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So ANet will fix downstate next?

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  • whoknocks.4935whoknocks.4935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Downstate is a core mechanic of the game, like a unique thing.
    I agree with that, but it is also a lazy mechanic that rewards big numbers and carry bad players more than skilled ones.

    Some fixing I personally would do to downstate.
    -In sPvP downstate is fine as it is, being 5vs5 and using bleeding tactic at your advantage is okay.
    -In WvW:
    Remove Rally completely, I don't care if you damaged the enemy and he died, you are downed too you don't deserve to be autoress.
    Ress speed should be capped at 1 person. Doesn't matter how many people are trying to ress you, only the 1 person count for the ress.
    If you use autoattack or skill2 during downed state your health is consumed at 100% more speed (This will need a rework for certain professions, necro ranger autoress etc.)
    If you have a nearby Downed ally at 600-900 range you receive a -50% debuff to ALL stats, so you decide if try ress him or let him die like it should be.
    Poison has effect doubled on Downed players.

    I didn't removed downed state, but I killed it probably? But I think will be way more healthy gameplay in WvW, let me know.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2020

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    Like other have surely already said: Downstate is fine (it improves complexity of gameplay, provides fun roles/tactics and can help a smaller group just as well as a larger one). Rally can go, it tends to favour the wrong people in the wrong situation.

    Actually every time this thread comes up in either a poll or a discussion the consensus among most players is that it certainly isn't fine. In most polls only around 30% ish think its fine, with the remaining 70% being in agreement to the contrary, usually a mix of "remove it" and "nerf it".

    It most certainly doesn't favor the smaller group equally to the large one. The most obvious example of this is the simplest: Two players against one. If the one goes down its gg. If one of the two goes down they are more than likely going to get back up due to how warped the scales are tilted towards the revivers over the stompers/finishers. People have been articulating this point for years with numerous examples on how the larger force, whether thats 1v2 or 5v3 etc is given an even greater edge via downstate on top of the already considerable advantage that having more players in any given fight provides. Its past the point of being a debate its simply a fact.

    Threads like this will continue until something is done about downstate. As they should.

    You got that completely kitten backwards.

    Most polls have shown that around 70% are in favor of keeping it or nerfing it

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/95569/poll-your-thoughts-on-downstate/p1

    No I had it right, the majority of people are not happy with the current balance of downstate as it stands most recently. Only 30% were in favour of keeping it unchanged. The remaining 70% were a mix of people who all wanted it to be nerfed in some way. From people wanting it deleted, to people who just wanted rallying removed, more no downstate weeks, no double downed rezing etc etc.

    But only 30% were happy with it as it is now. Which is what my reply stated.

    I'm afraid you're the one who has it kitten backwards. Unless you can show me a more recent collection of data that contradicts this one? In which case I'd be delighted to change my views.

    Yeah and thats one of the stupid polls. A tiny amount voted because it was that stupid with far too many options. Even then 70% want to keep and/or see it nerfed (easy math there).

    This poll: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first/p1

    Is somewhat better layed out, but still not many voters.

    I would still go with the most recent poll.Your poll is over a year old now, and keep in mind people voted in it with the currect OHK meta being a reality. As you also said it lacks a greater variety. Since the rightful damage Nerf downstate is even more oppressive, and I still hold the opinion that the majority of players believe it should be nerfed/re balanced in some way.

    Doesnt change the fact the example you use is a bad poll.

    If you made a new poll which just consisted of the two basic options - remove downstate completely or keep downstate and/or nerf (hp, skills, rally, etc) - it will still most probably be a rough 30/70 distribution. Saying "only 30% think downstate it's fine" is twisting it as it implies a minority is in favor of having downstate period, when it's the exact opposite. As you say, you believe a majority of players believe it should nerfed rebalance. Accurate and still keeping downstate. Yet on the type of poll you posted, that option is like... 6 different choices. Of course the percentages will be low while other much simpler options - such as delete it - will look bigger. That is a bad poll.

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  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    what is there to fix?

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:

    Like other have surely already said: Downstate is fine (it improves complexity of gameplay, provides fun roles/tactics and can help a smaller group just as well as a larger one). Rally can go, it tends to favour the wrong people in the wrong situation.

