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Scourge nerf was needed and is great for the zerg scene

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  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Ofc it is, It still brings the most corrupts in the game, ontop of all the barrier and still has pretty strong damage

    I'm not a meta expert myself but the commander I run with who's been playing since launch suggested that Scourge will probably be useless in meta. Maybe I misinterpreted his statement and it will still fit a certain role in smaller numbers, but the statement was that Scourge players will have to reconsider whether they will be running Scourge at all in the future, when I asked whether I should make any immediate changes to my build.

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Not much has changed. No one took Sand Savant after the previous nerf and now it remains the same. Until Anet revamps scourge altogether, it will never die in WvW. Its design is just too perfect for it.

    We were still playing with Sand Savant. 5 targets on target or self is still great. 10 targets obviously overkill.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Scourge still has a role in zergs, despite the nerf. Barrier and massive boon corrupts are still there. The good thing is that more classes are viable now, reaper for example since the fights shifted to more melee oriented pushes.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2020

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Ofc it is, It still brings the most corrupts in the game, ontop of all the barrier and still has pretty strong damage

    I'm not a meta expert myself but the commander I run with who's been playing since launch suggested that Scourge will probably be useless in meta. Maybe I misinterpreted his statement and it will still fit a certain role in smaller numbers, but the statement was that Scourge players will have to reconsider whether they will be running Scourge at all in the future, when I asked whether I should make any immediate changes to my build.

    He is exaggerating that a bit too much, Scourge still has Barrier, Shade and Support skills with that, along with the corrupts and wells, it's still good to use

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2020

    Set your group as such

    Fb scrap spell (these three can be support)
    Minstrel minstrel cleric
    Then reaper and scourge (dps)
    You got spike and dps and bubbles and cleanse and heals.

    Then 1 herald per 10. For the damage mitigation on facets and your on demand dwarf staff hammer.

    Make your reaper scourge and rev run vampirism runes. So they gain 10% hp per kill.

    You can rotate the roles as you please and make your own synergy but you got to have fields , stealth, cleanse, and blasts. Boon removal and spikes and corrups are a must.

    :3

    Or you can just have two healers and make a range group

    Fb scrap (healers)
    Then range with revs scourge and weaver.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2020

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    Now of course people played Scourge because they love Necro in general which is fine, but lets not pretend that Scourge required any skill, it is easiest meta spec to play out of them all, Please play the other classes and tell us how you get on.

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    If you consider scourge casual, and the game as a eternal casual game it makes even less sense as of WHY they did nerf it in the first place. If it makes the casuals happy, dont destroy it. Its a casual game after all. The entire thought process and reasoning is off. Scourge never was the most optimal solution, it was the laziest, so a perfect fit for casuals, and not a big factor for the real hardcore gamers that actually look for the most effective way to deal damage / support and whatever.

    So in conclusion, if you want the game to be "casual friendly" dont remove whats making it casual friendly - thats exactly what they did. They also didnt want to make the game more complex, or bringing the skill cap up, else they would have nerfed the bigger no brainers like Guardians or Revs as well .

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 14, 2020

    @Brujeria.7536 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    If you consider scourge casual, and the game as a eternal casual game it makes even less sense as of WHY they did nerf it in the first place. If it makes the casuals happy, dont destroy it. Its a casual game after all. The entire thought process and reasoning is off. Scourge never was the most optimal solution, it was the laziest, so a perfect fit for casuals, and not a big factor for the real hardcore gamers that actually look for the most effective way to deal damage / support and whatever.

    So in conclusion, if you want the game to be "casual friendly" dont remove whats making it casual friendly - thats exactly what they did. They also didnt want to make the game more complex, or bringing the skill cap up, else they would have nerfed the bigger no brainers like Guardians or Revs as well .

    Going by that mentality, lets give Tempest stability on Auras, CoR does 75% more damage, Guardians apply 5 stacks of burn when sharing retal, Mirage has 4 dodges and so on.

