AOE Needs to Be Weaker than Single Target

Massive area denial.Occurs at multiple locations.Hits multiple targets.Multiple strong effects.

Why are classes that do AOE as their primary damage outperforming single target classes in single target damage?

Also, they are better at sustain and support.

Who is pvp made for?

Also, why all the quickness for these same classes?

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Also, why all the quickness for these same classes?

Maybe becuz quickness doesn’t do as much for aoe classes. It’s really op on lich from what I heard though

In PvE and PvP maybe, but in WvW it hurts the game mode that skills already have target caps, since it always favors outnumbering your opponent to distribute the damage amoung your group. So any change like this couldn't be game-wide.

PvE: Area attacks need toned down damage-wise so adds don't just get wiped out en mass.PvP: Area attacks need toned down (3 targets?) so you can't just wipe an entire enemy party on a point.WvW: Area attacks need to be stronger and do more damage and control effects the more people they hit, with higher target caps.

Like lava font ?

renegod + scourge aoe on node = reeeeeeeeee

That's a nice brain teaser. In 1v1 no one will ever get hit by one (except when it will be pulsating and covering the whole node ... what most problematic AoEs tend to do -_-), while in teamfight people will be forced to walk inside some.

Solution:

• Make them rarer so that landing one actually feels nice when timed properly. Effects should be powerful.
• (or) make them less powerful and more frequent, That's what Anet has been doing for years with the catastrophic effects we know.

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Massive area denial.Occurs at multiple locations.Hits multiple targets.Multiple strong effects.

Why are classes that do AOE as their primary damage outperforming single target classes in single target damage?

Also, they are better at sustain and support.

Who is pvp made for?

Stop trying to introduce logic and/or balance into the game, ANet only knows how to do the opposite.

This is a problem with the game mode, not the specs. Conquest requires most fights to occur in a very small area.

If you're having trouble with feeding into an aoe blender in mid (most gold and below games, which is where all the complaints are coming from), just rotate and play sides.

@mistsim.2748 said:This is a problem with the game mode, not the specs. Conquest requires most fights to occur in a very small area.

If you're having trouble with feeding into an aoe blender in mid (most gold and below games, which is where all the complaints are coming from), just rotate and play sides.The rank doesn't matter really the AoE lingering effects make teamfights spammy mess (could use better words but it gets kittenized), I think the rate of the AoE effects is the bigger problem, if you know you can wait for a downtime where you can go in would be better, but currently most of the AoE is fire and forget. Even the tournament winners say that teamfights are way too spammy and RNG so they don't bother with them.

Doesn't fly. Ranger is almost only single target and gets single target damage nerfed every patch.

Grenades are the biggest offender to this imo."Oh look a holo...oops my entire teams dead instantly".

Also I'm having a lot less fun now that scourge is in every game. Boring class to fight that I just sit out of melee range with and spam shortbow..wow so interactive and exciting.

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Grenades are the biggest offender to this imo."Oh look a holo...oops my entire teams dead instantly".

Also I'm having a lot less fun now that scourge is in every game. Boring class to fight that I just sit out of melee range with and spam shortbow..wow so interactive and exciting.

Scourge isn't that exciting either. I ran this cheesy minion build and it pretty much played itself. Obviously I could have opted for a less braindead build but it felt like it was significantly more efficient than the others I tried.

And yes, I've dealt with a lot of toxic holos since pof. You can tell who the really good ones are (I'm not one of them) because of how they combo their abilities. The vast majority just win because they're pumping out so much damage that they kill things easily and think they're god's gift to the pvp community. It's all build carry. I know because build carry is the only way I've made it to where I have. (Which still isn't far. lul)

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Also, why all the quickness for these same classes?

It's ridiculous on Lich.

Reaper can now stack enough quickness so that it has a full 10s of quickness while in Lich.

Probably not optimal for conquest, as Lich CD is long. But yeeeah in the next 2v2 or 3v3 season, when that Lich timer gets reset every round for free, we'll be seeing a lot of quickness gank liching going on. That's all anyone is going to want to run. It's going to pigeonhole the 2v2/3v3 meta into needing to use classes with very high anti-projectile uptime. And some of those skills won't even work if the Lich brings that shout that grants them unblockable attacks.

You can kill that Indestructible Golem with a single Lich if you have quickness on. That thing has 78,870 health and 2,597 armor.

this thread is yet another pointless plea to fix something that is part of the game and has been for a long time.

I thought that was an obvious thing, like high defense = low damage, low risk = low damage, but here things work strangely. You see tanks doing a lot of dmg, condition bursting and aoe doing equal/more dmg than single target, lol

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this thread is yet another pointless plea to fix something that is part of the game and has been for a long time.

(bad things) being a part of something for a (long time) is not justification for keeping them around

unless you mean that the devs simply have never cared to fix them, or rather they want these bad things in the game

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:this thread is yet another pointless plea to fix something that is part of the game and has been for a long time.

given anets track record, i guess i really wouldn't be totally surprised. what you're asking though is to do a 180 on a major tenant of this games design... doesn't that seem a little late at this point in time? i'm not sure it would be worth it for anet since it seems like the games problems are finally catching up with them.

It's basically casual-pandering at the expense of balance. I watched the same thing happen to Tera, it is now happening in GW2. Devs desperate to save their game try to make it easier by pushing the meta towards AoE spam because AoE is intrinsically easier to use. It's done in hope that an easier game will attract new players, but in reality it just pisses old players off and the game dies.

There is a simple solution, don't try to get the node for any reason, if it's full of aoes, retreat, recover a bit and push it again, or help somewhere else

@Hannelore.8153 said:In PvE and PvP maybe, but in WvW it hurts the game mode that skills already have target caps, since it always favors outnumbering your opponent to distribute the damage amoung your group. So any change like this couldn't be game-wide.

PvE: Area attacks need toned down damage-wise so adds don't just get wiped out en mass.PvP: Area attacks need toned down (3 targets?) so you can't just wipe an entire enemy party on a point.WvW: Area attacks need to be stronger and do more damage and control effects the more people they hit, with higher target caps.

I think you have the wrong idea about WvW and AoE target cap. Any larger group with the exact same skills will still be stronger then the smaller group, so having a higher cap and/or stronger AoE in WvW will probably cause issues. It is mobility and range that could be changed when one group is outnumbered. We already have buffs that increase attributes while outnumbered and it doesn't help much, when there is a larger group online. In most cases they also have more scribes crafting for tactics that get into a massive wall to get through for the smaller group (as they often aren't as organised).

Then we have skill that can hit one target and from that target hit others, so where do we put a limit for skills number of target it can hit without turning those skills into useless skills? AoE are build around form (circle, square or cone), range, direction, duration and number of target it can effect. Single target often have conditions that make them into more then one target or can be adjusted to multi target through traits, sigils or rune. Piercing is a mechanic that often are used for making a single target hitting several targets in a line (typical for bow type of skills).

AOEs should do 23 dmg on crit.

@Avatar.3568 said:There is a simple solution, don't try to get the node for any reason, if it's full of aoes, retreat, recover a bit and push it again, or help somewhere else

But node is life.

Not so sure there's an easy way to teach people it's okay to lose nodes and still win the game, but it's what happens when you oversimplify complex strategies into a rule of thumb - after a while people treat them as hard rules.

@rng.1024 said:

@"Avatar.3568" said:There is a simple solution, don't try to get the node for any reason, if it's full of aoes, retreat, recover a bit and push it again, or help somewhere else

"FiGhT oN pOiNt"

Just dodge. Thanks.