    Actually every time this thread comes up in either a poll or a discussion the consensus among most players is that it certainly isn't fine. In most polls only around 30% ish think its fine, with the remaining 70% being in agreement to the contrary, usually a mix of "remove it" and "nerf it".

    It most certainly doesn't favor the smaller group equally to the large one. The most obvious example of this is the simplest: Two players against one. If the one goes down its gg. If one of the two goes down they are more than likely going to get back up due to how warped the scales are tilted towards the revivers over the stompers/finishers. People have been articulating this point for years with numerous examples on how the larger force, whether thats 1v2 or 5v3 etc is given an even greater edge via downstate on top of the already considerable advantage that having more players in any given fight provides. Its past the point of being a debate its simply a fact.

    Threads like this will continue until something is done about downstate. As they should.

    You got that completely kitten backwards.

    Most polls have shown that around 70% are in favor of keeping it or nerfing it

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/95569/poll-your-thoughts-on-downstate/p1

    No I had it right, the majority of people are not happy with the current balance of downstate as it stands most recently. Only 30% were in favour of keeping it unchanged. The remaining 70% were a mix of people who all wanted it to be nerfed in some way. From people wanting it deleted, to people who just wanted rallying removed, more no downstate weeks, no double downed rezing etc etc.

    But only 30% were happy with it as it is now. Which is what my reply stated.

    I'm afraid you're the one who has it kitten backwards. Unless you can show me a more recent collection of data that contradicts this one? In which case I'd be delighted to change my views.

    Yeah and thats one of the stupid polls. A tiny amount voted because it was that stupid with far too many options. Even then 70% want to keep and/or see it nerfed (easy math there).

    This poll: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/75626/no-downstate-poll-please-read-post-first/p1

    Is somewhat better layed out, but still not many voters.

    I would still go with the most recent poll.Your poll is over a year old now, and keep in mind people voted in it with the currect OHK meta being a reality. As you also said it lacks a greater variety. Since the rightful damage Nerf downstate is even more oppressive, and I still hold the opinion that the majority of players believe it should be nerfed/re balanced in some way.

    Doesnt change the fact the example you use is a bad poll.

    If you made a new poll which just consisted of the two basic options - remove downstate completely or keep downstate and/or nerf (hp, skills, rally, etc) - it will still most probably be a rough 30/70 distribution. when it's the exact opposite. As you say, you believe a majority of players believe it should nerfed rebalance. Accurate and still keeping downstate. Yet on the type of poll you posted, that option is like... 6 different choices. Of course the percentages will be low while other much simpler options - such as delete it - will look bigger. That is a bad poll.

    You're building a straw man either intentionally or through a misunderstanding. I don't care that the much simpler options "look" bigger. I don't believe that the majority of people want downstate removed. I am of the opinion that 70% of players want downstate to stay in the game. 30% want it deleted, 30% want it completely unchanged and the remaining 40% (the majority) are spread in between.

    My entire point, is that according to that pole, 70% of players are not happy with how downstate is balanced presently. The poll is fine, its not misleading if you take 2 seconds to read it. Nobody who examines it is going to conclude more people want downstate deleted. Just as they would also conclude that the majority in fact want downstate changed. The poll expressed that nugget of truth.

    If you want to refute me please debate me on this point: 70% of players who voted in that pole are not happy with how downstate is balanced.This is the basis of my entire argument. I don't care which options "look" bigger because they are more simple. I don't care that 70% of players want downstate to not to be deleted. Irrelevant. The most important fact in my opinion is that 70% of players think downstate needs to be re balanced in some way.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2020

    Just as a matter of interest: Doug, what sort of WvW player would you describe yourself as?

    I think perspective is important in this and it is also important in terms of getting subjectivity into at least attempts of objectivity. I don't care too much about polls because there is a difference between what is popular and what is good. What most people want in this game is actually often quite irrelevant as most people are not experienced or insightful enough to make an informed decision, they're rarely experienced or insightful enough to even contribute to a constructive discussion.