    2nd thing is Scourge is far from being 'Destroyed' just an exaggeration really. And again you are complaining about other classes, but I bet you have no idea what they do, Please play Guard or Rev if it's so braindead and easy

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 15, 2020

    if we go this way maybe give necromancer mobility or blocks or invul or invisibility from other classes ?be slowest of them all its not good in fight-and all know it :)
    lets lokk what anet do:
    1."Shade Skills: These have been changed back to triggering at both the necromancer's location and their shade locations with each use" -noone ask for it becose 5 taget aoe loks ok and its standard aoe targets in gw2- it looks like they make this to compensate incoming nerfs to oher skills?
    2."Vampiric Rituals: This trait has been removed and replaced with the trait Blood Bank" - so they removed wells trait that give 20% red cooldowns, protecions and life steal- so to compensate they give shorter cd
    3."Blood Bank: This new trait replaces Vampiric Rituals in the Blood Magic grandmaster slot. It causes healing over your maximum health amount to be converted into barrier. Regeneration effects do not trigger this trait."- this may be good on guardian or eles becose they can heal from 0 to hero in sekonds but on necro?- its uselles on necromancer class and it loks like design fail!
    4."Signets of Suffering: This trait has been moved to the master tier and replaces Dread. The enhanced signet effect now only activates when in shroud. The enhanced effect for Signet of the Locust has changed to be a 33% movement speed bonus. The enhanced effect for Signet of Vampirism has changed to increase the number of targets to 2 for the passive life siphon." signets was used to solo or smal group fight to survive few seconds focus fire- clear nerf to signets build- this traint only work in shroud now and most important healing skill nerfed:
    5."Signet of Vampirism: The passive effect for this skill has been reworked. It now causes the necromancer to steal a small amount of health from a nearby foe every second while in combat- so now it works only Radius: 180- nice joke to the slowest class in game to stay in close combat where all others are faster than you and can easy hit and run like with pew pew bow :) Radius: 180- uselles :)

    So after this buff to shades that noone ask and clear nerf to other necro skills they come with this:
    "Shade Skills: Reduced the target cap of shades from 3 to 2 in WvW only. Reduced the target cap of greater shades from 5 to 2 in WvW only.
    So shades skills now have 2 "aoe" tagets - 2 target dont loks like aoe in gw2 :) - so shades overnerfed :)
    Wells cd restored to normal cd and trait for wells gone- wth?
    Sand Savant- Recharge Increase:100%, Radius Increase: 120- ON 2 target skill?? first selfnerf GM trait in gw2 - design fail!
    Any other 5 target aoe dps or suport class its now beter than 2 "aoe" scourge :)

    So loking what dev do in last path and in 24 hours "hotfix" its clear- they dont know what they do in balance team :)
    and players can write what they think about it :)

    Loking on wvsw and scourges drop numbers- most players now try other options and classes , some of main scourge player will leave/change game becose the way how dev make path and fixes give a bad taste about gw2 :) And if there are realy so many scourge players in wvsw it may have some impact in wvsw and gw2 population drop :) There its not only gw2 on the games market :) So gl, hf :)

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Ofc it is, It still brings the most corrupts in the game, ontop of all the barrier and still has pretty strong damage

    I'm not a meta expert myself but the commander I run with who's been playing since launch suggested that Scourge will probably be useless in meta. Maybe I misinterpreted his statement and it will still fit a certain role in smaller numbers, but the statement was that Scourge players will have to reconsider whether they will be running Scourge at all in the future, when I asked whether I should make any immediate changes to my build.

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Not much has changed. No one took Sand Savant after the previous nerf and now it remains the same. Until Anet revamps scourge altogether, it will never die in WvW. Its design is just too perfect for it.

    We were still playing with Sand Savant. 5 targets on target or self is still great. 10 targets obviously overkill.

    I'm guessing you're talking about gvg in guildhalls? Because Sand Savant hits 2 people on shade and 2 on yourself in WvW. Unless you take for the extra range (there are better siege clearing classes), it's a self nerf.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    If you consider scourge casual, and the game as a eternal casual game it makes even less sense as of WHY they did nerf it in the first place. If it makes the casuals happy, dont destroy it. Its a casual game after all. The entire thought process and reasoning is off. Scourge never was the most optimal solution, it was the laziest, so a perfect fit for casuals, and not a big factor for the real hardcore gamers that actually look for the most effective way to deal damage / support and whatever.

    So in conclusion, if you want the game to be "casual friendly" dont remove whats making it casual friendly - thats exactly what they did. They also didnt want to make the game more complex, or bringing the skill cap up, else they would have nerfed the bigger no brainers like Guardians or Revs as well .

