Scourge nerf was needed and is great for the zerg scene — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

Scourge nerf was needed and is great for the zerg scene

Alec B.8905Alec B.8905 Member ✭✭

Having scourge as the only DPS option should never be a thing and bringing it to par with other DPS classes will allow players to choose different classes to deal damage. We can see reapers in the mix, eles possibly, more revs, even berserker variants. Scourge was too powerful and played the DPS role too well where it outshines every other viable option which is toxic to the game mode.
This was a great decision on arena nets side!
i am looking forward to the newly created meta!

<13

Comments

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    apparently there is a large percentage of players that don't realize that this method of balancing can easily apply to their class as well.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭

    Just w8 and see what will be "hotfixed" next :)

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:
    thanks guys.
    Nerf bloody thief now.

    Thief needs a rework more than a nerf.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I imagine if scourge gets nuked hard enough reapers will become more playable in the zerg and replace them.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Scourge need nerfs, but not this last nerf.

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linnar.6032 said:
    I have no clue where these threads are coming from calling scourge the best or even the only dps option. Even before the patch scourges got very easily outdps'd by any revenant or weaver who has any clue how to play, or power core guard or even post nerf bomb scrapper. There were a lot of scourges in wvw but not because they are the top dps class

    ftfy

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People used to have that class... i forgot th ename, ilumentalist?? something arround that during the 1st years for heavy aoe, did Anet removed that class?

  • pninak.1069pninak.1069 Member ✭✭✭

    you got some dps atleast. we mesmer players have to wait til the big zerg splits up before we got a chance to deal dmg. We pretty much are just the utility guys following around like sentries, but unable to attack the enemy zerg, because of the long range. The buff on stuff ambush will hardly change anything. even thief and warrior might have a better time dealing dmg, because of their 1500 range.

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Cut the lies.......

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34293/the-most-faceroll-easy-class-for-a-wvw-noob

    Drop this self-sacrifice for the sake of the community facade...scourge..necro in general is popular because it's faceroll easy to get results with , you can turn it however you want, in the end any new player can jump in wvw on a necro and from scratch..that player will most likely enjoy his first time

    Necro players make it sounds like any Timmy can jump on ele with zero experience and meteor storm his way to victory , stop acting like you necros are in any position to lecture any ele player out there

    That's not entirely true. It's not like the skill floor between let's say a Necro, an Ele and a Rev is that wildly different. They can all be pretty useful classes and can maintain a basic role within a squad by simply timing a couple of buttons reasonably well. Instead, the key here is the role. Necros were not behind Eles and Revs in damage enough to let those other classes have those damage roles, while the Necros had multiple other roles ontop of that: as a ripper, as a debuffer etc. If you bring the whole buffet to the table you become very spammable. That has been the issue more than everything else.

    This is extra interesting when it comes to the Scourge because it was never conceptually designed to be a damage spec. It was designed to be a rip- and support spec. It was just an oversight by Anet to not identify that most of the damage abilities on Necro comes from its core abilities so Scourge ended up being a better damage dealer than core Necro for example.

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    What's next.
    1) Nerfs for support classes: Firebrand, Scrapper, Tempest.
    2) Nerfs for roaming classes: Rev, Thief, Ranger

    I expect impactful nerfs like the Scourge nerf. Make it so.

    firebrand is the only reliable class to give party stab and stun break consistently. the last thing they should do is nerf firebrand stab. alternatively their could buff any other class to share party wide stab consistently. this would indirectly "nerf" firebrand.

    scrapper just need to a nerf to Purity of Purpose. that trait alone pumps too many boons. Maybe making it an ICD of like 2-3 seconds PER TARGET NOT GLOBAL would make it more reason able. even 2 seconds ICD per target would reduce scrapper boon output but nearly 50%... and 3 seconds by nearly 66%. Also mortar kit + alturism rune synergy needs to be looked at.

    tempest was already hard nerfed when they lower water overload target cap from 10 to 5 effectively taking away 1 extra condi clear per second. and a lot of healing.
    At the moment tempest is only viable as an auxiliary support and is by no means a good replacement for scrapper.

    idk about roaming. but for ranger they should really tune down how much immob that class can spam. Tempest immob trait got nerfed from 2sec to 1sec, effectively a 50% nerf. ranger could use a similar treatment. immob is by far the strongest condi right now..

  • Xenic.1387Xenic.1387 Member ✭✭

    I agree with every change except the number of targets for shade. Now you can hit max of 6 targets IF your shades are perfectly placed.... I would have preferred if they reduced the damage of the wells in WvW and kept the shades.

    I don't need to be OP, but I do want to feel like my main class mechanic isn't a waste. And the way the play style is now it's drop 3 wells every 40 seconds, kite kite kite. I could do that without playing scourge.

