Blood Bank: Anet, this is Design Failure

Here is why:

1. The trait concept itself is imaginably useful and clever in some cases. The problem is that those cases are so few and far between, it will preclude people from taking the trait on the low chance it does something for them.
2. The trait on it's own actually does nothing ... it requires other traits and skills for it to even trigger and it's effectiveness is determine by how much loading up of these skills a player takes. Arguably, the number of traits and skills that would trigger this effect and provide a barrier is low to begin with.
3. Blowing a heal as a combat opener to get maximum impact from this trait is poor design; If people are going to use a heal, it should be to primarily heal, not to trigger a GM trait for an damage mitigation effect that the same heal would provide (and more effectively in some cases) in the first place.

For me, #2 is the worst ... at LEAST there should be SOME minimum effect from this trait for every encounter/time interval

Yeah like no shit. Most normal builds would not have much beyond their heal skills and the barrier that can be gained from siphons and Soul Eater would be just deleted with some random auto coming your way. It would have some general use if it didn't compete with Transfusion but that is also the case.

This trait is made for the Healbrands babysitting the necro, and as others said its a 'win more' trait in the sense that if you can make a lot of use of this trait that would mean you are usually overhealing and so you have no trouble surviving to begin with. It is also a meme PvE trait where one can get reasonable sustained heals from something like Parasitic Contagion. Otherwise its just trash.

I am not comfortable with the mind-set Arenanet imagines I have in order to use this trait.

Something like, "My health is topped off so this is the perfect opportunity to blow a heal so I can face-tank the next shot instead of dodging or countering it. Then, when my heal is off cool down I can do it again."

Actually the trait doesn't seems to be designed to to provide a big chunk of barrier once, but to provide constant barrier ticks taking advantage from other effects:Does it work with heals from food?Does it work with heals from runes and sigils?Does it work with all the healing traits?

Letting aside the fact that you'd need to be in full health for an extended period for those sustained heals to add up to barrier, do you think one can stack barrier to a reasonably degree on their own in competitive modes?

The only viable use it has is to cleanse conditions on Scourge builds with the barrier trait. But if they're damaging conditions, that requires the player's health be reasonably high enough to gain a barrier from their heals first.

In other words, this trait is only super useful in the first five seconds of combat.

@Hannelore.8153 said:The only viable use it has is to cleanse conditions on Scourge builds with the barrier trait. But if they're damaging conditions, that requires the player's health be reasonably high enough to gain a barrier from their heals first.

In other words, this trait is only super useful in the first five seconds of combat.

Problem is. It doesn't work like that. Abrasive grit doesn't trigger when you get barrier from that trait (would be too broken)

I see nothing wrong with traits that rely on group support. It adds additional depth to builds, theoretically. Getting additional barrier in shroud also sounds like something you would want. As a Scourge maybe less so, since you will probably cap it by yourself already.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:The only viable use it has is to cleanse conditions on Scourge builds with the barrier trait. But if they're damaging conditions, that requires the player's health be reasonably high enough to gain a barrier from their heals first.

In other words, this trait is only super useful in the first five seconds of combat.

I don't even know what's going on with the dev team anymore. It all seems so.. random and misplaced.

As a Grandmaster tier trait, it is supposed to change your characters entire playstyle with something unique, impactful and different.

I dont feel this trait meets those criteria.

Beyond being an unneeded win more feature, It is:

Requisite on another class consistent healing when you are full health - i.e. babysitter fallacyDoes not provide powerful synergy with the game modes the options it replaced was intended forIs not comparable in effect to other grandmaster traits

In short, it should be removed, adjusted or moved to a lower and more appropriate tier to better match its impact.

@anduriell.6280 said:Actually the trait doesn't seems to be designed to to provide a big chunk of barrier once, but to provide constant barrier ticks taking advantage from other effects:Does it work with heals from food?Does it work with heals from runes and sigils?Does it work with all the healing traits?

It doesn't work from Healing Food.It doesn't work off of Dolyak signet passive.It works off of traits like Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.

Also it works off of the passive life steal from Signet of Vampirism.And as others have pointed out, it works from healing granted to you by other players (Empower before push is one that especially comes to mind).

@Blocki.4931 said:I see nothing wrong with traits that rely on group support. It adds additional depth to builds, theoretically. Getting additional barrier in shroud also sounds like something you would want. As a Scourge maybe less so, since you will probably cap it by yourself already.

Right, but those aren't the issues outlined by the original post.

@anduriell.6280 said:Actually the trait doesn't seems to be designed to to provide a big chunk of barrier once, but to provide constant barrier ticks taking advantage from other effects:Does it work with heals from food?Does it work with heals from runes and sigils?Does it work with all the healing traits?

If it works the same as Rune of the Sanctuary, then it doesn't work with healing over time boons/buffs*, but works with everything else.

*This specifically means effects that are applied to your character and provide healing over time, not stuff like Well of Blood.

@Hannelore.8153 said:Exceptions like this shouldn't exist, yet they're becoming more and more common. It creates weird situations where something should work but doesn't; instead its better to introduce an ICD than to just make something not work at all.

I don't even know what's going on with the dev team anymore. It all seems so.. random and misplaced.

It was actually pretty clear from the wording of the traits that this combination won't work, at least for me.

Abrasive Grit directly states that it just and only works with scourge traits and skills.Blood Bank is neither, it is a necromancer trait, since it is a core trait and doesn't come with the scourge trait line.

Everything is working as intended here and the information is there....

Change functionality to: whenever you gain health from a necromancer's life stealing ability or trait, gain an equal amount of barrier as well. Your wells apply Protection to all allies in their areas when cast.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:I see nothing wrong with traits that rely on group support. It adds additional depth to builds, theoretically. Getting additional barrier in shroud also sounds like something you would want. As a Scourge maybe less so, since you will probably cap it by yourself already.

Your point is the trait doesn't offer anything on its own.. I replied that in theory it should be fine for a trait/skill to do that...

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:I see nothing wrong with traits that rely on group support. It adds additional depth to builds, theoretically. Getting additional barrier in shroud also sounds like something you would want. As a Scourge maybe less so, since you will probably cap it by yourself already.

1. Opening a fight with a heal (which is a STUPID mechanic)
2. Opening a fight with Dagger 2 (OK sure, that does work)
3. Hanging in range hoping for stray AOE heals from noobs popping them early in WvW. (That's a pretty expensive trait slot for that kind of impact)
4. Overhealing in PVE team instances (which means you didn't need the barrier anyways since you are at full HP)

The whole question in my mind is what benefit do we get from maintaining 100% HP ... because that's the only think this trait does for you. Overhealing is bad ... EVEN if Anet turns it into temporary damage mitigation.

Nope, Blood Bank is steaming hot garbage juice.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:I see nothing wrong with traits that rely on group support. It adds additional depth to builds, theoretically. Getting additional barrier in shroud also sounds like something you would want. As a Scourge maybe less so, since you will probably cap it by yourself already.

1. Opening a fight with a heal (which is a STUPID mechanic)
2. Opening a fight with Dagger 2 (OK sure, that does work)
3. Hanging in range hoping for stray AOE heals from noobs popping them early in WvW. (That's a pretty expensive trait slot for that kind of impact)
4. Overhealing in PVE team instances (which means you didn't need the barrier anyways since you are at full HP)

I think the potential PvE use is what annoys me the most; Necro with Protection Wells was essential to surviving oneshot mechanics because even if the party has a dedicated healer, sometimes the damage exceeds a player's maximum health (especially on Ele, Guard, Thief). The only way to deal with such situations is with the Protection boon, barrier, or ideally both; something unique Scourge could bring.

Sometimes you can get lucky with Aegis from Guard but only if the damage isn't from multiple hits.

Now we're back to the only viable role for Necros in PvE being a DPS Power Reaper who has even more ways to survive everything while the rest of the party wipes, which means even less reasons to buff our lackluster damage.

Maybe if they changed it to something like: 10% of all incoming healing is "converted" to barrierExclude regeneration effects.

It's not the right wording so I'll give an example:

If you would get healed for 100, you'd get 10 barrier on top.

Maybe that's a bit too weak though (if you look at vital persistence, which is in master tier and gives you 20% incoming healing + 180vitality)

So this trait would have to be at least 30% "converted" to barrier to be kinda on par with vital persistence as bliss bank wouldn't give any other bonuses and it's only temporary bonus health.

I could also think of something like the previous effect, so 20% converted to barrier and you get 200healing power while you have barrier.

For PvE this trait does not have an issue. I can see some use for this trait in soloing fractals etc. for non-Scourge builds or in solo PvE in general where you can expect to have high dps and avoidable incoming damage - which would translate to high sustained healing (and barrier) from traits like Parasitic Contagion or Soul Eater. For instance, Blood Bank would be essential for soloing stuff like Arkk on a non-Scourge build without Sanctuary runes.

The issue is that the incoming damage within the competitive modes are not that well telegraphed or avoidable as they come from smart enemies that keep sustained pressure on you and you can't expect to have high damage on them all the time as they move, evade and CC you. So you wouldn't be able to stack a barrier solo that could not be deleted with a regular auto unless you are 1v1ing a healbrand.

In a competitive environment where others heal you this trait appears somewhat useful on paper. But in practice, you'd either proc this occasionally which wouldn't be as effective on the long run or you'd proc this most of the times which would mean your health is mostly 100% which indicates you didn't need it that much to begin with.

How does this work with the inability to be healed in shroud?

@"Pregnantman.8259" said:For PvE this trait does not have an issue. I can see some use for this trait in soloing fractals etc. for non-Scourge builds or in solo PvE in general where you can expect to have high dps and avoidable incoming damage - which would translate to high sustained healing (and barrier) from traits like Parasitic Contagion or Soul Eater. For instance, Blood Bank would be essential for soloing stuff like Arkk on a non-Scourge build without Sanctuary runes.

The issue is that the incoming damage within the competitive modes are not that well telegraphed or avoidable as they come from smart enemies that keep sustained pressure on you and you can't expect to have high damage on them all the time as they move, evade and CC you. So you wouldn't be able to stack a barrier solo that could not be deleted with a regular auto unless you are 1v1ing a healbrand.

In a competitive environment where others heal you this trait appears somewhat useful on paper. But in practice, you'd either proc this occasionally which wouldn't be as effective on the long run or you'd proc this most of the times which would mean your health is mostly 100% which indicates you didn't need it that much to begin with.

The issue is more that in practice the moment you got this trait doing something is a moment where you don't need it. Objectively, at 19k health having a bit more or a bit less in PvE don't make any big difference. In sPvP, I doubt the trait can produce anything else than a bit of rage against "necro/guardian duo". The only place It make a difference is in WvW zerg, because it will help you maintain these barriers that are spammed on you.

NB.: You forgot minionmancer builds, since you take BM anyway, you'll get a steady stream of health from your minions due to vampiric. Personally I think the most practical use of the trait is in combo with Augury of death, because you tend to use your shouts when you engage your foe(s) and the heal is often lost as overhealing at this moment while you need it closely afterward due to melee damage (and this is true for all gamemodes).

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Pregnantman.8259" said:For PvE this trait does not have an issue. I can see some use for this trait in soloing fractals etc. for non-Scourge builds or in solo PvE in general where you can expect to have high dps and avoidable incoming damage - which would translate to high sustained healing (and barrier) from traits like Parasitic Contagion or Soul Eater. For instance, Blood Bank would be essential for soloing stuff like Arkk on a non-Scourge build without Sanctuary runes.

The issue is that the incoming damage within the competitive modes are not that well telegraphed or avoidable as they come from smart enemies that keep sustained pressure on you and you can't expect to have high damage on them all the time as they move, evade and CC you. So you wouldn't be able to stack a barrier solo that could not be deleted with a regular auto unless you are 1v1ing a healbrand.

In a competitive environment where others heal you this trait appears somewhat useful on paper. But in practice, you'd either proc this occasionally which wouldn't be as effective on the long run or you'd proc this most of the times which would mean your health is mostly 100% which indicates you didn't need it that much to begin with.

Minion life leech is just another way you can get sustained heals in PvE really, so for the purposes of solo PvE a minionmancer would function similarly to any number of other builds with sustained healing. I wouldn't expect minions to give you sustained heals in competitive modes however.

Augury of death heals you for like 125 per shout. On maximum we can expect 625 + 310ish from Vampiric + Vampiric Aura per shout which isn't anything groundbreaking. It could be a nice bonus to the heal shout, but then you would be blowing your heal at high health which is bad practice. It may be interesting to combo this with Signet of Locust maybe which now has utility beyond group heal.

@Pregnantman.8259 said:Minion life leech is just another way you can get sustained heals in PvE really, so for the purposes of solo PvE a minionmancer would function similarly to any number of other builds with sustained healing. I wouldn't expect minions to give you sustained heals in competitive modes however.

Augury of death heals you for like 125 per shout. On maximum we can expect 625 per shout which isn't anything groundbreaking. It could be a nice bonus to the heal shout, but then you would be blowing your heal at high health which is bad practice. It may be interesting to combo this with Signet of Locust maybe which now has utility beyond group heal.

Nope, locust's issue have always been what you lose from using it: movement speed. ANet would have to buff the active to the point of being totally broken to push the players that take this signet to use it's active. The cast time also make it a poor skill to use. I'd rather spam 2-3 shouts at the beginning of the fight to gain 1200-1800 point of barrier and have them on a 13 seconds CD than break my movement speed for a few seconds and gain 6500 point of barrier. The loss of movement speed simply outweight the 2 seconds of large barrier.

You wouldn't benefit from the movement speed while engaging the enemy all that much IMO, and your 1800 barrier might as well be 0 as you would get that much from 5 enemies who wouldn't let you keep such a measly amount or run away with or without the speed bonus.