    Going by that mentality, lets give Tempest stability on Auras, CoR does 75% more damage, Guardians apply 5 stacks of burn when sharing retal, Mirage has 4 dodges and so on.

    Why would you do that though? These classes are already heavily overperforming, even though they are rather easy to play as well. There literally is nothing easier then playing a rev, even if you are bloody casual, you just need to spam one skill with the right gear and you will heavily outperfom every casual scourge damage wise by MILES and also pretty much every other class besides ele. And that skill is spamable, multi hitting and you dont even have to worry about reflects or walls whatsoever. When playing support heavy classes like firebrand you dont even need to aim most of your skills, defensive skills activate around yourself, in a big range to multiple targets, its the most carefree thing in the world. These classes also dont need to sacrifice anything in order to do so, revenant does baseline, even without an espec, massive damage, core guard is baseline very good at supporting, the specs dont take from these classes they only increase the power even more. Yet they keep nerfing the wrong specs.

    2nd thing is Scourge is far from being 'Destroyed' just an exaggeration really. And again you are complaining about other classes, but I bet you have no idea what they do, Please play Guard or Rev if it's so braindead and easy.

    Scourge pretty much is destroyed. Shades deal no damage, neither condi, nor power. The support is lacking far behind every other support spec. They slaughtered the cooldowns quite a few patches ago, so the uptime is not great. And to top it all of they now reduced the amount of targets affected to 2. Initially necromancer also has no support built into its kit, so it pretty much all depends on scourge class skills. There is no other support Skill that does affect only 2 targets, and there is also no other AOE offensive skill that only affects 2 targets. Seriously. Imagine "Stand your ground " or CoR affecting only 2 targets in total. You get the deal. Now i do know, that scourge can potentially do both with one shade, but thats also not very uncommon and is AoE based, so not reliable at all.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brujeria.7536 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    If you consider scourge casual, and the game as a eternal casual game it makes even less sense as of WHY they did nerf it in the first place. If it makes the casuals happy, dont destroy it. Its a casual game after all. The entire thought process and reasoning is off. Scourge never was the most optimal solution, it was the laziest, so a perfect fit for casuals, and not a big factor for the real hardcore gamers that actually look for the most effective way to deal damage / support and whatever.

    So in conclusion, if you want the game to be "casual friendly" dont remove whats making it casual friendly - thats exactly what they did. They also didnt want to make the game more complex, or bringing the skill cap up, else they would have nerfed the bigger no brainers like Guardians or Revs as well .

    Going by that mentality, lets give Tempest stability on Auras, CoR does 75% more damage, Guardians apply 5 stacks of burn when sharing retal, Mirage has 4 dodges and so on.

    Why would you do that though? These classes are already heavily overperforming, even though they are rather easy to play as well. There literally is nothing easier then playing a rev, even if you are bloody casual, you just need to spam one skill with the right gear and you will heavily outperfom every casual scourge damage wise by MILES and also pretty much every other class besides ele. And that skill is spamable, multi hitting and you dont even have to worry about reflects or walls whatsoever. When playing support heavy classes like firebrand you dont even need to aim most of your skills, defensive skills activate around yourself, in a big range to multiple targets, its the most carefree thing in the world. These classes also dont need to sacrifice anything in order to do so, revenant does baseline, even without an espec, massive damage, core guard is baseline very good at supporting, the specs dont take from these classes they only increase the power even more. Yet they keep nerfing the wrong specs.

    2nd thing is Scourge is far from being 'Destroyed' just an exaggeration really. And again you are complaining about other classes, but I bet you have no idea what they do, Please play Guard or Rev if it's so braindead and easy.

    Scourge pretty much is destroyed. Shades deal no damage, neither condi, nor power. The support is lacking far behind every other support spec. They slaughtered the cooldowns quite a few patches ago, so the uptime is not great. And to top it all of they now reduced the amount of targets affected to 2. Initially necromancer also has no support built into its kit, so it pretty much all depends on scourge class skills. There is no other support Skill that does affect only 2 targets, and there is also no other AOE offensive skill that only affects 2 targets. Seriously. Imagine "Stand your ground " or CoR affecting only 2 targets in total. You get the deal. Now i do know, that scourge can potentially do both with one shade, but thats also not very uncommon and is AoE based, so not reliable at all.

