. The story conflict can be the Asura's attempt at ethnic cleansing once they feel threatened by the Skritt's growing intelligence. Which I need to specify is something they would have done pre-HoT. Most of the races have been changed significantly since then, and with no real in-universe reason except that Bubbles is the elder dragon of friendship and his corruption threatens us all.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:
    Honestly, I'm just so tired of the "good" side. I want to join the Skritt and lead them to become the new science faction. The story conflict can be the Asura's attempt at ethnic cleansing once they feel threatened by the Skritt's growing intelligence. Which I need to specify is something they would have done pre-HoT. Most of the races have been changed significantly since then, and with no real in-universe reason except that Bubbles is the elder dragon of friendship and his corruption threatens us all.

    Why would the Skritt be the bad side? That sounds more like Skaven :tongue:

  • Finalfreefall.8247Finalfreefall.8247 Member ✭✭
    edited August 3, 2020

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Why would the Skritt be the bad side? That sounds more like Skaven :tongue:

    Quotes around good side. When I was going through a library (I think it was the Priory) the idea started growing that the dragons are the only thing keeping Asura from conquering or enslaving other races. Granted, that sort of thing has been reduced significantly with the LW's lack of consistency.

    I'd have Ideally enjoyed the Sylvari jumping allegiance to another dragon after Mordy died, or at least have a slightly edited view of the dream. Something to flesh out the threat.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Finalfreefall.8247 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Why would the Skritt be the bad side? That sounds more like Skaven :tongue:

    Quotes around good side. When I was going through a library (I think it was the Priory) the idea started growing that the dragons are the only thing keeping Asura from conquering or enslaving other races. Granted, that sort of thing has been reduced significantly with the LW's lack of consistency.

    I'd have Ideally enjoyed the Sylvari jumping allegiance to another dragon after Mordy died, or at least have a slightly edited view of the dream. Something to flesh out the threat.

    The mean Asura tend to join the inquest, and the inquest have repeatedly gotten beaten out in the world. Most Asura just don't care is what I've taken from it. In GW1 they didn't really have dreams of conquest or ruling the world.

    The whole conflict with the Skritt was because the Skritt stole Asura tech, and in great enough numbers could easily replicate it. That scared the Asura.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    @Emiko.3217 said:
    No, but for there are games out there where you can pvp, kill and take other people's cargo, trade packs and wreck their cars, haulers, etc before they can make it to the trade post. I don't want that content here. :( That's the reason I returned to GW2. You won't lose out on money that way.

    That is one of the great things about GW2. I have always seen games as good v evil. Us v them. I do not PvP, I would always play the hero. Even in CoX I played in the City of Heroes, not the City of Villains.