    [EBG] Zeenik
    Nic At Night
    Northern Shiverpeaks WvW

  • @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Thief need nerf to the endless " hit/run/reset/return" meta that its from years-its not fun to play against and it need be fixed :) meaby next great hotfix? :)

    ^ I couldn't have said it better myself (y)

  • Scourge needed nerfs, but not because of their DPS, it was because when they are stacked, like 6 in a raid, they were incredibly OP...not individually. Every zerg had cadres of Scourges, dropping shade circles and rendering every other class impotent except in open fields...put them in a choke point, a hall, a room, or whatever, only Scourges mattered.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    What's next.
    1) Nerfs for support classes: Firebrand, Scrapper, Tempest.
    2) Nerfs for roaming classes: Rev, Thief, Ranger

    I expect impactful nerfs like the Scourge nerf. Make it so.

    If you nerf everything, what will be left?

    (Warriors, I guess.)

  • Azreell.1568Azreell.1568 Member ✭✭

    Same ole bs from Anet.

    OP one class - nerf another to uselessness rinse , repeat.

    Problem is eventually with the lack of any and all support for this game mode - eventually most will get tired of the nerf/buff hamster wheel which never even remotely comes close to balance.

    Scourge needed some adjustments - sure. But, this hot fix makes them literally worthless now.

    Way to go Anet.

  • Alteros.3019Alteros.3019 Member ✭✭

    @Azreell.1568 said:
    Same ole bs from Anet.

    OP one class - nerf another to uselessness rinse , repeat.

    Problem is eventually with the lack of any and all support for this game mode - eventually most will get tired of the nerf/buff hamster wheel which never even remotely comes close to balance.

    Scourge needed some adjustments - sure. But, this hot fix makes them literally worthless now.

    Way to go Anet.

    Precisely why I stopped playing about a year ago. I'm just browsing the forums out of curiosity to see if anything has improved. It appears that things are as morbid as ever and you're right. There is absolutely no predictability in how a class will play at any given point in time, so it makes the expenditure of effort to gear out your character a miserable experience. I was no longer invested after the umpteenth nerf or rework of any number of classes I was fond of.

    If Anet is going to change how classes operate on a whim with no forewarning, then here's a thought for the development team that could generate revenue and make it not so impactful for players. Put on the gem store full sets of legendary gear, legendary runes, and weapons. If they want to keep changing up classes so that you spend more time gearing them then actually getting to play them, then they should at least make it such that it isn't such a headache to switch everything around.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Azreell.1568 said:
    Same ole bs from Anet.

    OP one class - nerf another to uselessness rinse , repeat.

    Really? You are playing a game mode where class balance barely changes in any meaningful sense, which is one of the reasons it is dead.

    A game mode where Guardian has been an absolute irreplaceable requirement for large scale the entire game, where necro has been meta the entire game, where ranger has never had a real spot in a zerg the entire game, where it took 6(?) years before engy had a spot in a zerg, hammer rev basically meta ever since they added it, etc.

    When it comes to class balance, meaningful changes in the meta, WvW is one of the most stagnant, dullest PvP games I have ever played, if they actually nerfed classes to uselessness, things would actually change more than once in an ice age.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    apparently there is a large percentage of players that don't realize that this method of balancing can easily apply to their class as well.

    What, no, I live in the moment. And the patch actually buffed most of the builds I play. They certainly aren't gonna nerf them next year!!

    Though tbh I secretly want to delete all PoF specs...

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel like we're in that paradoxical space where a nerf was 100% necessary but also the nerf we got is… clunky and weird.

    In particular, the way the Greater Shade nerf was done means you're always better off taking the condi-bomb or boon-strip-ping-pong traits.

  • Crazy.6029Crazy.6029 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm sure a lot of players will disagree with me, but, I think the scourge nerf was good for the game overall, this way the less boon strip the more players can survive longer in fights and tell themselves that they are good a WvW. This will lead to less tantrums and hopefully players will be happier while zerging. Just my opinion though. I think anet was probably thinking something similar.

    Let's nerf everything, so that we don't need any skill to play.
    The Truth sometimes hurts but it is good for you.

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    Decided to make my own thread to respond to this. In summary, removing diversity kills game complexity and challenge, driving players and revenue from the game.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2020

    @Linnar.6032 said:
    I have no clue where these threads are coming from calling scourge the best or even the only dps option. Even before the patch scourges got very easily outdps'd by any revenant or weaver who has any clue how to play, or power core guard or even post nerf bomb scrapper. There were a lot of scourges in wvw but not because they are the top dps class

    Yes. Scourges get outDPSd, but at the same time they still hog upper spots in the DPS spectrum. Typically after the revs, or scrappers. Usually core guards or burn guards aren't even taken into zergs. I've also seen some soulbeasts take top spots, but they are likely rarely taken into squads.
    However: The scourges are high up there. While also being high up there in strips. They do soft CC. Their strips are actually often corrupts. They provided persistent area denial through lasting / pulsing zones. And for that, the damage was clearly too high.
    While, when I am on a warrior, and I wanna do CC, I have to pick: do damage or CC. And it shows.