    Okay, Not going to comment much on this because it's just a load of kitten coming from you, Play all these easy classes and see what happens.

  • Having played scourge a couple of times in zerg after the patch, it does not feel like that much of a nerf. The greater shade trait is worse than useless, it would actually be better to leave the trait unselected than to take that trait. However, the damage added to well of darkness more than makes up, especially in spike damage. It does make placement of your bomb more critical. Groups that move together well and make a lot of direction changes are more difficult to get good damage on than before, unruly blobs not so much. It also takes a bit longer to get the shade aspect of the bomb off to maximum effect, since you must drop multiple shades to be effective, instead of the one large one. I imagine that the fewer targets might have been partly to help with the lag issues as well though.

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Ofc it is, It still brings the most corrupts in the game, ontop of all the barrier and still has pretty strong damage

    I'm not a meta expert myself but the commander I run with who's been playing since launch suggested that Scourge will probably be useless in meta. Maybe I misinterpreted his statement and it will still fit a certain role in smaller numbers, but the statement was that Scourge players will have to reconsider whether they will be running Scourge at all in the future, when I asked whether I should make any immediate changes to my build.

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Taylan.2187 said:
    But reducing the number of targets on the big shade from 5 to 2 is ridiculous. It just makes it completely useless.

    Does it?

    Is scourge still meta in zergs? Because if it is, that doesnt make sense to me.

    Not much has changed. No one took Sand Savant after the previous nerf and now it remains the same. Until Anet revamps scourge altogether, it will never die in WvW. Its design is just too perfect for it.

    We were still playing with Sand Savant. 5 targets on target or self is still great. 10 targets obviously overkill.

    I'm guessing you're talking about gvg in guildhalls? Because Sand Savant hits 2 people on shade and 2 on yourself in WvW. Unless you take for the extra range (there are better siege clearing classes), it's a self nerf.

    Nah, we run in WvW with group sizes ranging from ~60 at prime-time (full squad + randoms) to just ~10 during off-hours, fighting similarly sized groups and taking objectives. I don't know the exact reasons Sand Savant was still recommended but I'm guessing that it's a combination of the better range and the difficulty of placing the multiple smaller shades at the right spot quickly enough.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just have 3 necros

    Fb power rev then 3 scourges :3 you'll thank me later

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • yinn.2317yinn.2317 Member
    edited July 16, 2020

    Why would you do that though? These classes are already heavily overperforming, even though they are rather easy to play as well.

    try playing a healing tempest or staff weaver with full berserker gear and come back again to tell us how easy it is.

    Scourge pretty much is destroyed. Shades deal no damage, neither condi, nor power.

    this is an over exaggeration. desert shroud still provides nice spike damage; just run spite 1/2/3 and place all your shades down on an enemy stack and press f5 and f2 when heavy bombing. dunno why you brought up condi when condi's been irrelevant for a while now.

    The support is lacking far behind every other support spec.

    Sand Flare and Trail of Anguish still exist y'know. maybe you should use them more often. besides, scourge has always been primarily used for their boon corrupts and damage. what other support spec provides those two things all at once?

    And to top it all of they now reduced the amount of targets affected to 2.

    the target cap has been reduced because of how oppressive scourge overall is. before the patch, scourges could easily corrupt 10 targets by placing down 2 shades and then hitting shade f2, which isn't really difficult to do. the 15 target Desert Shroud combined with Trail, Breach, and Wells means that not only are scourges corrupting a bunch, but they're also providing massive spike damage for their whole team. run 2 of them in every party in a 50+ person blob, and you can see how that can get overwhelming pretty quick. this is why scourge needed to be toned down, and i'm saying this as a person who plays the class nearly all the time. i don't agree with reducing the target cap to 2 for shades, but these changes are overall good. otherwise, lower CDs on wells in tandem with 12 targets on shades would have done nothing but encourage lazy playing, and more freecasting.

    you say that scourge is "pretty much destroyed", but their damage and corrupts are still very much alive. it's not like the hotfix team nerfed scourge's other skills, and hell shades still have a use, they just now require more effort on part of the scourge to be used effectively.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 18, 2020

