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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    You can legit use DJ over and over, there's only 2 evades base, just setup a CC it's not that hard when you can daze through stability by stealing it with quickness, attacks being so fast the sound queues don't even match for a proper evade.

    And they have more than just evades to stop your DJ. You on the other hand run out of stealth faster than they run out of anti-DJ options, and thats ignoring that they can just, yknow, fight back and kill you? Daze doesnt stop them from dodging. And quickness isnt used, the trait is just significantly worse than Maleficent seven. And even with quickness its easily avoided.

    What are you on right now?

    Its a little something called "reality". You might want to try it, helps not being stuck in a fantasy land where Deadeyes actually get to hit DJs and use the quickness trait.

    That's implying they use mug? They can steal quickness, my point was that animations don't follow sound queues, this ain't fantasy land. I got actual footage of it.

    Ignoring that they obviously use mug, any quickness they steal runs out before they can use DJ, unless they skip stacking malice, but then DJ doesnt do damage, soooo. And even with quickness the bright orange line remains. Even if the sound were to desync (though thats the first time Ive heard of that. There was a bug where stealth itself desyncs and the telegraph appears after the attack hits, but I havent seen that in a while).

    It's long enough to mess up the feedback, not like it's hard to F1 and press 1 right away, add a shadowstep to disorient even more. Doesn't matter how hard DJ hits as it costs nothing, it's easy to manage Malice when you can sit back left and right safely at +1200 to determine if small bursts of 5k are better than just putting it all in one because the target doesn't know how much Malice there is until it's maxed out with it's vague effect or assumption that "enough damage" was done. It's baiting constantly on a short reveal while the 3 round burst can possibly do the work, following a better DJ as you can easily count the sustain of a class as they try to live through. Without any consistent reveal to outdo a /good/ DE, they cannot be really stomped through any clever play whatsoever and the damage is saved through baiting, add the double marking that denies ANY nullification to the Rifle 2 or ranged CC. Messed up? Perma port/stealth away, random DJ spam 2 after, it's not like you won't have your Malice since you never lose it until a time out, if that DJ is dodged, still have all your Malice, no damage lost after who knows how many proper DJ dodges/blocks.

    Again, if they dont stack malice, thats just not a hard hitting attack at all. Lets say they do that. Steal quickness, and immediately use DJ. The DJ then hits for, hm. 3k-ish? Ok, thats nothing. And then? You say its easy to sit safely at +1200 (I assume you mean just 1200 range here, because kneeling is never used), but you do know other classes with 1200 range exist, right? And classes with mobility to quickly catch up to you? They can and will kill you. Your complete lack of knowledge on DE hurts you again, because Three-Round-Burst is not used at all. Kneeling is trash, you use skirmishers shot. You dont need reveal to kill a DE at all. They can easily be stomped by any half-decent player (Thats why you dont see them be played), and it seems you think they always have max initiative to do whatever they want, but also use their initiative for offense.

    TD;LR Malice shouldn't be kept if missing the stealth attack. The utility available is already strong enough to compensate for mistakes. If not for malice consumption. Reveal should be 5 seconds like ALL other skills.

    "Yeah good job taking an underpowered class and nerfing it further for no actual reason" is what I would usually say. Except ... Im not even sure this is a nerf. Actually this is probably a major buff. Once again your complete lack of knowledge bites you. See, the correct way to play DE is to use maleficent seven, and just spam skirmishers shot until you get the proc. The problem is that then, you would want to hit a DJ to reset malice, but against a half-decent player you dont get to hit a DJ. But with your suggestion? Just burn the DJ into thin air, cancel it, then use skirmishers shot again until youre at max malice. It makes the class way more effective.

    It's a complete lack of knowledge to avoid over 6+ DJ's and yet still keep the ability to deal full damage on a class that can recover in perma stealth and shadowstep back and forth. Just tank everything else that cause damages, even though it deals just as much over time sitting around.

    Man you really should learn to quit when the fact that you dont know the class youre talking about has become clear. Its not even close to "full damage". Somewhere between 70-90% of DEs damage is skirmishers shot off of maleficent seven. DJ is more of a hindrance than a benefit. Hence why your suggestion is a buff. Also, DE doesnt have access to permastealth without switching weapons, and at that point they cant even use DJ. They also dont have the ability to shadowstep back and forth at all (other than by using Shadowstep, which they can do once per fight).

    Having to build up damage again is far from a buff, it actually gives people skills value in not getting constantly hit, that's like when you said shortbow 4 from before is more powerful, it ain't because of it's predictability and time taken.

    Again, dont talk about classes you dont know. You dont have to "build up damage". You dont care about DJ much as DE anyway. Almost all of your damage comes from dumping initiative into skirmishers shot, then using maleficent seven to reset your initiative so you can dump it again. The problem is that you need to clear your initiative to do so, and sadly that means having to try and hit DJ, which never hits. But with your suggestion, that isnt an issue anymore. Just throw out a DJ, hit or miss, your initiative is back down. So you can spam skirmishers shot again. Making your damage higher and a whole lot more reliable. Its a buff.

    I can easily mitigate the dazes knowing that they are because of the poison, not because of a nearly unpredictable unblockable aoe at their feet. Nothing says it's 2 or 4. Wasting all the initiative to keep a down down with poison will only put the thief in a bad position if the resser can take the cleave.

    Aaand thats a random rant that has nothing to do with anything.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2020

    It's useless, can't even understand that Malice not being lost on DJ is basically the most forgiving mechanic in the game. Because even if I avoid everything, there's still the potent 10k waiting for me after each sustain skills.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    It's useless, can't even understand that Malice not being lost on DJ is basically the most forgiving mechanic in the game. Because even if I avoid everything, there's still the potent 10k waiting for me after each sustain skills.