    Hopefully the current change will open zergs up to give more classes easy access. I guess some additional changes are needed until more builds are actually viable and we need to see that the work is kept up. Keep the meta changing, so we got something to do!

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    What's next.
    1) Nerfs for support classes: Firebrand, Scrapper, Tempest.
    2) Nerfs for roaming classes: Rev, Thief, Ranger

    I expect impactful nerfs like the Scourge nerf. Make it so.

    If you nerf everything, what will be left?

    (Warriors, I guess.)

    A better game at least. This stupid power creep is still all over the game.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Apokriphos.7042 said:
    Decided to make my own thread to respond to this. In summary, removing diversity kills game complexity and challenge, driving players and revenue from the game.

    Well yes, you're right. That's what the necro dominance has always done, removed diversity. Pushed every other ranged builds away in favor of a homogenized backline of 40-60% necros in a zerg.

    If necros where just deleted now, straight up... we'd see more variation filled by other classes. I could easily imagine the meta shifting to have no traditional backline and instead pushing heavy melee using reaper, going back to having the old focus parties as their new "backline".

    But of course, that's probably not what we're going to see. When I ran this evening, there was literally no difference in enemy zerg compositions. Which I suppose is good in one way - at least they didnt seem to be doubling up on scourges to make up for the lost AoE, lol. Because that would be... removing diversity.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 10, 2020

    2 afected alies and targets seams a weird number plus 2 at melee range, ok total 4 targets.

    Wouldnt shades work better if they worked like bond skill system from gw1??

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    2 afected alies and targets seams a weird number plus 2 at melee range, ok total 4 targets.

    Wouldnt shades work better if they worked like bond skill system from gw1??

    Care to elaborate? Not everyone of us has played GW1. :)

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    :3 removed the scourge for team comp. Theyre no longer necessary to have.

    Will opt for a reaper/malyx herald in their place now. Hehe.

    You can still use scourge but you will be out played by other classes. :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • nala.9072nala.9072 Member ✭✭
    edited July 11, 2020

    A few days after the patch and we can already see that the balancing was successful and we now have more class diversity in squads. Besides Scourges we now see an equal amount of Reapers!

    I think Necro might now have the most equally balanced specializations. Reaper, Scourge, even core Necro, all alive and well in the wvw scene! So many different ways to play the class and to adapt to different fighting styles that it is making it even more interesting than before.

    Let us see how this will evolve with new tactics etc! We may end up with only one at the end but for now it s fun!

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    Its becose players start to realize that 2 target aoe on any aoe skill its uselles and from now scourge gm trait sand savant its first real selfnerf trait in gw2, so they try to find other options to be usef in fight. So lets w8 2 weeks and see where all they go - some will stay on scourge an be easy outplayed by others muth beter aoe dps or suport that have 5 target aoe , some will change class nad some will leave game. Just w8 an see what will be next :) Players usualy dont like the way how anet make balance paths and last next day hotfix loks like they dont know what they do in balance team- no one like to be treated like this especially in pvp games so i will be not surprised if A part of The main scourge players will leave game soon, nad if in wvsw really where so many scourges it may have some impact on The wvsw nad whole game :) just w8 :)

  • jsp.6912jsp.6912 Member ✭✭✭

    zerg scene lol

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Minstrel fbs and tons of reapers and spell breakers and scrappers :3 kill em all

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Yeah. Scourge did a little too much a little too well but the hotfix to sand shade was a proper SBooning.

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    I totally understand the face-roll and AoE criticism on Scourge. Admittedly I started playing it in a zerg because I wanted to have a more laid-back experience where I don't have to be super focused all the time. Scourge allowed me to do that and still be quite effective. (At least I think/hope I was, LOL.)

    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless. Could have reduced it to 4 targets and not on own position, or 3 on target and 3 on own position, or nerf the F2-F5 skills instead of changing target cap, but why make it completely useless like this?

    Doesn't make sense to me.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Ofc it is, It still brings the most corrupts in the game, ontop of all the barrier and still has pretty strong damage

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Not much has changed. No one took Sand Savant after the previous nerf and now it remains the same. Until Anet revamps scourge altogether, it will never die in WvW. Its design is just too perfect for it.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find it hilarious that 10 man boon ball groups still think they can just ram into the boon ball zerg and expect a miracle.
    Tiniwinimini boon ball! vs Largiblobiomgini boon ball! who would win I wonder!
    Top it off when you have TWO tiniwinimini boon balls pushing one at a time at said largiblobiomgini boon balls!
    Hilarious.

    This message is endorsed and paid for by the MultiServerIndoBoonBlobFarmGuild.

    P.S Nerf Necros moar!

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me