    So if scourge its ok in wvsw plis tell me why no scourges on organized groups anymore? :) (guards and eles like more everywhere)
    And today on 32 man zerg only 1 scourge :) (and ofc a lots of guards eles rev and engis) :)
    Anyone know why no scourges on wvsw? :)

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because they only want to run lazy melee boon balls, stack more support, less risk overall.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    So if scourge its ok in wvsw plis tell me why no scourges on organized groups anymore? :) (guards and eles like more everywhere)
    And today on 32 man zerg only 1 scourge :) (and ofc a lots of guards eles rev and engis) :)
    Anyone know why no scourges on wvsw? :)

    I dont, because I still se a metric ton of scourges in zergs.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • MELORD.5013MELORD.5013 Member ✭✭✭

    scourge is not deleted it still has alot of boonstrip , having one scourge in each party is usefull with a reaper for big spins

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    I play on first tier mathups and see like noone play scourge now (its like top 3 populated servers- all wvsw its about numers of players over time)
    Yes organized groups have like all boons in the world whole time up and loks there its no class to effective remove it now and no point of try remove it becose they restack boons just seconds after remove some- boons restack have now to big advantages vs boon remove (number of boons removed on most necro skills was great nerfed -like from 3 to 1 and from 2 to1 so loks uselles now) and loks only way to counter boons its use boons group to- if you cant kill them join them! :)
    On random pug zergs usually are some scourges but its like 10- 20% of the numbers like was few week's ago.
    On organized 5+ groups i see 0 scourges used now becose scourge its to slow and easy to ff firts kill (before last path scourge was always first target to ff becose easiest to kill)- so players use other 5 targets suport and more mobile/immune to ff classes and its so kitten stupid how long fights on small scale organized groups can now be like 3-5 minutes before anyone die!
    On zergs more players win - you have some chances to remove bigger zerg only if hit from back when they dont know that other zerg its here :)

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    So if scourge its ok in wvsw plis tell me why no scourges on organized groups anymore? :) (guards and eles like more everywhere)
    And today on 32 man zerg only 1 scourge :) (and ofc a lots of guards eles rev and engis) :)
    Anyone know why no scourges on wvsw? :)

    Guards will always be required because of Stability, whether or not Scourge gets nerfed or buffed Same goes with Tempest, Weaver is pretty dead, Scrapper is the same situation as Tempest but probably a bit better due to Purity of Purpose i guess, as for necro, It's still good :) there is just more diversity with Reaper or Scourge which is a good thing.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    Reaper its to fragile and bring less utility to group then guard or scrapper so beter go scrapper ewen tempest its harder to ff and kill then reaper :)
    What will happen to guards, tempest and scrapers if their support/buff/heal aoe skills will be change to 3? They shal be still viable and in a good spot, and it will give more diversity of other classes in wvsw fights :)

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    What will happen to guards, tempest and scrapers if their support/buff/heal aoe skills will be change to 3? They shal be still viable and in a good spot, and it will give more diversity of other classes in wvsw fights :)

    Not really, just more guardians

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Reaper its to fragile and bring less utility to group then guard or scrapper so beter go scrapper ewen tempest its harder to ff and kill then reaper :)

    Reaper brings Damage and Corrupts while Guard provides Stability and Aegis and Scrapper/Tempest brings Cleansing and Healing, the the two are not something you can compare as they are different roles, Either way Scourge or Reaper will be good because it brings Damage and Corrupts

  • Corrupt its to muth nerfed to be efective on boongroups now (like i rember from 3 to1 and from 2 to 1 on necro skills-reapper its used for dps becose good boonstrip dont exists now) you will remove 1 and they take 3 new- to muth boonspam aoe to be 1 boonstrip efective.
    So if we change
    guards, tempest and scrapers support/buff/heal aoe skills from 5 to 3 they still will be dominating in organized groups wvsw fights ? This dont sounds good about their current power... i think this shal give more diversify? So what need happened to give more diversity? Change all classes aoe skills to 2?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    @MELORD.5013 said:
    scourge is not deleted it still has alot of boonstrip , having one scourge in each party is usefull with a reaper for big spins

    The reaper unblockables.... arghhh i hate them! xD

  • Y i hate to when have channelled block and get hits but good that reappers are slow melee and visible :)