    It is useless, because you dont know anything about DE and are unwilling to admit it. Malice not being lost on DJ is not a benefit, its a hindrance. But let me explain why so you maybe can get it. Even if they have a 7 stack DJ, the damage that DJ does when hitting is less than the 3 extra Skirmishers Shot they can get off of Maleficent Seven, if their Malice resets. And thats ontop of the fact that they get a bunch of boons off of maleficent seven, that when DJ gums up Malice, they dont.

    Also, "potent 10k"? Even with max malice under maleficent seven, on a glass cannon, you dont get anywhere close to 10k. Im not even sure you can achieve 10k in WvW. Man you really dont know DE well, do you?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You keep explaining the same irrelevant trait that doesn't matter in this situation because DJ still and will hit hard no matter what the player does. If Malice is lost, it has to be regained and it can't be if attacks are avoided altogether which stops players having to sink skills for nothing because there's always DJ in the back waiting to hit. You act like the 7 Initiative bonus makes a difference in the grand scheme of ways Malice can be obtained, it doesn't, that's just putting your bets in different basket for more or less damage, Malice being lost saves people from having to avoid anymore damage and have Malice to be worked for again, you can't say you're only going to use Skirmish Shot, it doesn't make sense to waste all initiative for Malice if you're not going to hurt anyone AND lose that Malice if you fail to hit with DJ, you'll end up with no damage or initiative left.

    Maleficent Seven
    Increase the maximum malice stack count. Restore initiative and gain boons upon reaching the /maximum number of malice stacks/. (Where's your reset if you can't get it? And if you do, what's the matter you think people are gonna let you run away with it?)

    Initiative is a bonus for trading off the max reach /if/ obtained. DE would be otherwise punished for not making it happen hence the perma stealthing to get initiative back which is a whole other type of cancer. Vicious circle of "I know DJ will be avoided, but if it isn't. It'll pay off anyway so I'ma use it, 3 seconds reveal isn't a risk." which is bad design, it's forcing damage.

    (Auto attacks don't count, only weapon skills or mark.)

    • 1 malice is gained per skill that hits the marked target (not per hit of the skill) (Avoidable)
    • 1 additional malice is gained if that skill critically hits. (Avoidable)
    • These gains can only occur once per skill use. (What gives if the latter is avoidable)

    May 08, 2018

    • Malice no longer generates over time.

    I've also seen 10k DJ's in PvP before, they are far from impossible with the right setup and chaos of a game.
    https://gyazo.com/65264c06a855482e658083922d66c8d8 with Shadow Arts.
    Light Golem has 17,197 health and 2,185 armor. Which is comparable even to a heavy armor glass which I run all the time.
    https://i.imgur.com/FQmGrJ5.png with shield it's 2226 which isn't much of a difference and only effective if on that weapon set.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    You keep explaining the same irrelevant trait that doesn't matter in this situation because DJ still and will hit hard no matter what the player does. If Malice is lost, it has to be regained and it can't be if attacks are avoided altogether which stops players having to sink skills for nothing because there's always DJ in the back waiting to hit. You act like the 7 Initiative bonus makes a difference in the grand scheme of ways Malice can be obtained, it doesn't, that's just putting your bets in different basket for more or less damage, Malice being lost saves people from having to avoid anymore damage and have Malice to be worked for again, you can't say you're only going to use Skirmish Shot, it doesn't make sense to waste all initiative for Malice if you're not going to hurt anyone AND lose that Malice if you fail to hit with DJ, you'll end up with no damage or initiative left.

    It isnt irrelevant whatsoever. DJ doesnt hit hard at all without malice. And if they just evade the DJs, then the Deadeyes damage is crippled, while their access to both boons and initiative for escapes is non-existent. Thats why your suggestion is a buff. The bonus makes a huge difference. Malice being lost increases the Deadeyes damage massively. And it seems here is the clear issue. You think that you use skirmishers shot to build up malice. You dont. You use it because it, and not DJ, is your damage. You hurt people with the Skirmishers shot. The DJ is just there to clear the malice to let you keep using skirmishers shot. Thats why using DJ into the 0 damage utilities is strictly correct.

    Maleficent Seven
    Increase the maximum malice stack count. Restore initiative and gain boons upon reaching the /maximum number of malice stacks/. (Where's your reset if you can't get it? And if you do, what's the matter you think people are gonna let you run away with it?)

    You always reach max malice. Skirmishers shot is pretty difficult to avoid, and its pretty hard to distinguish from regular attacks. Then shoot a DJ without caring if it hits, and back to spamming skirmishers shot. Thats why your suggestion is a major buff.

    Initiative is a bonus for trading off the max reach /if/ obtained. DE would be otherwise punished for not making it happen hence the perma stealthing to get initiative back which is a whole other type of cancer. Vicious circle of "I know DJ will be avoided, but if it isn't. It'll pay off anyway so I'ma use it, 3 seconds reveal isn't a risk." which is bad design, it's forcing damage.

    Spoken like someone who hasnt played DE before. No, right now if you use DJ that aimlessly, you lose. You dont really have the ability to keep applying pressure, so they just dodge your DJ and turn on you and kill you. If you use initiative to escape, youre basically out of damage entirely. Its pretty bad. With your suggestion? Hell yeah Id spam DJ ASAP. I just want to get rid of the malice.

    (Auto attacks don't count, only weapon skills or mark.)

    • 1 malice is gained per skill that hits the marked target (not per hit of the skill) (Avoidable)
    • 1 additional malice is gained if that skill critically hits. (Avoidable)
    • These gains can only occur once per skill use. (What gives if the latter is avoidable)

    Yeah good luck avoiding skirmishers shot. Decent cast time, fast projectile, indistinguishable from attacks. If you can avoid it, well its not like DJ matters either, the DE is screwed at that point anyway.

    I've also seen 10k DJ's in PvP before, they are far from impossible with the right setup and chaos of a game.
    https://gyazo.com/65264c06a855482e658083922d66c8d8 with Shadow Arts.
    Light Golem has 17,197 health and 2,185 armor. Which is comparable even to a heavy armor glass which I run all the time.
    https://i.imgur.com/FQmGrJ5.png with shield it's 2226 which isn't much of a difference and only effective if on that weapon set.