    See, my experience with this mode has taught me that alot of things people want out of balance works in the inverse and these things suggests to me that alot of the players who want downstate to disappear are either people who often play long-range damage builds in larger groups and want more kills while overlooking that the player who has tagged up and enable their entire playstyle may not want it. If that 1 player does not tag those other 49 players often end up doing nothing. They are a majority, but the minority's oppinion on the matter is important.

    It could be argued that the 1 player's oppinion on the matter is even more important than those 49 all together or what those 49 players want on a surface level may not be what they want once they do more than scratch surface. They may like to get more bags but if their tag quits over it they may regret it.

    Something similar can be seen going on at smaller scales. The point here that relates to the inverse state of things is that if players on classes who excels in for example the hit-and-run gameplay get to dictate what support can do to a degree that causes balance issues then more experienced players on those other classes will begin to play hit-and-run as well and then things tend to no longer be as fun for the majority of rather casual hit-and-run players who now finds themselves in an environment that is all about ganks. Then their perspective on the downstate matter tend to shift as there are many other and better players outmirroring them.

    So if you are a commander rather than someone who follows a commander or if you play smaller scale but not on a class that is built around hit-and-run, then fine your oppinion on the matter can be discussed objectively. However, if you are not, perhaps take what I just said into account for future discussion.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    subversiontwo.7501 did put the issue in much better words than i am able to do,
    but i would like to explain why, from my personal view, the downstate itself have to stay (and it somehow reflects what he is saying, at least partly):

    just two days ago, i was with my guild group, whe were 9 people, and i was on my support (aurashare) tempest. Even though i was surrounded by 8 guildies, including reaper, mesmer, revenant (...and more), it wasnt possible to defend me against a single thief that wanted to down me. Some peoble may now want to tell me to learn how to play, but anyway... (initiative system + very high mobility versus attunement-swap cd, skills cd and way to long cast times, and in the best case some swiftness IF the tempest run arcane and way to low damadge to apply any actual pressure .. pleeease).
    As you may have guessed: he downed me, getting out of 8 people trying to defend me, with "ease" and unharmed.

    Without the downstate, this had been just a "free kill" situation. But i really wonder if players like that thief, for example, could live with the consequences that do have to follow, if the downstate will be removed entirely (like removing the initiative system).

    I try to make it short about downstate skills over all classes (i want them to be more eqaulized), and why i think the rally-mechanic has to go:

    its because Scourge.

    There is no doubt, that necro has the by far strongest downstate skills, while with scourge, they also do have the highest possibility to "rally" in large scale.

    Even if now, after the latest balance patch, the scourge may see a decline in numbers for large scale: the single most meta defining class since at least pof does have the strongest downstate skills AND the highest chance to rally.

    I will happily give up my eles vapor form, for a little bit more ...well, i´m lacking better words - fairness.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    In short: keep the downstate, equalize the downstate skills over all classes, remove the rally-mechanic

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeran.6850 said:
    In short: keep the downstate, equalize the downstate skills over all classes, remove the rally-mechanic

    This^ the devs need to wake up and start removing all the carry mechanics this games plagued with. Won't happen.

  • noot.8641noot.8641 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    They will never do such changes to downstate, the reason is very simple in anets mind.
    They will lose casual players/noobs, and for them its all about making that player group feel strong.
    I mean, we all know downstate was OP for many many years..
    They don’t care that much for the veteran wvw players, cuz we don’t bring in da money.
    They will balance this game for casual players, till the end of it’s life cycle.
    Better look for new games, because anet will always dissappoint you with every “balance” patch they do.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    Same people who QQ about downstate are same people who didn't even participate in fights, just camped their mounts to finish downstates.

    Just deal with the downstates. Get a few weavers and chronos to win every rallywar. It just happens you might play a class with bad downed control and that is why you're triggered about them.

    I do agree that 1st downstate should maybe be 65% max health instead of 75%. Not because Downstate itself is inherently broken but for sake of different feel within game. This would also indirectly buff Mercy runes and Illusion of life, which would be kinda welcome, as you would have to sacrifice one slot in your comp or runeset to get downstates up. Also Concentration stat could be tuned down a bit in WvW, minstrel is little bit busted when combined with boon duration foods and runes. Basically you have a point that there are too many minstrel players per party within guilds.