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Y i hate to when have channelled block and get hits but good that reappers are slow melee and visible :)

    even worse is when theres thief and reapers with several dragon banners!, i doubt Anet knows what going on xD

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Corrupt its to muth nerfed to be efective on boongroups now (like i rember from 3 to1 and from 2 to 1 on necro skills-reapper its used for dps becose good boonstrip dont exists now) you will remove 1 and they take 3 new- to muth boonspam aoe to be 1 boonstrip efective.
    So if we change
    guards, tempest and scrapers support/buff/heal aoe skills from 5 to 3 they still will be dominating in organized groups wvsw fights ? This dont sounds good about their current power... i think this shal give more diversify? So what need happened to give more diversity? Change all classes aoe skills to 2?

    Corrupts still good, Reapers/Scourge are still dominating that side of fights and to think that they are not effective shows your lack of understanding, do you let warrior bubbles just sit inside your group?

    Again you just literally ignored what I said, doing that won't increase diversity, it will just decrease it by needing Guards more.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    Loks like you dont play wvsw with organized groups last time? :) after people try testing bonstrip vs boonbal groups (yes we whone know if scourge its oki-now are better options with more targets and less buttons to press to be more effective) its clear that boonbal its muth better :) scourges 2 target aoe barier/heal/bonremoval its uselles compare to other options so other 5 target aoe clases take some part of the scourges rolle and replace them ( yes wariors can do jobs here while be more mobile and not so vulnerable on ff).
    I don't think that change target from 5 to 3 will bring more guards - same players tell about scourges and now they not used like guards or other top 3 :)
    So it will be weery interesting to see what will happened if guards, tempest and scrappers will be 3 target aoe :)
    I think dev can do it with a hotfix anytime :)
    Thiefs will show up on zergs fights? :)

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Loks like you dont play wvsw with organized groups last time? :) after people try testing bonstrip vs boonbal groups (yes we whone know if scourge its oki-now are better options with more targets and less buttons to press to be more effective) its clear that boonbal its muth better :) scourges 2 target aoe barier/heal/bonremoval its uselles compare to other options so other 5 target aoe clases take some part of the scourges rolle and replace them ( yes wariors can do jobs here while be more mobile and not so vulnerable on ff).
    I don't think that change target from 5 to 3 will bring more guards - same players tell about scourges and now they not used like guards or other top 3 :)
    So it will be weery interesting to see what will happened if guards, tempest and scrappers will be 3 target aoe :)
    I think dev can do it with a hotfix anytime :)
    Thiefs will show up on zergs fights? :)

    Except scourges are still good lol, Necros just seem to be entitled to having a overpowered spec after so long and finally being bought more in line with every other class, and yes groups need stability, so more guards will be needed. Warrior bubbles are good for removing boons but Corrupting is better. Hotfix isn't needed because most specs are not overperforming to a point where it makes the game mode ridiculous due to one spec, unlike scourge before the hotfix. Thief class design is a problem for them when it comes to zergs.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    So you tell that if some class its used on be in top 5 clases used in wvsw they overpowered? Like a guards from the begining of wvsw? This make have someting to do with guards, tempest and scrapers be on top now? So we need bring them back in line with others :) 3 targets aoe on support/buff/heal on top wvsw guards,tempest and scrapper sounds good :) lets see what bring next balance path in wvsw :)

  • Beter watch your worlds :)
    Before you just tell that if some class like scourge its used in top 3 wvsw classes its overpowered :) So after nerf one of the top class like scourge next point its to nerf other top clases to bring them in line with others :) its called balance :)

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KlausKNT.9302 said:
    Beter watch your worlds :)
    Before you just tell that if some class like scourge its used in top 3 wvsw classes its overpowered :) So after nerf one of the top class like scourge next point its to nerf other top clases to bring them in line with others :) its called balance :)

    Of course, but let me say once more, Scourge was oppressive and totally overpowered after the patch and before the hotfix, while all the other classes in a zerg were not overperforming as much as scourge. Sand Savant needs a change in competitive scene but yeah perhaps Weaver can do more damage, Renegade becomes useful, Ranger in general becomes useful along with Thief.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 19, 2020

    Yes buff to shades when noone ask for it was underserved and strange like they need some excuses to nerf/remove signets build from playable state and remove wells trait to bring uselles on necro blood bank trait :)
    On the stream they tell they need do changes in game to move forward -so expect unexpected in next balance pathes :) if they make some bad changes there always its next balance path :)
    If they whone move the direction to lower lags by lower aoe target skills- its just the begining of balance changes :)

  • geist.4126geist.4126 Member ✭✭✭

    Weaver doesn't provide enough what? Do you really play Ele? And it's still more viable options than Necro. So, why exactly do you want Scourge to become less an option? Even more Ele spots?