    How did you stack up lead attacks without using initiative? Seriously Im just not even sure how to explain that given how little sense it makes. Nevermind that you dont even get 15 lead attack stacks normally.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rifle unfortunately cant be as viable as other weapons in pvp cuz of its weapon type and access to stealth or it would dominate.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    Reflect is your friend. Focus on evading DJ,it has a clear animation + sound and try to reflect when he spamms 2 to fill up his malice. Try to kite him back,getting slightly out of range when hes about to stealth,knowing dj will come soon after ( strafing at max range can actually make DJ miss since its a slow projectile).

    It also Really helps to play the spec yourself to see what they can or can't do. And how long it takes to fill up malice for instance.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    sir this is a spvp forum

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You want to +1, you dont really care about the ranger fighting back. Plus, if you do that, you just dont do damage. You cant even hit maleficent sevens threshold very well. Even against Rangers, its super-suboptimal.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people dont like ever acknowledge,if i lose you run a broken spec.

    If youre gonna move, you can just LoS them and peek out to fire more skirmishers shots.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You want to +1, you dont really care about the ranger fighting back. Plus, if you do that, you just dont do damage. You cant even hit maleficent sevens threshold very well. Even against Rangers, its super-suboptimal.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people dont like ever acknowledge,if i lose you run a broken spec.

    If youre gonna move, you can just LoS them and peek out to fire more skirmishers shots.

    If you do it to 1+ then it can still be a viable tool to land immobs and spamm 2 through the smoke field to apply blinds aswell.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You want to +1, you dont really care about the ranger fighting back. Plus, if you do that, you just dont do damage. You cant even hit maleficent sevens threshold very well. Even against Rangers, its super-suboptimal.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people dont like ever acknowledge,if i lose you run a broken spec.

    If youre gonna move, you can just LoS them and peek out to fire more skirmishers shots.

    If you do it to 1+ then it can still be a viable tool to land immobs and spamm 2 through the smoke field to apply blinds aswell.

    Youd rather just do actaul damage, especially with how more easily avoided the immob is due to its longer cast time.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You want to +1, you dont really care about the ranger fighting back. Plus, if you do that, you just dont do damage. You cant even hit maleficent sevens threshold very well. Even against Rangers, its super-suboptimal.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people dont like ever acknowledge,if i lose you run a broken spec.

    If youre gonna move, you can just LoS them and peek out to fire more skirmishers shots.

    If you do it to 1+ then it can still be a viable tool to land immobs and spamm 2 through the smoke field to apply blinds aswell.

    Youd rather just do actaul damage, especially with how more easily avoided the immob is due to its longer cast time.

    You still do actual damage and you keep using dj whenever malice is full anyways,the projectiles are slower for sure but you dont have to keep sitting behind it forever neither,also know when and where to place it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    zerk/scholar + crit strikes gets 10kish on the indestructable dummy. Skrim shot gives 9.4k. Using TRB 11.7k

    8794 dmg worth from 3 skrim shots, 19105 from 3 TRBs, and 9 ini/18 ini respectively.

    I was at ~half ini when firing off my DJ using TRB (and had to wait a bit to get the last TRB off). Using skrim shot is basically ini neutral if you land all three (technically speaking I think I noticed I was one ini from full at the end, but I can't be bothered to figure out when that next ini tick would be occurring to w/e).

    Skrim shot is 0.5 cast time, for a total of 1.5 sec. TRB is 1 sec cast time for a total of 3 sec.

    Worth noting that skrim shot basically looks and sounds like your AA (despite it doing double your AA damage), whereas TRB has a very obvious PTEWPTEWPTEW-thrrrpt.

    This is why making malice disappear on a missed stealth attack would be a buff. Skrim Shot does slightly lower damage (overall) than TRB, but is faster, has better secondary effects (pierce, finisher, cripple, swiftness > might).

    Skrim shot is more efficient and better overall than using TRB, and is basically ini-neutral when using M7. If malice vanishes on missed stealth attack, DE's could just keep rotating through skrim shot and stealth attacks (even if it misses) indefinitely. You WANT the thief to keep using up resources trying to land DJ - because if they can't, they can't reset their malice and go for another M7 proc, and they will most certainly run out of resources and attempts before you do - and then they're a sitting duck for any class with the slightest amount of mobility. And, heck, even if they land it - who cares? Unless you're a glass build, but hopefully nobody cares to listen when class builds complain about their damage taken.

    Crit strikes DE is a meme low gold build. Mara + shadow arts DJ at full malice hits for 6k on the indestructable dummy. Can we please move past this now.

    I am so tired, DE needs another revamp. Good god.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    zerk/scholar + crit strikes gets 10kish on the indestructable dummy. Skrim shot gives 9.4k. Using TRB 11.7k

    8794 dmg worth from 3 skrim shots, 19105 from 3 TRBs, and 9 ini/18 ini respectively.

    I was at ~half ini when firing off my DJ using TRB (and had to wait a bit to get the last TRB off). Using skrim shot is basically ini neutral if you land all three (technically speaking I think I noticed I was one ini from full at the end, but I can't be bothered to figure out when that next ini tick would be occurring to w/e).

    Skrim shot is 0.5 cast time, for a total of 1.5 sec. TRB is 1 sec cast time for a total of 3 sec.

    Worth noting that skrim shot basically looks and sounds like your AA (despite it doing double your AA damage), whereas TRB has a very obvious PTEWPTEWPTEW-thrrrpt.

    This is why making malice disappear on a missed stealth attack would be a buff. Skrim Shot does slightly lower damage (overall) than TRB, but is faster, has better secondary effects (pierce, finisher, cripple, swiftness > might).