    Your issues aren't from downstate, it is from teamcomp and metagame. There was never a state of balancethat was more punishing towards having a bad party member. If you don't have a decent firebrand, you're dead. First we moved from 2 guardian parties to 1 FB party, then we moved from ranged meta to melee meta. Both of which punishes having bad party more. Also Launch the downstates, you can run offhand dagger on tempests, use rev elite, run stomp on strength warriors. There are many ways to have downed control. Another way to kill guild groups is playing reaper, removing boons and then pulling the enemies off their tag with GS5 before killing them.

    In the end it is a teamgame, if all you do is cloud and gank guilds solo, yea downstate is triggering. Join a team, make a nice comp, make a plan for enemy downstates, make a plan for allied downstates. And at this point, you will be playing WvW. Downstates are hard to deal with and is part of the skillcap within the game.

    Downstate isn't OP, it isn't uninteractive, it doesn't carry bad players. It just shuts down "Hit and run" playstyles that are uninteractive.

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  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I miss the old days of rally war, kod revival and the days when kd wasn't a thing.

    When did we start carring about not dying in wvw? I can no longer remember.

    Gone are the days of 3 hour garrison rally fights and bannering the Lord and your allies.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    Yes, please. Remove downstate so when my WvW guild group rolls over an enemy public twice our size, we don't have to worry about the other side getting a chance to resurrect their members. All fights would basically begin and end with: us engaging, producing 10 kills, disengaging until cooldowns are ready again, then proceed to surgically disassemble the enemy bigger blob until there is nothing left.

    Unless the enemy blob is other organized guilds of bigger size.

    I think any player here who is not in an organized guild group should think long and hard about removal of downstate. Maybe think about some of the fights you had on border and why they turned out the way they did, and not just remember that 1 time where you didn't get to finish off that one downed target. I can tell you right now, more casual players who rely on numbers will not enjoy downstate getting removed. Which in turn would make this game mode even less populated.

    There are certainly some interesting ideas how to approach downstate by for example expanding up how to deal with the mechanic, both offensive as well as defensively. If you strait up remove it, well some players will not be member of this game mode for long.

    Final note, there is a huge difference between NA and EU WvW too. Just like most other content in this game, WvW, Spvp, fractals, NA is far less populated compared to the EU counterpart.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, please. Remove downstate so when my WvW guild group rolls over an enemy public twice our size, we don't have to worry about the other side getting a chance to resurrect their members. All fights would basically begin and end with: us engaging, producing 10 kills, disengaging until cooldowns are ready again, then proceed to surgically disassemble the enemy bigger blob until there is nothing left.

    Unless the enemy blob is other organized guilds of bigger size.

    I think any player here who is not in an organized guild group should think long and hard about removal of downstate. Maybe think about some of the fights you had on border and why they turned out the way they did, and not just remember that 1 time where you didn't get to finish off that one downed target. I can tell you right now, more casual players who rely on numbers will not enjoy downstate getting removed. Which in turn would make this game mode even less populated.

    There are certainly some interesting ideas how to approach downstate by for example expanding up how to deal with the mechanic, both offensive as well as defensively. If you strait up remove it, well some players will not be member of this game mode for long.

    That is an extremely important point. Also ppl will probably just do the pew pew range from a far game play and focus commander to kill the pugs. And commanders will be full nomads/melandru runes energy cleansing

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    I main an engineer; Remove downstate or keep it, doesn't matter since engi down skills are so bad. Totally ambivalent..

  • I can tell you right now, more casual players who don't play in guilds will not enjoy guilds and outnumbering opponents taking away tools that gave them a fighting a chance. Which in turn would make this game mode even less populated.
    And we all know there is so many guilds left that are always on the move and fighting that this gamemode will defenitly have to be balanced around them to keep it alive.

  • Downstate favors the larger group even vs skilled smaller group. The larger zerg can simply 5 man res, while the smaller team will struggle to apply enough pressure to actually finish the enemy downed without getting themselves blown up. It's an easy fix though just nerf downstate hp 50% across the board and make it take 20% longer to revive. Anet stays happy because stomp mechanics stay in WvW and players special finishers wont be useless in an entire mode. Also it's another kitten in the armor of larger zergs, which would be a healthy thing for WvW. More things that shift the outcome of fights towards skill rather than "which group is larger" are needed.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    The game is already death-centric, people spend more time running back from waypoints than fighting. Various changes like the improved rezz skills, and the higher TTK have made this better, but its still pretty bad. For some reason people think if you run across an entire map and then have a five second fight the game mode is in good shape, and that no more adjustments are needed.