    WSR is the only server where people call in /t for help when dueling.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @geist.4126 said:
    Weaver doesn't provide enough what? Do you really play Ele? And it's still more viable options than Necro. So, why exactly do you want Scourge to become less an option? Even more Ele spots?

    Lol, Not really what I had in mind, but whatever you want i guess, I never said less of an option, Scourge was ridiculous either way Barrier,Damage,Corrupts,Area Denial.. anyone interested in balance would understand that one spec to do all that and not even need to invest stats into it other than full zerker would know that's busted, The hotfix nerf was deserved imo, Sand Savant needs a change so it doesn't actually nerf scourge over helping it, and Yeah, Weaver has one skill that is RNG and easy to avoid, Scourge has Wells,Shades,Breach,Desert Shroud, Even Trail of Anguish can do a ton of damage if played well.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The solution to balance problems isn't to just create a rock-paper-scissors scenario.

    Scourge definitively was overpowered. Even against primarily boonless builds it was still overpowered.
    It doesn't mean boons aren't a problem anymore. It just means now there's actually a good reason to fix them because the only thing matching their power and keeping them somewhat in check has been reigned in.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Brujeria.7536 said:
    Honestly the worst change they ever made in the history of WvW. Apparently its okay for eles to kitten out massive damage in a huge AOEs without effor and without even needing utility skills. Or revenants dealing absurd amounts of damage with CoR from long range, with a very low cooldown coming spontaneous, without any counterplay as its not even an projectile. Its also okay for guardians to spill boons and heals like candy on 5 + allies without ANY risk involved. But you know, if people actually need to move out of a small aoe circle to prevent a laughably booncorrupt and an even more laughable amount of damage that was already split between power and condi, everyone freaks out.

    Basicly they want to degenrate the WvW meta even more, removing even the need to walk out of AoE circles. Oh no, god forbid if the zerglings would actually need skill to be effective. Gw2 is a casual game after all.

    Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill?

    Now of course people played Scourge because they love Necro in general which is fine, but lets not pretend that Scourge required any skill, it is easiest meta spec to play out of them all, Please play the other classes and tell us how you get on.

    It's just as easy to play a bad scourge, as it is to play a bad weaver.
    But the good players of both, scourge and weaver are pretty rare.

    Yes scourge is easier to start with, but if you want to actually be good, you have to predict enemy movement just as well, as an ele has to.

    Throwing your spike at the right spot at the right time, and placing shades, on the most effective positions is crucial for a good scourge.
    Also knowing, when breach is best to use.

    It's basically the exact same as ele. With the difference, that ele is a backliners, while scourges go to the front.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    Ah, there you are, Nimon. And just how i expecting it, you are once again showing your extreme bias against eles. I really wonder what happend to you. Its sad, really..
    scourge and (staff) weaver, both are aoe damage dealer... whats your fight even about?

    There is like ONE thing you can play as a staff weaver, which is an almost bersi (marauder at max)/rune of scholar/strenghts, fire/air traitet, sigil of force/bloodlust using build as a PRIME example of a glass cannon... and even on a build like that, your only skill of any real importance, meteor shower, does give that dedicated staff weaver numbers like "you critically hit for 1999 (2500 is avoided by barrier), or even "zero", because stacking barrier - up to crazy 50% of the players hp by barrier is shared to by the scourges (as you, for sure, know). Insanity.

    And while a staff weaver have to give up almost every personal survivability, and any group support
    -scourges can choose any stat comp that they like, from trailblazer to celestial, marauders or even berserker stats, and EVERYTHING in between, while NOT losing their ability to play at least THREE different ways to build and play their Scourge- as barrier sharing, boon corrupts, heavy aoes/area denial stays almost the same.

