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Downstate - To Change or Not To Change...yeah that's the question

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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    just delete it kitten, makes sense in PvE to keep bad players alive, it's so bad in competitive play environments as the stronger side always have a competitive advantage instead of a comeback mechanic for the weaker side

    it's not uncommon in zerg fights you see the stronger side absolutely decimate the weaker side with 0 loss because they just kept on rallying from the kills

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  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    just delete it kitten, makes sense in PvE to keep bad players alive, it's so bad in competitive play environments as the stronger side always have a competitive advantage instead of a comeback mechanic for the weaker side

    it's not uncommon in zerg fights you see the stronger side absolutely decimate the weaker side with 0 loss because they just kept on rallying from the kills

    But I think this could addressed without outright deleting as well. To others points there might be ways to tune this to better balance out the size differences. Outright deleting would be potentially the easiest but might not make for the best gameplay change. I think we all want interesting fights, but some feel that size alone shouldn't be the biggest factor, we also don't want to dumb down the gameplay unless better balance can't be reached.

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    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
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  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    Downed state is a clutch mechanic which carries bad players and big numbers over skill.

    Skill should NOT be a desirable factor in the game though. For too long, twitchy players have advocated changing the game to suit them. We're in a state now where general players are alienated, unwelcome in the mode and that's not healthy for it. No wonder populations are dwindling.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • ledernierrempart.6871ledernierrempart.6871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2020

    ■ deleted auto attack from downedstate. tweak the 2 and 3 skill on some class to compensate (poison well vampirizing life for necro, invisibility dealing some poison for thieves, etc). now you can't have some class DPS you like crazy while downed. in 1v2 the solo one will get less BS pressure from the downed. (and maybe make downed immune to blind)
    ■ tone down HP gain from stats. make so have more vitality only give you a very tiny percentage of bonus health instead of the current bonus. so all downed state hp pool are kinda normalized. (so that you still get something from your state but so little that every one nearly feel like they have the same HP pool)
    ■ disable rally completely. let people revive you. (on par with massive bonus on revive while out of combat and no auto attack while downed. a bus gets a downed? they now have to chose to help him or attack the enemy. small scale groups will now not fear of helping enemy downed by losing their own.)
    ■ bring back celerity speedy finisher. (best deal you could have for those who want quick ways to stomp)
    ■ give a massive bonus to revive when the downed is out of combat. (so that rangers would only get a better deal with pet regen when in combat.)

  • @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    Yes, its is another dreaded poll, queue music. Dun dun DUNNNN!

    So to keep it simple, let's take a look at where people are today but keep it kind of broad since there are a lot of options on one side and not much on the other. Should downstate be kept as is with no changes. Or changed in some fashion. Forums are a small percentage of players but since references are made to older polls and a number of people didn't want to distract from Alliances but it seems clear it won't anyway so...where are people at with their thoughts? Appreciate your time and opinion. Good gaming!

    My problem has never been enemies getting into downstate, but myself. /gg is great, but implement that into the entire game so we won't have to tab out when it's pointless to keep fighting.

  • @ledernierrempart.6871 said:
    ■ give a massive bonus to revive when the downed is out of combat. (so that rangers would only get a better deal with pet regen when in combat.)

    I find it strange that WvW revivals don't award WXP. I mean, you get WXP for repairing a wall, or even failing to defend a sentry.

  • we need to remove the downstate or have it a high cd.

  • Mikhael.2391Mikhael.2391 Member ✭✭✭

    Remove it.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    Got to love that people just pick up replying, as if this isnt a 5 month threadnecro that should have stayed buried.

    It was also an awful poll that dumped everything - especially conflicting ideas - into one forced choice and its still an awful poll now.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
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    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Got to love that people just pick up replying, as if this isnt a 5 month threadnecro that should have stayed buried.

    It was also an awful poll that dumped everything - especially conflicting ideas - into one forced choice and its still an awful poll now.

    Well i mean its either that or make another thread. I think general consensus from the community is that downstate needs changing in some way. I have no doubt that anet will surely respond to a downstate thread soon giving the community of WvW an update of their plans for it in the future. Surely followed by a quick and speedy patch with some juicy and unexpected WvW content.

  • They should remove all downed skills except the self heal. And the self heal should be pretty standard for all classes. Not this "my pet is a doctor" thing that we have now. XD

    Live and let live I say.

  • Gwaihir.1745Gwaihir.1745 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems like its still a relevant issue.

    1. No rallies off of player kills. This is literally why every meta snowballs.
    2. Limit downstate skills to basic attack and basic heal. You already lost your fight, no need for you to still be a key player. Relegate them to the sidelines.

    Or, accept that it's 2021 now and this no longer fits in gw2, and remove it.

    Shield of Wrath: Reduced the cooldown of this skill from 36 seconds to 35 seconds.

    Quality balance changes^TM

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No downstate event.... but permanently

  • Get rid of it that way insta res will be gone and the only way to res is to hard res when not in combat

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    since i played much more FB lately... it would be nice if full dead were NOT rez-able.

    people swarm out like mosquitos and go then "rez plies" ... downstate is okay. it's a tactical mistake to not cleave downed any way. sign of misunderstanding tactical movement.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    since i played much more FB lately... it would be nice if full dead were NOT rez-able.

    people swarm out like mosquitos and go then "rez plies" ... downstate is okay. it's a tactical mistake to not cleave downed any way. sign of misunderstanding tactical movement.

    This serves zero purpose other than delay further fights after you lost some people, most often in a situation where you are already at a disadvantage.

    Being able to res someone fully dead has never been an issue in WvW.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i think it is worse than downstate.

    people with less experience tend to revive those asking, and get jumped during that. u see a big amount of people who just lay dead for quite some time, they could have respawned several times in that time many times. kinda benefits beeing careless.

    in serious numbered fights, downstate is less issue, bc in a big bomb u just die within seconds if not either the healers are woke, you dodge or pop all own upkeep in time. the downstate on normal classes is just not broken at all. the rallying is no real issue.

  • @Ubi.4136 said:
    It just needs to be removed.

    If you eliminate this mode, you will alienate a lot of players who like small details like downstate in this game. This is one of the features that distinguishes this product and we currently have a large selection on the mmo market.
    The player base is already small, why aggravate this condition?

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    If you are in an area range of 600 of a downed state ally you receive a -50% reduction to all stats.

    Yes, please allow me to strip all my armor and walk into GvG fights.

    Some ideas are good, but others are just so brilliant they outshine the sun.

    It won't stack. If there is a downed ally on the map and you go in a 600 range to him (probably to ress him) you receive a debuff of 50% to all stats, so you decide if it's worth to commit for the ress if nobody is around or let him bleed to death.

    As I said, if you get downed it's because you got focused, or you are bad or bad positioning or whatever happened.
    You shouldn't randomly rally just because you tagged someone, or you shouldn't be ress in half a second just because 25 people commit to ress you, that's why cap the ress speed to 1 person only, only 1 person can ress.

    And I didn't say remove downed state completely because it's a core mechanic of the game, but in its current state it just carries big numbers over skill and so should be toned down and adjusted.

    Nothing in here change the fact that aside from normal rallying, this could easily be used to grief guilds by running in and debuffing everyone stacked within 600 radius by intentionally going down. I also recommend using an ele or a thief so that if the guild moves, you can just teleport into them.

    Oh and you could also use a blood necro to teleport in downed people into the guild.

    If you're fighting in a tight space, e.g. on the lord, or the fight keeps circling around the same area, many people in the squad are going to be affected by this. As the fight moves around, and more people are downed, there is going to be a large area where the players in the squad are affected. It would also over-penalise the smaller group because the larger group is still going to get their downs up. For the smaller group, the penalty will be too severe.

    I agree with the suggestion earlier in the thread that downstate health pools should be standardised. I also think downstate skills should be standardised.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    Honestly I'm perfectly happy with the no-down-state weeks. Hopefully we can get them more regularly; perhaps once every two months.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Down state in it's self is not a problem and it's gives a uniqueness to the game . What is the problem are the skills that give some classes advantages over others when in the downed state . Any skill that causes a downed player to move quickly away from the point the downed state occurred needs to be removed . Replace with a very slow crawl. .Any downed skill that causes a non downed player to be pushed , pulled , launched , feared must be removed . Base healing and recovery in the downed state must be equal between classes .
    Increase speed of stomp .Add stomp or similar action for under water.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sarrs.4831 said:
    Honestly I'm perfectly happy with the no-down-state weeks. Hopefully we can get them more regularly; perhaps once every two months.

    That would be pretty good. 7 days out of 56 where I would log in and play all day before logging out before waiting another 2 months.