    Then there's some who see this fight that lasted five seconds and think "this lasted too long, I didn't get to instantly explode all my enemies" and that's what people in favor of downstate removal want. They want every kill to be quick and permanent, not for the health of the game but for personal enjoyment and reduced frustration on their end. Yes, war is frustrating, but it has to go back ways.

    You can't expect to be alive and always have all your enemies dead, It doesn't work that way, you have to die too.

    Removal of Warclaw stomp was a mistake, but nerfing or removing downstate won't fix anything. This isn't Quake. People need to have tools that lengthen fight and give their class and build time to shine and that can take a while to happen.

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  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    what is there to fix?

    The rally maybe, IMO downstate shoulkd be tweaked to give time for players to get rezed back into actuion by skills, not rubbing nor rally :\, we already have skills that do that.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    what is there to fix?

    The rally maybe, IMO downstate shoulkd be tweaked to give time for players to get rezed back into actuion by skills, not rubbing nor rally :\, we already have skills that do that.

    Dunno, man. You are forced to lock your self on an animation at melee range. That's kinda a death sentence a lot of the time. Sure sometime res is easy but not so in most fights

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020

    I think we should rework how downstate interacts with large and small groups. Make it favor smaller groups more. To this effect, I would make two simple changes.

    One death from opposition only gives one rally.
    Only one player can rez an ally at a time.

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    But...but the downstate is where the necro shines! I can't count how many times someone thinks they have me down, they get too close, and I down them instead and rally myself when they die.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    Downstate is perfectly fine. Looks like an l2p issue to me. -shrug-

  • @Apokriphos.7042 said:
    One death from opposition only gives one rally.

    It already is only 1 rally per death.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020

    Okay.

    Fix one shot perma stealth thieves then. Otherwise this is pointless and is going to cause -everyone- to bail en masse because they'll be one shotted have zero chance of knowing what happened and where it came from. Or they'll be thieves. Until only perma stealth thieves remain. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Invisible wars.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Okay.

    Fix one shot perma stealth thieves then. Otherwise this is pointless and is going to cause -everyone- to bail en masse because they'll be one shotted have zero chance of knowing what happened and where it came from. Or they'll be thieves. Until only perma stealth thieves remain. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Invisible wars.

    Fixing perma stealth and adjusting downstate don't have to be mutually exclusive.

    One shotted is a whole different conversation so I will go with your intent here, wouldn't play a factor either since the player being one-shotted would be alone. Getting killed in group, that is part of the point. You aren't out, your group will just get you back up and there was no lose except a few seconds. This same conversion scales up to small group versus warband or zerg. It's a numbers game as it stands right now. Bring more is the answer, that's not a good way either since it translates to the smaller side, just don't show up, beat them with boredom. Wait and once they have nothing to do they will go away and numbers are more balanced. So yes if it means that perma-stealth one-shot player gets to keep what they kill, at least they will be out there fighting and so will that havoc and that warband while the other side map zergs and just ktrains it around the maps. I do think downstate can be adjusted so it still has advantage to numbers, but less so.

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  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2020

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    Okay.

    Fix one shot perma stealth thieves then. Otherwise this is pointless and is going to cause -everyone- to bail en masse because they'll be one shotted have zero chance of knowing what happened and where it came from. Or they'll be thieves. Until only perma stealth thieves remain. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Invisible wars.

    Fixing perma stealth and adjusting downstate don't have to be mutually exclusive.

    One shotted is a whole different conversation so I will go with your intent here, wouldn't play a factor either since the player being one-shotted would be alone. Getting killed in group, that is part of the point. You aren't out, your group will just get you back up and there was no lose except a few seconds. This same conversion scales up to small group versus warband or zerg. It's a numbers game as it stands right now. Bring more is the answer, that's not a good way either since it translates to the smaller side, just don't show up, beat them with boredom. Wait and once they have nothing to do they will go away and numbers are more balanced. So yes if it means that perma-stealth one-shot player gets to keep what they kill, at least they will be out there fighting and so will that havoc and that warband while the other side map zergs and just ktrains it around the maps. I do think downstate can be adjusted so it still has advantage to numbers, but less so.