    You think its equally "easy" to play an power based backline 15k hp staff weaver, like an 20k (+10k barrier) marauder scourge at the front line? Really?? You think its a hard task to be at the front line, provided all boons by the firebrands, all barriers by fellow scourges, all buffs by the revenants? The warrior bubbles? And you are not even a melee class, Scourges do have a 1100 to units range at least- just 118 less than a staff weaver (to keep it simple, not going over every ability).

    Its so funny, how you make its sound like playing "backline ele" is easy, while it can be downed in an glimpse of an eye, by any thief, mesmer, ranger, holo, rev, or (even) warrior, if he wanted to.
    Scource, staying at the frontline, while he is an melee/midrange/long range damage dealing "SUPPORT" class on its own...

    Maybe i find that youtube video that was posted 2 weeks ago, of a "poor squishy" marauder scourge running havoc with its blob in wvw. Maybe i will post it for fun... but i dont think so, i dont know how to link a video here.

    Its not important anyway.

    Staff weavers are for sure as easy to play like scourge, in large scale wvw....

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm waiting for players to actually run staff guardian using symbols as range damage. Might be a nice thing to use too in the future

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    ....must be the reason why there are 20 scourges in a squad, but only 1 or 2 staff weavers, if at all.... necro players just have inherently more "skill" must be the reason, and they like to show it...
    No?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeran.6850 said:
    ....must be the reason why there are 20 scourges in a squad, but only 1 or 2 staff weavers, if at all.... necro players just have inherently more "skill" must be the reason, and they like to show it...
    No?

    Fb rev scourge scourge Weaver can werk. That should give you atleast 10 Weaver's.

    :3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    I wish somehow, but its still way more safe, and convinient, to just your staff weaver to tempest.
    And it its feels like a joke to hear that from you, especially (no offence)... i am pretty shure you know, that guild groups have been about to deny any ele build any excess to their comp, after the february balance, aside of, maybe, aura share tempest...but even that had a big question mark on it.

  • Jeran.6850Jeran.6850 Member ✭✭

    Sorry again if i sound ...unfriendly. Keep in mind (again), this is not the language i am used to express my opionions, or what is going on in my mind.
    I wish all the people that are still caring about wvw, the best of luck, and ....i wish we can stay here playing this game together.
    WvW in GW2 is amazing, even after 8+years - at least, to me. Sometimes frustating, but most of the time- engaging, stressfull, and maybe just because of that- a lot of fun.

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    Actually on t1 organized groups/zergs i see much more tempest then scourges like yesterday on 37 man organized zerg was 2 scourges and 6 tempest. On 5 to 15 havoc groups usualy its on ewery 5 players 1 tempest but i don't see on any of this groups using scourges now :) (standard comp on each 5 players in group its -1 guard 1 ele 1 engi + 2 free slots ) :)
    On pug zegs/groups its a different story becose players come to wvsw with random classes that they play in pve and random gear and lvls- before they realize that wvsw skills can work different and it usually take some time before they gear up and/or change class to be more effective (usually low lvls or/and with low rank gear -they die in fight in a second and give enemy group/zerg big advantage on fight) :)

  • KlausKNT.9302KlausKNT.9302 Member ✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    The problem with scourge in fron line its that it have no instant teleport or invul or block to survive bombs and this big hp come to 0 in a 1-2 seconds in enemy charge covered usually by cc chain's- so gl to try survive with 2 target 180 radius shade barrier skills on the slowest class in gw2 :) Play in backline its always better becose you can run when see its coming and front line have fallen :)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    I'm waiting for players to actually run staff guardian using symbols as range damage. Might be a nice thing to use too in the future

    Maybe even large symbols!

    Wait no, every firebrand in the zerg goes absolutely nuts if they see it. I had one zerg rant and rant about large symbols until they finally narrowed down that it was me making a larger symbol.

    But I couldnt trait elixir gun 5 to be smaller :/

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeran.6850 said:
    I wish somehow, but its still way more safe, and convinient, to just your staff weaver to tempest.
    And it its feels like a joke to hear that from you, especially (no offence)... i am pretty shure you know, that guild groups have been about to deny any ele build any excess to their comp, after the february balance, aside of, maybe, aura share tempest...but even that had a big question mark on it.

    It's ok. The strategy needs it be experienced so ppl will notice. Wait a bit more before ppl call nerfing again

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.