    Skrim shot is more efficient and better overall than using TRB, and is basically ini-neutral when using M7. If malice vanishes on missed stealth attack, DE's could just keep rotating through skrim shot and stealth attacks (even if it misses) indefinitely. You WANT the thief to keep using up resources trying to land DJ - because if they can't, they can't reset their malice and go for another M7 proc, and they will most certainly run out of resources and attempts before you do - and then they're a sitting duck for any class with the slightest amount of mobility. And, heck, even if they land it - who cares? Unless you're a glass build, but hopefully nobody cares to listen when class builds complain about their damage taken.

    Crit strikes DE is a meme low gold build. Mara + shadow arts DJ at full malice hits for 6k on the indestructable dummy. Can we please move past this now.

    I am so tired, DE needs another revamp. Good god.

    Whether DJ is efficient or not, it's still free damage that cost nothing and having Malice maxed out allows for it to be this free damage that people can stick to stealth with no risk. To say that the 3 seconds Reveal is a drawback is laughable. At least when people spam Skirmish Shot, they are exposed and forced to be engaged.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    Oh I briefly mentioned the non-conquest perspective. Let me refresh your memory. "Deadeye is terrible in 1v1s". Thats all there is to it. Its awful in wvw, its awful in PvP duels (hence why 1v1 tournaments didnt see Deadeyes). It loses to just about everything, and has no winning matchups. Even Condi Mirage, usually an easy matchup, becomes impossible.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/wvw here you go.

    Imgur

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/wvw here you go.

    Imgur

    Saying that like there's no open nodes with bad LoS at all with exploitable locations, sure why not. This whole entire thing wouldn't even have place if rifle skills actually made sense for what they are supposed to do.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    Oh I briefly mentioned the non-conquest perspective. Let me refresh your memory. "Deadeye is terrible in 1v1s". Thats all there is to it. Its awful in wvw, its awful in PvP duels (hence why 1v1 tournaments didnt see Deadeyes). It loses to just about everything, and has no winning matchups. Even Condi Mirage, usually an easy matchup, becomes impossible.

    Actually it's amazing in wvw as it is in 1on1 depending on what you fight offc,so is the same for every other spec. In wvw i only die because i overextend but 1on1 i also have no issue besides a certain few that know how to counter a de. There's also something to consider as player skill,some people play things better as others do.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    Oh I briefly mentioned the non-conquest perspective. Let me refresh your memory. "Deadeye is terrible in 1v1s". Thats all there is to it. Its awful in wvw, its awful in PvP duels (hence why 1v1 tournaments didnt see Deadeyes). It loses to just about everything, and has no winning matchups. Even Condi Mirage, usually an easy matchup, becomes impossible.

    Actually it's amazing in wvw as it is in 1on1 depending on what you fight offc,so is the same for every other spec. In wvw i only die because i overextend but 1on1 i also have no issue besides a certain few that know how to counter a de. There's also something to consider as player skill,some people play things better as others do.

    I mean youre a thief, you can escape usually. But you dont kill any half-decent player. Its trivially easy to shut down a DE.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    Perhaps DJ should not be balanced around...I assume this is a bug of some sort?

    Either way even w/out the sound the attack is blatantly trivial to mitigate. DE doesn't exactly have much room for skills that lock other players down. Stealth/Kneel -> Kneeling rifle2 -> DJ only works at a certain distance, IIRC, and that makes the skill even MORE predictable. Oh goodness gracious the DE went into stealth after hitting me a couple times what could they possibly be up to :O

    Switching out a pretty meh trait for unblockable would be a decent tradeoff.

    We all know they are up to use DJ, but it's not like there's any punishment for using it? Just try again over and over until your target runs out of sustain.

    ...the loss of stealth? Reveal? DJ auto reveals even if it misses - and DE has far less sources of stealth than opponents have ways to mitigate the strike. I mean sure you CAN stand there and spam stealth and /or your reveal cleanse, if you really want to try and land your nerfed-to-hell-ranged-backstab, but that's a really foolish move. Getting hit by DJ is far from the end of the world due to how low the damage is, too.

    Whoo 3 seconds of reveal, like that means anything when they are 1400~ units away which only 1 classes can reliable riposte back and the other called warrior killshot taking forever to cast. Technically be fun to deal more damage in the least of risky ways after getting blinded also from their small smoke wall that you can see if you're looking at the right direction. Except it can happen even more often than a backstab because backstab actually reveals for a moment and doesn't happen always out of range where there's absolutely no risk at all. Key problem being the repeat of DJ at full Malice and it doesn't matter how much you avoid it because it's always gonna happen again and again.

    Theyre not kneeling. Kneeling is awful and means theyre doing no damage and arent a threat at all. Jeez why do you keep going when its clear you dont know the class? Also you think only 1 class can reliably fight back against someone who is only 1400 units away? Ignoring that Ranger way outranges that, any mobile class can quickly catch up.

    I'm gonna keep teasing you into thinking that I don't know your playstyle and nobody plays it, but funnily enough I'd rather be dealing with that than the toxicity of perma stealth blind fest, you'd obviously die to me if you weren't trying to block my only projectile anyway unlike the other person that actually did it. Implying that spamming Skirmisher shot would get you anywhere when I have all the tools to deal with that straight forward only hypothetical amount of situations, but not a single class can reliable go back and forth but it's own unfairly designed self.

    Youre not "teasing me into thinking" that, youre just making clear that you indeed dont know the DE playstyle. Im not even actively playing and I know it. And Deadeye is a +1 class. You dont care about "blocking their projectile" when youre just slapping on some more damage. Spamming skirmishers shot is in fact the optimal playstyle. If you can deal with Skirmishers shot, you can deal with any DE. It doesnt matter.

    Because in this game there's always and only specific skills to be used while everything else is useless.. Right. Coming from you who said 10k is impossible. There's a lot of facets you clearly don't know about. You can go back at spamming cripple and swiftness without a reasonable cap whilst most have it. Implying that you wouldn't have to resort to anything at all the rifle has for sustain because clearly you'd be able to loop with Maleficent Seven perfectly and reliably, none of the crit chance or outside factors to interrupt that cycle, let alone the exposure spamming requires.

    In the case of thief, yes, that is how it tends to work. Initiative means you only want to use the most crucial skills. So you do. Kneeling isnt used because it makes you immobile, replaces your skills by worse ones, and provides nothing of relevancy. Double Tap isnt used because, well, its worse. Deaths Retreat is used rarely, too costly. Also "spamming cripple and swiftness". Are you just trying to obscure the fact that, due to not knowing how the class works, you didnt realise that skirmishers shot is the vast majority of Deadeyes damage? You spam it because its the most damage. And yes, you are able to loop with maleficent seven perfectly and reliably. You have leeway that allows you to miss one or two, and of course, since its fast and looks the same as a regular attack, theyre not gonna be able to dodge for it specifically. And again, youre a +1 class.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    Whatever you say about DE comes from a complete lack of knowledge, so whatever that sentence is supposed to mean (I have no idea, it reads like gibberish to me) is almost certainly wrong.

    You're so out of touch with this topic that nothing you reply with makes sense, when did I say blocking DE projectiles. I said my OWN and only projectile that is NOT related to DE whatsoever but to hit the DE with is easily denied by various factors. Keep implying I know nothing. Have this call Skirmish Shot spam that nobody ever plays because apparently that works in practice and I'm sure it wouldn't hold for any long than a minute. Those I've been facing actually use /all/ utility optimally to the point of being untouchable as a whole via proper stealth camping added blinds with projectile denial access and positioning where even LoS can't save you, just tossing that DJ out there casually over and over among other things. You are so oblivious to the conversation that there's no reasoning to be done, such is Malice and it's following traits being a /balanced/ mechanic with the skills, yes because if nobody plays it, It's not OP, Conquest is all that matters even if a class is down right broken in 1v1 it doesn't matter.

    You may want to improve your reading comprehension. I also talked about the DE blocking your projectile, not vice versa. And how DE doesnt actually do it, because smokescreen requires kneeling, and kneeling sucks. I dont imply it, I just point that fact out. You do in fact know nothing. And yes, Skirmish shot spam does work in practice, and thats how every half-decent DE plays it. Its cure that you think DEs dont do it. And no, if they didnt do that, then those youve been facing have been playing the class extremely suboptimally. If you think theyre "untouchable", then Im sorry, but youre just not good enough to punish them. But let me reiterate. Kneeling is trash, and you dont use it. Deaths Cover is bad, because it costs a lot, doesnt provide much, and doesnt save you against a half-decent enemy.

    The only one oblivious is you. Because you think you know DE, while not even knowing the most basics fundamentals. Also wait, you actually think DE is "down right broken in a 1v1"? Thats actually ... incredible. A class thats not even good enough in +1s is one you think is "broken in a 1v1". Remind me, in the couple of 1v1 tournaments people have tried so far, how many Deadeyes were used? Wasnt it close to 0?

    Yes kneeling sucks but i use Snipers cover myself quite often,especially vs rangers. You can throw it up and spamm 2 for immob to fill malice and spike after,if he closes in or has resist up you can Shadow step while being kneeled and rinse repeat. It Does help negating most projectile spikes,but a reflected projectile will still go through Snipers cover.

    You can also just kneel once to throw snipers cover and get up while staying behind it though. But we are definetely Not untouchable,most people just dont know how to counter while some clearly do know how to, Thats the difference. Theres also a thing as simply being outplayed which most people wont ever acknowledge because if i lose you run a broken spec.

    Thief in general can be untouchable if it wants to and never lose, I ain't complaining about it. Here I am complaining about this poor design with Malice that forces damage into players even if they avoid it a thousand times WITH the added fact of being untouchable and able to not lose with mere stealth. It's not good and should not be called good.

    Sure, go ahead. Make it so malice is lost when DJ misses. Just remember, its a buff, not a nerf. Dont come back crying when you realise what a grave mistake you made.

    Keep acting like I have no idea then. I haven't said anything at all about it. There's many things to be done but this one is the most important, After making Reveal last just as long as any other skills. I'm fairly certain that you won't be safe or have the tools to deal with the current meta even if you could indefinitely spam and if that's a problem, they can fix the co-efficients in a PvP split anyways, Unload WORKS like that anyway given you /hit/ all shots. You'll in fact be happy to get that initiative back because you'll need it to escape anything coming after you.

    I dont "act" like it. You indeed have no idea. Everything you have said about DE has been so categorically wrong that Im not even 100% sure you arent trolling. Also Reveal out of stealth always lasts the same amount, thats how it works. And yeah DE isnt gonna be good even after the buff, but people who struggle against it (Read: you, apparently) will struggle far moreso than before.

    Like I said; This elite is well designed and without any loopholes or skills that overshadow each other in the requisite of having the most toxic playstyle with the most rewarding traits and mechanics of the game.

    DE could be better designed but they aren't bothered to even address how abusive stealth is in the first place. DJ should have always been the main attraction of this class, not the second basic skill.

    It could be. But you have a strange idea of what the issues are. Spoiler: its not stealth, and its not DJ. Its the fact that kneeling is useless, and that thief as a class not allowed to be good in 1v1s has no reason to lose mobility in favour of range for +1s.

    You constantly speak from a conquest perspective, never you'll get the point. You can perma stealth away now.

    Oh I briefly mentioned the non-conquest perspective. Let me refresh your memory. "Deadeye is terrible in 1v1s". Thats all there is to it. Its awful in wvw, its awful in PvP duels (hence why 1v1 tournaments didnt see Deadeyes). It loses to just about everything, and has no winning matchups. Even Condi Mirage, usually an easy matchup, becomes impossible.

    Actually it's amazing in wvw as it is in 1on1 depending on what you fight offc,so is the same for every other spec. In wvw i only die because i overextend but 1on1 i also have no issue besides a certain few that know how to counter a de. There's also something to consider as player skill,some people play things better as others do.

    I mean youre a thief, you can escape usually. But you dont kill any half-decent player. Its trivially easy to shut down a DE.

    I do kill any half decent player.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is one point everyone is missing though, the sniper class does not aim, it is fully tab target point and click adventure and Deadeye is really RP class. That is why no one likes ranged in this game, you can make people miss some of their melee attacks just by using movement keys with no additional skills or environment but with ranged you get hit anyway.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    There is one point everyone is missing though, the sniper class does not aim, it is fully tab target point and click adventure and Deadeye is really RP class. That is why no one likes ranged in this game, you can make people miss some of their melee attacks just by using movement keys with no additional skills or environment but with ranged you get hit anyway.

    I would love to have an mmo where ranged has to aim their shots and melee has to decide what direction their swings are in and they can be parried by a tiny dagger if the dagger user is good nuff but that's not the world we live in.

    'You can make people miss melee just by using movement keys' - I'll take what is LoS for 500$ please

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    There is one point everyone is missing though, the sniper class does not aim, it is fully tab target point and click adventure and Deadeye is really RP class. That is why no one likes ranged in this game, you can make people miss some of their melee attacks just by using movement keys with no additional skills or environment but with ranged you get hit anyway.

    I would love to have an mmo where ranged has to aim their shots and melee has to decide what direction their swings are in and they can be parried by a tiny dagger if the dagger user is good nuff but that's not the world we live in.

    'You can make people miss melee just by using movement keys' - I'll take what is LoS for 500$ please

    You can use LoS and elevations on Melee so no dice here. That is why i said it like that, you can kite melee using the the map(except teleports but that is another can of worms) . Also i have to aim way more on melee classes for some reason grave diggers, death spiral, arcing slice, eviscerate, maul. Having to use more predictive movement on melee and not at all on ranged seems dumb to me, and it is not like it can't be made there are several ranged skills that are skill shots but they are underused.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Deadeye needs to be relegated to +1. If its kit allows it to approach 1v1 potential with the kind of damage modifiers and stealth access thief has built into its core, we're going to have major issues.

    Thats the thing though, its not even good at +1ing. Way too easy to shut down.

    Leave it where it is. DE is not hard to play. An easy, high damage spec that can contest you from 1500r away and doesn't have to commit to any fight shouldn't be encouraged by being anywhere close to standalone.

    1200 range. Deadeye has 1200 range. Kneeling is actively detrimental, so you never kneel. And actually, they would have to commit to a fight, since they have to use initiative to stack up malice, meaning their escape is locked out.

    I main a DE and honestly my sustain is high. On average, I die none or 1 time each match, and usually score between 12-20 kills. You need to learn to time your skill rotate between stealth, dodge, and burst with skill 2. I agree kneeling is a waste of skill slot, but the skillset is simple enough to get kills. I agree with others that it's just not a node holder. You can win 1v1s fairly easily against most builds if played correctly, but the time you spend to win a 1v1, you probably won't have gained much if you're trying to contest a node.

    If you're not on a good team composition, then you will find yourself in outnumbered situations where you will die. So try to stick to teamfights and pick off squishy targets. If you see them casting barriers or protects, stealth and wait until wears off, then hit again. Gotta time.

    For burst, I like to use to BQoBD. It synergizes well with Mercy -- after bursting with skill 2 spam, I cast mercy and recast DE mark to trigger the quickness again. I've taken down tons of players this way.

    DE is fine,, and super easy, it's other classes that need nerfing (i.e. Power Revs and Soulbeasts).

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raven.5362 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Deadeye needs to be relegated to +1. If its kit allows it to approach 1v1 potential with the kind of damage modifiers and stealth access thief has built into its core, we're going to have major issues.

    Thats the thing though, its not even good at +1ing. Way too easy to shut down.

    Leave it where it is. DE is not hard to play. An easy, high damage spec that can contest you from 1500r away and doesn't have to commit to any fight shouldn't be encouraged by being anywhere close to standalone.

    1200 range. Deadeye has 1200 range. Kneeling is actively detrimental, so you never kneel. And actually, they would have to commit to a fight, since they have to use initiative to stack up malice, meaning their escape is locked out.

    I main a DE and honestly my sustain is high. On average, I die none or 1 time each match, and usually score between 12-20 kills. You need to learn to time your skill rotate between stealth, dodge, and burst with skill 2. I agree kneeling is a waste of skill slot, but the skillset is simple enough to get kills. I agree with others that it's just not a node holder. You can win 1v1s fairly easily against most builds if played correctly, but the time you spend to win a 1v1, you probably won't have gained much if you're trying to contest a node.

    Yeah Im gonna go out on a limb and just say that your enemies are really bad then. Not dying is, well, if you run whenever youre in danger, its plausible, if their roamer is bad. 12-20 kills however? Yeah, you shouldnt even get a fraction of those as DE. I mean, hell, regular thief doesnt even get that many. And there should be no 1v1 you can win. Only ones you can not lose.

    If you're not on a good team composition, then you will find yourself in outnumbered situations where you will die. So try to stick to teamfights and pick off squishy targets. If you see them casting barriers or protects, stealth and wait until wears off, then hit again. Gotta time.

    In teamfights you just get focused down by half-decent players and get exploded. Or they just nullify your entire damage through projectile denial.

    For burst, I like to use to BQoBD. It synergizes well with Mercy -- after bursting with skill 2 spam, I cast mercy and recast DE mark to trigger the quickness again. I've taken down tons of players this way.

    Not picking maleficent 7 gimps you. You rely too much on mercy to keep up damage, and after 2 burst rounds, youre basically out of ammo. If the enemy survived those, youre just screwed, and chances are they will survive them.

    DE is fine,, and super easy, it's other classes that need nerfing (i.e. Power Revs and Soulbeasts).

    DE is trash, as it has always been. Youd need to nerf everything else for a long time before DE stops being trash.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Raven.5362 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Deadeye needs to be relegated to +1. If its kit allows it to approach 1v1 potential with the kind of damage modifiers and stealth access thief has built into its core, we're going to have major issues.

    Thats the thing though, its not even good at +1ing. Way too easy to shut down.

    Leave it where it is. DE is not hard to play. An easy, high damage spec that can contest you from 1500r away and doesn't have to commit to any fight shouldn't be encouraged by being anywhere close to standalone.

    1200 range. Deadeye has 1200 range. Kneeling is actively detrimental, so you never kneel. And actually, they would have to commit to a fight, since they have to use initiative to stack up malice, meaning their escape is locked out.

    I main a DE and honestly my sustain is high. On average, I die none or 1 time each match, and usually score between 12-20 kills. You need to learn to time your skill rotate between stealth, dodge, and burst with skill 2. I agree kneeling is a waste of skill slot, but the skillset is simple enough to get kills. I agree with others that it's just not a node holder. You can win 1v1s fairly easily against most builds if played correctly, but the time you spend to win a 1v1, you probably won't have gained much if you're trying to contest a node.

    Yeah Im gonna go out on a limb and just say that your enemies are really bad then. Not dying is, well, if you run whenever youre in danger, its plausible, if their roamer is bad. 12-20 kills however? Yeah, you shouldnt even get a fraction of those as DE. I mean, hell, regular thief doesnt even get that many. And there should be no 1v1 you can win. Only ones you can not lose.

    If you're not on a good team composition, then you will find yourself in outnumbered situations where you will die. So try to stick to teamfights and pick off squishy targets. If you see them casting barriers or protects, stealth and wait until wears off, then hit again. Gotta time.

    In teamfights you just get focused down by half-decent players and get exploded. Or they just nullify your entire damage through projectile denial.

    For burst, I like to use to BQoBD. It synergizes well with Mercy -- after bursting with skill 2 spam, I cast mercy and recast DE mark to trigger the quickness again. I've taken down tons of players this way.

    Not picking maleficent 7 gimps you. You rely too much on mercy to keep up damage, and after 2 burst rounds, youre basically out of ammo. If the enemy survived those, youre just screwed, and chances are they will survive them.

    DE is fine,, and super easy, it's other classes that need nerfing (i.e. Power Revs and Soulbeasts).

    DE is trash, as it has always been. Youd need to nerf everything else for a long time before DE stops being trash.

    Okay then, well I like my DE, I know I play well against pretty decent players, I know I'm not the best so every once in awhile I get outmatched, I'm not legendary but I know it's the game. I think DE is just fine.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even good in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

    Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

    The sick em thing is kinda broken cause of the modifiers and maybe cause all skills on the LB look the same, but it is still boots on the ground speck and the stealth access is not great personal opinion i think the block on GS makes them too strong since it is hard to contest them in melee while they are supposed to be ranged.
    But the main difference i think it is that the ranger is easier kill then DE, easier to predict what the ranger would do and single person can pressure them off, while DE needs teamwork to shut down. Most likely that is why DE is not that popular in ATs but it can be considered really pub stompy in ranked.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

    The sick em thing is kinda broken cause of the modifiers and maybe cause all skills on the LB look the same, but it is still boots on the ground speck and the stealth access is not great personal opinion i think the block on GS makes them too strong since it is hard to contest them in melee while they are supposed to be ranged.

    Oh it does more damage without Sic Em too. Sic Em just lets them up their burst. Stealth access isnt great, but stealth itself isnt great, and DE, when played properly, ignores it as much as it can. Its however not immobile, especially not as Soulbeast, who can get dashes while in longbow from its beast form.

    But the main difference i think it is that the ranger is easier kill then DE, easier to predict what the ranger would do and single person can pressure them off, while DE needs teamwork to shut down. Most likely that is why DE is not that popular in ATs but it can be considered really pub stompy in ranked.

    Yeah, except the opposite is true. DE is far easier to kill than Ranger, since its got 33% lower range, far lower base stats, lower healing, passive defenses and active defenses, and requires to not have used up initiative to be able to escape (while also no longer being a threat for 9 seconds after escaping). DE also doesnt need teamwork to shut down, a single player is enough. Sometimes DE gets shut down without anyone actively trying to, thanks to projectile denial. DE is just not popular in general because it sucks. It needs bad enemies to function.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

    The sick em thing is kinda broken cause of the modifiers and maybe cause all skills on the LB look the same, but it is still boots on the ground speck and the stealth access is not great personal opinion i think the block on GS makes them too strong since it is hard to contest them in melee while they are supposed to be ranged.

    Oh it does more damage without Sic Em too. Sic Em just lets them up their burst. Stealth access isnt great, but stealth itself isnt great, and DE, when played properly, ignores it as much as it can. Its however not immobile, especially not as Soulbeast, who can get dashes while in longbow from its beast form.

    But the main difference i think it is that the ranger is easier kill then DE, easier to predict what the ranger would do and single person can pressure them off, while DE needs teamwork to shut down. Most likely that is why DE is not that popular in ATs but it can be considered really pub stompy in ranked.

    Yeah, except the opposite is true. DE is far easier to kill than Ranger, since its got 33% lower range, far lower base stats, lower healing, passive defenses and active defenses, and requires to not have used up initiative to be able to escape (while also no longer being a threat for 9 seconds after escaping). DE also doesnt need teamwork to shut down, a single player is enough. Sometimes DE gets shut down without anyone actively trying to, thanks to projectile denial. DE is just not popular in general because it sucks. It needs bad enemies to function.

    Well both specks are not that popular since both are counter by the same specks, power rev and the big one any other thief build. So DE has the bigger downside on the matchmaker by having to deal with the other thief builds, cause it is certain that it would be "mirrored".
    PS: You are really right about the shortbow 5, as long as it is like that thief will not be able to have different playstyle, same as warrior being stuck with discipline and sidenodes and necro that is forever teamfighter. Thief is in the forever stuck class group.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

    The sick em thing is kinda broken cause of the modifiers and maybe cause all skills on the LB look the same, but it is still boots on the ground speck and the stealth access is not great personal opinion i think the block on GS makes them too strong since it is hard to contest them in melee while they are supposed to be ranged.

    Oh it does more damage without Sic Em too. Sic Em just lets them up their burst. Stealth access isnt great, but stealth itself isnt great, and DE, when played properly, ignores it as much as it can. Its however not immobile, especially not as Soulbeast, who can get dashes while in longbow from its beast form.

    But the main difference i think it is that the ranger is easier kill then DE, easier to predict what the ranger would do and single person can pressure them off, while DE needs teamwork to shut down. Most likely that is why DE is not that popular in ATs but it can be considered really pub stompy in ranked.

    Yeah, except the opposite is true. DE is far easier to kill than Ranger, since its got 33% lower range, far lower base stats, lower healing, passive defenses and active defenses, and requires to not have used up initiative to be able to escape (while also no longer being a threat for 9 seconds after escaping). DE also doesnt need teamwork to shut down, a single player is enough. Sometimes DE gets shut down without anyone actively trying to, thanks to projectile denial. DE is just not popular in general because it sucks. It needs bad enemies to function.

    Well both specks are not that popular since both are counter by the same specks, power rev and the big one any other thief build. So DE has the bigger downside on the matchmaker by having to deal with the other thief builds, cause it is certain that it would be "mirrored".

    Yup. Though at least Ranger has power Ranger. DE doesnt have any viable version, its just kinda dead.

    PS: You are really right about the shortbow 5, as long as it is like that thief will not be able to have different playstyle, same as warrior being stuck with discipline and sidenodes and necro that is forever teamfighter. Thief is in the forever stuck class group.

    Basically. Doubt itll ever change either, theyre not gonna remove shortbow 5.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    There is also that it is the only class that has long range hard hitting weapon and teleports, how do you even balance that. The mechanics are way too good to work together so we end up in a situation where it has to be hard countered or it is a loss.
    I don't think DE can be buffed, it can only be reworked, and they did one already and no one liked it DE players or the opponents, it is not that great to use but is not great to be on the receiving end of it either. How did they manage to make it unfun for everyone i don't know.

    I mean, Ranger has more range (almost 50% more in fact), hits way harder (DE Rifle is not "hard hitting" by any means.), and rangers dashes beats DEs teleports while fighting at range (especially because DE doesnt even use their teleport because its pretty bad most of the time).

    The sick em thing is kinda broken cause of the modifiers and maybe cause all skills on the LB look the same, but it is still boots on the ground speck and the stealth access is not great personal opinion i think the block on GS makes them too strong since it is hard to contest them in melee while they are supposed to be ranged.

    Oh it does more damage without Sic Em too. Sic Em just lets them up their burst. Stealth access isnt great, but stealth itself isnt great, and DE, when played properly, ignores it as much as it can. Its however not immobile, especially not as Soulbeast, who can get dashes while in longbow from its beast form.

    But the main difference i think it is that the ranger is easier kill then DE, easier to predict what the ranger would do and single person can pressure them off, while DE needs teamwork to shut down. Most likely that is why DE is not that popular in ATs but it can be considered really pub stompy in ranked.

    Yeah, except the opposite is true. DE is far easier to kill than Ranger, since its got 33% lower range, far lower base stats, lower healing, passive defenses and active defenses, and requires to not have used up initiative to be able to escape (while also no longer being a threat for 9 seconds after escaping). DE also doesnt need teamwork to shut down, a single player is enough. Sometimes DE gets shut down without anyone actively trying to, thanks to projectile denial. DE is just not popular in general because it sucks. It needs bad enemies to function.

    Well both specks are not that popular since both are counter by the same specks, power rev and the big one any other thief build. So DE has the bigger downside on the matchmaker by having to deal with the other thief builds, cause it is certain that it would be "mirrored".

    Yup. Though at least Ranger has power Ranger. DE doesnt have any viable version, its just kinda dead.

    PS: You are really right about the shortbow 5, as long as it is like that thief will not be able to have different playstyle, same as warrior being stuck with discipline and sidenodes and necro that is forever teamfighter. Thief is in the forever stuck class group.

    Basically. Doubt itll ever change either, theyre not gonna remove shortbow 5.

    Well i wished my Berserker was even a B tier build, but that kitten has been benched from 2017, i do try to make it a thing from time time in unranked but its just not good even there. So yeah some specks are just benched forever and it is even worse if the other builds of the class counter them, like spellbreaker fully shuts down berserker.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even good in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

    Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

    Stealth in combat is fantastic in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who don't pay attention to their opponents cooldowns during duels.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The problem with Rifle is that it's balanced around stealth, which in GW2 is mechanically broken. Thus all Rifle skills have been made intentionally bad to balance around stealth, as they refuse to rework the bad mechanic.

    This means if you want to play Rifle in PvP, you basically have no choice but to run the stealth-spam version of the build as all other versions are trash.

    Actually, its not balanced around stealth at all. And in-combat stealth isnt even good in GW2. The skills are bad because its thief, and still has access to shortbow 5. And as long as thief has shortbow 5, he simply isnt allowed to ever be able to win 1v1s. Only decap and +1. And for +1ing range is less relevant than in-combat mobility, and with LoS-ing and projectile denial, at times being ranged is an outright detriment.

    Also, the stealth spam version is the one thats trash. The correct version is ignoring stealth alltogether (dropping it as soon as you can, and not running SA), and just go for 2 spam with maleficent 7.

    Stealth in combat is fantastic in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who don't pay attention to their opponents cooldowns during duels.

    Stealth in combat is awful in GW2. The idea that it isn't is a myth perpetuated by people who fail the incredibly easy task of punishing someone for trying to stealth mid-combat. Seriously, try using stealth mid-combat as a thief against a good Ranger or Engineer or Rev, and you will find that they just kill you for trying to stealth up.