    I concur. In my opinion, there is no issue to tweaking downstate, provided other parts of the game mode are taken into account while doing so. I was using thieves in that particular case, because the current meta perma stealth thief can actually re-stealth after killing someone, and actually take down a group alone. Which probably isn't the intent.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2020

    As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

    Downstate does need to be looked it and adjusted, in its current state with how the game has "evolved" over the years it is not healthy for PvP/WvW. I go into much more depth as to what would be my personal suggestions to adjust downstate and rallying, but I by no means think they should be removed. Yet another thing I stated in my previous post is that I would prefer that they would remove downstate and rally and entirely rework the revive mechanics in the game, I also completely recognize that such an approach is completely unrealistic as an expectation or a suggestion. It isn't gonna happen.

    However what could still happen is giving ANet the opportunity to adjust downstate and rallying so they become healthier for PvP/WvW. Like I said above, there is another post of mine in another thread where I go into more detail about it so I won't repeat it verbatim here. Once either side of the argument can acknowledge that both removal isn't the right approach and leaving it as it is also is not the right approach then an actual productive discussion can take place.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Downed same player like 4 times in one fight. So annoying mechanic. :s

    Low quality trolling since launch
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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

    >

    I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

    For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

    >

    I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

    For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

    Initially I thought it was this thread I put it in, turns out it was another thread. There have been so many of these kinds of threads they just blend together at this point.

    So here, I'll give a direct link to my post from the other thread.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1291987#Comment_1291987

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    As I stated in a previous post in another thread, removal of Downstate and Rally is not the solution. This mentality people seem to have where its one way or another, black and white, its either there or get rid of it. Those are not the only two options.

    >

    I think people to tend to go there since its the extremes. But I think you are right, and if disliked by others, when broken out it seems that more people are somewhere in the middle view of it could use adjustment. Now it's also a very valid point that depending on your chosen play style players will be looking to get different results out of a given change and there will be some natural bias to those changes depending on your role or given play style.

    For polls extremes might be easier to tally results but the devil might be in the details. Side note, I missed your other suggestion post and will need to take another look.

    Initially I thought it was this thread I put it in, turns out it was another thread. There have been so many of these kinds of threads they just blend together at this point.

    So here, I'll give a direct link to my post from the other thread.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1291987#Comment_1291987

    Thanks! Will give it a read.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • People are way overcomplicating this. I'll say it again, just nerf downstate hp by 50% across all classes and make reviving 20% slower. Done, everyone's happy let's move on.

    Taking it out completely would be bad for a number of reasons: (1) Anet won't be happy they can't sell more special finshers, (2)Players that bought special finishers will feel kitten, (3) It will feel more frustrating getting one shotted and being insta dead rather than having a chance at coming back, (4) It makes certain skills obsolete, (5) It would require a lot of rebalancing and may end up worse off in the long run. Plenty of more reasons but i don't want to detract from the overall point of my post by typing more.

    I will say Apokriphos.7042 made an interesting suggestion of making it so that only one person can revive an ally at a time. Other than that people are making this way more complicated of a fix than it needs to be.

  • This 100% needs to be fixed. Cut the health down by 50%, make it so only one person can rez, or just remove it altogether.

    The down state is a crutch that ONLY helps the team with more numbers. Why should a group of 3 people who are already at a numbers advantage be able to rez each other when I'm fighting them alone? It's impossible to stomp or cleave them down.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stazee.6749 said:
    People are way overcomplicating this. I'll say it again, just nerf downstate hp by 50% across all classes and make reviving 20% slower. Done, everyone's happy let's move on.

    And the day after there will be at least 3 threads with "remove downstate!" from all the happy people.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are a lot of potential options in balancing the numbers game. But we have already seen in the no-downstate weeks that temp rules can be applied so make use of that and let's try a number of them. But again, announce it in advance since the general public won't know about it unless told in advance and then get feedback from outside the forums as well.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC